This is not a programming question... ;)
-
Why is it so hard to find out technical details of visual basic related material? I ask this because of the following: I've got some software to test here at work, it's written in VB X| :( I needed to find out the maximum capacity of the int and long data types, knowing that they were probably different to the C++ ones I'm used to (and they are I eventually discovered) Using google to search for '+"visual basic" +long +"data type" maximum capacity size' returned nothing of any use Thought about it for a bit and used google to search for the following '+"visual basic" how big can a long be" and bingo! :rolleyes: Is it a reflection of the perception of VB programmers that they must be protected from knowing the underlying structure of the language? I haven't got a witty signature.... :((
Bringing up Visual Basic help and typing in "long" brought up the following: "Long (long integer) variables are stored as signed 32-bit (4-byte) numbers ranging in value from -2,147,483,648 to 2,147,483,647. The type-declaration character for Long is the ampersand (&)." Just use the help system.
-
Bringing up Visual Basic help and typing in "long" brought up the following: "Long (long integer) variables are stored as signed 32-bit (4-byte) numbers ranging in value from -2,147,483,648 to 2,147,483,647. The type-declaration character for Long is the ampersand (&)." Just use the help system.
That would imply that I actually have visual basic, or MSDN for that matter installed. I don't and our company does not own the licenses for me to install it... :rolleyes: As for using MSDN online, that's where I went first but couldn't locate anything useful My point was that websites devoted to VB programming talk to you like you're a little kid! I don't have anything against VB, or vb developers for that matter, not my language of choice, but each to their own.
-
It's not hard at all. Maybe you shoukd have done what most VB programmers would actually know to do - use MSDN online if you don't have it locally to check this (funny, given that VB is a Microsoft language - who'd have thought of that, eh?), and as such it would take them half the time it took you to find out. This whole superiority complex displayed here against VB is a bit strange to me. Coming from Java I couldn't really care less, but it seem as though a few people here have an axe to grind against the VBers. I can only imagine that it follows the attitude shown by a colleague of mine who was one of those "it has to be C++ or nothing" types. He used to literally blow smoke over the fact that a large number of VB programmers made more than he did. I guess when the only tool in your bag is a hammer, everything looks like a nail eh?
I did look at MSDN, no need for sarcasm. Your condescending attitude is exactly what I was talking about in regard to VB websites. I used the advances search to look for "long data type capacity maximum value" restricting the search to visual basic 6.0 and .NET. It returned nothing useful. I do not have anything against VB programmers, or the language itself, I was merely commenting on the fact that most VB related websites use language which seems to indicate that VB programmers should be shielded from any technical details relating to the language...
-
jdunlap wrote: I use what gets the job done. Which at present is mostly C# ... You lucky bugger! I've managed to pick up a few .NET contracts which wanted a C# implementation, but for the most part they are few and far between. Whilst I have nothing against VB programmers, knowing a few who are actually very good and do well at other languages too - I've done VB myself, though I'm probably not very good at it - I can't help but post the comments of one VB guy who really thought he was the apex of all programmers. On firing up VS.NET and starting a VB.NET windows project, he claimed it was broken ... "it's f**cked up - there are no .bas files" :omg:
Andrew McCarter wrote: On firing up VS.NET and starting a VB.NET windows project, he claimed it was broken ... "it's f**cked up - there are no .bas files" HA! I can relate. At my new job a *lot* of the work is done in VB. Having not touched VB in almost 3 years I feel like I am constatly ice skating up hill when dealing with the language(that and my machine running fricking nt4). Esp with the shoddy inherantance. But I did have a great laugh when I sat down earlier this week with a co-worker and he asked me why I was wasting my time putting some of the common code into "class modules" and why I just didn't use the On_Click() event method. Oh well, it is a great place to work and the folks are pretty laid back. Hey don't worry, I can handle it. I took something. I can see things no one else can see. Why are you dressed like that? - Jack Burton
-
