It just struck me
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Imagine writing code and end almost all written lines with semicolons....
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It just struck me that it must be difficult to be a programmer in a non-English-speaking country because all of the classes and function names in a given framework are in English, so picking the correct class/method must be somewhat difficult.
".45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly" - JSOP, 2010
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You can never have too much ammo - unless you're swimming, or on fire. - JSOP, 2010
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When you pry the gun from my cold dead hands, be careful - the barrel will be very hot. - JSOP, 2013I have worked with Russian programmers for 20+ years... Fortunately in Computer Science, English is their second language! But, you are 100% right. We have a lot of Abbreviations, and weird ways of saying things. I tend to use kinda/sorta which aren't words, lol. So the team is told early on to ASK about ANYTHING they are not clear about, and that OUR RUSSIAN would be much worse than their English. Early on, a piece of code came back with a variable: Svertka in it... It came into a code review, and it was used in a lot of places. They put the definition in the code, and moved on. But it has led to many funny situations...
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Imagine how long the class names would be!!!!!
But you could put all of the comments into the class name!
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CodeWraith wrote:
The customers are. It's hard enough to get them to specify their domain without using 20 different names for the same thing while each name they use has at least 20 different meanings. Getting them to do that in some obscure language, like English, is near impossible.
:D Sorry, but that is part of design and is not a problem; it is the devs' responsibility to make sure that he understands the domain of the user. The user cannot be tasked to model his data-structure, so the dev has to make those decisisons, and has to communicate that to the user in a way he/she can verify the idea. Writing code is the easy part of programming :)
Bastard Programmer from Hell :suss: If you can't read my code, try converting it here[^] "If you just follow the bacon Eddy, wherever it leads you, then you won't have to think about politics." -- Some Bell.
Eddy Vluggen wrote:
The user cannot be tasked to model his data-structure, so the dev has to make those decisisons, and has to communicate that to the user in a way he/she can verify the idea.
That, right there, is the most difficult part of my job. I've come up with a rule about it: people don't know what they want until they see what they don't want. The only way to get technical direction out of non-techies is to do iterations of what they are asking for and show them, until they get an idea of how their ideas work out in reality and get a sense of what they really want. Sitting around a meeting table talking about what's needed is just the first step to showing them what they don't want.
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John Simmons / outlaw programmer wrote:
so picking the correct class/method must be someone difficult.
I'd have probably used the word "somewhat" in that sentence. However, given that I was born and raised in a "non-English-speaking country", I could be wrong. Oh wait, I did learn everything in English from Kindergarten all the way up to my Masters. I still think that I could be wrong, because your English must clearly be superior as you're from 'Murica and all. Hope it's nice and warm in Texas. It's been a beautiful day here down under. :)
Rajesh R Subramanian wrote:
I still think that I could be wrong, because your English must clearly be superior as you're from 'Murica and all.
Texas was a "foreign" country, and it still shows :)
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I rarely 5 a lounge post. This is one of those that deserve it. Interesting article.
".45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly" - JSOP, 2010
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You can never have too much ammo - unless you're swimming, or on fire. - JSOP, 2010
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When you pry the gun from my cold dead hands, be careful - the barrel will be very hot. - JSOP, 2013I agree, that was a very interesting perspective. That said, as someone who is bilingual (English and Malayalam) and who can understand 2 other languages (50% fluency), I am surprised that people find English to be hard. To me, it seems to be one of the simplest languages in the world.
Nish Nishant Consultant Software Architect Ganymede Software Solutions LLC www.ganymedesoftwaresolutions.com
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Here's a Russian perspective: The language of programming[^]
Thank you. :thumbsup:
Nish Nishant Consultant Software Architect Ganymede Software Solutions LLC www.ganymedesoftwaresolutions.com
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Au contraire, I hate it when programs or Windows are in Dutch, but for 'normal' users things are different of course, always amazes me how bad some people are at speaking English :-\ But bonus points for thinking about foreign people (o dear, now a track of Foreigner is playing again in my head, you're as cold as ice etc. etc.)
RickZeeland wrote:
always amazes me how bad some people are at speaking English
Back in real life (i.e., as a chemist) it was always understood that the international language of science is broken English. By and large, the domination of English is probably a consequence of it not shielding itself from "foreign influences" - some "schmucky" places think protecting their language ("think: surrender monkey") will maintain its strength. On the contrary - it is mercifully hurry its long-overdue demise. Aside from the crazy spelling and other stuff, it's actually a rather welcoming.
"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein
"If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you are seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010
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That's nothing, long ago I had to deal with VB6 software in Japanese ! We usually referred to those characters as 'flattened mosquitoes' :-\
RickZeeland wrote:
That's nothing, long ago I had to deal with VB6 software in Japanese !
That's awful! How did you manage with understanding VB6?
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Eddy Vluggen wrote:
it is the devs' responsibility to make sure that he understands the domain of the user
Good to know. How far can I go to accomplish that? "Find out what he knows, and then take care of him!"
Eddy Vluggen wrote:
so the dev has to make those decisisons, and has to communicate that to the user in a way he/she can verify the idea
Yes, based on what what we got out of him in the first place. I have a customer who has some problems overlooking the consequences of the things he demanded to get. What do you think would happen if I took the liberty to invent new names whereever I could?
I have lived with several Zen masters - all of them were cats. His last invention was an evil Lasagna. It didn't kill anyone, and it actually tasted pretty good.
This thread makes me want to invent a language called Bede, written in Old English. The Icelanders will be so confused!
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It just struck me that it must be difficult to be a programmer in a non-English-speaking country because all of the classes and function names in a given framework are in English, so picking the correct class/method must be somewhat difficult.
