It just struck me
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They don't call it a programming "language" for nothing! :laugh: And in my experience, most American programmers/developers don't speak English, use proper grammar, or know how to spell, either. And I are one!
"Newer" is NOT automatically better, only Different. (And more complex and bug ridden when it comes to all of the "boutique" languages / frameworks out there)
Ed Aymami wrote:
And in my experience, most American programmers/developers don't speak English, use proper grammar, or know how to spell, either.
Sure we do! You just have to set the compilation flag to "Southern."
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RickZeeland wrote:
That's nothing, long ago I had to deal with VB6 software in Japanese !
That's awful! How did you manage with understanding VB6?
Same as when you get poorly documented source code, just trial and error, takes a bit longer but eventually I always figure it out :-\
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Ed Aymami wrote:
And in my experience, most American programmers/developers don't speak English, use proper grammar, or know how to spell, either.
Sure we do! You just have to set the compilation flag to "Southern."
No, they all were from New England and the West Coast. Just reading their resume's was torture! :cool: :laugh:
There's nothing wrong with grits (girls raised in the south) either.
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Don't worry, in Mexico we've mastered technicall English like the vocabulary used in every (old)VCR user's guide, TV warranties, and every other household appliances that come from our northern neighbors. It is just recently that the authorities ruled that all user's manuals must come with a mandatory Spannish translation and to those of us involved with technology, English is our second language. BTW: A trilingual is a person who speaks three languages, a bilingual is a person who speaks two languages, a person who only her language is an american! (Just kidding no offense) AND WE ARE NOT PAYING FOR THAT F(/&%KING WALL!!!
Al Escobar wrote:
AND WE ARE NOT PAYING FOR THAT F(/&%KING WALL!!!
I don't care who pays for it, as long as it gets built.
".45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly" - JSOP, 2010
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You can never have too much ammo - unless you're swimming, or on fire. - JSOP, 2010
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When you pry the gun from my cold dead hands, be careful - the barrel will be very hot. - JSOP, 2013 -
No, they all were from New England and the West Coast. Just reading their resume's was torture! :cool: :laugh:
There's nothing wrong with grits (girls raised in the south) either.
Ed Aymami wrote:
There's nothing wrong with grits (girls raised in the south) either.
You haven't spent enough time in the South :) Bless their hearts...
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Al Escobar wrote:
AND WE ARE NOT PAYING FOR THAT F(/&%KING WALL!!!
I don't care who pays for it, as long as it gets built.
".45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly" - JSOP, 2010
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You can never have too much ammo - unless you're swimming, or on fire. - JSOP, 2010
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When you pry the gun from my cold dead hands, be careful - the barrel will be very hot. - JSOP, 2013Dear Uncle Sam: Sure, you can build any wall you want over the borderline as long as it is built OVER the surface level because we RULE the underground. We've built many tunnels under your present wall or any future wall you are planning to build over the future (as longe as uncle Scrooge McTrump gets the funding for that from american law-obedient tax payers). We have tunnels all over the place, heck! er even have one that ends way down Scrooge's arse!! And are currently working on one close to your (rear) end.
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Dear Uncle Sam: Sure, you can build any wall you want over the borderline as long as it is built OVER the surface level because we RULE the underground. We've built many tunnels under your present wall or any future wall you are planning to build over the future (as longe as uncle Scrooge McTrump gets the funding for that from american law-obedient tax payers). We have tunnels all over the place, heck! er even have one that ends way down Scrooge's arse!! And are currently working on one close to your (rear) end.
If you want to persist in posting political stuff, use the soapbox.
".45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly" - JSOP, 2010
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You can never have too much ammo - unless you're swimming, or on fire. - JSOP, 2010
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When you pry the gun from my cold dead hands, be careful - the barrel will be very hot. - JSOP, 2013 -
It just struck me that it must be difficult to be a programmer in a non-English-speaking country because all of the classes and function names in a given framework are in English, so picking the correct class/method must be somewhat difficult.
".45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly" - JSOP, 2010
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You can never have too much ammo - unless you're swimming, or on fire. - JSOP, 2010
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When you pry the gun from my cold dead hands, be careful - the barrel will be very hot. - JSOP, 2013not just English but American-English, which I accepted long ago, but becomes a pain when other developers decide to create classes and functions with British English when they clearly know that system libaries will be using the American spelling. Color / Colour. Basic coding, keep the format similar to the rest of the code you working with.
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RickZeeland wrote:
always amazes me how bad some people are at speaking English
Back in real life (i.e., as a chemist) it was always understood that the international language of science is broken English. By and large, the domination of English is probably a consequence of it not shielding itself from "foreign influences" - some "schmucky" places think protecting their language ("think: surrender monkey") will maintain its strength. On the contrary - it is mercifully hurry its long-overdue demise. Aside from the crazy spelling and other stuff, it's actually a rather welcoming.
