Losing and regaining the passion...
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I have a question for the old timers. The youngins won't understand this unless they've lived a pass life they recall. Anyway, y'all ever get jaded with the technology industry? Just sick and tired of it all? The buzz words. The fact 99% of the industry is BS. PHBs. The acronyms for that matter. The fact that we've all probably lost hair due to our work. Not so much the actual tech, but the relatively young industry that grew up around it. And yet, we do this because we're creators. Programmers are some of the few I've seen will to do whatever it takes to get the job done. Sometimes out of fear of being fired from poor management but sometimes it's out of passion and love for the work of creating. You don't really see that type of passion in most industries. It's so ingrained in tech in fact, I think the industry counts on it. The industry is spoiled by it. And despite this. There really isn't much else we'd rather do. Think about it. We're the future. Technology is taking over the world. Knowing what you're doing with your life, would any old timer rather be a lawyer that doesn't know much about tech? As a whole, we're changing the planet. When I see people like Elon Musk, well that dude is a programmer. He's changing the world. I think it's hard to imagine a life better spent than one helping humanity take the next step. Not every job gets to do that in their tiny way. So has anyone else found themselves jaded for a period while the industry finds itself, yet to only realize that as people we are right where we are meant to be?
Jeremy Falcon
Hmm. I'm not jaded about the work I do: UI's for commercial ink-jet printers. I know I'm sick, but I like doing UI stuff. I don't even mind (too much) the stuff I do as the DSJB(*), admin'ing our source control and build servers, backups, and so on. (*) Departmental Sh!t-Job Boy The thing that has me burnt out though are the politics, the nonsensical re-organizations, and the layoffs every six months for the last five years. At last count I now have the responsibilities previously held by eight separate people. Admittedly some of those weren't full-time, but my workload is easily 4-5 times what it was in the early 2010's. Of course I haven't become all-powerful and 100% efficient since that time, so there's a lot of stuff that simply doesn't get done. Here's an example. Our bug list classifies items as enhancements (it would be nice), cosmetic (wrong color), minor (hey, it might cause a fire), major (it's on fire), and critical (we're on fire). My boss has explicitly instructed me to not work on any item classified minor and below. There's a whole lot of low-hanging fruit there that could improve customer satisfaction that won't get fixed. It's frustrating as hell. I compensate by running long distances (up to 10 miles last Sunday) and riding my bike to work every chance I get. Keeping my brain saturated in endorphins seems to help.
Software Zen:
delete this; -
I have a question for the old timers. The youngins won't understand this unless they've lived a pass life they recall. Anyway, y'all ever get jaded with the technology industry? Just sick and tired of it all? The buzz words. The fact 99% of the industry is BS. PHBs. The acronyms for that matter. The fact that we've all probably lost hair due to our work. Not so much the actual tech, but the relatively young industry that grew up around it. And yet, we do this because we're creators. Programmers are some of the few I've seen will to do whatever it takes to get the job done. Sometimes out of fear of being fired from poor management but sometimes it's out of passion and love for the work of creating. You don't really see that type of passion in most industries. It's so ingrained in tech in fact, I think the industry counts on it. The industry is spoiled by it. And despite this. There really isn't much else we'd rather do. Think about it. We're the future. Technology is taking over the world. Knowing what you're doing with your life, would any old timer rather be a lawyer that doesn't know much about tech? As a whole, we're changing the planet. When I see people like Elon Musk, well that dude is a programmer. He's changing the world. I think it's hard to imagine a life better spent than one helping humanity take the next step. Not every job gets to do that in their tiny way. So has anyone else found themselves jaded for a period while the industry finds itself, yet to only realize that as people we are right where we are meant to be?
Jeremy Falcon
I feel the same way but haven't figured out how to regain the passion. I still love it just don't want to do it any more. If that makes since. Been struggling with that for 2 years now. For a week or two I have a surge where I am really hyped to work on something. Then after that wears off I spend 3 or 4 months dread doing it. The really hard part is programming is the only thing I know. I have been doing it for most of my life and would be lost with out it.
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jhegedus wrote:
this wasn't written for you.