".45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly" - JSOP, 2010
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You can never have too much ammo - unless you're swimming, or on fire. - JSOP, 2010
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When you pry the gun from my cold dead hands, be careful - the barrel will be very hot. - JSOP, 2013 -
It just struck me that it must be difficult to be a programmer in a non-English-speaking country because all of the classes and function names in a given framework are in English, so picking the correct class/method must be somewhat difficult.
".45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly" - JSOP, 2010
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You can never have too much ammo - unless you're swimming, or on fire. - JSOP, 2010
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When you pry the gun from my cold dead hands, be careful - the barrel will be very hot. - JSOP, 2013Don't worry, in Mexico we've mastered technicall English like the vocabulary used in every (old)VCR user's guide, TV warranties, and every other household appliances that come from our northern neighbors. It is just recently that the authorities ruled that all user's manuals must come with a mandatory Spannish translation and to those of us involved with technology, English is our second language. BTW: A trilingual is a person who speaks three languages, a bilingual is a person who speaks two languages, a person who only her language is an american! (Just kidding no offense) AND WE ARE NOT PAYING FOR THAT F(/&%KING WALL!!!
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They don't call it a programming "language" for nothing! :laugh: And in my experience, most American programmers/developers don't speak English, use proper grammar, or know how to spell, either. And I are one!
"Newer" is NOT automatically better, only Different. (And more complex and bug ridden when it comes to all of the "boutique" languages / frameworks out there)
Ed Aymami wrote:
And in my experience, most American programmers/developers don't speak English, use proper grammar, or know how to spell, either.
Sure we do! You just have to set the compilation flag to "Southern."
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RickZeeland wrote:
That's nothing, long ago I had to deal with VB6 software in Japanese !
That's awful! How did you manage with understanding VB6?
Same as when you get poorly documented source code, just trial and error, takes a bit longer but eventually I always figure it out :-\
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Ed Aymami wrote:
And in my experience, most American programmers/developers don't speak English, use proper grammar, or know how to spell, either.
Sure we do! You just have to set the compilation flag to "Southern."
No, they all were from New England and the West Coast. Just reading their resume's was torture! :cool: :laugh:
There's nothing wrong with grits (girls raised in the south) either.
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Don't worry, in Mexico we've mastered technicall English like the vocabulary used in every (old)VCR user's guide, TV warranties, and every other household appliances that come from our northern neighbors. It is just recently that the authorities ruled that all user's manuals must come with a mandatory Spannish translation and to those of us involved with technology, English is our second language. BTW: A trilingual is a person who speaks three languages, a bilingual is a person who speaks two languages, a person who only her language is an american! (Just kidding no offense) AND WE ARE NOT PAYING FOR THAT F(/&%KING WALL!!!
Al Escobar wrote:
AND WE ARE NOT PAYING FOR THAT F(/&%KING WALL!!!
I don't care who pays for it, as long as it gets built.
".45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly" - JSOP, 2010
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You can never have too much ammo - unless you're swimming, or on fire. - JSOP, 2010
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When you pry the gun from my cold dead hands, be careful - the barrel will be very hot. - JSOP, 2013 -
No, they all were from New England and the West Coast. Just reading their resume's was torture! :cool: :laugh:
There's nothing wrong with grits (girls raised in the south) either.
Ed Aymami wrote:
There's nothing wrong with grits (girls raised in the south) either.
You haven't spent enough time in the South :) Bless their hearts...
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Al Escobar wrote:
AND WE ARE NOT PAYING FOR THAT F(/&%KING WALL!!!
I don't care who pays for it, as long as it gets built.
".45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly" - JSOP, 2010
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You can never have too much ammo - unless you're swimming, or on fire. - JSOP, 2010
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When you pry the gun from my cold dead hands, be careful - the barrel will be very hot. - JSOP, 2013Dear Uncle Sam: Sure, you can build any wall you want over the borderline as long as it is built OVER the surface level because we RULE the underground. We've built many tunnels under your present wall or any future wall you are planning to build over the future (as longe as uncle Scrooge McTrump gets the funding for that from american law-obedient tax payers). We have tunnels all over the place, heck! er even have one that ends way down Scrooge's arse!! And are currently working on one close to your (rear) end.
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Dear Uncle Sam: Sure, you can build any wall you want over the borderline as long as it is built OVER the surface level because we RULE the underground. We've built many tunnels under your present wall or any future wall you are planning to build over the future (as longe as uncle Scrooge McTrump gets the funding for that from american law-obedient tax payers). We have tunnels all over the place, heck! er even have one that ends way down Scrooge's arse!! And are currently working on one close to your (rear) end.
If you want to persist in posting political stuff, use the soapbox.
".45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly" - JSOP, 2010
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You can never have too much ammo - unless you're swimming, or on fire. - JSOP, 2010
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When you pry the gun from my cold dead hands, be careful - the barrel will be very hot. - JSOP, 2013 -
It just struck me that it must be difficult to be a programmer in a non-English-speaking country because all of the classes and function names in a given framework are in English, so picking the correct class/method must be somewhat difficult.
".45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly" - JSOP, 2010
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You can never have too much ammo - unless you're swimming, or on fire. - JSOP, 2010
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When you pry the gun from my cold dead hands, be careful - the barrel will be very hot. - JSOP, 2013not just English but American-English, which I accepted long ago, but becomes a pain when other developers decide to create classes and functions with British English when they clearly know that system libaries will be using the American spelling. Color / Colour. Basic coding, keep the format similar to the rest of the code you working with.
