Losing and regaining the passion...
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Jaded? Yes. There are times I just want to switch a totally different profession, but I have been ddoing this for so long everything else I was profficient in (chemistry, mathematics, statistics) I am no longer up-to-date. For several years I have had a yen to learn bartending - when I retire and move to the Dominican Republic (my wife was born there), I will open a bar on the beach. I may be looking for bouncers, live music acts and patrons :-D
A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, navigate a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects! - Lazarus Long
stoneyowl2 wrote:
I may be looking for bouncers, live music acts and patrons
How much are you paying us to be patrons? I might apply...
Bad command or file name. Bad, bad command! Sit! Stay! Staaaay... AntiTwitter: @DalekDave is now a follower!
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I have a question for the old timers. The youngins won't understand this unless they've lived a pass life they recall. Anyway, y'all ever get jaded with the technology industry? Just sick and tired of it all? The buzz words. The fact 99% of the industry is BS. PHBs. The acronyms for that matter. The fact that we've all probably lost hair due to our work. Not so much the actual tech, but the relatively young industry that grew up around it. And yet, we do this because we're creators. Programmers are some of the few I've seen will to do whatever it takes to get the job done. Sometimes out of fear of being fired from poor management but sometimes it's out of passion and love for the work of creating. You don't really see that type of passion in most industries. It's so ingrained in tech in fact, I think the industry counts on it. The industry is spoiled by it. And despite this. There really isn't much else we'd rather do. Think about it. We're the future. Technology is taking over the world. Knowing what you're doing with your life, would any old timer rather be a lawyer that doesn't know much about tech? As a whole, we're changing the planet. When I see people like Elon Musk, well that dude is a programmer. He's changing the world. I think it's hard to imagine a life better spent than one helping humanity take the next step. Not every job gets to do that in their tiny way. So has anyone else found themselves jaded for a period while the industry finds itself, yet to only realize that as people we are right where we are meant to be?
Jeremy Falcon
Yes, I'm kind of at the place right now. I've been doing this for over 30 years and even though the work is awesome at times, the day in day out monotony of trying to figure out code written by someone else is getting to me. That's why I've taken up video creation as a hobby. I think what happens is the we get starved of the creativity part due to poor management and/or long maintenance periods. I'm at that point now. I've created other projects on my own to keep up my knowledge base and for fun, but it's missing the thrill of having someone else use it. I hope that one day soon, I'll get placed on another project and the thrill returns. :-D :thumbsup:
When you are dead, you won't even know that you are dead. It's a pain only felt by others. Same thing when you are stupid.
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I have a question for the old timers. The youngins won't understand this unless they've lived a pass life they recall. Anyway, y'all ever get jaded with the technology industry? Just sick and tired of it all? The buzz words. The fact 99% of the industry is BS. PHBs. The acronyms for that matter. The fact that we've all probably lost hair due to our work. Not so much the actual tech, but the relatively young industry that grew up around it. And yet, we do this because we're creators. Programmers are some of the few I've seen will to do whatever it takes to get the job done. Sometimes out of fear of being fired from poor management but sometimes it's out of passion and love for the work of creating. You don't really see that type of passion in most industries. It's so ingrained in tech in fact, I think the industry counts on it. The industry is spoiled by it. And despite this. There really isn't much else we'd rather do. Think about it. We're the future. Technology is taking over the world. Knowing what you're doing with your life, would any old timer rather be a lawyer that doesn't know much about tech? As a whole, we're changing the planet. When I see people like Elon Musk, well that dude is a programmer. He's changing the world. I think it's hard to imagine a life better spent than one helping humanity take the next step. Not every job gets to do that in their tiny way. So has anyone else found themselves jaded for a period while the industry finds itself, yet to only realize that as people we are right where we are meant to be?
Jeremy Falcon
The bane of my tech life at the moment (has been for a few years now) is "agile". Yeah, you use JIRA and have a meeting every morning, sure you're agile. We have a fixed go-live, no retros (don't have the time, see previous point), no demos (see previous), no definition of done (so anything almost-done is good enough), testing is a separate task (agile only applies to development, things don't have to be tested to be considered working), product owners that don't really care, project managers instead of scrum masters, no transparency, all effort spent on making waterfall look like agile rather than using agile to leverage any benefits they think it may bring. Still...we just try and do our best to make sure our code is good quality despite the "agile framework" mangled around us.
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I still have no clue what you're talking about. Tech is running the world, so how can it be nothing but BS?