Apparently not. Clearly my 20 years experience in the industry has been better than a lot of yours. Lucky me, I guess.
There are two kinds of people in the world: those who can extrapolate from incomplete data. There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
One example of the BS part, Scrum's daily stand up meeting. It used to be a once a week status meeting and your manager might stop by your desk every day or so just to see how you are doing. Now it's every FRIKKIN' day. ScrumMaster, "Let's go around the room." Developer A, "I'm working on X, no blockers." Developer B, "I'm working on Y, no blockers." Developer C, "I'm working on Z, no blockers." etc. Two week sprints that are really only a week and a half because QA has to be on the same Sprint schedule as the developers and you have to allow time for them to finish testing. Plus the Sprint planning, Sprint Demo, Sprint Retrospective meetings on top of the daily stand up. And don't even get me started on the "Open Office" crap. I want my walls and shelves back, Dagnabit!
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I have a question for the old timers. The youngins won't understand this unless they've lived a pass life they recall. Anyway, y'all ever get jaded with the technology industry? Just sick and tired of it all? The buzz words. The fact 99% of the industry is BS. PHBs. The acronyms for that matter. The fact that we've all probably lost hair due to our work. Not so much the actual tech, but the relatively young industry that grew up around it. And yet, we do this because we're creators. Programmers are some of the few I've seen will to do whatever it takes to get the job done. Sometimes out of fear of being fired from poor management but sometimes it's out of passion and love for the work of creating. You don't really see that type of passion in most industries. It's so ingrained in tech in fact, I think the industry counts on it. The industry is spoiled by it. And despite this. There really isn't much else we'd rather do. Think about it. We're the future. Technology is taking over the world. Knowing what you're doing with your life, would any old timer rather be a lawyer that doesn't know much about tech? As a whole, we're changing the planet. When I see people like Elon Musk, well that dude is a programmer. He's changing the world. I think it's hard to imagine a life better spent than one helping humanity take the next step. Not every job gets to do that in their tiny way. So has anyone else found themselves jaded for a period while the industry finds itself, yet to only realize that as people we are right where we are meant to be?
Jeremy Falcon
Can you find a piece of it which ignites (or keeps going) the fire while dealing with the rest of it? I think I'm much in the space you're describing. What I've found is that it's the problems which are interesting, not the technology to solve those problems. The analytical part, like looking at thing X and thinking about how to refactor, or how to add new functionality Y is more interesting to me than the actual implementation. So, if I can do some of that mixed in with the day-to-day drudgery, that keeps me going. For now. Of course, sitting in useless meetings, wasting time listening to idiot managers jibber-jabber brings me down. But, that's going to happen anywhere. All we can do is try to minimize those things.
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One example of the BS part, Scrum's daily stand up meeting. It used to be a once a week status meeting and your manager might stop by your desk every day or so just to see how you are doing. Now it's every FRIKKIN' day. ScrumMaster, "Let's go around the room." Developer A, "I'm working on X, no blockers." Developer B, "I'm working on Y, no blockers." Developer C, "I'm working on Z, no blockers." etc. Two week sprints that are really only a week and a half because QA has to be on the same Sprint schedule as the developers and you have to allow time for them to finish testing. Plus the Sprint planning, Sprint Demo, Sprint Retrospective meetings on top of the daily stand up. And don't even get me started on the "Open Office" crap. I want my walls and shelves back, Dagnabit!
MarkTJohnson wrote:
ScrumMaster, "Let's go around the room." Developer A, "I'm working on X, no blockers." Developer B, "I'm working on Y, no blockers." Developer C, "I'm working on Z, no blockers." etc.
This worked really well for us. But we were not set on 2 week sprints. We had short goals but never let reality get in the way. We were flexible.
