The Masters Of Spin Are At It Again
-
i was going to post this article with the title, "scott mcnealy is a whiny bitch" we had a thread about that EDC pronouncement a coupla days back, my take on it is that the EDC had to have been paid by sun, the numbers didn't add up. most programmers use several languages to get their job done, EDC used the numbers for "devs who use java as a part of their job" and compared it to "the number of c++ programmers" (the quotation marks are mine, not from the article) java runs fine on dedicated devices (like phones) and fine on high end servers, but on the desktop it runs like a stoned turtle. ms's jvm from a few years back was far better than sun's from the same time frame, but it still ran like crap. two things scott mcnealy wants is to sell hardware and be the richest man on earth. he's doing one, but probably wont ever be the other -John
I will stop being an rabid MS 'apologist' when everyone realizes that Netscape, Sun, Oracle, US Justice Department and State Justice Departments are just out to make a buck like MS. (How much money was made off the tobacco company lawsuits? How much actually went to what they said it would go to?) Welcome to the Dark Side John. :cool: Tim Smith Descartes Systems Sciences, Inc.
-
Check this out According to Evans Data Corporation, the Java programming language will surpass both Microsoft's Visual Basic and C++ next year to become the most popular language in use by developers. Software based on Java technology continues to roll out from hundreds of companies, including many of the most recognized names in the industry. I am getting scared. I don't mind Java surpassing VB but i don't want it to surpass c++.:(( It gives me a headache. :mad:
Prediction: Five years from now all those Java guys will be scrambling around trying to learn C++.
-
Prediction: Five years from now all those Java guys will be scrambling around trying to learn C++.
I'd be thinking the Java guys will find C# much more palatable - especially with the effort MS is putting into JUMP. cheers, Chris Maunder (CodeProject)
-
I'd be thinking the Java guys will find C# much more palatable - especially with the effort MS is putting into JUMP. cheers, Chris Maunder (CodeProject)
I'm afraid that Java guys will stay with Java, VB guys will stay with VB, and C++ guys will stay with C++. Who is going to use C#? I vote pro drink X|
-
I'd be thinking the Java guys will find C# much more palatable - especially with the effort MS is putting into JUMP. cheers, Chris Maunder (CodeProject)
I think a lot of Java guys would rather stop programming, than use anything from MS... - Anders Money talks, but all mine ever says is "Goodbye!"
-
I'm afraid that Java guys will stay with Java, VB guys will stay with VB, and C++ guys will stay with C++. Who is going to use C#? I vote pro drink X|
All the web guys is probably going to use C#. And I also think a lot of C++ guys are going to use C# for GUI... - Anders Money talks, but all mine ever says is "Goodbye!"
-
I think a lot of Java guys would rather stop programming, than use anything from MS... - Anders Money talks, but all mine ever says is "Goodbye!"
-
I'm afraid that Java guys will stay with Java, VB guys will stay with VB, and C++ guys will stay with C++. Who is going to use C#? I vote pro drink X|
-
I'd be thinking the Java guys will find C# much more palatable - especially with the effort MS is putting into JUMP. cheers, Chris Maunder (CodeProject)
I'm open minded. As soon as I see a large complex app written in C# that runs as fast as a C++ app, and which has a well designed, user friendly UI, I'll believe. My prediction is based on my certain belief that the public may be happy to use slow, clunky web based apps for a while, but sooner or later, customer discontent is going to force a rewrite to the desktop and that rewrite will probably be in some flavor of C++ (for large apps, VB for small apps). :)
-
I think a lot of Java guys would rather stop programming, than use anything from MS... - Anders Money talks, but all mine ever says is "Goodbye!"
