Programmer vs software engineer
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I continually have to check the details of syntax and stuff when programming. Things like print format specifiers, the syntax of things I havent used for a year or so, and use a calculator to work out bit masks and check my bit wise logic. I can never get it right in my head. I dont remember details. I dont pride myself on that. I spend my time and energy on the big picture. Designing and understanding complex mechanisms. The architecture. The guts of the machine. So I think of myself as a software engineer, not a programmer. How about you lot?
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It's not about the abilities of the individual; it's about the criticality of the product. If it's a web site or line-of-business app, it ain't engineering, so don't call yourself an engineer. There are very very few software engineers. I'm a software developer and architect.
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I thought I was the only one here that fits this description... glad for the company!
I'm the Chief Bit-Byte-Blob Combobulator in my company (of one :) Technically, a "Software Engineer" might not do any actual "Programming" - maybe just designing/architecting. So I don't think it's always an equivalency. $0.02
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I continually have to check the details of syntax and stuff when programming. Things like print format specifiers, the syntax of things I havent used for a year or so, and use a calculator to work out bit masks and check my bit wise logic. I can never get it right in my head. I dont remember details. I dont pride myself on that. I spend my time and energy on the big picture. Designing and understanding complex mechanisms. The architecture. The guts of the machine. So I think of myself as a software engineer, not a programmer. How about you lot?
When they said I was a programmer I worked daily in 2 languages while I knew to varying levels about 5. I used printed manuals since that was all I had available, no google, no web, the index was your friend and remembering was faster. Then they labeled me a developer, I was working daily in about 4 languages and knew many more. The web was just beginning so it still wasn't much use and there was still books and man. Now I am an architect, there are no printed manuals. I can be working at any time in any of around 10 languages. I now realize that all languages are basically the same, except for prolog. Now I think more along "I want to do foo, I have to use language bar, how do I do foo in bar?" Somewhere out on the web somebody has probably done foo in bar or at least something close enough to figure out the rest of the way. I use a calculator for bit masks over 8 bits, I use a regex tool rather than stare at the ceiling. I spend a lot more time thinking about how to make the resulting code/arch understandable to the next person who has to look at it. There are better things to do with my memory and time than tracking the various shiny objects in the field, knowing that I need to do foo is more important. I use the term software engineer to describe myself to people who ask but won't understand. In my head I am just a person that fixes things.
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Sounds like me, though I am down a tooth. :) One thing you left off your list of resources was codeproject. I guess it is a given though because we are all here, aren't we?
Good Point! Oversight on my part. I think that I take Code Project for granted, it's just there. I would be at a loss without my regular email shots from CP. It's not only helped with codeine etc., but I've got some blummin' good applications for free.
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I continually have to check the details of syntax and stuff when programming. Things like print format specifiers, the syntax of things I havent used for a year or so, and use a calculator to work out bit masks and check my bit wise logic. I can never get it right in my head. I dont remember details. I dont pride myself on that. I spend my time and energy on the big picture. Designing and understanding complex mechanisms. The architecture. The guts of the machine. So I think of myself as a software engineer, not a programmer. How about you lot?
I think of software engineer as the guys who write compilers, device drivers, implement network protocols, design operating systems, frameworks, and that sort of thing. Programmers make use of the stuff created by software engineers, in order to build higher level applications. Generally speaking, software engineers build stuff for programmers, while programmers build stuff for everyone else. That being the case, I started out as a software engineer 20+ years ago, but am now a programmer.
On the other hand, you have different fingers. - Steven Wright
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I continually have to check the details of syntax and stuff when programming. Things like print format specifiers, the syntax of things I havent used for a year or so, and use a calculator to work out bit masks and check my bit wise logic. I can never get it right in my head. I dont remember details. I dont pride myself on that. I spend my time and energy on the big picture. Designing and understanding complex mechanisms. The architecture. The guts of the machine. So I think of myself as a software engineer, not a programmer. How about you lot?
I consider myself to be a Software Engineer (Level 5). That's my official title here at FlightSafety Simulation Systems as well. But to function in that capacity, I do need to constantly stay abreast of current programming technologies, environments, and tools. This often makes me feel like a Software Developer. We were Computer Programmers in the 1980s, when we had mainframes and only a few languages like FORTRAN, Pascal, and COBOL. The programs were coded on whole-punched cards that were submitted to the mainframe computer room for compilation, and the output was usually merely on printed paper. There were no IDEs, no Googles, no flat-screen monitors, and no CodeProject. That's when we were Programmers. ;)
Richard Givis Nidan of the Vortex
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I continually have to check the details of syntax and stuff when programming. Things like print format specifiers, the syntax of things I havent used for a year or so, and use a calculator to work out bit masks and check my bit wise logic. I can never get it right in my head. I dont remember details. I dont pride myself on that. I spend my time and energy on the big picture. Designing and understanding complex mechanisms. The architecture. The guts of the machine. So I think of myself as a software engineer, not a programmer. How about you lot?
To me, that is all just a part of programming. I am a programmer, software engineer, analyst, pc technician, operator, operations analyst, electronics newbie, physics newbie, gamer, automation specialist, etc. I just simplify it to Computer Programmer with a Computer Scientist perspective.
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I continually have to check the details of syntax and stuff when programming. Things like print format specifiers, the syntax of things I havent used for a year or so, and use a calculator to work out bit masks and check my bit wise logic. I can never get it right in my head. I dont remember details. I dont pride myself on that. I spend my time and energy on the big picture. Designing and understanding complex mechanisms. The architecture. The guts of the machine. So I think of myself as a software engineer, not a programmer. How about you lot?