There are two kinds of people in the world: those who can extrapolate from incomplete data. There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
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I have a question for the old timers. The youngins won't understand this unless they've lived a pass life they recall. Anyway, y'all ever get jaded with the technology industry? Just sick and tired of it all? The buzz words. The fact 99% of the industry is BS. PHBs. The acronyms for that matter. The fact that we've all probably lost hair due to our work. Not so much the actual tech, but the relatively young industry that grew up around it. And yet, we do this because we're creators. Programmers are some of the few I've seen will to do whatever it takes to get the job done. Sometimes out of fear of being fired from poor management but sometimes it's out of passion and love for the work of creating. You don't really see that type of passion in most industries. It's so ingrained in tech in fact, I think the industry counts on it. The industry is spoiled by it. And despite this. There really isn't much else we'd rather do. Think about it. We're the future. Technology is taking over the world. Knowing what you're doing with your life, would any old timer rather be a lawyer that doesn't know much about tech? As a whole, we're changing the planet. When I see people like Elon Musk, well that dude is a programmer. He's changing the world. I think it's hard to imagine a life better spent than one helping humanity take the next step. Not every job gets to do that in their tiny way. So has anyone else found themselves jaded for a period while the industry finds itself, yet to only realize that as people we are right where we are meant to be?
Jeremy Falcon
I'm a lawyer but program for a living, if that tells you anything :D
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I have a question for the old timers. The youngins won't understand this unless they've lived a pass life they recall. Anyway, y'all ever get jaded with the technology industry? Just sick and tired of it all? The buzz words. The fact 99% of the industry is BS. PHBs. The acronyms for that matter. The fact that we've all probably lost hair due to our work. Not so much the actual tech, but the relatively young industry that grew up around it. And yet, we do this because we're creators. Programmers are some of the few I've seen will to do whatever it takes to get the job done. Sometimes out of fear of being fired from poor management but sometimes it's out of passion and love for the work of creating. You don't really see that type of passion in most industries. It's so ingrained in tech in fact, I think the industry counts on it. The industry is spoiled by it. And despite this. There really isn't much else we'd rather do. Think about it. We're the future. Technology is taking over the world. Knowing what you're doing with your life, would any old timer rather be a lawyer that doesn't know much about tech? As a whole, we're changing the planet. When I see people like Elon Musk, well that dude is a programmer. He's changing the world. I think it's hard to imagine a life better spent than one helping humanity take the next step. Not every job gets to do that in their tiny way. So has anyone else found themselves jaded for a period while the industry finds itself, yet to only realize that as people we are right where we are meant to be?
Jeremy Falcon
I've lost and regained the passion for software development a couple times in my 30 year career, mostly due to the company I was working for at the time being too damn cheap to invest in the tools needed to move the product forward or provide the needed staffing or the manager(s) getting caught up in the latest buzz words and thinking they knew better than the developers how to create good software. The last time this happened I resorted to building auto-cross race cars in my off time to stimulate my creative needs. Resulted in me now owning 2 very fast "race" cars plus I learned to weld, spray paint, tune suspensions and rewire modern fuel injected engines. Exploring the engine control systems I came across a DIY fuel injection system (Mega-Squirt), built one and end up modifying the open-source firmware to provide capabilities I needed. Rekindled my passion for software and got me more involved in low level embedded work. So, there is hope in the tech related world if you get too jaded/burned out by all the BS involved in the day-to-day grind of corporate software development.
Ken W.
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I have a question for the old timers. The youngins won't understand this unless they've lived a pass life they recall. Anyway, y'all ever get jaded with the technology industry? Just sick and tired of it all? The buzz words. The fact 99% of the industry is BS. PHBs. The acronyms for that matter. The fact that we've all probably lost hair due to our work. Not so much the actual tech, but the relatively young industry that grew up around it. And yet, we do this because we're creators. Programmers are some of the few I've seen will to do whatever it takes to get the job done. Sometimes out of fear of being fired from poor management but sometimes it's out of passion and love for the work of creating. You don't really see that type of passion in most industries. It's so ingrained in tech in fact, I think the industry counts on it. The industry is spoiled by it. And despite this. There really isn't much else we'd rather do. Think about it. We're the future. Technology is taking over the world. Knowing what you're doing with your life, would any old timer rather be a lawyer that doesn't know much about tech? As a whole, we're changing the planet. When I see people like Elon Musk, well that dude is a programmer. He's changing the world. I think it's hard to imagine a life better spent than one helping humanity take the next step. Not every job gets to do that in their tiny way. So has anyone else found themselves jaded for a period while the industry finds itself, yet to only realize that as people we are right where we are meant to be?
