How to find a Windows app developer?
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I agree with you but UWP is not a requirement. It's an example of the skillset we're looking for. Our product is actually WPF right now, but we want to port it to Xamarin or maybe Avalonia longer term if that project winds up panning out. And we also just need help maintaining it because out of our three developers, I (the original founder) am the only one who can do WPF. These are the actual requirements posted: - 5+ years’ experience developing Windows desktop (WPF or Windows Forms), UWP, or Xamarin Forms applications using C#/.NET and XAML - Knowledge of the MVVM pattern - Basic understanding of SQL Doesn't seem super esoteric, but I agree it's not what the kids would call trendy.
I use MFC C++ for windows user mode stuff, and its fine. Does the job every time. :)
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I use MFC C++ for windows user mode stuff, and its fine. Does the job every time. :)
Exactly. If the tools are adequate for the task at hand, why change them?
Ad astra - both ways!
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Is it me or are Windows application developers becoming an endangered species? My company needed a web developer earlier this year and found a great one in only about two weeks through ZipRecruiter. Now we need a Windows desktop/UWP/Xamarin developer and haven't gotten a single qualified applicant. (Plenty of people with web experience apply, apparently without reading the job requirements). Has anyone else gone through this? Any tips?
The young-uns(people under 35 as far as I am concerned) where I work laugh at Windows apps and scoff at anything that is not web development. Having come from a background of winforms development I am probably one of those who might be in demand at some point. That said - any decent web developer(someone experienced in MVC, C# SQL) should have little difficulty developing on a non web system - the thing is finding people willing to do that work is probably not going to be easy ,as the future seems to have been web development for the past 10 years and more.
“That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence.”
― Christopher Hitchens
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Is it me or are Windows application developers becoming an endangered species? My company needed a web developer earlier this year and found a great one in only about two weeks through ZipRecruiter. Now we need a Windows desktop/UWP/Xamarin developer and haven't gotten a single qualified applicant. (Plenty of people with web experience apply, apparently without reading the job requirements). Has anyone else gone through this? Any tips?
Strange, according to most posters to this thread i should not be existing... Still i am here and chose desktop instead of elephanting we(e)b stuff. :laugh:
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Is it me or are Windows application developers becoming an endangered species? My company needed a web developer earlier this year and found a great one in only about two weeks through ZipRecruiter. Now we need a Windows desktop/UWP/Xamarin developer and haven't gotten a single qualified applicant. (Plenty of people with web experience apply, apparently without reading the job requirements). Has anyone else gone through this? Any tips?
There is a widespread feeling in the developer community that platform dependent desktop development is a dead-end. WinForms/GDI+ is considered a new VB6, WPF is half-baked and hasn't had an update for years, and Xamarin requires GTK. Multi-platform desktop products can now be build using alternatives such as Electron Framework and JavaScript. So, yes, desktop development is fading away from the mainstream. Most newcomers prefer agile'n'web drone career, with just enough back-end knowledge for a hello world service using REST/JSON/OWIN/UNITY/Newtonsoft/oauth/(insert 10 other frameworks) technology. In addition to that, the philosophy of old Windows Desktop development and WPF is radically different. So having a good C/C++ programmer once guaranteed a good WinForms programmer, but does not guarantee good WPF programmer, and vice versa, further cutting the developer stock. Tips? Are your requirements carved in stone? Can you live with another technology? If not -- steal a corporate drone. A lot of us still do maintain line of business apps on WinForms/WPF. We can be found either in IT companies that create LOB software or in corporations maintaining legacy LOB systems. p.s. Don't use web developers. They have radically different mindset, they work with gazillion of frameworks, don't know strong typing, storyboard their life, and inject'n'pattern everything that moves. That's all very nice, and cool too, but you don't use a wrench to cut hair. And beware of "standard control" freaks. They don't innovate and their software looks like living DevExpress mutant from the 90ties, with 20 switchable fluorescent control skins that scare the shit out of you, and without any catchy innovative approach that makes your app stand out. You'll recognize them by bloated data-modeling and raping you with screen wireframes.
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I agree with you but UWP is not a requirement. It's an example of the skillset we're looking for. Our product is actually WPF right now, but we want to port it to Xamarin or maybe Avalonia longer term if that project winds up panning out. And we also just need help maintaining it because out of our three developers, I (the original founder) am the only one who can do WPF. These are the actual requirements posted: - 5+ years’ experience developing Windows desktop (WPF or Windows Forms), UWP, or Xamarin Forms applications using C#/.NET and XAML - Knowledge of the MVVM pattern - Basic understanding of SQL Doesn't seem super esoteric, but I agree it's not what the kids would call trendy.
