Visual scripting engine/system- good or bad?
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Pros: Allows rapid experimentation/feedback loop Cons: Always something you want to do that the designers didn't think of
Well, that's relatively correct. however, such advanced visual scripting environments give remarkable tools to make the system more extensible. For example, designers have already implemented an approach that makes the users able to write their own nodes/(blocks of code).
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Well, that's relatively correct. however, such advanced visual scripting environments give remarkable tools to make the system more extensible. For example, designers have already implemented an approach that makes the users able to write their own nodes/(blocks of code).
Precisely so - the scripting / code block part is a work around for scenarios where the visual designer does not match to the problem space.
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Precisely so - the scripting / code block part is a work around for scenarios where the visual designer does not match to the problem space.
You've got a very good point! Usually, people tend to download, purchase and create plugins to fill the void, which is- of course, another workaround to use some tools that the designers FORGOT about.
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You've got a very good point! Usually, people tend to download, purchase and create plugins to fill the void, which is- of course, another workaround to use some tools that the designers FORGOT about.
In my experience a good approach is to have the designer generate code in the form of partial classes which the developer can override/augment with their own crafted code in their side of the partial classes. Many ETL designers and things like the EF designer work in this way.
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This system is extremely flexible and powerful as it provides the ability for designers to use virtually the full range of concepts and tools generally only available to programmers.
Introduction to Blueprints | Unreal Engine[^] Personally, I believe that visual scripting is truly beneficial and worths a try. In the example I mentioned I above, I referred to the blueprints system of unreal engine which gives game developers the ability to work on their projects without the need to write a single line of code. So what do you think, folks?
The concept has been tried multiple times, and most of us are still using a text-editor. That's because a text-editor is the superiour way to quickly edit a text, which still communicates more information in a few lines than most visualizations communicate in pages. It is a step in the wrong direction :)
Bastard Programmer from Hell :suss: If you can't read my code, try converting it here[^]
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Precisely so - the scripting / code block part is a work around for scenarios where the visual designer does not match to the problem space.
Yeah, that's always the way. Same as in SSIS (and probably all ETL systems). And also in a rule-based system I had to use a few years ago. All these graphical drag-and-drop purveyors are quick to say "never write another line of code". But then when you do have to write some code it's ten times more difficult.
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The concept has been tried multiple times, and most of us are still using a text-editor. That's because a text-editor is the superiour way to quickly edit a text, which still communicates more information in a few lines than most visualizations communicate in pages. It is a step in the wrong direction :)
Bastard Programmer from Hell :suss: If you can't read my code, try converting it here[^]
Hear! Hear! When writing must be done it can't be done graphically. Graphical systems impose too many limitations.
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The concept has been tried multiple times, and most of us are still using a text-editor. That's because a text-editor is the superiour way to quickly edit a text, which still communicates more information in a few lines than most visualizations communicate in pages. It is a step in the wrong direction :)
Bastard Programmer from Hell :suss: If you can't read my code, try converting it here[^]
Sometimes, the amount of work you need to dedicate to create something can be reduced by more than 90% if you use a visual scripting environment the right way. For example, when it comes to writing shaders, this fabulous materials editor that has been released by Epic Games, Rendering and Graphics, shows how useful visual scripting can be. Writing shaders using C++ (or any other language) may prove extremely troublesome compared to exploiting a visual scripting system.
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Sometimes, the amount of work you need to dedicate to create something can be reduced by more than 90% if you use a visual scripting environment the right way. For example, when it comes to writing shaders, this fabulous materials editor that has been released by Epic Games, Rendering and Graphics, shows how useful visual scripting can be. Writing shaders using C++ (or any other language) may prove extremely troublesome compared to exploiting a visual scripting system.
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Hear! Hear! When writing must be done it can't be done graphically. Graphical systems impose too many limitations.
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Was that intended for me?
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Sometimes, the amount of work you need to dedicate to create something can be reduced by more than 90% if you use a visual scripting environment the right way. For example, when it comes to writing shaders, this fabulous materials editor that has been released by Epic Games, Rendering and Graphics, shows how useful visual scripting can be. Writing shaders using C++ (or any other language) may prove extremely troublesome compared to exploiting a visual scripting system.
I have found that such tools address only the simplest tasks anyway -- the developers went after only the "low hanging fruit", when you don't need a tool to do those things to begin with! We need tools that help with the difficult tasks. Instead they take the easy things and make them simple -- "hey, we saved 90%" -- while not helping with the difficult tasks and actually making the difficult even more difficult to do in that framework/tool. And this still smells spammy to me.
