Why was everything more fun 40 years ago?
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I have been reading electronics magazines from the late 1970s and early 1980s. I had some of the issues and always wanted to read the articles in the issues I missed. Besides those which are relevant to my (then and now) interests, there are many more articles which promise lots of tinkering and fun. Examples? Build yourself a modem and get your box online.[^] The parts list for the modem includes lumber and a tennis ball. :-) Build a robot. With arms and sensors, not just a little toy.[^] Now, where did I see such a robot before? Build a raceway video game console.[^] These games on a chip obviously were popular at the time. Somewhere in the same issue there is an ad for a similar tanks viedeo game chip and there probably were even more. It cost something like $5.95, not much even in 1980. What computer to get if you want to learn all about microprocessors.[^] In the same issue: Computer control for the robot![^]
I have lived with several Zen masters - all of them were cats. His last invention was an evil Lasagna. It didn't kill anyone, and it actually tasted pretty good.
You make me want to go down in my basement to dig up all my old BYTE issues from the late 1970s - I never got my collection complete from Isusse #1, but it is close. One of the 70's DYI projects that I remeber well was a computer controlled wood stove. This guy had build a container for finely cut wood (it wasn't pellets, but roughly that size, I believe) with a funnel into his stove, so the wood could fall down by gravitation. This must have been a few years before the IBM PC; the computer may have been an Altair or Imsai, controlling the motor opening the hatch allowing more wood to fall down, and the motor opening/closing the air vent. What I don't remember is how he read the inputs - you couldn't simply buy a USB thermometer in those days... When the magazines are ten years old, everybody ask "Why don't you throw that old shit out?" If you stubbornly cling to the magazines until they are fourty, everybody gasps: "What a treasure!"
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Nelek wrote:
90% of it not needed / useless
But ... but ... what would you do if your toaster couldn't connect to the internet? :omg:
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[The Object-Oriented Toaster](http://www.danielsen.com/jokes/objecttoaster.txt)
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I have been reading electronics magazines from the late 1970s and early 1980s. I had some of the issues and always wanted to read the articles in the issues I missed. Besides those which are relevant to my (then and now) interests, there are many more articles which promise lots of tinkering and fun. Examples? Build yourself a modem and get your box online.[^] The parts list for the modem includes lumber and a tennis ball. :-) Build a robot. With arms and sensors, not just a little toy.[^] Now, where did I see such a robot before? Build a raceway video game console.[^] These games on a chip obviously were popular at the time. Somewhere in the same issue there is an ad for a similar tanks viedeo game chip and there probably were even more. It cost something like $5.95, not much even in 1980. What computer to get if you want to learn all about microprocessors.[^] In the same issue: Computer control for the robot![^]
I have lived with several Zen masters - all of them were cats. His last invention was an evil Lasagna. It didn't kill anyone, and it actually tasted pretty good.
Because this was the heyday of the hobbyist. Then we shot ourselves in the foot by getting jobs, thinking we could get paid to do this fun stuff. It was still fun for a while. Then eventually it became a job. :sigh:
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We are pioneers. Once things get consumer friendly we lose interest. It's in the blood. Discovering is much funnier than simply braindead producing.
GCS d-- s-/++ a- C++++ U+++ P- L+@ E-- W++ N+ o+ K- w+++ O? M-- V? PS+ PE- Y+ PGP t+ 5? X R+++ tv-- b+(+++) DI+++ D++ G e++ h--- ++>+++ y+++* Weapons extension: ma- k++ F+2 X
den2k88 wrote:
Discovering is much funnier than simply braindead producing.
You do not like working on the assembly line? :rolleyes: Me either. X| And here is the interesting part... As software development absorbs more process and more patterns it becomes more like assembly-line coding and you transform from an artist to a key-presser. However, with no process things are terrible -- some developers act like every project is a new piece of art that has zero process and they are the magicians. :sigh: That's bad. But, as software development nears the 100% repeatable process it becomes total monotony. X|
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den2k88 wrote:
Discovering is much funnier than simply braindead producing.