There are two kinds of people in the world: those who can extrapolate from incomplete data. There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
That's a loooooong answer to a short question. It's not just tech actually. It's been my observation that in most industries actually a significant amount of people just simply do enough to get the job done and that's it. The more people you talk to you the more you realize just how many people are involved in the industry that don't know the first thing about what tech really is. Granted, there is more than one skill set in the world besides knowing bits and bites that is useful, but I digress.
Jeremy Falcon
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The bane of my tech life at the moment (has been for a few years now) is "agile". Yeah, you use JIRA and have a meeting every morning, sure you're agile. We have a fixed go-live, no retros (don't have the time, see previous point), no demos (see previous), no definition of done (so anything almost-done is good enough), testing is a separate task (agile only applies to development, things don't have to be tested to be considered working), product owners that don't really care, project managers instead of scrum masters, no transparency, all effort spent on making waterfall look like agile rather than using agile to leverage any benefits they think it may bring. Still...we just try and do our best to make sure our code is good quality despite the "agile framework" mangled around us.
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Yes, I'm kind of at the place right now. I've been doing this for over 30 years and even though the work is awesome at times, the day in day out monotony of trying to figure out code written by someone else is getting to me. That's why I've taken up video creation as a hobby. I think what happens is the we get starved of the creativity part due to poor management and/or long maintenance periods. I'm at that point now. I've created other projects on my own to keep up my knowledge base and for fun, but it's missing the thrill of having someone else use it. I hope that one day soon, I'll get placed on another project and the thrill returns. :-D :thumbsup:
When you are dead, you won't even know that you are dead. It's a pain only felt by others. Same thing when you are stupid.
I know exactly what you mean man. Stuff like tech debt has become a dirty phase. We dare not mention it, but it's there. And yet through it all, what else would we really rather do you know? What you really want to be in a place where you didn't get to use your mind? Video editing and creation can be fun by the way. I don't know about you, but I got into this because I had a school buddy make a video game called Invasion of the Pac-Man Planet as a kid. The creativity lures you in with its s*xiness. But then you end up becoming the report creator. Gotta have reports. Reports, reports, reports! And pie charts.
Jeremy Falcon
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The bane of my tech life at the moment (has been for a few years now) is "agile". Yeah, you use JIRA and have a meeting every morning, sure you're agile. We have a fixed go-live, no retros (don't have the time, see previous point), no demos (see previous), no definition of done (so anything almost-done is good enough), testing is a separate task (agile only applies to development, things don't have to be tested to be considered working), product owners that don't really care, project managers instead of scrum masters, no transparency, all effort spent on making waterfall look like agile rather than using agile to leverage any benefits they think it may bring. Still...we just try and do our best to make sure our code is good quality despite the "agile framework" mangled around us.
That's a great example of what I'm talking about. In my experience few people actually do Agile. We just have a stand-up. And use the new shiny buzzword called Agile to sound smart. Boom... buzz buzz buzz word. Yay, we're smart now, let's go home. I do have to agree though that has more to do with management than the methodology itself. Although, having a bit of experience in that myself, I can safely say sometimes a manager isn't given the time to implement something correctly in this now now now world we live in. And so the cycle continues.
Jeremy Falcon
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I have a question for the old timers. The youngins won't understand this unless they've lived a pass life they recall. Anyway, y'all ever get jaded with the technology industry? Just sick and tired of it all? The buzz words. The fact 99% of the industry is BS. PHBs. The acronyms for that matter. The fact that we've all probably lost hair due to our work. Not so much the actual tech, but the relatively young industry that grew up around it. And yet, we do this because we're creators. Programmers are some of the few I've seen will to do whatever it takes to get the job done. Sometimes out of fear of being fired from poor management but sometimes it's out of passion and love for the work of creating. You don't really see that type of passion in most industries. It's so ingrained in tech in fact, I think the industry counts on it. The industry is spoiled by it. And despite this. There really isn't much else we'd rather do. Think about it. We're the future. Technology is taking over the world. Knowing what you're doing with your life, would any old timer rather be a lawyer that doesn't know much about tech? As a whole, we're changing the planet. When I see people like Elon Musk, well that dude is a programmer. He's changing the world. I think it's hard to imagine a life better spent than one helping humanity take the next step. Not every job gets to do that in their tiny way. So has anyone else found themselves jaded for a period while the industry finds itself, yet to only realize that as people we are right where we are meant to be?