Andrew McCarter wrote: On firing up VS.NET and starting a VB.NET windows project, he claimed it was broken ... "it's f**cked up - there are no .bas files" HA! I can relate. At my new job a *lot* of the work is done in VB. Having not touched VB in almost 3 years I feel like I am constatly ice skating up hill when dealing with the language(that and my machine running fricking nt4). Esp with the shoddy inherantance. But I did have a great laugh when I sat down earlier this week with a co-worker and he asked me why I was wasting my time putting some of the common code into "class modules" and why I just didn't use the On_Click() event method. Oh well, it is a great place to work and the folks are pretty laid back. Hey don't worry, I can handle it. I took something. I can see things no one else can see. Why are you dressed like that? - Jack Burton
-
Why is it so hard to find out technical details of visual basic related material? I ask this because of the following: I've got some software to test here at work, it's written in VB X| :( I needed to find out the maximum capacity of the int and long data types, knowing that they were probably different to the C++ ones I'm used to (and they are I eventually discovered) Using google to search for '+"visual basic" +long +"data type" maximum capacity size' returned nothing of any use Thought about it for a bit and used google to search for the following '+"visual basic" how big can a long be" and bingo! :rolleyes: Is it a reflection of the perception of VB programmers that they must be protected from knowing the underlying structure of the language? I haven't got a witty signature.... :((
Liam OHagan wrote: Is it a reflection of the perception of VB programmers that they must be protected from knowing the underlying structure of the language? No, MS doesn't want them to know the underlying structure of the language. Even if they did allow it, VB programmers wouldn't want to know. :) Ya, nice sig! :) [EDIT]I just saw some of your other posts. You DON'T have a sig. Damn- I thought that "I don't have a witty sig..." stuff was your sig! You had me.[/EDIT] Vikram. ----------------------------- 1. Don't ask unnecessary questions. You know what I mean? 2. Avoid redundancy at all costs. 3. Avoid redundancy at all costs. "Do not give redundant error messages again and again." - A classmate of mine, while giving a class talk on error detection in compiler design.
-
Liam OHagan wrote: Is it a reflection of the perception of VB programmers that they must be protected from knowing the underlying structure of the language? No, it's because VB programmers don't themselves know the answers to these basic (no pun intended) questions. And if you tell them, they'll look at you with a blank stare and ask "what's a bit???". Marc Help! I'm an AI running around in someone's f*cked up universe simulator.
Sensitivity and ethnic diversity means celebrating difference, not hiding from it. - Christian Graus
Every line of code is a liability - Taka Muraoka
Microsoft deliberately adds arbitrary layers of complexity to make it difficult to deliver Windows features on non-Windows platforms--Microsoft's "Halloween files"Marc Clifton wrote: it's because VB programmers don't themselves know the answers to these basic (no pun intended) questions. And if you tell them, they'll look at you with a blank stare and ask "what's a bit???". I would not generalize all VB programmers. You ask most of the VB developers in india, i am sure you will be surprised to see their competence in the language. Cheers, Venkatraman Kalyanam Chennai - India "Being Excellent is not a skill, it is an attitude"
-
Marc Clifton wrote: it's because VB programmers don't themselves know the answers to these basic (no pun intended) questions. And if you tell them, they'll look at you with a blank stare and ask "what's a bit???". I would not generalize all VB programmers. You ask most of the VB developers in india, i am sure you will be surprised to see their competence in the language. Cheers, Venkatraman Kalyanam Chennai - India "Being Excellent is not a skill, it is an attitude"
Venkatraman wrote: VB developers in india, i am sure you will be surprised to see their competence Lemme guess, are you a VB user? Being from India myself, I can confidently :~ make this statement: The VB users (I won't call them programmers) here are useless. But then, you've got more experience than me, I'm only a student... When I design a small game, I sometimes first check out the UI in VB. But that's just about it- I don't even make a good prototype. From that stage on, I use MFC. Vikram. ----------------------------- 1. Don't ask unnecessary questions. You know what I mean? 2. Avoid redundancy at all costs. 3. Avoid redundancy at all costs. "Do not give redundant error messages again and again." - A classmate of mine, while giving a class talk on error detection in compiler design.