Thats why I just said C++, not Visual C++ :)
-
Check this out According to Evans Data Corporation, the Java programming language will surpass both Microsoft's Visual Basic and C++ next year to become the most popular language in use by developers. Software based on Java technology continues to roll out from hundreds of companies, including many of the most recognized names in the industry. I am getting scared. I don't mind Java surpassing VB but i don't want it to surpass c++.:(( It gives me a headache. :mad:
Hello, the codegurus around the world.;) I guess that this author might get the money from Sun in order to give some C++ developers some threat. Microsoft can't use the latest JVM on its product including Windows XP. MSF uses just JVM for JDK1.0.4 (?), so some code of Java applet will not work on IE6.0 of Windows XP. As a result, the user of Windows XP have to download the latest JVM from somewhere. IBM, Oracle and the others are competitors to MSF, so they never use VB or VC++ for their product. They only have the option of "Java" even though GUI of Java runs too slow and the user of Oracle database complains about Java functionality. To be sure, Java tends to dominate the language for the cellar phone market like Japanese NTT Docomo. This is mainly because MSF is behind Java capability for the cellar phone's requirement. Anyway, as long as MSF dominates the OS of the desktop, MSF has some competitive advantage to kick Java off the desktop world for a while. Have a nice day!
-Masaaki Onishi-
-
I will stop being an rabid MS 'apologist' when everyone realizes that Netscape, Sun, Oracle, US Justice Department and State Justice Departments are just out to make a buck like MS. (How much money was made off the tobacco company lawsuits? How much actually went to what they said it would go to?) Welcome to the Dark Side John. :cool: Tim Smith Descartes Systems Sciences, Inc.
to make a buck like MS more like to make a buck off MS i'm a firm believer that the antitrust suit would not have happened if MS had been paying their dandgeld to the DC moneywhores. if there had been an MSPAC pumping some portion of Microsoft's billions inside the beltway then Sun, AOL and Oracle would have had to put up much more money to sick the DOJ on MS. I'm waiting for the companion piece from Jim "look what MS did to my company" Barkesdale. ;)
i admit my biases: i am specialized in ms products, so my bread and butter comes with their continued success. i just hate that the corporate wars are being waged using the executive branch of our government. -John
-
I'm open minded. As soon as I see a large complex app written in C# that runs as fast as a C++ app, and which has a well designed, user friendly UI, I'll believe. My prediction is based on my certain belief that the public may be happy to use slow, clunky web based apps for a while, but sooner or later, customer discontent is going to force a rewrite to the desktop and that rewrite will probably be in some flavor of C++ (for large apps, VB for small apps). :)
-
I'm open minded. As soon as I see a large complex app written in C# that runs as fast as a C++ app, and which has a well designed, user friendly UI, I'll believe. My prediction is based on my certain belief that the public may be happy to use slow, clunky web based apps for a while, but sooner or later, customer discontent is going to force a rewrite to the desktop and that rewrite will probably be in some flavor of C++ (for large apps, VB for small apps). :)
Just curious... :) Why do you need to see one large, complex app do everything in order to be convinced? The UI pieces are straight windows with a little wrapping to make it fit in the .NET framework. No speed problems there (unless you get some inhuman user that can move and click faster than the OS can redraw a window.) As far as being well-designed and user-friendly, that's up the the programmer, not the framework or language (at least in this case). In fact, the ease of adding the more complex controls makes me think that it is more likely for an individual developer to have user-friendly UI in a C# app, than in a traditional C++ app. I've been using VC++ for almost 4 years professionally, and it's been my absolute favorite language for at least that long. But, I finished my first C# Windows (not web-based) app yesterday (it only took 1 day). It is a game of "Reversi", and works just as well and as quickly as the C++ version would have. In the process of writing it, I learned quite a bit about the .NET structure -- and I can't help but think that I'll be using it again for something more important. ;) It appears to be (at least in part) a well thought out object oriented wrapper to the APIs available in Windows. John
-
Just curious... :) Why do you need to see one large, complex app do everything in order to be convinced? The UI pieces are straight windows with a little wrapping to make it fit in the .NET framework. No speed problems there (unless you get some inhuman user that can move and click faster than the OS can redraw a window.) As far as being well-designed and user-friendly, that's up the the programmer, not the framework or language (at least in this case). In fact, the ease of adding the more complex controls makes me think that it is more likely for an individual developer to have user-friendly UI in a C# app, than in a traditional C++ app. I've been using VC++ for almost 4 years professionally, and it's been my absolute favorite language for at least that long. But, I finished my first C# Windows (not web-based) app yesterday (it only took 1 day). It is a game of "Reversi", and works just as well and as quickly as the C++ version would have. In the process of writing it, I learned quite a bit about the .NET structure -- and I can't help but think that I'll be using it again for something more important. ;) It appears to be (at least in part) a well thought out object oriented wrapper to the APIs available in Windows. John
