How many of you really believe UFO stories?
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There are many credible accounts from pilots, backed up by radar tracking from the ground, of unknown objects travelling in odd ways; stopping, accelerating at ridiculous rates etc. AT the same time it is very likely there is life elsewhere in the universe. Given the ability of life to utilise extreme environments on earth (deep sea ocean vents, a heat and sulphur system, as opposed to the surface, which is a sunlight and carbon cycle system) we could well have life on Europa for example. Are these alien spacecraft? We just dont know. They could be, they could be some weird unknown natural effect, like ball lightening for example. It can do some very odd things.
Munchies_Matt wrote:
Are these alien spacecraft?
The problem with this argument is the number of assumptions of which all must be true for it to succeed. 1. Life must exist. 2. Intelligent life must exist 3. Technological life must exist 4. Technological life must exist now (versus the other 20 billion years of the universe.) 5. They must have some form of moving through space that is reasonable and undetectable. 6. They must want to hide from us. 7. They must be able to hide from us, perfectly. 8. The last 3 require MULTIPLE technologies that far surpass anything that the earth has and some of which would violate physical laws. And probably others. There are similar lines of assumptions that can lead one to suppose that guardian angles must exist. And that unicorn farts smell like roses.
Munchies_Matt wrote:
They could be, they could be some weird unknown natural effect, like ball lightening for example
There are a vast number of just weather effects which are odd and which people who have not study these effects would not identify them. Even when someone knows about some of these without additional information, not readily available to the random person at a random point on the earth, conclusively identifying them can be difficult.
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Munchies_Matt wrote:
There are many credible accounts from pilots
...and there's my problem - for some reason pilots, policemen and soldiers are always completely in control of their perceptions and unable to be deceived by them. There is an element in pilot training called 'human factors' which very clearly show how easy it is for even pilots to be deceived by their senses. Although of course being able to back up these claims with radar does add something to their claims.
“That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence.”
― Christopher Hitchens
GuyThiebaut wrote:
Although of course being able to back up these claims with radar does add something to their claims.
In 1952, no that has little to do with anything. Radar was very new then and very crud. There is a reason weather forecasters use it now to identify many things and did not use it at all then. Volume 52 - CSI[^]
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It is the radar back up that shows it isnt just pilot hallucination. There was a case over NZ, between north and south islands, backed up by radar, for example. Of course it could be some natural phenomenon. Ball lightening, as I mentioned does some strange things. ball lightning - Google Search[^] Ball lightning - Wikipedia[^] It can hover, enter a room, move about. Very strange stuff.
Munchies_Matt wrote:
There was a case over NZ, between north and south islands, backed up by radar, for example.
Hard to tell what you mean but if you mean New Zealand in 1978 then yes there is another explanation. Including the radar... Search for "New Zealand" [^]
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Who knows how far we can push back the boundaries of physics?
Munchies_Matt wrote:
Who knows how far we can push back the boundaries of physics?
Science does. If one makes unlimited assumptions that is magic, not science. And economists also have something to say about it. For example there is an ongoing estimate of how much it would cost to build one generation ship, if I recall correctly it was 10 trillion dollars. And that is with no assurance that the technology we have would keep it alive. Following is ascribing to magic when it suggests that anti-matter production costs will go down despite decades in which it has not gone down. NASA - New and Improved Antimatter Spaceship for Mars Missions[^]
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Anna-Jayne Metcalfe wrote:
the chances of us being alone in the universe are vanishingly small.
As are the odds they can overcome the vast distances to get here, or even to find us out of all the possible locations.
If you think 'goto' is evil, try writing an Assembly program without JMP.
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"Extraordinary claim requires extraordinary evidence" is an unintelligent expression invented by a skeptic who was covering up the fact that he had already accepted the evidence.
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It isn't hard to believe in UFOs if you don't confuse the term with "extraterrestrial" like most yahoos seem to want to do. Every experimental aircraft that goes up and is seen by someone is technically a UFO as it has not yet been classified. Why do you think it happens so often near air bases? Do I think extraterrestrials have visited this planet? I sure hope not. I mean, the way we treat our elderly, our soldiers, folks with different skin tones? Look at our own (US) government, the rich minority screwing the vast majority for more of what they already have in abundance. Nation states making war with other nations states over what - lines on a map, words in a book. I sure hope not. Ignorance rules over Sol 3 and it's embarrassing.
PNutHed wrote:
I mean, the way we treat our elderly, our soldiers, folks with different skin tones? Look at our own (US) government, the rich minority screwing the vast majority for more of what they already have in abundance. Nation states making war with other nations states over what - lines on a map, words in a book. I sure hope not. Ignorance rules over Sol 3 and it's embarrassing.
Not to mention that they are perfect in that their technology and intellect is 100% infallible. The converse of course is that they do crash and then there is vast, 100% perfect worldwide conspiracy which is hiding their mistakes. The later of course would make one wonder why the fallible aliens do not put humans in charge.
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brothers wrote:
All aspects of the phenomenon described are adequately explained by ball ligtning.
No sure what you are referring to is clear. The original article is sourced by a company specifically set up to sensationalize extraterrestrials and several proponents of the same and it references three different events without providing much information about any of them.
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I thought that video was a joke, only in that it was such a mundane sighting. I've seen better with my own eyes with my father who worked for the DIA who were in charge of investigating and deliberately debunking reports even when they knew they were legitimate. Now, with your questioning it, I realize that Disclosure really is necessary. The whole thing goes a whole lot deeper than this. One of my former workmates said that a soldier in the Pentagon told him that he once saw a saucer in a hanger. I would suggest you do a little reading and open your eyes a bit.
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Former Navy pilot describes encounter with UFO studied by secret Pentagon program[^] Never settle! :doh: I think it's mainly in the US, people are so crazy about this funny UFO things? :)
Starting to think people post kid pics in their profiles because that was the last time they were cute - Jeremy Falcon.
Every single UFO claim that has had real actual evidence has been found to either be a fraud or explained by natural or even man-made events. Witnesses have been found to either be confused, significantly lacking in specific knowledge about the events or even out right lying. There are events for which no real evidence exists and concluding from those that they 'must' be extraterrestrials is no more reasonable than claiming that they 'must' be angels.