-
Andrew McCarter wrote: On firing up VS.NET and starting a VB.NET windows project, he claimed it was broken ... "it's f**cked up - there are no .bas files" HA! I can relate. At my new job a *lot* of the work is done in VB. Having not touched VB in almost 3 years I feel like I am constatly ice skating up hill when dealing with the language(that and my machine running fricking nt4). Esp with the shoddy inherantance. But I did have a great laugh when I sat down earlier this week with a co-worker and he asked me why I was wasting my time putting some of the common code into "class modules" and why I just didn't use the On_Click() event method. Oh well, it is a great place to work and the folks are pretty laid back. Hey don't worry, I can handle it. I took something. I can see things no one else can see. Why are you dressed like that? - Jack Burton
Chris Austin wrote: ice skating up hill :laugh::laugh::laugh: Vikram. ----------------------------- 1. Don't ask unnecessary questions. You know what I mean? 2. Avoid redundancy at all costs. 3. Avoid redundancy at all costs. "Do not give redundant error messages again and again." - A classmate of mine, while giving a class talk on error detection in compiler design.
-
Venkatraman wrote: VB developers in india, i am sure you will be surprised to see their competence Lemme guess, are you a VB user? Being from India myself, I can confidently :~ make this statement: The VB users (I won't call them programmers) here are useless. But then, you've got more experience than me, I'm only a student... When I design a small game, I sometimes first check out the UI in VB. But that's just about it- I don't even make a good prototype. From that stage on, I use MFC. Vikram. ----------------------------- 1. Don't ask unnecessary questions. You know what I mean? 2. Avoid redundancy at all costs. 3. Avoid redundancy at all costs. "Do not give redundant error messages again and again." - A classmate of mine, while giving a class talk on error detection in compiler design.
Vikram Punathambekar wrote: Lemme guess, are you a VB user? Being from India myself, I can confidently make this statement: The VB users (I won't call them programmers) here are useless. No offense, pls define a programmer for me and how programmers who use VB are not programmers but users.
-
Why is it so hard to find out technical details of visual basic related material? I ask this because of the following: I've got some software to test here at work, it's written in VB X| :( I needed to find out the maximum capacity of the int and long data types, knowing that they were probably different to the C++ ones I'm used to (and they are I eventually discovered) Using google to search for '+"visual basic" +long +"data type" maximum capacity size' returned nothing of any use Thought about it for a bit and used google to search for the following '+"visual basic" how big can a long be" and bingo! :rolleyes: Is it a reflection of the perception of VB programmers that they must be protected from knowing the underlying structure of the language? I haven't got a witty signature.... :((
Ok... i'm not a big fan of VB, but i've gotta say - the details are readily available. Both on MSDN, and on the hundreds of VB q/a sites out there, every aspect of VB i've ever touched is documented in some way. Most certainly, the size of data types is well known, and should be found easily in a search of MSDN (yes, i've done this several times and never felt the need to even bookmark it, it was found fast enough). Now, you may become sickened or confused upon learning the details, as they range from obvious to obviously obfuscated, but they are available.
- Shog9 -
I'd show a smile but I'm too weak I'd share with you, could I only speak
-
Vikram Punathambekar wrote: Lemme guess, are you a VB user? Being from India myself, I can confidently make this statement: The VB users (I won't call them programmers) here are useless. No offense, pls define a programmer for me and how programmers who use VB are not programmers but users.
Ravish wrote: pls define a programmer for me Simple...VB users are not programmers. But that's just my 2 cents. Like I said, I'm just a student and my statements are largely based on my personal experiences with my fellow-blokes* , which admittedly isn't much. If I find the truth to be otherwise, I'll change my mind-it's open. * - Those fellows can't even write a program to swap two numbers without using a third varible in C. Neither can they write a function to swap two variables. And they've finished THREE years in BE CSE, at a college that's supposed to be very good. Like I said, my experience isn't much...so I might be wrong. Vikram. ----------------------------- 1. Don't ask unnecessary questions. You know what I mean? 2. Avoid redundancy at all costs. 3. Avoid redundancy at all costs. "Do not give redundant error messages again and again." - A classmate of mine, while giving a class talk on error detection in compiler design.
