Has anyone noticed
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And how many have died of gun violence since 9/11? [American deaths in terrorism vs. gun violence - CNN](https://www.cnn.com/2016/10/03/us/terrorism-gun-violence/index.html)
Is that all? Cars kill 40,000 a year: [^] Why not ban cars then?
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A_Griffin wrote:
while I think it self-evident that without guns there would be little threat form them
I already showed you with the data for Ireland and the UK that this is bunkum.
A_Griffin wrote:
99.9% of al Islamic terror attacks are in Muslim countries and aimed at other Muslims
And there are thousands of such attacks. We dont want those ten other attacks in the UK.
When are you going to understand that statistics, especially in the social sciences, prove mothing? Absolutely nothing. They are like the Bible - you can find something to back up any view you already hold. Even in the hard sciences they have to be treated with caution. As for you last idiotic statement ... it barely even deserves a reply.
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When are you going to understand that statistics, especially in the social sciences, prove mothing? Absolutely nothing. They are like the Bible - you can find something to back up any view you already hold. Even in the hard sciences they have to be treated with caution. As for you last idiotic statement ... it barely even deserves a reply.
Right, so now statistics are lies are they? Look, if you take away the gun you havent changed the underlying cause, which is WHY do people want to murder each other in the US. They will just use knives, or clubs, or whatever else they have. Dont change gun law, change the way Americans react, the way they think. That is the only way to reduce murders in the US.
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Right, so now statistics are lies are they? Look, if you take away the gun you havent changed the underlying cause, which is WHY do people want to murder each other in the US. They will just use knives, or clubs, or whatever else they have. Dont change gun law, change the way Americans react, the way they think. That is the only way to reduce murders in the US.
Well, that is what I said, Matt.
Quote:
The USA will have to find a way to live with [guns], somehow.
And surely I don't have to remind you of the old saying: "Lies, damned lies, and statistics" though I didn't actually say they were lies (though in some cases they may be). You are far too eager to jump to conclusions.
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Well, that is what I said, Matt.
Quote:
The USA will have to find a way to live with [guns], somehow.
And surely I don't have to remind you of the old saying: "Lies, damned lies, and statistics" though I didn't actually say they were lies (though in some cases they may be). You are far too eager to jump to conclusions.
The fact is that there is no correlation between gun ownership and murder rate.
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The fact is that there is no correlation between gun ownership and murder rate.
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Not on a 1-1 basis, when those are the only two variables being considered, yes Matt, I quite agree. If only life were so simple.
If only life were so simple, he leaves a patronising parting shot as if it is me who is ignoring reality! :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: The reality is there is no gun ownership to murder rate correlation. Period. And therefore it is NOT simple, so trying to represent this as a simplistic position is stupid.
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Austin package bombs - They're not blaming the bombs, they're blaming the bomber? Also, CNN keeps pushing the race card despite the fact that no specific race was being targeted. (Evidently, the bomber blew himself up early this morning, saving citizens the cost of a lengthy trial, followed by lifetime support in terms of shelter and food.) Maryland school shooting - An armed resource officer shot and killed the 17-year old shooter. No mention by the state-run media that a) a 17 year old isn't permitted to own/possess a handgun, and b) that an armed school employee prevented anyone from being killed. A blogger in the UK posted a poll asking people to select the biggest danger to the UK. You could chose BREXIT, Russia, Far-right extremists, and Islam. 70% of the voters picked Islam, and the blogger claims that bots and far-right extremists were responsible for skewing the poll results. When asked if she would accept the results if it was proven that no bots were identified, she said "No". What have we learned from this? 0) The media is trying to start a race war. 1) "Gun control" isn't about "guns", it's about "control". 2) Liberals don't like it when their poll results don't produce the expected/desired outcome.
".45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly" - JSOP, 2010
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You can never have too much ammo - unless you're swimming, or on fire. - JSOP, 2010
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When you pry the gun from my cold dead hands, be careful - the barrel will be very hot. - JSOP, 2013John Simmons / outlaw programmer wrote:
A blogger in the UK posted a poll asking people to select the biggest danger to the UK. You could chose BREXIT, Russia, Far-right extremists, and Islam. 70% of the voters picked Islam, and the blogger claims that bots and far-right extremists were responsible for skewing the poll results. When asked if she would accept the results if it was proven that no bots were identified, she said "No".
Don't worry, Tony Blair is looking into that one.
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Right, so now statistics are lies are they? Look, if you take away the gun you havent changed the underlying cause, which is WHY do people want to murder each other in the US. They will just use knives, or clubs, or whatever else they have. Dont change gun law, change the way Americans react, the way they think. That is the only way to reduce murders in the US.