"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein
"If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you are seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010
Regarding "not shielding itself from 'foreign influences'": Old English was strongly influence by conquest. First by Old Norse (during the DaneLaw the Norse ruled most, sometimes all, of England). The roots of both languages were the same, but word inflection differed between the two. Middle English solved this by dropping almost all inflection. This was followed by two doses of French: Norman French, then Parisian French. As for "crazy spelling": it was actually phonetically correct ... about 600 years ago based on the local dialect of the first Englishman to own a printing press.
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Imagine writing code and end almost all written lines with semicolons....
Not too hard to imagine, as most will have experienced VB and it s CRLF statement ending :) Also doesn't conflict with ASCII, which German text does.
Bastard Programmer from Hell :suss: If you can't read my code, try converting it here[^] "If you just follow the bacon Eddy, wherever it leads you, then you won't have to think about politics." -- Some Bell.
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Eddy Vluggen wrote:
The user cannot be tasked to model his data-structure, so the dev has to make those decisisons, and has to communicate that to the user in a way he/she can verify the idea.
That, right there, is the most difficult part of my job. I've come up with a rule about it: people don't know what they want until they see what they don't want. The only way to get technical direction out of non-techies is to do iterations of what they are asking for and show them, until they get an idea of how their ideas work out in reality and get a sense of what they really want. Sitting around a meeting table talking about what's needed is just the first step to showing them what they don't want.
StatementTerminator wrote:
That, right there, is the most difficult part of my job. I've come up with a rule about it: people don't know what they want until they see what they don't want.
Yes, modelling and analyzing is not something that is very common anymore; most build agile and change their ideas along the way, guessing their way to a design. I prefer to plan ahead, and waterfall my way to a list of definitions. It takes longer to get started with the actual coding, but I cannot imagine to work without.
Bastard Programmer from Hell :suss: If you can't read my code, try converting it here[^] "If you just follow the bacon Eddy, wherever it leads you, then you won't have to think about politics." -- Some Bell.
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RickZeeland wrote:
always amazes me how bad some people are at speaking English
Back in real life (i.e., as a chemist) it was always understood that the international language of science is broken English. By and large, the domination of English is probably a consequence of it not shielding itself from "foreign influences" - some "schmucky" places think protecting their language ("think: surrender monkey") will maintain its strength. On the contrary - it is mercifully hurry its long-overdue demise. Aside from the crazy spelling and other stuff, it's actually a rather welcoming.
"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein
"If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you are seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010
To fully appreciate the inaccuracy of this comment, imagine a linguist with no programming experience trying to explain the issues with php.
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It just struck me that it must be difficult to be a programmer in a non-English-speaking country because all of the classes and function names in a given framework are in English, so picking the correct class/method must be somewhat difficult.
".45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly" - JSOP, 2010
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You can never have too much ammo - unless you're swimming, or on fire. - JSOP, 2010
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When you pry the gun from my cold dead hands, be careful - the barrel will be very hot. - JSOP, 2013My mother language is Spanish and it's very helpful when my variable names stand out in the middle of English names: int contador = 1; float precioFinal = 0.0m; // cheers!!
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Regarding "not shielding itself from 'foreign influences'": Old English was strongly influence by conquest. First by Old Norse (during the DaneLaw the Norse ruled most, sometimes all, of England). The roots of both languages were the same, but word inflection differed between the two. Middle English solved this by dropping almost all inflection. This was followed by two doses of French: Norman French, then Parisian French. As for "crazy spelling": it was actually phonetically correct ... about 600 years ago based on the local dialect of the first Englishman to own a printing press.
Steven1218 wrote:
As for "crazy spelling": it was actually phonetically correct ... about 600 years ago based on the local dialect of the first Englishman to own a printing press.
Actually, as I understood it, until comparatively recent times, spelling was ad-hoc. Although not the first dictionary, Webster's Dictionary can be given some credit:
Webster completed his dictionary during his year abroad in 1825 in Paris, France, and at the University of Cambridge. His book contained seventy thousand words, of which twelve thousand had never appeared in a published dictionary before. As a spelling reformer, Webster believed that English spelling rules were unnecessarily complex, so his dictionary introduced American English spellings, replacing "colour" with "color", substituting "wagon" for "waggon", and printing "center" instead of "centre". He also added American words, like "skunk" and "squash", that did not appear in British dictionaries. At the age of seventy, Webster published his dictionary in 1828; it sold 2500 copies. In 1840, the second edition was published in two volumes.
Standardization of spelling, which does not attack the validity of your claim, is rather recent. The influence of frog-speech* may have much to do with too-many silent letters. * A language that didn't evolve past counting to 'sixty', having to go to 'sixty-ten' because seventy was just too much for them to comprehend.