Jeremy Falcon
I think it's great, while the young ones are stuck in their mobile phone world I prefer getting into the real world - there's still some beautiful sights out there that are far better in real life than on a 4" screen in your hand - and if there's no young jerks out there spoiling it all the better. Sure I still use tech for work, and it helps fill some evenings (seeing as TV has 100% gone to shit except of course when good sports are on) but any chance to leave tech behind for a while is always worth taking. Still haven't turned on my mobile data back on since coming back from a weekend away some while ago. (Coz when I'm roaming, the data isn't invited along - even if it's just across the road for a coffee.)
Sin tack the any key okay
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You're describing an issue with management, not with Agile.
There are two kinds of people in the world: those who can extrapolate from incomplete data. There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
Which is why I put "agile" in quotes, and my parenthetic comments made this pretty clear too. Thanks for taking time to point out the obvious though :)
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Which is why I put "agile" in quotes, and my parenthetic comments made this pretty clear too. Thanks for taking time to point out the obvious though :)
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Jeremy Falcon wrote:
has anyone else found themselves jaded for a period while the industry finds itself, yet to only realize that as people we are right where we are meant to be?
Not for me. I just focus on the task in front of me and enjoy myself. :) Having been doing this stuff since slightly before personal computers existed, I gave up worrying about what the industry as a whole was doing, mainly because it's always going the wrong direction according to me, but always ends up someplace cool and interesting enough that I'm glad to be along for the ride.
I live in Oregon, and I'm an engineer.
patbob wrote:
I just focus on the task in front of me and enjoy myself.
Take it to the soapbox! ;) Marc
Latest Article - Create a Dockerized Python Fiddle Web App Learning to code with python is like learning to swim with those little arm floaties. It gives you undeserved confidence and will eventually drown you. - DangerBunny Artificial intelligence is the only remedy for natural stupidity. - CDP1802
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I still have no clue what you're talking about. Tech is running the world, so how can it be nothing but BS?
There are two kinds of people in the world: those who can extrapolate from incomplete data. There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
RyanDev wrote:
Tech is running the world, so how can it be nothing but BS?
My take on that is that more often than not, tech creates a solution for a problem that didn't exist, except in the mind of some penny pincher or stock holder. Does an automated answering system where you have to go through 5 layers of options improve talking to a live person from the get go? Hell no. Does all the record keeping and analysis that goes on behind the scenes improve your auto insurance coverage? From what I've seen, no, all it does is make insurance more expensive by adding layers of services and bureaucracies that people don't know about, like your policy rates going up if you have a low credit score. Does Facebook and Twitter actually improve the quality of people's lives? Everyone credits the Arab Spring to tech like instant messaging, and look where the Arab Spring is now. Has tech actually improved the quality of care we get from doctors? Maybe, but maybe not, what with, for example, the 6 visit "results based" requirements in mental health services based on filling out computerized forms that in no way capture the real issues. Of course, for every example, there is a counter example. I know a lot more about drug side effects, astronomy, physics, etc., because I can look the things up and get informative answers. But let's not forget that all this tech we're creating is accessible to a small % of the world population that has bigger problems than checking their Facebook wall. Marc
Latest Article - Create a Dockerized Python Fiddle Web App Learning to code with python is like learning to swim with those little arm floaties. It gives you undeserved confidence and will eventually drown you. - DangerBunny Artificial intelligence is the only remedy for natural stupidity. - CDP1802
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I think it's great, while the young ones are stuck in their mobile phone world I prefer getting into the real world - there's still some beautiful sights out there that are far better in real life than on a 4" screen in your hand - and if there's no young jerks out there spoiling it all the better. Sure I still use tech for work, and it helps fill some evenings (seeing as TV has 100% gone to shit except of course when good sports are on) but any chance to leave tech behind for a while is always worth taking. Still haven't turned on my mobile data back on since coming back from a weekend away some while ago. (Coz when I'm roaming, the data isn't invited along - even if it's just across the road for a coffee.)
Sin tack the any key okay
Some of the brightest coworkers I've met have also realized this. Tech is our future, but too much of it can be destructive. We're still people and not machines. So a healthy balance must be found. Totally agree with most TV programming by the way. Maybe we're just getting old, but still I have to wonder what programming will be like a 1,000 years from now. Maybe we'll just skip the whole TV process and start giving people lethargy shots directly. So we can expedite the process of doing nothing.
Jeremy Falcon
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"You're welcome?" :^)
There are two kinds of people in the world: those who can extrapolate from incomplete data. There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
:laugh:
Jeremy Falcon
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RyanDev wrote:
Tech is running the world, so how can it be nothing but BS?
