Developers are always the problem. Or are they?
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I recently had a problem at my job. We work for a company abroad as contractor, so all our communication is done by Slack and our tasks are on TFS. The task I want to talk about, was basically to hardcode some items in a list that came from a database. I warned them all that this would break some other modules in our application, because it used that same data. They just told me to finish that task and go on. It didn't work out and it broke the application, as I have told them many times before. But my main complaint is that, they sent an email to my manager saying that the RC was broken because of me. I did have all chat history, so it was easy to prove to my boss that I just did what I was told and even warned them many times about that. Was I really guilt in all of this? Should I have just ignored thier orders and didn't finish the task?
You did ok. Good to keep records. You could have gone to your manager and tell him the requested changes would break the application before doing them.
I'd rather be phishing!
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I recently had a problem at my job. We work for a company abroad as contractor, so all our communication is done by Slack and our tasks are on TFS. The task I want to talk about, was basically to hardcode some items in a list that came from a database. I warned them all that this would break some other modules in our application, because it used that same data. They just told me to finish that task and go on. It didn't work out and it broke the application, as I have told them many times before. But my main complaint is that, they sent an email to my manager saying that the RC was broken because of me. I did have all chat history, so it was easy to prove to my boss that I just did what I was told and even warned them many times about that. Was I really guilt in all of this? Should I have just ignored thier orders and didn't finish the task?
I faced the same problem many times, it seems some managers deliberately only communicate verbally so they can just deny that they made a wrong request, sigh :sigh:
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I recently had a problem at my job. We work for a company abroad as contractor, so all our communication is done by Slack and our tasks are on TFS. The task I want to talk about, was basically to hardcode some items in a list that came from a database. I warned them all that this would break some other modules in our application, because it used that same data. They just told me to finish that task and go on. It didn't work out and it broke the application, as I have told them many times before. But my main complaint is that, they sent an email to my manager saying that the RC was broken because of me. I did have all chat history, so it was easy to prove to my boss that I just did what I was told and even warned them many times about that. Was I really guilt in all of this? Should I have just ignored thier orders and didn't finish the task?
You did the right thing. Its nice to see someone who cares enough to struggle with the ethics of this all-to-common situation. I'm simply happy you still had the chat available. When I find myself in this situation, I usually send an e-mail to person I chatted with...something like "I enjoyed our recent discussion about BLAH. If I understood correctly, you would like me to do WHATEVER to BLAH? Since I had some concerns, could you please confirm that I have understood correctly? Thank you." I then CC anyone who is directly affected. This gives anyone who cares a chance to object and creates evidence that is hard to dispute. One of my old bosses jokingly called this "getting as many fingerprints as possible on the murder weapon" :)
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I faced the same problem many times, it seems some managers deliberately only communicate verbally so they can just deny that they made a wrong request, sigh :sigh:
I've taken to always sending a follow up email recapping the conversation, it's better than nothing.
"the debugger doesn't tell me anything because this code compiles just fine" - random QA comment "Facebook is where you tell lies to your friends. Twitter is where you tell the truth to strangers." - chriselst "I don't drink any more... then again, I don't drink any less." - Mike Mullikins uncle
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You did the right thing. Its nice to see someone who cares enough to struggle with the ethics of this all-to-common situation. I'm simply happy you still had the chat available. When I find myself in this situation, I usually send an e-mail to person I chatted with...something like "I enjoyed our recent discussion about BLAH. If I understood correctly, you would like me to do WHATEVER to BLAH? Since I had some concerns, could you please confirm that I have understood correctly? Thank you." I then CC anyone who is directly affected. This gives anyone who cares a chance to object and creates evidence that is hard to dispute. One of my old bosses jokingly called this "getting as many fingerprints as possible on the murder weapon" :)
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I recently had a problem at my job. We work for a company abroad as contractor, so all our communication is done by Slack and our tasks are on TFS. The task I want to talk about, was basically to hardcode some items in a list that came from a database. I warned them all that this would break some other modules in our application, because it used that same data. They just told me to finish that task and go on. It didn't work out and it broke the application, as I have told them many times before. But my main complaint is that, they sent an email to my manager saying that the RC was broken because of me. I did have all chat history, so it was easy to prove to my boss that I just did what I was told and even warned them many times about that. Was I really guilt in all of this? Should I have just ignored thier orders and didn't finish the task?
Listen, you obviously know you are working at the wrong company. Get a new job where the "other" software engineers are not retarded. Fresh chips and salsa. Ice cold raspberry seltzer. New job. No retarded software engineers. Good luck. :thumbsup:
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I've taken to always sending a follow up email recapping the conversation, it's better than nothing.