You do not like working on the assembly line? :rolleyes: Me either. X| And here is the interesting part... As software development absorbs more process and more patterns it becomes more like assembly-line coding and you transform from an artist to a key-presser. However, with no process things are terrible -- some developers act like every project is a new piece of art that has zero process and they are the magicians. :sigh: That's bad. But, as software development nears the 100% repeatable process it becomes total monotony. X|
Processes are good. Cobbling together anything written by others in the dirtiest possible way are not an acceptable process, nor are good. X|
GCS d-- s-/++ a- C++++ U+++ P- L+@ E-- W++ N+ o+ K- w+++ O? M-- V? PS+ PE- Y+ PGP t+ 5? X R+++ tv-- b+(+++) DI+++ D++ G e++ h--- ++>+++ y+++* Weapons extension: ma- k++ F+2 X
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Processes are good. Cobbling together anything written by others in the dirtiest possible way are not an acceptable process, nor are good. X|
GCS d-- s-/++ a- C++++ U+++ P- L+@ E-- W++ N+ o+ K- w+++ O? M-- V? PS+ PE- Y+ PGP t+ 5? X R+++ tv-- b+(+++) DI+++ D++ G e++ h--- ++>+++ y+++* Weapons extension: ma- k++ F+2 X
Yes, process is good. I'm thinking you are agreeing with me. :) Imagine if there was a giant library which had every function you'd ever need. You'd just drag and drop the functions you want into a file in the order you want them to work and voila! You're done. This is process in the extreme. Very repeatable. Very boring. The ultimate CASE tool[^]!
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Yes, process is good. I'm thinking you are agreeing with me. :) Imagine if there was a giant library which had every function you'd ever need. You'd just drag and drop the functions you want into a file in the order you want them to work and voila! You're done. This is process in the extreme. Very repeatable. Very boring. The ultimate CASE tool[^]!
raddevus wrote:
You'd just drag and drop the functions you want into a file in the order you want them to work and voila! You're done. This is process in the extreme. Very repeatable. Very boring
And very unlikely... at least for all the software that isn't mass produced. Modern websites might be buildable this way but every other type of software (firmware and specialized sw) is next to impossible to be done like this in a viable way.
GCS d-- s-/++ a- C++++ U+++ P- L+@ E-- W++ N+ o+ K- w+++ O? M-- V? PS+ PE- Y+ PGP t+ 5? X R+++ tv-- b+(+++) DI+++ D++ G e++ h--- ++>+++ y+++* Weapons extension: ma- k++ F+2 X
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raddevus wrote:
You'd just drag and drop the functions you want into a file in the order you want them to work and voila! You're done. This is process in the extreme. Very repeatable. Very boring
And very unlikely... at least for all the software that isn't mass produced. Modern websites might be buildable this way but every other type of software (firmware and specialized sw) is next to impossible to be done like this in a viable way.
GCS d-- s-/++ a- C++++ U+++ P- L+@ E-- W++ N+ o+ K- w+++ O? M-- V? PS+ PE- Y+ PGP t+ 5? X R+++ tv-- b+(+++) DI+++ D++ G e++ h--- ++>+++ y+++* Weapons extension: ma- k++ F+2 X
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I believe you are agreeing with me again. :rolleyes: I don't want to work on an assembly line either. :) So, I am glad that CASE tools fail. Now, AI on the other hand will probably write better software than all of us humans. :rolleyes:
raddevus wrote:
Now, AI on the other hand will probably write better software than all of us humans. :rolleyes:
But will it resist armor piercing incendiary rounds? :D maybe one day infantry combat experience will become a required skill for a developer :D
GCS d-- s-/++ a- C++++ U+++ P- L+@ E-- W++ N+ o+ K- w+++ O? M-- V? PS+ PE- Y+ PGP t+ 5? X R+++ tv-- b+(+++) DI+++ D++ G e++ h--- ++>+++ y+++* Weapons extension: ma- k++ F+2 X
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You make me want to go down in my basement to dig up all my old BYTE issues from the late 1970s - I never got my collection complete from Isusse #1, but it is close. One of the 70's DYI projects that I remeber well was a computer controlled wood stove. This guy had build a container for finely cut wood (it wasn't pellets, but roughly that size, I believe) with a funnel into his stove, so the wood could fall down by gravitation. This must have been a few years before the IBM PC; the computer may have been an Altair or Imsai, controlling the motor opening the hatch allowing more wood to fall down, and the motor opening/closing the air vent. What I don't remember is how he read the inputs - you couldn't simply buy a USB thermometer in those days... When the magazines are ten years old, everybody ask "Why don't you throw that old shit out?" If you stubbornly cling to the magazines until they are fourty, everybody gasps: "What a treasure!"