The company I work for went down the road of Borland's Builder because someone was able to design a simple application "In half the time it took to do it in Visual C++". I think one of the real tests for C# is whether it can scale as well as a C++ application. "Harland Pepper, would you stop naming nuts" - Harland Pepper
-
The company I work for went down the road of Borland's Builder because someone was able to design a simple application "In half the time it took to do it in Visual C++". I think one of the real tests for C# is whether it can scale as well as a C++ application. "Harland Pepper, would you stop naming nuts" - Harland Pepper
You're right, that's something I'm waiting to find out myself. Choosing the right tool for the right job is always important. But the post I responded to seemed to be focusing on the UI, and I can't imagine that being an issue. John
-
I'd be thinking the Java guys will find C# much more palatable - especially with the effort MS is putting into JUMP. cheers, Chris Maunder (CodeProject)
Did you hear Don Box's keynote speech at Conference.NET? (available on the DDJ website). His words on JUMP were "Guaranteed, it will convert HelloWorld really well. For everything else, it will suck." :-D CodeGuy http://groups.yahoo.com/group/wtl
-
to make a buck like MS more like to make a buck off MS i'm a firm believer that the antitrust suit would not have happened if MS had been paying their dandgeld to the DC moneywhores. if there had been an MSPAC pumping some portion of Microsoft's billions inside the beltway then Sun, AOL and Oracle would have had to put up much more money to sick the DOJ on MS. I'm waiting for the companion piece from Jim "look what MS did to my company" Barkesdale. ;)
i admit my biases: i am specialized in ms products, so my bread and butter comes with their continued success. i just hate that the corporate wars are being waged using the executive branch of our government. -John
MS should have gone to the Congressional PIMP, he's the man ! http://www.theawfultruth.com/pimp/
-
Just curious... :) Why do you need to see one large, complex app do everything in order to be convinced? The UI pieces are straight windows with a little wrapping to make it fit in the .NET framework. No speed problems there (unless you get some inhuman user that can move and click faster than the OS can redraw a window.) As far as being well-designed and user-friendly, that's up the the programmer, not the framework or language (at least in this case). In fact, the ease of adding the more complex controls makes me think that it is more likely for an individual developer to have user-friendly UI in a C# app, than in a traditional C++ app. I've been using VC++ for almost 4 years professionally, and it's been my absolute favorite language for at least that long. But, I finished my first C# Windows (not web-based) app yesterday (it only took 1 day). It is a game of "Reversi", and works just as well and as quickly as the C++ version would have. In the process of writing it, I learned quite a bit about the .NET structure -- and I can't help but think that I'll be using it again for something more important. ;) It appears to be (at least in part) a well thought out object oriented wrapper to the APIs available in Windows. John
Well, the deal is this. I guess it does not really surprise me that you could write a desktop app with C# "as well and as quickly" as with C++. I mean, I would hope they had acheived at least that much. But that's not really what .net or C# are for is it? Or am I missing something? I thought that all this great new stuff was spcifically to produce web based apps. I mean, we can already produce desk top apps. Can't we? It is specifically the web stuff that I am referring to. Could I play your Reversi game (if it were web based )on the web as well as I could on my desktop? If not, why would I want a web version rather than your slick desktop version. I am just not convinced that users are going to want slow clunky web apps with bad interfaces, and I've seen none with good interfaces, just to save them the time it takes to install an app designed to run specifically on their hardware. And I don't think that they are going to buy the argument that it saved a lot of development time because it runs on everyone elses hardware too. I want it to take maximum advantage of the hardware I spent so much money on. I don't care about the guy down the street trying to use it on a Mac or a Linux machine or whatever. Its the vision thing, I suppose I just do not get it.:)
-
Did you hear Don Box's keynote speech at Conference.NET? (available on the DDJ website). His words on JUMP were "Guaranteed, it will convert HelloWorld really well. For everything else, it will suck." :-D CodeGuy http://groups.yahoo.com/group/wtl
He's a ray of sunshine, isn't he :D I spoke to Tony Goodhew about it last week so I'll get my notes together and write up something about it. Short version is that it will work really well on J++ but will degrade in performance as you move to other implementations. No one's gonna know till it's out, or till be see beta versions (early next year) cheers, Chris Maunder (CodeProject)