ISO_3166-1 codes for the UK folks...
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I only know one scotsman. He'd be happy, it would give him a reason to use sarcasm.
Wrong is evil and must be defeated. - Jeff Ello
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So here I am updating a list of a countries in a database I'm working on (fun stuff) to be all recent and fancy etc. I decided "hey, why not get all official and go with ISO standards." Cool right? Well, therein makes one wonder. If you look at the list of ISO-3166-1[^] codes... UK is gone. So is Scotland, etc. You can search for
ISO 3166-2:GBon the page to see the entry I'm referring to. Now it's GB for the whole darn mess. I know the UK isn't a country per sé, but when I show a list of countries as a selection on a form in a webpage and it doesn't say something like United Kingdom or Scotland and just a blanket "United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland" in a select box that means everything and the kitchen sink, I can't help but think WTF. So, let's say I want to store the address - including country - for a user in a database who lives in Scotland. Should I now be saying: John Doe, XYZ, in the friggin United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland? Seems kinda silly to not just say Scotland, right?Jeremy Falcon
What's the difference between a country and a state anyway? The Difference between the United Kingdom, Great Britain and England Explained - YouTube[^]
Wrong is evil and must be defeated. - Jeff Ello
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I only know one scotsman. He'd be happy, it would give him a reason to use sarcasm.
Wrong is evil and must be defeated. - Jeff Ello
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So here I am updating a list of a countries in a database I'm working on (fun stuff) to be all recent and fancy etc. I decided "hey, why not get all official and go with ISO standards." Cool right? Well, therein makes one wonder. If you look at the list of ISO-3166-1[^] codes... UK is gone. So is Scotland, etc. You can search for
ISO 3166-2:GBon the page to see the entry I'm referring to. Now it's GB for the whole darn mess. I know the UK isn't a country per sé, but when I show a list of countries as a selection on a form in a webpage and it doesn't say something like United Kingdom or Scotland and just a blanket "United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland" in a select box that means everything and the kitchen sink, I can't help but think WTF. So, let's say I want to store the address - including country - for a user in a database who lives in Scotland. Should I now be saying: John Doe, XYZ, in the friggin United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland? Seems kinda silly to not just say Scotland, right?Jeremy Falcon
I went through the same pain many years ago. Take a look at England vs Great Britain vs United Kingdom Explained - Brilliant Maps[^] [Edit: I'm happy to share whatever data I have with you if you need it. Just let me know what you need]
cheers Chris Maunder
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Well, you wouldn't spell out, "The United States of America", either I bet. I don't think that standard is designed for your purpose. If I recall correctly, my wife writes "Europe" on the cards she sends to relatives in Austria and that small wet island. :)
Yeah totally. It's way too verbose. Rather than re-key stuff, I just decided to add a shorthand column to the DB. So if for whatever reason I need to show the country at least it won't read like a paragraph or novel.
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What's the difference between a country and a state anyway? The Difference between the United Kingdom, Great Britain and England Explained - YouTube[^]
Wrong is evil and must be defeated. - Jeff Ello
Great minds think alike... I totally watched that same exact video... just to make sure that if I "engineer" something it came out ok.
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I went through the same pain many years ago. Take a look at England vs Great Britain vs United Kingdom Explained - Brilliant Maps[^] [Edit: I'm happy to share whatever data I have with you if you need it. Just let me know what you need]
cheers Chris Maunder
Thanks man, turns out I watched that same exact video. Totally wish I would've had your offer about a week ago. I just spent the entirety of this week cleaning up and tweaking my geo data (to the tune of 4million-ish cities) with all this new fancy ISO 3166 stuff. I have a about 3.5k off the wall places I have no real clue wtf their proper M49 code is though. I ended up using some private ones I found off of an XML feed on unicode.org. Just out of curiosity, how are you naming your "regional" table that contains states, provinces, etc? I can't call mine State and I don't think Province will apply to every country in the world. Oh the joys of making an international app.
