How to find a Windows app developer?
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There is a widespread feeling in the developer community that platform dependent desktop development is a dead-end. WinForms/GDI+ is considered a new VB6, WPF is half-baked and hasn't had an update for years, and Xamarin requires GTK. Multi-platform desktop products can now be build using alternatives such as Electron Framework and JavaScript. So, yes, desktop development is fading away from the mainstream. Most newcomers prefer agile'n'web drone career, with just enough back-end knowledge for a hello world service using REST/JSON/OWIN/UNITY/Newtonsoft/oauth/(insert 10 other frameworks) technology. In addition to that, the philosophy of old Windows Desktop development and WPF is radically different. So having a good C/C++ programmer once guaranteed a good WinForms programmer, but does not guarantee good WPF programmer, and vice versa, further cutting the developer stock. Tips? Are your requirements carved in stone? Can you live with another technology? If not -- steal a corporate drone. A lot of us still do maintain line of business apps on WinForms/WPF. We can be found either in IT companies that create LOB software or in corporations maintaining legacy LOB systems. p.s. Don't use web developers. They have radically different mindset, they work with gazillion of frameworks, don't know strong typing, storyboard their life, and inject'n'pattern everything that moves. That's all very nice, and cool too, but you don't use a wrench to cut hair. And beware of "standard control" freaks. They don't innovate and their software looks like living DevExpress mutant from the 90ties, with 20 switchable fluorescent control skins that scare the shit out of you, and without any catchy innovative approach that makes your app stand out. You'll recognize them by bloated data-modeling and raping you with screen wireframes.
Tomaž Štih wrote:
they work with gazillion of frameworks, don't know strong typing, storyboard their life, and inject'n'pattern everything that moves
I will put this in my forum signature some day :D
GCS d-- s-/++ a- C++++ U+++ P- L+@ E-- W++ N+ o+ K- w+++ O? M-- V? PS+ PE- Y+ PGP t+ 5? X R+++ tv-- b+(+++) DI+++ D++ G e++ h--- ++>+++ y+++* Weapons extension: ma- k++ F+2 X
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Exactly. If the tools are adequate for the task at hand, why change them?
Ad astra - both ways!
Very much, indeed! I am using QT only because most code is cross-platform. When I need to whip up a native desktop application with an UI, it's going to be MFC all the way. :)
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Is it me or are Windows application developers becoming an endangered species? My company needed a web developer earlier this year and found a great one in only about two weeks through ZipRecruiter. Now we need a Windows desktop/UWP/Xamarin developer and haven't gotten a single qualified applicant. (Plenty of people with web experience apply, apparently without reading the job requirements). Has anyone else gone through this? Any tips?
I found your job posting on ZipRecruiter. I think the primary turnoff (for me anyway) is that the position is "temporary". How temporary is it?
".45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly" - JSOP, 2010
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You can never have too much ammo - unless you're swimming, or on fire. - JSOP, 2010
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When you pry the gun from my cold dead hands, be careful - the barrel will be very hot. - JSOP, 2013 -
I found your job posting on ZipRecruiter. I think the primary turnoff (for me anyway) is that the position is "temporary". How temporary is it?
".45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly" - JSOP, 2010
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You can never have too much ammo - unless you're swimming, or on fire. - JSOP, 2010
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When you pry the gun from my cold dead hands, be careful - the barrel will be very hot. - JSOP, 2013That's fair. I PMed you.
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Are you looking for a job?
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Is it me or are Windows application developers becoming an endangered species? My company needed a web developer earlier this year and found a great one in only about two weeks through ZipRecruiter. Now we need a Windows desktop/UWP/Xamarin developer and haven't gotten a single qualified applicant. (Plenty of people with web experience apply, apparently without reading the job requirements). Has anyone else gone through this? Any tips?
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Is it me or are Windows application developers becoming an endangered species? My company needed a web developer earlier this year and found a great one in only about two weeks through ZipRecruiter. Now we need a Windows desktop/UWP/Xamarin developer and haven't gotten a single qualified applicant. (Plenty of people with web experience apply, apparently without reading the job requirements). Has anyone else gone through this? Any tips?
I don't know about windows, I work on iOS and Android apps, but one day out of sheer curiosity, I have tried to replicate an HTML5/CSS3/JavaScript(with addons) UI with native elements. Result: disaster, the HTML5/CSS3/Javascript combination happens to be the best and fastest UI platform. Even microsoft tried at one point WinJS I think.
throughout my life, my two greatest assets have been mental stability and being, like, really smart.