Peter Moore - Chicago wrote:
5+ years’ experience developing Windows desktop (WPF or Windows Forms), UWP, or Xamarin Forms applications using C#/.NET and XAML
Let's break that down and see why you might be putting people off. 5 years WPF experience? Fair enough, you can have that but expect these people to be expensive. By implication of the start of the sentence, 5 years UWP. Nope, UWP was introduced with Windows 10 in 2015 (okay, there were some diehards trying it out during the beta phase but do you really want to hang your hopes on that). Prior to Windows 10, it was UWA - you know that coders are pedantic so and so's. Again, by implication of the start of the sentence, 5 years experience Xamarin Forms. Again, this dates back to 2015. So, if someone comes along having the maximum experience in UWP or Xamarin Forms, your advert is going to put them off. The requirements read like they were written by a recruiter rather than an experienced developer.
This space for rent
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I agree with you but UWP is not a requirement. It's an example of the skillset we're looking for. Our product is actually WPF right now, but we want to port it to Xamarin or maybe Avalonia longer term if that project winds up panning out. And we also just need help maintaining it because out of our three developers, I (the original founder) am the only one who can do WPF. These are the actual requirements posted: - 5+ years’ experience developing Windows desktop (WPF or Windows Forms), UWP, or Xamarin Forms applications using C#/.NET and XAML - Knowledge of the MVVM pattern - Basic understanding of SQL Doesn't seem super esoteric, but I agree it's not what the kids would call trendy.
Well, I would just about qualify for that (but for the fact that I live several thousand miles away) but the fact is that I wouldn't always have qualified for that! I've been in the game for about 25 years but only the last 5 of those have been on Windows desktop and that's been Winforms/WPF not UWP or Xamarin. I've been using SQL for an awful lot longer. So looking at your ad at any point up to a year or so ago, I wouldn't have met your requirements and wouldn't apply on those grounds. 5 years on a single tech is a big ask in an industry that reinvents the screwdriver on a daily basis! Let's suppose, for the sake of argument, that I'm your ideal candidate: Your ad really says that I wasn't until a months ago. Now, I'm still the same guy that I was a couple of years ago - I may now have a little bit more exposure to WPF and MVVM but this doesn't really have any bearing on more fundamental questions such as "Can I code my way out of a wet paper bag?" Sure, you obviously want someone who can hit the ground running with MVVM but would it not be better to ask for someone with 5+ years development experience with knowledge of desktop techs?
98.4% of statistics are made up on the spot.
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Strange, according to most posters to this thread i should not be existing... Still i am here and chose desktop instead of elephanting we(e)b stuff. :laugh:
if(!string.IsNullOrWhiteSpace(_signature))
{
MessageBox.Show("This is my signature: " + Environment.NewLine + _signature);
}
else
{
MessageBox.Show("404-Signature not found");
}Are you looking for a job?
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I would have to say this is age related. Most young developers focus on mobile first since it has the best chance of landing them a job. I would surmise that anyone who knows their way around the Windows API is already tenured and not looking for a job. Not to mention that the learning curve for Windows development is practically vertical. I find that WPF is fantastic and it grows on me each time I use it but it is definitely not the easiest thing to pick up. I've been working with it for years and I still don't half of it.
if (Object.DividedByZero == true) { Universe.Implode(); }
I would entertain changing jobs, but I would rather drive a Chevy than move to - or even fly over - Chicago.
".45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly" - JSOP, 2010
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You can never have too much ammo - unless you're swimming, or on fire. - JSOP, 2010
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When you pry the gun from my cold dead hands, be careful - the barrel will be very hot. - JSOP, 2013 -
Well, I would just about qualify for that (but for the fact that I live several thousand miles away) but the fact is that I wouldn't always have qualified for that! I've been in the game for about 25 years but only the last 5 of those have been on Windows desktop and that's been Winforms/WPF not UWP or Xamarin. I've been using SQL for an awful lot longer. So looking at your ad at any point up to a year or so ago, I wouldn't have met your requirements and wouldn't apply on those grounds. 5 years on a single tech is a big ask in an industry that reinvents the screwdriver on a daily basis! Let's suppose, for the sake of argument, that I'm your ideal candidate: Your ad really says that I wasn't until a months ago. Now, I'm still the same guy that I was a couple of years ago - I may now have a little bit more exposure to WPF and MVVM but this doesn't really have any bearing on more fundamental questions such as "Can I code my way out of a wet paper bag?" Sure, you obviously want someone who can hit the ground running with MVVM but would it not be better to ask for someone with 5+ years development experience with knowledge of desktop techs?
98.4% of statistics are made up on the spot.
Is there something about the word "OR" that folks are not getting? It should be obvious I'm not expecting someone to have five years experience on UWP.
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I agree with you but UWP is not a requirement. It's an example of the skillset we're looking for. Our product is actually WPF right now, but we want to port it to Xamarin or maybe Avalonia longer term if that project winds up panning out. And we also just need help maintaining it because out of our three developers, I (the original founder) am the only one who can do WPF. These are the actual requirements posted: - 5+ years’ experience developing Windows desktop (WPF or Windows Forms), UWP, or Xamarin Forms applications using C#/.NET and XAML - Knowledge of the MVVM pattern - Basic understanding of SQL Doesn't seem super esoteric, but I agree it's not what the kids would call trendy.