Jeremy Falcon
I'm in jaded mode at the moment. I use to love programming - I've been doing it for 45 years; but it has become commoditised. Agile / scrum means we are interchangeable components, effectively code-monkeys, small cogs in large wheels. We no longer 'own' our work; no-one cares about elegance and beauty in the code; there is no sense of achievement - it's just a case of getting a small piece of work done and then doing the next small job. Even my home projects have languished as my disillusionment with work tasks has taken the shine off my home programming. Would moving to another job help? Probably not - it could be out of the frying pan and into the fire. I know that I am fortunate - if I had been a few years older, there is no way I'd have made the grade of those hype intelligent pioneers of the computing world. If I had been a few years younger, I would have hated 'Computer Studies' being all about business and infrastructure and very little about programming and design. Modern programming has simultaneously 'dumbed down' the skill set (I'm from the generation that did not see the need for compilers - they only do what you you've already done in your head) and has complicated everything - you no longer just write a program that does something; you have to know dozens of frameworks, technologies, design patterns etc even to do simple tasks. I used to write large systems / applications; now all I do is fix figures in reports and add views in databases. Job satisfaction? You decide. I suppose it is the same in all maturing industries. We were metaphorically exploring the uncharted wild west, now we are cruising in air conditioned cars on a motorway. Yes, you get to the destination quicker and more comfortably; but where is the sense of adventure, danger, excitement and achievement? Give us a meaningful, significant project that is challenging and rewarding (intellectually) where we can use our unique insights and innovations and we will stop being jaded. Treat us as unskilled production line workers and we will stay depressed. Despite all that, I love programming, I love the folks around me in the office. I am living in the best possible time in history being paid for being involved with something that I am passionate about. So why am I still jaded and miserable?
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Jeremy Falcon wrote:
significant amount of people just simply do enough to get the job done and that's it
I get what you are saying. I often stumble upon this too. So much supposedly works but, in fact, doesn't actually work (see my recent rant on Nuget/Visual Studio). I often feel like Systems are carried out to a certain place and then just dropped. Now we are at a a place where hundreds of systems are in place that are only partially carried out.
I always just do what I have to, to get by...... Then I notice that there is just one more thing that I could do to make the outcome soooooo much better..... and then I do just that one thing. and on and on and then I am scrambling to get it all shinny to meet the deliverable schedule. As far as BS. Hummmmm, does seem to be a lot more middle management involved now. That is good and bad. Mostly bad it seems. Scrum, kind of necessary with the new gen of programmers, not so much with the silverbacks. Got to go now, I just noticed a bit of code that needs just one more pass to make it soooo much better.
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I'm in jaded mode at the moment. I use to love programming - I've been doing it for 45 years; but it has become commoditised. Agile / scrum means we are interchangeable components, effectively code-monkeys, small cogs in large wheels. We no longer 'own' our work; no-one cares about elegance and beauty in the code; there is no sense of achievement - it's just a case of getting a small piece of work done and then doing the next small job. Even my home projects have languished as my disillusionment with work tasks has taken the shine off my home programming. Would moving to another job help? Probably not - it could be out of the frying pan and into the fire. I know that I am fortunate - if I had been a few years older, there is no way I'd have made the grade of those hype intelligent pioneers of the computing world. If I had been a few years younger, I would have hated 'Computer Studies' being all about business and infrastructure and very little about programming and design. Modern programming has simultaneously 'dumbed down' the skill set (I'm from the generation that did not see the need for compilers - they only do what you you've already done in your head) and has complicated everything - you no longer just write a program that does something; you have to know dozens of frameworks, technologies, design patterns etc even to do simple tasks. I used to write large systems / applications; now all I do is fix figures in reports and add views in databases. Job satisfaction? You decide. I suppose it is the same in all maturing industries. We were metaphorically exploring the uncharted wild west, now we are cruising in air conditioned cars on a motorway. Yes, you get to the destination quicker and more comfortably; but where is the sense of adventure, danger, excitement and achievement? Give us a meaningful, significant project that is challenging and rewarding (intellectually) where we can use our unique insights and innovations and we will stop being jaded. Treat us as unskilled production line workers and we will stay depressed. Despite all that, I love programming, I love the folks around me in the office. I am living in the best possible time in history being paid for being involved with something that I am passionate about. So why am I still jaded and miserable?
jsc42 wrote:
Despite all that, I love programming, I love the folks around me in the office. I am living in the best possible time in history being paid for being involved with something that I am passionate about. So why am I still jaded and miserable?