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I'd consider remote at this point. PM me if interested.
If you are receptive to a remote, what kind of weekly contribution hours wise are you looking for? I ask because I already have a job that I don't really want to give up** but the pay isn't exactly stellar. I've got about 6 years of SQL Server + ~4 years WPF. ** I have an actual office all to myself plus sick time and lax deadlines which is really quite nice
if (Object.DividedByZero == true) { Universe.Implode(); }
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I'd consider remote at this point. PM me if interested.
CWYAF
"One man's wage rise is another man's price increase." - Harold Wilson
"Fireproof doesn't mean the fire will never come. It means when the fire comes that you will be able to withstand it." - Michael Simmons
"You can easily judge the character of a man by how he treats those who can do nothing for him." - James D. Miles
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I agree with you but UWP is not a requirement. It's an example of the skillset we're looking for. Our product is actually WPF right now, but we want to port it to Xamarin or maybe Avalonia longer term if that project winds up panning out. And we also just need help maintaining it because out of our three developers, I (the original founder) am the only one who can do WPF. These are the actual requirements posted: - 5+ years’ experience developing Windows desktop (WPF or Windows Forms), UWP, or Xamarin Forms applications using C#/.NET and XAML - Knowledge of the MVVM pattern - Basic understanding of SQL Doesn't seem super esoteric, but I agree it's not what the kids would call trendy.
My 2 cents, if you are asking for 5+ years of just developing Windows Desktop Applications(...). I would make: UWP a bonus I would state: Looking for someone who wants to learn Xamarin. I would loosen MVVM to "MVVM, MVC, or similar patterns" Honestly, if the person walked in, was clearly qualified as stated above, interested in learning and move a project to Xamarin... etc. Wouldn't you have hired them already? I try to separate what they "know" from what they "can learn". Give me a developer with core skills and an interest ANY day. Good luck!
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Is it me or are Windows application developers becoming an endangered species? My company needed a web developer earlier this year and found a great one in only about two weeks through ZipRecruiter. Now we need a Windows desktop/UWP/Xamarin developer and haven't gotten a single qualified applicant. (Plenty of people with web experience apply, apparently without reading the job requirements). Has anyone else gone through this? Any tips?
We are a dying breed. I have been a Desktop Programmer since 1978. Most Guys like me are settled and have found our own niche (Wives, children, grandchildren, homes, mortgages, favorite bars, etc.) "Developer" is the term du Jour, to guys like me. Don't use it. Also, consider allowing a candidate to work remotely. Even then expect to pay more, we know how "rare" we are becoming. Supply and Demand - Adam Smith had it right, it's not just a theory, it's a fact. I get contacted by "head hunters" two to three times a week. I am currently upgrading my package from VB6 to C#, so my current clients have a fighting chance of finding someone to maintain my code after I am gone. Yes, I do expect my software to outlive me. :omg:
It's a random chance Universe and we are all out there riding waves of Probability. "Newer" is NOT automatically better, only Different. (And more complex and bug ridden when it comes to all of the "boutique" languages / frameworks out there)
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dandy72 wrote:
IMNSHO
I had to use a search engine for that one... we need a mouseover window to translate these slangs. Best Wishes, -David Delaune
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My 2 cents, if you are asking for 5+ years of just developing Windows Desktop Applications(...). I would make: UWP a bonus I would state: Looking for someone who wants to learn Xamarin. I would loosen MVVM to "MVVM, MVC, or similar patterns" Honestly, if the person walked in, was clearly qualified as stated above, interested in learning and move a project to Xamarin... etc. Wouldn't you have hired them already? I try to separate what they "know" from what they "can learn". Give me a developer with core skills and an interest ANY day. Good luck!
Good suggestions, thanks!
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I'd consider remote at this point. PM me if interested.
I'm pretty sure this is it - add remote possible and people will run in your doors. I'm in Germany, where remote job offers are really rare (Home Office Option is quite common - where option means only for after work-hours :( ), and non-web job offers as remote are even rarer. You should know: nowadays desktop developers work mainly in industry, not in software companies - those are almost all web or app (ios/android) as of now. Industry employees are paid damn well, but they are also bound to their production site, because they take care of machinery. So they don't lack work, they don't lack money - but they absolutely lack flexibility - especially the possibility to work remote. Mark your job as remote here on stackoverflow and it will go out by e.g. goremote.io - whose newsletter hits developers around the world. Developers like me, who match your prerequisites word by word. You don't know how many industry workers will be so happy to see that specific field of software development offered as remote. So... See you in the next newsletter! By the way: only US or Europe too...?