That's precisely my skill set. I've been doing WPF since 2010, have always used MVVM, and have a MCSA cert for SQL Server 2012. But, well, Chicago.
".45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly" - JSOP, 2010
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You can never have too much ammo - unless you're swimming, or on fire. - JSOP, 2010
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When you pry the gun from my cold dead hands, be careful - the barrel will be very hot. - JSOP, 2013 -
That's precisely my skill set. I've been doing WPF since 2010, have always used MVVM, and have a MCSA cert for SQL Server 2012. But, well, Chicago.
".45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly" - JSOP, 2010
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You can never have too much ammo - unless you're swimming, or on fire. - JSOP, 2010
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When you pry the gun from my cold dead hands, be careful - the barrel will be very hot. - JSOP, 2013I'd consider remote at this point. PM me if interested.
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Is there something about the word "OR" that folks are not getting? It should be obvious I'm not expecting someone to have five years experience on UWP.
Yes, I totally get the word "or", my point was entirely about the 5+ years desktop :doh:
98.4% of statistics are made up on the spot.
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Yes, I totally get the word "or", my point was entirely about the 5+ years desktop :doh:
98.4% of statistics are made up on the spot.
Ah gotcha. Well I could try making that list a little broader because yes obviously someone with a background like yours - even a year ago - would be a shoo in. Thanks for the insight!
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There is a widespread feeling in the developer community that platform dependent desktop development is a dead-end. WinForms/GDI+ is considered a new VB6, WPF is half-baked and hasn't had an update for years, and Xamarin requires GTK. Multi-platform desktop products can now be build using alternatives such as Electron Framework and JavaScript. So, yes, desktop development is fading away from the mainstream. Most newcomers prefer agile'n'web drone career, with just enough back-end knowledge for a hello world service using REST/JSON/OWIN/UNITY/Newtonsoft/oauth/(insert 10 other frameworks) technology. In addition to that, the philosophy of old Windows Desktop development and WPF is radically different. So having a good C/C++ programmer once guaranteed a good WinForms programmer, but does not guarantee good WPF programmer, and vice versa, further cutting the developer stock. Tips? Are your requirements carved in stone? Can you live with another technology? If not -- steal a corporate drone. A lot of us still do maintain line of business apps on WinForms/WPF. We can be found either in IT companies that create LOB software or in corporations maintaining legacy LOB systems. p.s. Don't use web developers. They have radically different mindset, they work with gazillion of frameworks, don't know strong typing, storyboard their life, and inject'n'pattern everything that moves. That's all very nice, and cool too, but you don't use a wrench to cut hair. And beware of "standard control" freaks. They don't innovate and their software looks like living DevExpress mutant from the 90ties, with 20 switchable fluorescent control skins that scare the shit out of you, and without any catchy innovative approach that makes your app stand out. You'll recognize them by bloated data-modeling and raping you with screen wireframes.
Tomaž Štih wrote:
they work with gazillion of frameworks, don't know strong typing, storyboard their life, and inject'n'pattern everything that moves
I will put this in my forum signature some day :D
GCS d-- s-/++ a- C++++ U+++ P- L+@ E-- W++ N+ o+ K- w+++ O? M-- V? PS+ PE- Y+ PGP t+ 5? X R+++ tv-- b+(+++) DI+++ D++ G e++ h--- ++>+++ y+++* Weapons extension: ma- k++ F+2 X
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Exactly. If the tools are adequate for the task at hand, why change them?
Ad astra - both ways!
Very much, indeed! I am using QT only because most code is cross-platform. When I need to whip up a native desktop application with an UI, it's going to be MFC all the way. :)
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Is it me or are Windows application developers becoming an endangered species? My company needed a web developer earlier this year and found a great one in only about two weeks through ZipRecruiter. Now we need a Windows desktop/UWP/Xamarin developer and haven't gotten a single qualified applicant. (Plenty of people with web experience apply, apparently without reading the job requirements). Has anyone else gone through this? Any tips?
I found your job posting on ZipRecruiter. I think the primary turnoff (for me anyway) is that the position is "temporary". How temporary is it?
".45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly" - JSOP, 2010
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You can never have too much ammo - unless you're swimming, or on fire. - JSOP, 2010
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When you pry the gun from my cold dead hands, be careful - the barrel will be very hot. - JSOP, 2013 -
I found your job posting on ZipRecruiter. I think the primary turnoff (for me anyway) is that the position is "temporary". How temporary is it?
".45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly" - JSOP, 2010
-----
You can never have too much ammo - unless you're swimming, or on fire. - JSOP, 2010
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When you pry the gun from my cold dead hands, be careful - the barrel will be very hot. - JSOP, 2013That's fair. I PMed you.
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Are you looking for a job?
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Is it me or are Windows application developers becoming an endangered species? My company needed a web developer earlier this year and found a great one in only about two weeks through ZipRecruiter. Now we need a Windows desktop/UWP/Xamarin developer and haven't gotten a single qualified applicant. (Plenty of people with web experience apply, apparently without reading the job requirements). Has anyone else gone through this? Any tips?