That encapsulates so much of what I feel day to day. Nicely articulated.
One morning I shot an elephant in my pajamas. How he got in my pajamas, I don't know.
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I have a question for the old timers. The youngins won't understand this unless they've lived a pass life they recall. Anyway, y'all ever get jaded with the technology industry? Just sick and tired of it all? The buzz words. The fact 99% of the industry is BS. PHBs. The acronyms for that matter. The fact that we've all probably lost hair due to our work. Not so much the actual tech, but the relatively young industry that grew up around it. And yet, we do this because we're creators. Programmers are some of the few I've seen will to do whatever it takes to get the job done. Sometimes out of fear of being fired from poor management but sometimes it's out of passion and love for the work of creating. You don't really see that type of passion in most industries. It's so ingrained in tech in fact, I think the industry counts on it. The industry is spoiled by it. And despite this. There really isn't much else we'd rather do. Think about it. We're the future. Technology is taking over the world. Knowing what you're doing with your life, would any old timer rather be a lawyer that doesn't know much about tech? As a whole, we're changing the planet. When I see people like Elon Musk, well that dude is a programmer. He's changing the world. I think it's hard to imagine a life better spent than one helping humanity take the next step. Not every job gets to do that in their tiny way. So has anyone else found themselves jaded for a period while the industry finds itself, yet to only realize that as people we are right where we are meant to be?
Jeremy Falcon
Jeremy Falcon wrote:
And yet, we do this because we're creators.
You nailed it. I started in software development in the late 90's because I was striving for a means of fullfilling creative expression. I've made it a point over the years ensure the products I engineer are clean, visually unique, and expressive of my personality. A few years ago I really felt like I had arrived. 15+ years of experiences in a very diverse product environment gave me great satisfaction and gratitude. Since that time I've watched the technologies I'd devoted so many late nights studying and mastering basically die (GDI/WinForms, ASPNET WebForms, etc) and be completely replaced by newer (presumably better) frameworks (WPF, MVC, Store Apps, etc). Its a crushing feeling having to endure the thought of starting all over again every 5-10 years having to learn the latest framework (or hotness). Sometimes I just wish I had gone into pure engineering or some other industry. After all math doesn't change often, nor do most of the principles and tools in use in most other industries. I seem to spend most of my times these days porting code for problems I solved years ago in one platform over to whatever the newest platform is since the youngsters demand everything be written in whatever is the flavor of the month happens to be.
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Marc Clifton wrote:
Actually, I do. I know doctors and nurses that are incredibly passionate about their work. I play poker with guys that run their own construction companies, write editorials for news journals, work for drug companies, etc., and they all love their work. I know a lawyer that is passionate about their work in legal representation for women. They are all involved in "creating", whether it's a deck, an informative article, better medicine, better human conditions.
Marc, why are you trying to ruin my points with reason and logic? :-D
Marc Clifton wrote:
Yes, but then again, the industry is always finding itself, and whatever flash in the pan it finds itself in at the moment is often not one that I'm eager to partake in. That was the case when I was in my 20's, and is so in my 50's now as well. Actually, tech has itself made the flash-in-the-pan effect worse.
I went through that same phase. I'm still going through it. Current industry in any field has done more to dehumanize us than anything I can think of. People aren't aware of their instincts or senses anymore. It's like we're turning into machines that barely think under the illusion we think because we are in our heads. Which isn't always really thinking. Not to sound doom and gloom, but something should be done to change this. We're still humans - for now.
Marc Clifton wrote:
I don't know if I would go so far as to say we are right where we are meant to be. Literally where am I sitting right now (cubicle, insurance company) there are people around me that are doing what they are doing for the paycheck and nothing more. It's frustrating to be mostly surrounded by people that have passion only for the paycheck.