"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein
"If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you are seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010
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To fully appreciate the inaccuracy of this comment, imagine a linguist with no programming experience trying to explain the issues with php.
The language of "the country formerly known as Vichy France" is dying. They'd not make protective laws if they weren't clearly observing the proto-carcass decaying. That's the kind of thing you do when you're desperate.
"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein
"If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you are seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010
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Ed Aymami wrote:
There's nothing wrong with grits (girls raised in the south) either.
You haven't spent enough time in the South :) Bless their hearts...
Almost all my life. I guess you forgot to "set the compilation flag to Southern" :-D And I have been married to a southern girl for 45+ years so I can assure you that I understand better than you can possibly imagine.
One never know for sure, do one? -Fats Waller
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NO thanks!!!! It's horrible, I'd rather forget I ever did it.... :-D
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NO thanks!!!! It's horrible, I'd rather forget I ever did it.... :-D
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The language of "the country formerly known as Vichy France" is dying. They'd not make protective laws if they weren't clearly observing the proto-carcass decaying. That's the kind of thing you do when you're desperate.
"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein
"If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you are seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010
I was more referring to your suggestion that English is so widespread due to any linguistic qualities. English spread because at a time when they had bigger ships and guns than most of the world, one of the most imperialistic and genocidal groups of people in history decided to set forth across the world and force everybody to work for them, and these people were certainly in no hurry to learn the languages of the locals they encountered. As for France's moves to keep their language "French", this is in no way a suggestion that the language is dying. French people, as well as people in various former French colonies are in no rush to stop speaking French. In fact ask any Frenchman and good luck convincing him that English is a superior alternative. All spoken languages naturally evolve over time, the change is artificially slowed if it's a written language, but no generation of any language speaker speaks the same as their parents did at their age. The French preservation efforts are basically the equivalent of refusing to sell T-shirts over size L to prevent people from getting overweight. But there are many dialects of French alone within the country of France, not to mention various dialects and Creoles in its many colonies. But since we were originally talking about programming, I would say English could possibly be the worst language to be required for second language speakers, because a grasp of syntax and grammar is not really required, just being able to spell the different terms in the programming language. And English is famous for its wildly unpredictable spelling. The only caveat to this is that apparently the world Boggle (or could be Scrabble) champion in English doesn't even know how to speak English, he just memorised the dictionary.
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I was more referring to your suggestion that English is so widespread due to any linguistic qualities. English spread because at a time when they had bigger ships and guns than most of the world, one of the most imperialistic and genocidal groups of people in history decided to set forth across the world and force everybody to work for them, and these people were certainly in no hurry to learn the languages of the locals they encountered. As for France's moves to keep their language "French", this is in no way a suggestion that the language is dying. French people, as well as people in various former French colonies are in no rush to stop speaking French. In fact ask any Frenchman and good luck convincing him that English is a superior alternative. All spoken languages naturally evolve over time, the change is artificially slowed if it's a written language, but no generation of any language speaker speaks the same as their parents did at their age. The French preservation efforts are basically the equivalent of refusing to sell T-shirts over size L to prevent people from getting overweight. But there are many dialects of French alone within the country of France, not to mention various dialects and Creoles in its many colonies. But since we were originally talking about programming, I would say English could possibly be the worst language to be required for second language speakers, because a grasp of syntax and grammar is not really required, just being able to spell the different terms in the programming language. And English is famous for its wildly unpredictable spelling. The only caveat to this is that apparently the world Boggle (or could be Scrabble) champion in English doesn't even know how to speak English, he just memorised the dictionary.
What a load of snail-turd! [poop d'escargot] France was quite the imperialist - and a bloody one at that. You do remember Napoleon? Ultimately, however, the English gave him the kick-in-the-ass he needed. By that time, the French gene-pool was reduced to drugs (and so it remains). English became the world language in recent years - heavily do to influences not of war but of people like the Beatles, Elvis Presley, and the like. Everyone wanted to learn English. Here are two superior qualities to English: (1) everyone is welcome in to the language and can contribute, and (2) the best stuff to read and listen to is in English. French is just a language of of the paranoid - having been the whipping boys for war for over a century (and stuck as to what comes after sixty-nine when counting), I can understand. Official list of names to pick from for children. Fines for using non-French words when a French equivalent exists. Hell, look here[[^](https://mashable.com/2013/01/29/france-renames-twitter-hashtag
/#_yJiw0SjQ8qd "New Window")]! They've simply taken the title of "losers" and extended it to all things they have do. As for spelling? Your spelling-champion blurb: it has no point and makes no sense whatsoever. The French equivalent of a dictionary appears to have been gone over by a random character generator. All the more reason why anyone would want to protect that corpse-in-waiting excuse for a language. Well - apparently you do. Who knows. Be it a few weeks, months, perhaps even a few years and you'll be the only one left."The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein
"If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you are seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010