If you don't code then your are neither programmer, developer nor software engineer. You are manager or project manager to be precise. Software engineers definitely code, they are also responsible for software architecture (DB, framework, direction, support and even budgeting).
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I continually have to check the details of syntax and stuff when programming. Things like print format specifiers, the syntax of things I havent used for a year or so, and use a calculator to work out bit masks and check my bit wise logic. I can never get it right in my head. I dont remember details. I dont pride myself on that. I spend my time and energy on the big picture. Designing and understanding complex mechanisms. The architecture. The guts of the machine. So I think of myself as a software engineer, not a programmer. How about you lot?
Started as a programmer, learning the skill of coding, but gained appreciation for software engineering in grad school, where very large problems were decimated down into little chunks that even I could understand better. Then I could see that coding within the context of an engineered plan was more pleasant. I could leverage the help of others without breeding discontent and chaos. Each skill uses different parts of my brain, and each can be enjoyable.
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Programmer. "Software Engineer" is a contradictory term. If engineers designed machines the way programmers write software, civilization as we understand it would collapse in a couple of hours.
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And if we programmers develop software like engineer develop machines, we would still be using computer in command lines.
Excellent!!
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When they said I was a programmer I worked daily in 2 languages while I knew to varying levels about 5. I used printed manuals since that was all I had available, no google, no web, the index was your friend and remembering was faster. Then they labeled me a developer, I was working daily in about 4 languages and knew many more. The web was just beginning so it still wasn't much use and there was still books and man. Now I am an architect, there are no printed manuals. I can be working at any time in any of around 10 languages. I now realize that all languages are basically the same, except for prolog. Now I think more along "I want to do foo, I have to use language bar, how do I do foo in bar?" Somewhere out on the web somebody has probably done foo in bar or at least something close enough to figure out the rest of the way. I use a calculator for bit masks over 8 bits, I use a regex tool rather than stare at the ceiling. I spend a lot more time thinking about how to make the resulting code/arch understandable to the next person who has to look at it. There are better things to do with my memory and time than tracking the various shiny objects in the field, knowing that I need to do foo is more important. I use the term software engineer to describe myself to people who ask but won't understand. In my head I am just a person that fixes things.
:) Glad some one sees it the same way I do! I put together the most trashy code, almost psuedo code, then let the compiler tell me where my syntax is wrong. Still, doesnt stop me creating great products!
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I continually have to check the details of syntax and stuff when programming. Things like print format specifiers, the syntax of things I havent used for a year or so, and use a calculator to work out bit masks and check my bit wise logic. I can never get it right in my head. I dont remember details. I dont pride myself on that. I spend my time and energy on the big picture. Designing and understanding complex mechanisms. The architecture. The guts of the machine. So I think of myself as a software engineer, not a programmer. How about you lot?
I am a senior software engineer. That is according to the company for which I work. Daily, I am using reference resources from the web (Google search, Stack Overflow, Code Project, and so on) to paper and book (real, technical books, reams of print-out code listing or requirement documents, or virtual paper as in Kindle or PDF). I've been doing this stuff since the early 1980s. I'm in my 50s. I see the big picture. Many changes have come and gone in our industry of software science. I try to be agile. I call myself a software and systems solutions engineer.
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There's a lot of us out here.
the not so silent majority...
At 75 I thought that I was the oldest coder in the World. I tell my clients "I can still do it.. if I just didn't look so old."
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At 75 I thought that I was the oldest coder in the World. I tell my clients "I can still do it.. if I just didn't look so old."
At 75, you probably are the oldest. I'm only 68.
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Chances are you're just getting old then brother. ;P
Jeremy Falcon
Jeremy Falcon wrote:
Chances are you're just getting old then brother. ;-P
Hey! I resemble that remark! ;-)
If you think hiring a professional is expensive, wait until you hire an amateur! - Red Adair
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Jeremy Falcon wrote:
Chances are you're just getting old then brother. ;-P
Hey! I resemble that remark! ;-)
If you think hiring a professional is expensive, wait until you hire an amateur! - Red Adair
:-D
Jeremy Falcon
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I continually have to check the details of syntax and stuff when programming. Things like print format specifiers, the syntax of things I havent used for a year or so, and use a calculator to work out bit masks and check my bit wise logic. I can never get it right in my head. I dont remember details. I dont pride myself on that. I spend my time and energy on the big picture. Designing and understanding complex mechanisms. The architecture. The guts of the machine. So I think of myself as a software engineer, not a programmer. How about you lot?
I wrote about this very topic a while back. Software Engineer Vs Programmer[^]
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I'm 68, down several teeth (my dad never left me anything but his crappy brittle teeth), and teaching myself C# as I convert my VB6 code to it. It does not get any better.
Getting old is hell, but it does beat the alternative...
After 52 years of writing computer programs in various languages across various platforms, I still get the same kick out of watching code run as I did when I started. I'm proud to be a "Programmer" although I moved into "Consultancy" and "Management" for the sake of my career. I never stopped writing code or learning new languages and concepts and I believe I'll be writing code as long as I can see and type. (I still have all my own teeth, but I invested a lot of money in crowns over the years...) Programming is about an attitude to problem solving and being determined to make something work; it doesn't matter whether you call yourself a "software engineer", a "programmer", a "code jockey" or a "computer geek"; if you will visualize a process and create it in working code, you are a "programmer".
Pete Dashwood