But we are man. We're always where we are meant to be. Every choice we've made in life put us exactly where we are. And our choices dictate exactly where we are meant to be. Once that's accepted it's pretty liberating actually. Because we can always choose something else.
Marc Clifton wrote:
Personally, having gone through a soul searching process a few years back
That's part of the wisdom that comes with introspection and aging and seeing and experiencing more of life I believe. Glad you did it man.
Marc Clifton wrote:
- I'm better off if I ignore
Jeremy Falcon wrote:
Every choice we've made in life put us exactly where we are. And our choices dictate exactly where we are meant to be.
I wonder about that (the difference between where we are and where we are meant to be) given that choice is not exactly as free as one would want -- family history, psychological problems, misinformation, etc. This reminds me of something I read a while back by a biblical scholar of sorts, that the phrase Jesus uses in the Bible, "sin no more", is a directive to return to one's true purpose in life. For me that raises the complex question of knowing what my true purpose is, and going down that path (pun intended) brings up the question of how do I know that the choices I'm making are in accordance with my purpose -- in other words "exactly where I am meant to be." I guess there are some questions one is meant to simply live with and be conscious of, and do one's best. Marc
Latest Article - Create a Dockerized Python Fiddle Web App Learning to code with python is like learning to swim with those little arm floaties. It gives you undeserved confidence and will eventually drown you. - DangerBunny Artificial intelligence is the only remedy for natural stupidity. - CDP1802
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Jeremy Falcon wrote:
Every choice we've made in life put us exactly where we are. And our choices dictate exactly where we are meant to be.
I wonder about that (the difference between where we are and where we are meant to be) given that choice is not exactly as free as one would want -- family history, psychological problems, misinformation, etc. This reminds me of something I read a while back by a biblical scholar of sorts, that the phrase Jesus uses in the Bible, "sin no more", is a directive to return to one's true purpose in life. For me that raises the complex question of knowing what my true purpose is, and going down that path (pun intended) brings up the question of how do I know that the choices I'm making are in accordance with my purpose -- in other words "exactly where I am meant to be." I guess there are some questions one is meant to simply live with and be conscious of, and do one's best. Marc
Latest Article - Create a Dockerized Python Fiddle Web App Learning to code with python is like learning to swim with those little arm floaties. It gives you undeserved confidence and will eventually drown you. - DangerBunny Artificial intelligence is the only remedy for natural stupidity. - CDP1802
Marc Clifton wrote:
I wonder about that (the difference between where we are and where we are meant to be) given that choice is not exactly as free as one would want -- family history, psychological problems, misinformation, etc.
But choice is free. I too grew up in a family of narcissistic liars that borderline on the psychology abusive. Went through the whole clingy and suicidal phase for it too. But the choice is ours. It always is. We cannot control what happens to us, where we are born, etc. But we can control how we respond to it. We've always had that power. And it's liberating actually since if we know it's of our own choosing we can choose differently. So, we're always right we we're supposed to be. We chose it. I'm almost 40 and only recently have I decided to give up on my family. So I'm speaking from experience. But I did choose where my life is, right now. We all do.
Marc Clifton wrote:
I guess there are some questions one is meant to simply live with and be conscious of, and do one's best.
I think about this stuff all the time too man. Like a lot. I did hear something I need to keep hearing over and over again. Basically, God's gift to us is our talents. Our gift to God is to use them and don't let it go to waste. And so our purpose in life is to live it to the fullest with your God-given talents. Otherwise we spit in the face of God. Makes sense too. If we give our kids something and they squander it we'd be thinking "wtf bro." I'm willing to bet you any amount of money that deep down you already know what you're good at. Nobody else can do something quite like Marc Clifton can. There's your purpose dude. There's something deep down inside you that you want... that's God talking man. And after 40 years of life I'm finally learning this for myself... God's reward to us is in the form of feelings. God is energy. Feelings are energy. If you feel awesome more times than not then you're on the right path. If you feel like crap a lot then you're own the wrong path. Yeah, only took 40 years to figure that out. Welcome to the wonderful world of overthinking. :laugh: :laugh:
Jeremy Falcon