-
Vikram Punathambekar wrote: Lemme guess, are you a VB user? Being from India myself, I can confidently make this statement: The VB users (I won't call them programmers) here are useless. No offense, pls define a programmer for me and how programmers who use VB are not programmers but users.
Just saw your pic...cool.:cool: Where do you live? Madras? Mumbai? Bangalore? Vikram. ----------------------------- 1. Don't ask unnecessary questions. You know what I mean? 2. Avoid redundancy at all costs. 3. Avoid redundancy at all costs. "Do not give redundant error messages again and again." - A classmate of mine, while giving a class talk on error detection in compiler design.
-
Ok... i'm not a big fan of VB, but i've gotta say - the details are readily available. Both on MSDN, and on the hundreds of VB q/a sites out there, every aspect of VB i've ever touched is documented in some way. Most certainly, the size of data types is well known, and should be found easily in a search of MSDN (yes, i've done this several times and never felt the need to even bookmark it, it was found fast enough). Now, you may become sickened or confused upon learning the details, as they range from obvious to obviously obfuscated, but they are available.
- Shog9 -
I'd show a smile but I'm too weak I'd share with you, could I only speak
Any serious VB-er should read Hardcore Visual Basic. It's out of print, but it's availabl online. Where's that link? Shows how little I've used VB recently. Anyway, it's available in full online.
"Do unto others as you would have them do unto you." - Jesus
"An eye for an eye only makes the whole world blind." - Mahatma Gandhi -
Ok... i'm not a big fan of VB, but i've gotta say - the details are readily available. Both on MSDN, and on the hundreds of VB q/a sites out there, every aspect of VB i've ever touched is documented in some way. Most certainly, the size of data types is well known, and should be found easily in a search of MSDN (yes, i've done this several times and never felt the need to even bookmark it, it was found fast enough). Now, you may become sickened or confused upon learning the details, as they range from obvious to obviously obfuscated, but they are available.
- Shog9 -
I'd show a smile but I'm too weak I'd share with you, could I only speak
Agreed, but the manner in which it is presented leads to the conclusion that "yes there's all this funky stuff that happens, but you don't need to know about it, in the meantime, look at this pretty dialog box!" I've seen a similar phenomenon with the first iMac, one was purchased by the secretary at work, and when attepting to access the net all that was required was the IP of the dns, but you had to sit through a 10 minute audio visual presentation in order to enter the IP... What annoys me most is that these things are made very simple to use, whether you like it or not, it's like it's being pitched at the lowest common denominator.
-
Marc Clifton wrote: it's because VB programmers don't themselves know the answers to these basic (no pun intended) questions. And if you tell them, they'll look at you with a blank stare and ask "what's a bit???". I would not generalize all VB programmers. You ask most of the VB developers in india, i am sure you will be surprised to see their competence in the language. Cheers, Venkatraman Kalyanam Chennai - India "Being Excellent is not a skill, it is an attitude"
Venkatraman wrote: You ask most of the VB developers in india, i am sure you will be surprised to see their competence in the language. Er, I have a slightly (only slightly) different experience. I was surprised too. But not in the same way that you were probably talking about. :)
Regards,Rohit Sinha
Do not wait for leaders; do it alone, person to person.