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So here I am updating a list of a countries in a database I'm working on (fun stuff) to be all recent and fancy etc. I decided "hey, why not get all official and go with ISO standards." Cool right? Well, therein makes one wonder. If you look at the list of ISO-3166-1[^] codes... UK is gone. So is Scotland, etc. You can search for
ISO 3166-2:GBon the page to see the entry I'm referring to. Now it's GB for the whole darn mess. I know the UK isn't a country per sé, but when I show a list of countries as a selection on a form in a webpage and it doesn't say something like United Kingdom or Scotland and just a blanket "United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland" in a select box that means everything and the kitchen sink, I can't help but think WTF. So, let's say I want to store the address - including country - for a user in a database who lives in Scotland. Should I now be saying: John Doe, XYZ, in the friggin United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland? Seems kinda silly to not just say Scotland, right?Jeremy Falcon
Jeremy Falcon wrote:
So, let's say I want to store the address - including country - for a user in a database who lives in Scotland. Should I now be saying: John Doe, XYZ, in the friggin United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland? ...
The information that I have says that John Doe does not exist in the UKOGBANI. It is Joe Bloggs there...
I'm retired. There's a nap for that... - Harvey
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Thanks man, turns out I watched that same exact video. Totally wish I would've had your offer about a week ago. I just spent the entirety of this week cleaning up and tweaking my geo data (to the tune of 4million-ish cities) with all this new fancy ISO 3166 stuff. I have a about 3.5k off the wall places I have no real clue wtf their proper M49 code is though. I ended up using some private ones I found off of an XML feed on unicode.org. Just out of curiosity, how are you naming your "regional" table that contains states, provinces, etc? I can't call mine State and I don't think Province will apply to every country in the world. Oh the joys of making an international app.
Jeremy Falcon wrote:
how are you naming your "regional" table
Subcountry. A few years ago we developed scripts to import and clean geo-data from several sources. Cities, subcountries, countries, regions, continents. The lot. PITA.
cheers Chris Maunder
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Jeremy Falcon wrote:
So, let's say I want to store the address - including country - for a user in a database who lives in Scotland. Should I now be saying: John Doe, XYZ, in the friggin United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland? ...
The information that I have says that John Doe does not exist in the UKOGBANI. It is Joe Bloggs there...
I'm retired. There's a nap for that... - Harvey
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So here I am updating a list of a countries in a database I'm working on (fun stuff) to be all recent and fancy etc. I decided "hey, why not get all official and go with ISO standards." Cool right? Well, therein makes one wonder. If you look at the list of ISO-3166-1[^] codes... UK is gone. So is Scotland, etc. You can search for
ISO 3166-2:GBon the page to see the entry I'm referring to. Now it's GB for the whole darn mess. I know the UK isn't a country per sé, but when I show a list of countries as a selection on a form in a webpage and it doesn't say something like United Kingdom or Scotland and just a blanket "United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland" in a select box that means everything and the kitchen sink, I can't help but think WTF. So, let's say I want to store the address - including country - for a user in a database who lives in Scotland. Should I now be saying: John Doe, XYZ, in the friggin United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland? Seems kinda silly to not just say Scotland, right?Jeremy Falcon
I note that both France and Germany are on the ISO 3166 maintenance agency (see [ISO 3166 - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISO\_3166#ISO\_3166\_Maintenance\_Agency) ). Could Brexit have something to do with it? :laugh:
If you have an important point to make, don't try to be subtle or clever. Use a pile driver. Hit the point once. Then come back and hit it again. Then hit it a third time - a tremendous whack. --Winston Churchill
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Thanks man, turns out I watched that same exact video. Totally wish I would've had your offer about a week ago. I just spent the entirety of this week cleaning up and tweaking my geo data (to the tune of 4million-ish cities) with all this new fancy ISO 3166 stuff. I have a about 3.5k off the wall places I have no real clue wtf their proper M49 code is though. I ended up using some private ones I found off of an XML feed on unicode.org. Just out of curiosity, how are you naming your "regional" table that contains states, provinces, etc? I can't call mine State and I don't think Province will apply to every country in the world. Oh the joys of making an international app.
"State" or "State/region" seems to be in common use. As you say, there is no one word used by all countries - "county" in the UK, "department" in France, etc - but "state" is pretty much universally recognised, I think. Likewise, "Zip code" seems also to be gaining universal acceptance, though many places still prefer "Post code", so maybe "Zip/Post code" is better for that. Only thing you can be sure if is that no matter what you do, someone will be upset....