My take on that is that more often than not, tech creates a solution for a problem that didn't exist, except in the mind of some penny pincher or stock holder. Does an automated answering system where you have to go through 5 layers of options improve talking to a live person from the get go? Hell no. Does all the record keeping and analysis that goes on behind the scenes improve your auto insurance coverage? From what I've seen, no, all it does is make insurance more expensive by adding layers of services and bureaucracies that people don't know about, like your policy rates going up if you have a low credit score. Does Facebook and Twitter actually improve the quality of people's lives? Everyone credits the Arab Spring to tech like instant messaging, and look where the Arab Spring is now. Has tech actually improved the quality of care we get from doctors? Maybe, but maybe not, what with, for example, the 6 visit "results based" requirements in mental health services based on filling out computerized forms that in no way capture the real issues. Of course, for every example, there is a counter example. I know a lot more about drug side effects, astronomy, physics, etc., because I can look the things up and get informative answers. But let's not forget that all this tech we're creating is accessible to a small % of the world population that has bigger problems than checking their Facebook wall. Marc
Latest Article - Create a Dockerized Python Fiddle Web App Learning to code with python is like learning to swim with those little arm floaties. It gives you undeserved confidence and will eventually drown you. - DangerBunny Artificial intelligence is the only remedy for natural stupidity. - CDP1802
This is why I like you Marc. You're smart. Just don't tell anyone. It'll be a cold day in hell before you hear that from me. :rolleyes:
Jeremy Falcon
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Which is why I put "agile" in quotes, and my parenthetic comments made this pretty clear too. Thanks for taking time to point out the obvious though :)
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I have a question for the old timers. The youngins won't understand this unless they've lived a pass life they recall. Anyway, y'all ever get jaded with the technology industry? Just sick and tired of it all? The buzz words. The fact 99% of the industry is BS. PHBs. The acronyms for that matter. The fact that we've all probably lost hair due to our work. Not so much the actual tech, but the relatively young industry that grew up around it. And yet, we do this because we're creators. Programmers are some of the few I've seen will to do whatever it takes to get the job done. Sometimes out of fear of being fired from poor management but sometimes it's out of passion and love for the work of creating. You don't really see that type of passion in most industries. It's so ingrained in tech in fact, I think the industry counts on it. The industry is spoiled by it. And despite this. There really isn't much else we'd rather do. Think about it. We're the future. Technology is taking over the world. Knowing what you're doing with your life, would any old timer rather be a lawyer that doesn't know much about tech? As a whole, we're changing the planet. When I see people like Elon Musk, well that dude is a programmer. He's changing the world. I think it's hard to imagine a life better spent than one helping humanity take the next step. Not every job gets to do that in their tiny way. So has anyone else found themselves jaded for a period while the industry finds itself, yet to only realize that as people we are right where we are meant to be?
Jeremy Falcon
Yes.
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Yes.
Well said. :laugh:
Jeremy Falcon
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Some of the brightest coworkers I've met have also realized this. Tech is our future, but too much of it can be destructive. We're still people and not machines. So a healthy balance must be found. Totally agree with most TV programming by the way. Maybe we're just getting old, but still I have to wonder what programming will be like a 1,000 years from now. Maybe we'll just skip the whole TV process and start giving people lethargy shots directly. So we can expedite the process of doing nothing.
Jeremy Falcon
Jeremy Falcon wrote:
still I have to wonder what programming will be like a 1,000 years from now
It'll all be done by AI and tech will be implanted in everyone so you can never escape. Of course the cheapskates on free microsoft implants will spend 58 minutes of every hour frozen in place while updates are installed and 'telemetry' is sucked out of them as adverts are played
Sin tack the any key okay
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"agile" as a practitioner (willing or not) is that considered an oxymoron, irony, or both? OTOH: when you work for yourself "agile," as per the proper definition, becomes a way of life (100% without meetings ....)
Sin tack the any key okay
Everything in agile is badly named. "Agile" - great, you mean we get the work done only quicker? Ok guys we're going agile! Here's the go-live date, don't write any code until it's all documented first, we don't have time to test things and we'll let technical debt build up because we will put no insentiveves in place to get things "done". Wow, I love this agile stuff...better quality faster and all we need to do is have a 5 minute meeting in the morning! "Velocity" - great, that must be an absolute metric of performance. Right, how can we increase velocity? Let's forget about quality and working software being the measure of success, I want velocity to be the measure of success because more velocity means more better, right?