- Mother Teresa -
Marc Clifton wrote: it's because VB programmers don't themselves know the answers to these basic (no pun intended) questions. And if you tell them, they'll look at you with a blank stare and ask "what's a bit???". I would not generalize all VB programmers. You ask most of the VB developers in india, i am sure you will be surprised to see their competence in the language. Cheers, Venkatraman Kalyanam Chennai - India "Being Excellent is not a skill, it is an attitude"
Venkatraman wrote: would not generalize all VB programmers. :) I have had both good and bad experiences with VB programmers. THE BAD :( As I said before, the fact that it is easy to create a simple VB app attracts people who would not be able to do much programming in other languages like C++. These people tend to be ignorant and somewhat lazy. They will take very bad shortcuts to avoid having to get "down-and-dirty" to get a more complex job done. I've seen a program, for instance, where the programmer used the API to refresh the screen every 3 seconds because they couldn't be bothered to make sure their control re-drew itself properly. And there is thousands of pages of code on planet source code and other VB sites that is hardly to be qualified as code. THE GOOD :) However, that is not the whole story. Many serious programmers like VB for the ability to get the job done quickly. They understand the various programming concepts and the OS they work on. They take the bother to read up on what is relevant to the project they are working on. They write high-quality code, and they can produce apps that match or rival those written in C++. VB Classic is a language with many limitations. VB .NET still has a few limitations, but nevertheless is an excellent language and worthy of respect. It is fully OO and can do anything needed to produce an excellent desktop app. I prefer C# myself, but I would never call VB .NET programmers stupid just because they are VB .NET programmers. Take a look at these sites: http://www.vbaccelerator.com/[^] http://www.domaindlx.com/e_morcillo/[^] http://www.vbsmart.com/[^] http://www.mvps.org/btmtz/[^] http://www.vbclarity.com/[^]
-
I did look at MSDN, no need for sarcasm. Your condescending attitude is exactly what I was talking about in regard to VB websites. I used the advances search to look for "long data type capacity maximum value" restricting the search to visual basic 6.0 and .NET. It returned nothing useful. I do not have anything against VB programmers, or the language itself, I was merely commenting on the fact that most VB related websites use language which seems to indicate that VB programmers should be shielded from any technical details relating to the language...
I would tend to agree that the 'nasty details' in VB documentation are hidden - the way I looked in MSDN to find out this information was to llok in the language reference...only to find that there was no built-in data type reference in the index....Still, a bit of lateral thinking takes you to the Dim statement (oh, how apt...) and theres a link to a Data Type Summary from there. Not as obvious as it could be. I did the same thing for Visual C++ and a similar data type summary comes under 'Basic Concepts' in the index.... Stuart Dootson 'Java, Basic, who cares - it's all a bunch of tree-hugging hippy cr*p'
-
I would tend to agree that the 'nasty details' in VB documentation are hidden - the way I looked in MSDN to find out this information was to llok in the language reference...only to find that there was no built-in data type reference in the index....Still, a bit of lateral thinking takes you to the Dim statement (oh, how apt...) and theres a link to a Data Type Summary from there. Not as obvious as it could be. I did the same thing for Visual C++ and a similar data type summary comes under 'Basic Concepts' in the index.... Stuart Dootson 'Java, Basic, who cares - it's all a bunch of tree-hugging hippy cr*p'
I always wished they would tell you exactly what's going on under the covers - there's always more than one way of doing things, and if you know exactly what's going on, you can be more efficient. Of course, many things are easy to guess.
"Do unto others as you would have them do unto you." - Jesus
"An eye for an eye only makes the whole world blind." - Mahatma Gandhi -
jdunlap wrote: I use what gets the job done. Which at present is mostly C# ... You lucky bugger! I've managed to pick up a few .NET contracts which wanted a C# implementation, but for the most part they are few and far between. Whilst I have nothing against VB programmers, knowing a few who are actually very good and do well at other languages too - I've done VB myself, though I'm probably not very good at it - I can't help but post the comments of one VB guy who really thought he was the apex of all programmers. On firing up VS.NET and starting a VB.NET windows project, he claimed it was broken ... "it's f**cked up - there are no .bas files" :omg:
Even about a year and a half after the release of .NET, I found that people really didn't know what it was. "It has no variant! I would never use a language without variants!" "If there's going to be a 'OrElse' or an 'AndAlso' then ther might as well be a 'ThenAgain' and a 'MaybeNot'." and more...
"Do unto others as you would have them do unto you." - Jesus
"An eye for an eye only makes the whole world blind." - Mahatma Gandhi