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So here I am updating a list of a countries in a database I'm working on (fun stuff) to be all recent and fancy etc. I decided "hey, why not get all official and go with ISO standards." Cool right? Well, therein makes one wonder. If you look at the list of ISO-3166-1[^] codes... UK is gone. So is Scotland, etc. You can search for
ISO 3166-2:GBon the page to see the entry I'm referring to. Now it's GB for the whole darn mess. I know the UK isn't a country per sé, but when I show a list of countries as a selection on a form in a webpage and it doesn't say something like United Kingdom or Scotland and just a blanket "United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland" in a select box that means everything and the kitchen sink, I can't help but think WTF. So, let's say I want to store the address - including country - for a user in a database who lives in Scotland. Should I now be saying: John Doe, XYZ, in the friggin United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland? Seems kinda silly to not just say Scotland, right?Jeremy Falcon
.uk wasn't actually our top-level domain name, it was used unofficially and has now been adopted, the UK's real TLD was .gb so it makes sense the ISO codes also use GB. You would never store "Scotland", "England" etc as someone's country as they are not sovereign states and only sovereign states are globally recognised as countries. The only time you'd store England as someone's country is if you are an American developing an American website and think that England and the UK are the same thing.
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"State" or "State/region" seems to be in common use. As you say, there is no one word used by all countries - "county" in the UK, "department" in France, etc - but "state" is pretty much universally recognised, I think. Likewise, "Zip code" seems also to be gaining universal acceptance, though many places still prefer "Post code", so maybe "Zip/Post code" is better for that. Only thing you can be sure if is that no matter what you do, someone will be upset....
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It would be an Inverness kiss in that case. Except he's actually very peaceful outside his verbal skills.
Wrong is evil and must be defeated. - Jeff Ello
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.uk wasn't actually our top-level domain name, it was used unofficially and has now been adopted, the UK's real TLD was .gb so it makes sense the ISO codes also use GB. You would never store "Scotland", "England" etc as someone's country as they are not sovereign states and only sovereign states are globally recognised as countries. The only time you'd store England as someone's country is if you are an American developing an American website and think that England and the UK are the same thing.
Not just Americans I can assure you.
Wrong is evil and must be defeated. - Jeff Ello
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Jeremy Falcon wrote:
how are you naming your "regional" table
Subcountry. A few years ago we developed scripts to import and clean geo-data from several sources. Cities, subcountries, countries, regions, continents. The lot. PITA.
cheers Chris Maunder
Chris Maunder wrote:
Subcountry
I called mine province, but I like the idea of making it more generic.
Chris Maunder wrote:
A few years ago we developed scripts to import and clean geo-data from several sources. Cities, subcountries, countries, regions, continents. The lot. PITA.
If I ever have to do this again for this DB, I'm gonna follow suit.
Jeremy Falcon
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"State" or "State/region" seems to be in common use. As you say, there is no one word used by all countries - "county" in the UK, "department" in France, etc - but "state" is pretty much universally recognised, I think. Likewise, "Zip code" seems also to be gaining universal acceptance, though many places still prefer "Post code", so maybe "Zip/Post code" is better for that. Only thing you can be sure if is that no matter what you do, someone will be upset....
A_Griffin wrote:
Only thing you can be sure if is that no matter what you do, someone will be upset....
:laugh: Wise words.
Jeremy Falcon
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Not just Americans I can assure you.
Wrong is evil and must be defeated. - Jeff Ello
Yes, the majority of English people don't know the difference either.
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.uk wasn't actually our top-level domain name, it was used unofficially and has now been adopted, the UK's real TLD was .gb so it makes sense the ISO codes also use GB. You would never store "Scotland", "England" etc as someone's country as they are not sovereign states and only sovereign states are globally recognised as countries. The only time you'd store England as someone's country is if you are an American developing an American website and think that England and the UK are the same thing.
In reality, when you send snail-mail, the address could be something like: Mr Richard Roe 123 The High Street Trotters Bottom near Pigs End Middx HA8 8UT UK or Jock MacTavish The Brewery Glasgow GU9 7TR Scotland (optional - you would never say England but might specify the smaller places or they get pissed off that England supports them and the English don't give a crap about them. Actually, no one who lives inside the M25 even acknowledges that anyone lives outside of it) UK Note that Middx is short for Middlesex which the Royal Mail do not recognise and is not on maps any more but everyone still uses it.