Munchies_Matt wrote:
Look, if you take away the gun you havent changed the underlying cause, which is WHY do people want to murder each other in the US.
[George Carlin - List of people who ought to be killed](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tVlkxrNlp10) Because most people in the US fit into one or more of these categories? :)
Ad astra - both ways!
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Is that all? Cars kill 40,000 a year: [^] Why not ban cars then?
Cars don't kill people. People kill people ;P At the end, Islamic terrorism should be the least of US government concerns. There are much bigger problems to fix. Putting in place a Muslim ban is purely ideological. Banning a group of people for no real reason is purely ideological. Ideologies lead to fascism.
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Cars don't kill people. People kill people ;P At the end, Islamic terrorism should be the least of US government concerns. There are much bigger problems to fix. Putting in place a Muslim ban is purely ideological. Banning a group of people for no real reason is purely ideological. Ideologies lead to fascism.
The Centrist wrote:
Cars don't kill people. People kill people
Guns dont kill people, people kill people. ;P Re muslims, if one smartie in a bowl was poisonous would you eat any? The problem is, and you might not know this, that in a survey in the UK 30% or muslims expressed some kind of support for islamic terror acts in the UK. This is very worrying, because it means they are not reporting their fellow muslims to authorities when they plan terror attacks. The main problem with islam though is that it is fundamentally incompatible with western values. It must cause them immense stress to live in the west, and it causes us stress when the do, because we do not agree on so many things, and find so many things about each others culture disagreeable, and even abhorrent. The two cultures should therefore not mix. Anyway, guns in the US. The problem is they like to kill each other. Take away their guns and they will use knives, which is what happens in the UK.
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The Centrist wrote:
Cars don't kill people. People kill people
Guns dont kill people, people kill people. ;P Re muslims, if one smartie in a bowl was poisonous would you eat any? The problem is, and you might not know this, that in a survey in the UK 30% or muslims expressed some kind of support for islamic terror acts in the UK. This is very worrying, because it means they are not reporting their fellow muslims to authorities when they plan terror attacks. The main problem with islam though is that it is fundamentally incompatible with western values. It must cause them immense stress to live in the west, and it causes us stress when the do, because we do not agree on so many things, and find so many things about each others culture disagreeable, and even abhorrent. The two cultures should therefore not mix. Anyway, guns in the US. The problem is they like to kill each other. Take away their guns and they will use knives, which is what happens in the UK.
:thumbsup:
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The laws we already have would help if they were actively enforced. We could start by looking at returning the 500,000 individuals to the NICS database that Obama ordered removed (if they truly belong on the list of prohibited persons). Then we could make sure that people that belong on the list are put on it. Beyond that... "I prefer dangerous freedom over peaceful slavery" - Thomas Jefferson, 1787 ------------ "The liberties of our country, the freedom of our civil Constitution, are worth defending at all hazards; and it is our duty to defend them against all attacks. We have received them as a fair inheritance from our worthy ancestors: they purchased them for us with toil and danger and expense of treasure and blood, and transmitted them to us with care and diligence. It will bring an everlasting mark of infamy on the present generation, enlightened as it is, if we should suffer them to be wrested from us by violence without a struggle, or to be cheated out of them by the artifices of false and designing men." "If ever a time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in Government, our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots to prevent its ruin." - Samuel Adams
".45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly" - JSOP, 2010
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You can never have too much ammo - unless you're swimming, or on fire. - JSOP, 2010
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When you pry the gun from my cold dead hands, be careful - the barrel will be very hot. - JSOP, 2013John Simmons / outlaw programmer wrote:
If ever a time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in Government
As if that would ever happen! :laugh:
"These people looked deep within my soul and assigned me a number based on the order in which I joined." - Homer
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The Centrist wrote:
Cars don't kill people. People kill people
Guns dont kill people, people kill people. ;P Re muslims, if one smartie in a bowl was poisonous would you eat any? The problem is, and you might not know this, that in a survey in the UK 30% or muslims expressed some kind of support for islamic terror acts in the UK. This is very worrying, because it means they are not reporting their fellow muslims to authorities when they plan terror attacks. The main problem with islam though is that it is fundamentally incompatible with western values. It must cause them immense stress to live in the west, and it causes us stress when the do, because we do not agree on so many things, and find so many things about each others culture disagreeable, and even abhorrent. The two cultures should therefore not mix. Anyway, guns in the US. The problem is they like to kill each other. Take away their guns and they will use knives, which is what happens in the UK.
Munchies_Matt wrote:
The problem is they like to kill each other.