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Particularly as I could be blind by then. :sigh:
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Quote:
This system is extremely flexible and powerful as it provides the ability for designers to use virtually the full range of concepts and tools generally only available to programmers.
Introduction to Blueprints | Unreal Engine[^] Personally, I believe that visual scripting is truly beneficial and worths a try. In the example I mentioned I above, I referred to the blueprints system of unreal engine which gives game developers the ability to work on their projects without the need to write a single line of code. So what do you think, folks?
It makes me think of people that builds homepages in Word. The code created is utterly horrible.
Wrong is evil and must be defeated. - Jeff Ello
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I think this smells of spam is what I think.
:confused: I do not think so. If you are even nowhere near game development, you must have heard from the unreal engine. (Otherwise check my sig link :-D Now that was real spam :rolleyes: )
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Quote:
This system is extremely flexible and powerful as it provides the ability for designers to use virtually the full range of concepts and tools generally only available to programmers.
Introduction to Blueprints | Unreal Engine[^] Personally, I believe that visual scripting is truly beneficial and worths a try. In the example I mentioned I above, I referred to the blueprints system of unreal engine which gives game developers the ability to work on their projects without the need to write a single line of code. So what do you think, folks?
In a lot of ways using a visual scripting editor is not too far removed from high level scripting and programming languages. It's really just another abstraction and most of the decent ones will behave in the following manner: (1) I start with the visual designer. (2) I then manually refactor or extend the code created by the designer. (3) I use visual designer again to add a high level function/module. (4) I go back to manually extending the code created by the visual designer at (3). If at point (4) I discover that the tool has refactored all my changes from (2) then it's a fail with regards to the visual designer as far as I am concerned. A decent visual designer will not refactor my code at (3).
“That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence.”
― Christopher Hitchens
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I have found that such tools address only the simplest tasks anyway -- the developers went after only the "low hanging fruit", when you don't need a tool to do those things to begin with! We need tools that help with the difficult tasks. Instead they take the easy things and make them simple -- "hey, we saved 90%" -- while not helping with the difficult tasks and actually making the difficult even more difficult to do in that framework/tool. And this still smells spammy to me.
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Was that intended for me?
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:confused: I do not think so. If you are even nowhere near game development, you must have heard from the unreal engine. (Otherwise check my sig link :-D Now that was real spam :rolleyes: )
Rage wrote:
If you are even nowhere near game development playing
It's enough! Apart from Unreal most games are based on its engine (and knowing the engine a game is based on gives a lot of insight on the mechanics and if it's worthy to be bought or not).
GCS d-- s-/++ a- C++++ U+++ P- L+@ E-- W++ N+ o+ K- w+++ O? M-- V? PS+ PE- Y+ PGP t+ 5? X R+++ tv-- b+(+++) DI+++ D++ G e++ h--- ++>+++ y+++* Weapons extension: ma- k++ F+2 X
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Quote:
This system is extremely flexible and powerful as it provides the ability for designers to use virtually the full range of concepts and tools generally only available to programmers.
Introduction to Blueprints | Unreal Engine[^] Personally, I believe that visual scripting is truly beneficial and worths a try. In the example I mentioned I above, I referred to the blueprints system of unreal engine which gives game developers the ability to work on their projects without the need to write a single line of code. So what do you think, folks?
Like Windows Workflow Foundation (WF) [^]. At first I was contrary because there is ALWAYS the need or reason to do things flexibly... experience taught me that it's still fundamental in about 30 to 40% of the cases and that having an easy, graphical, standard even if not flexible tool to quickly prototype functionalities and sequences can improve the productivity a lot. Think of the AI patterns of videogames, or massive online games with transactions and interactions between weapons, AI, effects, powers, passive abilities, resources and currencies all spread between millions of clients and a plethora of servers located across the world. A single bugfix, done only textually, could take weeks - if given a scalable way to prototype most actions with a 1:1 relationship between prototype and code it could take HOURS. I believe Digital Extremes uses an approach like this, as they are able to churn out an update a week and 3-4 hotfixes in hours - and most of their talk is about mechanics of the game.
GCS d-- s-/++ a- C++++ U+++ P- L+@ E-- W++ N+ o+ K- w+++ O? M-- V? PS+ PE- Y+ PGP t+ 5? X R+++ tv-- b+(+++) DI+++ D++ G e++ h--- ++>+++ y+++* Weapons extension: ma- k++ F+2 X