Are we too old?
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Keep up with the under-35 crowd in software development? At 63, I still run rings around them.
Sure you do. :~
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Mobile is real. If you are over 35, you are too old for this industry. Try having fun instead of killing yourself, "trying" to keep up with those that are younger, smarter, and require less sleep then you do. Yes, we are wise, but that really doesn't mean shit, now does it?
Nonsense! I know a lot of people working on mobile development (mostly games) and at least half of them are over 35. It's not all about "crunch", although that was one of the reasons I got out of games dev* (in my 50's). And it's most definitely not the case that younger means smarter, especially when it comes to doing clever optimisations to squeeze out the last bit of performance or to reduce memory usage. [ * when I say out, I mean professionally - I still do indy development at home, including mobile stuff... ]
Days spent at sea are not deducted from one's alloted span - Phoenician proverb
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Sure you do. :~
Most, but not all, of the 35 and under developers I know are great at memorizing and churning out code. But often with little thought to how manageable the code is, how brittle it is, or how OO it is. There is so much more to software development than coding, though coding well is definitely a must at any age. What I notice lacking the most is the ability to see, design, and code efficient, reusable, maintainable solutions to the business goals in a given software project. Just code something quick and dirty, throw it out there, hope it passes QA, and then hope you have moved on before the hack you did becomes a maintenance or extension problem. That seems to be a common problem with the 35 and under developers. But fortunately, not all.
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Mobile is real. If you are over 35, you are too old for this industry. Try having fun instead of killing yourself, "trying" to keep up with those that are younger, smarter, and require less sleep then you do. Yes, we are wise, but that really doesn't mean shit, now does it?
Wow, someone's got up on the wrong side of bed. * Starting wages have risen faster than top wages, so your young colleagues make as much as you did with 5 years' experience. * The more senior you get, the higher the expectations, not just in terms of experience, but in terms of IQ. Companies try hard not to hire senior people unless they are unicorns. * Companies don't want to spend money on training. They you will get the hint and leave, once your skills need an update. This is what causes the developer shortage. Sigh. So yeah, I guess I did too.
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You don't know what old is. I learned to program my first computer in 1966, pure machine code keyed in instruction by instruction on the front panel.
I can't make a claim that far back but I can say my first professional software was in COBOL on punched cards. My debugger was about 6-8 inches above my shoulders. Today I work embedded C and love every minute, even the crunches. I cringe at these new wonder tools that crop up about once a week that do everything that once required discipline. I imagine these are for kids who need to keep one eye on their phone. Where will you be when something goes wrong or when that tool isn't there? "Never happen", the young one will say with complete confidence and unearned arrogance. Youth is wasted on the young.
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I can't make a claim that far back but I can say my first professional software was in COBOL on punched cards. My debugger was about 6-8 inches above my shoulders. Today I work embedded C and love every minute, even the crunches. I cringe at these new wonder tools that crop up about once a week that do everything that once required discipline. I imagine these are for kids who need to keep one eye on their phone. Where will you be when something goes wrong or when that tool isn't there? "Never happen", the young one will say with complete confidence and unearned arrogance. Youth is wasted on the young.
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Ha! Yes, the pic clause, casting out all ambiguity. Did we even do type casting? If we did, I don't even remember. And the other three divisions (and of course the sections within), sure. I haven't seen that language in decades and often wonder what it morphed into. I remember considering myself "advanced" when I embraced the 'perform ... depending on ...'. Seemed so elegant.
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Slacker007 wrote:
If you are over 35, you are too old for this industry
Agist prick.
Software Zen:
delete this;Interesting, I am 46 years old. How does that work? Am I an agist prick if I am under 35 and just a prick if I am over 35?
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So we either adapt or get left behind too poop in our adult diapers.
Jeremy Falcon
Yes.
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Interesting, I am 46 years old. How does that work? Am I an agist prick if I am under 35 and just a prick if I am over 35?
Your comment states that if you are over the age of 35, you have no place in this industry. I disagree. I am 56 years old. I have been on the receiving end of age-based prejudice in this field more than once. I no longer tolerate it.
Software Zen:
delete this; -
Your comment states that if you are over the age of 35, you have no place in this industry. I disagree. I am 56 years old. I have been on the receiving end of age-based prejudice in this field more than once. I no longer tolerate it.
Software Zen:
delete this;Gary Wheeler wrote:
you have no place in this industry.
and I disagree as well. I think I was trying to be a bit dramatic to emphasize a point.
Gary Wheeler wrote:
I have been on the receiving end of age-based prejudice in this field more than once.
So have I.
Gary Wheeler wrote:
I no longer tolerate it.
There really is nothing you can do about it, really. You can't force someone to hire you, or promote you because you are 56 years old, and you no longer tolerate it....which is part of the point of my initial post. Cheers. :)
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Mobile is real. If you are over 35, you are too old for this industry. Try having fun instead of killing yourself, "trying" to keep up with those that are younger, smarter, and require less sleep then you do. Yes, we are wise, but that really doesn't mean shit, now does it?
I can write code as well as you, you young whipper-snapper! (I'm 59). The only issue with me is that I need lots of naps! ;-)
If you think hiring a professional is expensive, wait until you hire an amateur! - Red Adair
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I can write code as well as you, you young whipper-snapper! (I'm 59). The only issue with me is that I need lots of naps! ;-)
If you think hiring a professional is expensive, wait until you hire an amateur! - Red Adair
I'm 46 and need all the naps I can get. ;)
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Not really. There are two industries inside our industry. One is a lottery and the other one is knowledge based. Lottery are shining web thingies and mobile apps. Products that, given sufficient supply of coke, coffee, and weeks, can be replicated by any group of students, anywhere. It's a lottery because you have to be on the right place in the right time to succeed. There is only one Twitter, even if the underlying app is less than impressive. Its capital today is the content crowd, not the app. And than there are things that random groups of students can't replicate. In years. Because they are just too hard. Like DBMS servers, rockets, self-driving cars, pacemakers, etc. Hence ... if you want a long lasting career in programming ... you have to grow out of the lottery stuff. My 0.05£.
Well Said Tomaz; But I want to add to your list, "business applications" a lot of these shining web/mobile things, actually don't process anything or do anything, they just look pretty :-)
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Your comment states that if you are over the age of 35, you have no place in this industry. I disagree. I am 56 years old. I have been on the receiving end of age-based prejudice in this field more than once. I no longer tolerate it.
Software Zen:
delete this;I am 63 years old, have been a developer since the 70's, and probably will be writing code when I'm in my 70's (who can afford to retire?). Like you, I will not tolerate age-based prejudice, or any discernible prejudice for that matter. You can take my keyboard (or whatever device I'm working with) when you pry it from my cold, dead, fingers.