X|
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John Simmons / outlaw programmer wrote:
"If ever a time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in Government, our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots to prevent its ruin." - Samuel Adams
Where are the real patriots[^] instead of those who are only interested in protecting their guns?
History is the joke the living play on the dead.
Protecting their guns IS being patriotic. Because 2nd Amendment. BTW, your link goes to a blank page.
".45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly" - JSOP, 2010
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You can never have too much ammo - unless you're swimming, or on fire. - JSOP, 2010
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When you pry the gun from my cold dead hands, be careful - the barrel will be very hot. - JSOP, 2013 -
John Simmons / outlaw programmer wrote:
If ever a time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in Government
As if that would ever happen! :laugh:
"These people looked deep within my soul and assigned me a number based on the order in which I joined." - Homer
In reality, those are the ONLY types of men that possess the highest seats of government.
".45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly" - JSOP, 2010
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You can never have too much ammo - unless you're swimming, or on fire. - JSOP, 2010
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When you pry the gun from my cold dead hands, be careful - the barrel will be very hot. - JSOP, 2013 -
Cars don't kill people. People kill people ;P At the end, Islamic terrorism should be the least of US government concerns. There are much bigger problems to fix. Putting in place a Muslim ban is purely ideological. Banning a group of people for no real reason is purely ideological. Ideologies lead to fascism.
The Centrist wrote:
Cars don't kill people. People kill people
Ahem... Pedestrian killed by autonomous car[^] ;P From what I can gather, she walked right out in front of it but the car was driving itself at the time.
if (Object.DividedByZero == true) { Universe.Implode(); }
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The Centrist wrote:
Cars don't kill people. People kill people
Guns dont kill people, people kill people. ;P Re muslims, if one smartie in a bowl was poisonous would you eat any? The problem is, and you might not know this, that in a survey in the UK 30% or muslims expressed some kind of support for islamic terror acts in the UK. This is very worrying, because it means they are not reporting their fellow muslims to authorities when they plan terror attacks. The main problem with islam though is that it is fundamentally incompatible with western values. It must cause them immense stress to live in the west, and it causes us stress when the do, because we do not agree on so many things, and find so many things about each others culture disagreeable, and even abhorrent. The two cultures should therefore not mix. Anyway, guns in the US. The problem is they like to kill each other. Take away their guns and they will use knives, which is what happens in the UK.
Munchies_Matt wrote:
Anyway, guns in the US. The problem is they like to kill each other.
That's a pretty broad stroke of the brush, Matt. I would venture a guess that many of the people that kill with a gun are doing so in self defense (although you won't ever see that metric included in any statistics pushed by the state-run media) and don't like doing it. MANY more people die in the US from other causes. You would be better off saying that they kill people with medical instruments, cars, or sports equipment. Let's keep it real.
".45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly" - JSOP, 2010
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You can never have too much ammo - unless you're swimming, or on fire. - JSOP, 2010
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When you pry the gun from my cold dead hands, be careful - the barrel will be very hot. - JSOP, 2013 -
Munchies_Matt wrote:
Anyway, guns in the US. The problem is they like to kill each other.
That's a pretty broad stroke of the brush, Matt. I would venture a guess that many of the people that kill with a gun are doing so in self defense (although you won't ever see that metric included in any statistics pushed by the state-run media) and don't like doing it. MANY more people die in the US from other causes. You would be better off saying that they kill people with medical instruments, cars, or sports equipment. Let's keep it real.
".45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly" - JSOP, 2010
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You can never have too much ammo - unless you're swimming, or on fire. - JSOP, 2010
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When you pry the gun from my cold dead hands, be careful - the barrel will be very hot. - JSOP, 2013True, but those arent intentional causes of death. In the UK we have a lot of black on black killings, with knives. It is socio-cultural violence. If we had guns, it would be gun deaths. And I am sure it is the same ethnic group in the US behind a lot of it. But I remember one incident in the US when I was there. A guy let out of prison recently, stopped by the police, decided to drive off, and gets into an armed standoff at his home ion Roseville. There were about 3 helicopters in the air, it was quite a spectacle. But what is going on in his head that puts him and his family at risk, that makes him push it to such an extreme. This is the US's problem. Why doesnt a criminal realise that at that critical point it is better to 'come quietly' than to escalate it and get killed or end up in prison for far longer? So a shoot out with the police ensues. Why?
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The Centrist wrote:
Cars don't kill people. People kill people
Ahem... Pedestrian killed by autonomous car[^] ;P From what I can gather, she walked right out in front of it but the car was driving itself at the time.
if (Object.DividedByZero == true) { Universe.Implode(); }
Foothill wrote:
Ahem... Pedestrian killed by autonomous car[^] ;-P
So, it begins.