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I agree with you but UWP is not a requirement. It's an example of the skillset we're looking for. Our product is actually WPF right now, but we want to port it to Xamarin or maybe Avalonia longer term if that project winds up panning out. And we also just need help maintaining it because out of our three developers, I (the original founder) am the only one who can do WPF. These are the actual requirements posted: - 5+ years’ experience developing Windows desktop (WPF or Windows Forms), UWP, or Xamarin Forms applications using C#/.NET and XAML - Knowledge of the MVVM pattern - Basic understanding of SQL Doesn't seem super esoteric, but I agree it's not what the kids would call trendy.
I've had to learn on my own and work with several languages. The most time consuming part is not learning the language, but learning the application. Your requirement of 5+ years experience in Windows programming seems excessive. I'd cut it to 2 or 3. And you might add Silverlight experience as an option.
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Some advice : firstly, make sure your expectations are reasonable. Do not expect five years of experience in technology that is two years old. This is far more common than you might realize. Secondly, if you are striking out with your current requirements then consider relaxing them a bit. Someone with a lot of related experience can probably learn the specifics you need and do a reasonably good job for you. This is something I have seen a lot of. People sometimes set very high expectations and refuse to moderate them after repeated failure. These are just two things I noticed from my last job search. -edit- I have experienced what you have from both the interviewer and interviewee perspectives and both can be frustrating.
UWP/Windows Store Apps have been around at least 5 years as I was doing Windows Server 2008 R2 management (and development) in 2012.
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Exactly. If the tools are adequate for the task at hand, why change them?
Ad astra - both ways!
OK, you cant do fancy modern UI stuff with it, but quite frankly, I hate the modern UI. Give me grey buttons and edit windows! Thats all I Want! :) I work mostly in the kernel, and that really hasnt changed for ages. In fact since the days of NT!
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UWP/Windows Store Apps have been around at least 5 years as I was doing Windows Server 2008 R2 management (and development) in 2012.
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I would have to say this is age related. Most young developers focus on mobile first since it has the best chance of landing them a job. I would surmise that anyone who knows their way around the Windows API is already tenured and not looking for a job. Not to mention that the learning curve for Windows development is practically vertical. I find that WPF is fantastic and it grows on me each time I use it but it is definitely not the easiest thing to pick up. I've been working with it for years and I still don't half of it.
if (Object.DividedByZero == true) { Universe.Implode(); }
I've been doing Windows development since the days of VB5. At almost every stop along the way in my career, whether it's been a web dev position, architect, or even CTO of a startup, I have developed apps, utilities and support tools in Windows Forms, WPF and UWP, not to mention all of my personal projects.
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Peter Moore - Chicago wrote:
Now we need a Windows desktop/UWP/Xamarin developer
IMNSHO, that's why you're not finding anyone. While I know mostly Windows developers, nobody's even remotely interested in UWP. There's more interest in transitioning from Windows to other platforms than UWP. You'd be better off skipping that requirement so you don't scare anyone away. Instead look for someone who can adapt to new technologies.
dandy72 wrote:
IMNSHO, that's why you're not finding anyone. While I know mostly Windows developers, nobody's even remotely interested in UWP. There's more interest in transitioning from Windows to other platforms than UWP. You'd be better off skipping that requirement so you don't scare anyone away. Instead look for someone who can adapt to new technologies.
Sorry, but that's a very short-sighted view. Microsoft has made it very clear that Win32 is an endangered species. Microsoft is still over 90% of the desktop and laptop market (and laptops are making a comeback as people learn that Android tablets are not a suitable replacement). Being able to code for UWP is going to become IMMENSELY important to developers as UWP provides a much richer experience than web apps and they use a very similar model in the architecture of how the apps interact with the business systems. Business are not going to toss out there very, very, very expensive dependency on Microsoft Windows and move to Mac or GNU/Linux. Even Google is getting into the UWP game. They are working with Microsoft for a joint app framework based on UWP that will run on both Android (or its rumored replacement) and Windows 10 with Android providing the mobile support and Windows 10 providing the deeper application support. It's very clear the Google sees the writing on the wall about desktop, and that Microsoft was probably already working on this stuff for quite a while before killing Windows 10 Mobile.
The Sharp Ninja http://www.thesharp.ninja http://thesharp.ninja/the-case-for-universal-apps-on-the-desktop/ http://thesharp.ninja/using-the-mvc-pattern-with-windows-10-universal-applications-part-1/