"the debugger doesn't tell me anything because this code compiles just fine" - random QA comment "Facebook is where you tell lies to your friends. Twitter is where you tell the truth to strangers." - chriselst "I don't drink any more... then again, I don't drink any less." - Mike Mullikins uncle
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I recently had a problem at my job. We work for a company abroad as contractor, so all our communication is done by Slack and our tasks are on TFS. The task I want to talk about, was basically to hardcode some items in a list that came from a database. I warned them all that this would break some other modules in our application, because it used that same data. They just told me to finish that task and go on. It didn't work out and it broke the application, as I have told them many times before. But my main complaint is that, they sent an email to my manager saying that the RC was broken because of me. I did have all chat history, so it was easy to prove to my boss that I just did what I was told and even warned them many times about that. Was I really guilt in all of this? Should I have just ignored thier orders and didn't finish the task?
gjp1311 wrote:
Should I Should have just ignored thier orders and didn't finish the task
FTFY Seriously, I get the same thing here, and have learned to object to stupid things. If it's something that's likely to break other things (that I'll likely have to redo later...or worse get blamed for) I do it the right way the first time. That usually means 'pretending to understand' but doing what I want anyway. The fallout from overdoing something is a lot less than taking unnecessary and even dangerous shortcuts. The trick is to give them what they want without going into the details of how you actually got it done. All they should care about is that it works. (or is there more to loading a list from a database query that I should consider?...requires dba approval?...requires online connection?) :)
"Go forth into the source" - Neal Morse
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I recently had a problem at my job. We work for a company abroad as contractor, so all our communication is done by Slack and our tasks are on TFS. The task I want to talk about, was basically to hardcode some items in a list that came from a database. I warned them all that this would break some other modules in our application, because it used that same data. They just told me to finish that task and go on. It didn't work out and it broke the application, as I have told them many times before. But my main complaint is that, they sent an email to my manager saying that the RC was broken because of me. I did have all chat history, so it was easy to prove to my boss that I just did what I was told and even warned them many times about that. Was I really guilt in all of this? Should I have just ignored thier orders and didn't finish the task?
Been there. Made some huge required changes and warned the users via a templated email that we always send for changes. Had a testing period that they signed off on. Goes to production and bam. Users were mad. Said we should have put it red and bolded it so they would have noticed it.
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Been there. Made some huge required changes and warned the users via a templated email that we always send for changes. Had a testing period that they signed off on. Goes to production and bam. Users were mad. Said we should have put it red and bolded it so they would have noticed it.
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I recently had a problem at my job. We work for a company abroad as contractor, so all our communication is done by Slack and our tasks are on TFS. The task I want to talk about, was basically to hardcode some items in a list that came from a database. I warned them all that this would break some other modules in our application, because it used that same data. They just told me to finish that task and go on. It didn't work out and it broke the application, as I have told them many times before. But my main complaint is that, they sent an email to my manager saying that the RC was broken because of me. I did have all chat history, so it was easy to prove to my boss that I just did what I was told and even warned them many times about that. Was I really guilt in all of this? Should I have just ignored thier orders and didn't finish the task?
This happens to all employees at some time or another. You did what was asked and can show it by the history of communications. Alas, that doesn't stop a manager from retaliating. In the end, you can't really protect yourself from a manager trying to protect themself, especially in a contract situation. (One thing I've done in similar situation is ensure that the change can be easily reversed and/or isolated, like wrapping the change in a macro or putting it in a separate module.)
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The old "normally we ignore everything from you" gambit with the associated corollary that "even if you inform us and we ignore you it is still your fault."
I get that at home, dammed if I will put up with it at work.
Rick York wrote:
even if you inform us and we ignore you it is still your fault
Never underestimate the power of human stupidity RAH
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I recently had a problem at my job. We work for a company abroad as contractor, so all our communication is done by Slack and our tasks are on TFS. The task I want to talk about, was basically to hardcode some items in a list that came from a database. I warned them all that this would break some other modules in our application, because it used that same data. They just told me to finish that task and go on. It didn't work out and it broke the application, as I have told them many times before. But my main complaint is that, they sent an email to my manager saying that the RC was broken because of me. I did have all chat history, so it was easy to prove to my boss that I just did what I was told and even warned them many times about that. Was I really guilt in all of this? Should I have just ignored thier orders and didn't finish the task?
I'm at the age where I simply don't do things that I know will cause harm. And it sounds like your team doesn't understand Scrum.
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Listen, you obviously know you are working at the wrong company. Get a new job where the "other" software engineers are not retarded. Fresh chips and salsa. Ice cold raspberry seltzer. New job. No retarded software engineers. Good luck. :thumbsup:
Slacker007 wrote:
New job. No retarded software engineers.
I wouldn't put money on that. ;)
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Listen, you obviously know you are working at the wrong company. Get a new job where the "other" software engineers are not retarded. Fresh chips and salsa. Ice cold raspberry seltzer. New job. No retarded software engineers. Good luck. :thumbsup:
Slacker007 wrote:
Get a new job where the "other" software engineers are not retarded.
It sounds like the OP is working for a "coding sweatshop", where the answer to almost any problem will be "shut up and write code". Moving to another "sweatshop" isn't going to change much, and the positions in good companies aren't that easy to get. :sigh:
Freedom is the freedom to say that two plus two make four. If that is granted, all else follows. -- 6079 Smith W.
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I recently had a problem at my job. We work for a company abroad as contractor, so all our communication is done by Slack and our tasks are on TFS. The task I want to talk about, was basically to hardcode some items in a list that came from a database. I warned them all that this would break some other modules in our application, because it used that same data. They just told me to finish that task and go on. It didn't work out and it broke the application, as I have told them many times before. But my main complaint is that, they sent an email to my manager saying that the RC was broken because of me. I did have all chat history, so it was easy to prove to my boss that I just did what I was told and even warned them many times about that. Was I really guilt in all of this? Should I have just ignored thier orders and didn't finish the task?
I think you acted as a professional. Give the correct advice and argument, but if they really insist you have to do what they ask. Just make sure you always have "prove" of your said advice. Not often, but on occasion I write emails in the line of: "I strongly advise against said feature, but I will implement as requested." :)
V.
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Slacker007 wrote:
Get a new job where the "other" software engineers are not retarded.
It sounds like the OP is working for a "coding sweatshop", where the answer to almost any problem will be "shut up and write code". Moving to another "sweatshop" isn't going to change much, and the positions in good companies aren't that easy to get. :sigh:
Freedom is the freedom to say that two plus two make four. If that is granted, all else follows. -- 6079 Smith W.
Why does getting a new job mean it has to be another sweatshop, or that it will be a sweatshop. If people keep looking - like actually don't stop looking, you will find the right place and the right colleagues. It can be done.
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I recently had a problem at my job. We work for a company abroad as contractor, so all our communication is done by Slack and our tasks are on TFS. The task I want to talk about, was basically to hardcode some items in a list that came from a database. I warned them all that this would break some other modules in our application, because it used that same data. They just told me to finish that task and go on. It didn't work out and it broke the application, as I have told them many times before. But my main complaint is that, they sent an email to my manager saying that the RC was broken because of me. I did have all chat history, so it was easy to prove to my boss that I just did what I was told and even warned them many times about that. Was I really guilt in all of this? Should I have just ignored thier orders and didn't finish the task?
When someone demands stupid crap from me (and is as susceptible to logical reasoning, and reality for that matter, as Donald Trump), I usually do it, but keep proof of be being ordered to do that crap so I can shift the blame, when it arises, to the actual culprit. That's IMHO the best way.
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Why does getting a new job mean it has to be another sweatshop, or that it will be a sweatshop. If people keep looking - like actually don't stop looking, you will find the right place and the right colleagues. It can be done.
35+ years in...had one perfect job. before an ill-advised takeover (via LBO) drove the company to bankruptcy...still looking. My advice is an old saying...don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good. That said, if the job is truly miserable (and not simply inconvenient) then find a new one. The worst you can do is be miserable in new surroundings. At least its a change, huh? :)
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I recently had a problem at my job. We work for a company abroad as contractor, so all our communication is done by Slack and our tasks are on TFS. The task I want to talk about, was basically to hardcode some items in a list that came from a database. I warned them all that this would break some other modules in our application, because it used that same data. They just told me to finish that task and go on. It didn't work out and it broke the application, as I have told them many times before. But my main complaint is that, they sent an email to my manager saying that the RC was broken because of me. I did have all chat history, so it was easy to prove to my boss that I just did what I was told and even warned them many times about that. Was I really guilt in all of this? Should I have just ignored thier orders and didn't finish the task?
I have run into this situation many times in a very long career. This is typical of incompetent, technical management, which has been the bane of the industry since its inception. The solution is to do as you have already done; keep copious notes of what you proposed and what you were told to do. Also ensure that all your notes are timestamped as to when you did what and when you were tasked with the assignments to override your proposals. When you run into a personnel issue as you did, you will have your notes available for your defense. I have fought many bad managers in my time and caused a lot of harm to their positions as a result (I got some fired.). However, unless you are willing to suffer the consequences (and there will always be consequences in business), do not take such an issue further than it has to go (ie: Your supervisor's boss, HR or Personnel). If you believe that your defense of your actions is falling on deaf ears, look for another employer or assignment, since the situation will only occur again at some later time. Me... I am hard-wired to fight bad or tyrannical authority. As a result, I spent a lot of time in my career defending others and defeating the stupidity and arrogance of technical management. Unfortunately, they are like bad politicians. Once you get rid of one bad apple another rotten one pops up. It is a thankless fight but if more professionals were to respond rebelliously than such management may be more wary about going up against credible alternatives provided by their professionals...
Steve Naidamast Sr. Software Engineer Black Falcon Software, Inc. blackfalconsoftware@outlook.com