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Do you really program toasters? Or are you one of those spammers that use gadgets to create spam bot nets and get money with not so ethical processes?
M.D.V. ;) If something has a solution... Why do we have to worry about?. If it has no solution... For what reason do we have to worry about? Help me to understand what I'm saying, and I'll explain it better to you Rating helpful answers is nice, but saying thanks can be even nicer.
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You make me want to go down in my basement to dig up all my old BYTE issues from the late 1970s - I never got my collection complete from Isusse #1, but it is close. One of the 70's DYI projects that I remeber well was a computer controlled wood stove. This guy had build a container for finely cut wood (it wasn't pellets, but roughly that size, I believe) with a funnel into his stove, so the wood could fall down by gravitation. This must have been a few years before the IBM PC; the computer may have been an Altair or Imsai, controlling the motor opening the hatch allowing more wood to fall down, and the motor opening/closing the air vent. What I don't remember is how he read the inputs - you couldn't simply buy a USB thermometer in those days... When the magazines are ten years old, everybody ask "Why don't you throw that old shit out?" If you stubbornly cling to the magazines until they are fourty, everybody gasps: "What a treasure!"
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I have been reading electronics magazines from the late 1970s and early 1980s. I had some of the issues and always wanted to read the articles in the issues I missed. Besides those which are relevant to my (then and now) interests, there are many more articles which promise lots of tinkering and fun. Examples? Build yourself a modem and get your box online.[^] The parts list for the modem includes lumber and a tennis ball. :-) Build a robot. With arms and sensors, not just a little toy.[^] Now, where did I see such a robot before? Build a raceway video game console.[^] These games on a chip obviously were popular at the time. Somewhere in the same issue there is an ad for a similar tanks viedeo game chip and there probably were even more. It cost something like $5.95, not much even in 1980. What computer to get if you want to learn all about microprocessors.[^] In the same issue: Computer control for the robot![^]
I have lived with several Zen masters - all of them were cats. His last invention was an evil Lasagna. It didn't kill anyone, and it actually tasted pretty good.
You're looking for fun in the wrong places today. Sites like [Hackaday](https://hackaday.com/) cover doing low level in the weeds electronics projects now.
Did you ever see history portrayed as an old man with a wise brow and pulseless heart, weighing all things in the balance of reason? Is not rather the genius of history like an eternal, imploring maiden, full of fire, with a burning heart and flaming soul, humanly warm and humanly beautiful? --Zachris Topelius Training a telescope on one’s own belly button will only reveal lint. You like that? You go right on staring at it. I prefer looking at galaxies. -- Sarah Hoyt
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Sadly it's a common forma mentis these days, even without descending in the monkey show that is QA. I had colleagues that instead of thinking 5 minutes to a solution spent days looking for premade solutions and designed convoluted ways to glue them together. The end results were bug ridden, unmaintaineable and crumbled at the first change. The simple idea of devising an algorithm was alien to them because "it's not possible to do better than the ones other people already made". Basically they were factory workers, you could swap programming with bending iron bars and they would hardly notice.
GCS d-- s-/++ a- C++++ U+++ P- L+@ E-- W++ N+ o+ K- w+++ O? M-- V? PS+ PE- Y+ PGP t+ 5? X R+++ tv-- b+(+++) DI+++ D++ G e++ h--- ++>+++ y+++* Weapons extension: ma- k++ F+2 X
A colleague made a similar comment... On a teleconference people were discussing a months long time lines to evaluate and implement some enterprisey solution to perform load testing. Colleague speaking: We capture enough information in our production log files so we can replay the logs against a test setup. Just a few hours of work to extract the info into a replay format. There was a long silence on the line... "Moving onto the next topic...".
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I have been reading electronics magazines from the late 1970s and early 1980s. I had some of the issues and always wanted to read the articles in the issues I missed. Besides those which are relevant to my (then and now) interests, there are many more articles which promise lots of tinkering and fun. Examples? Build yourself a modem and get your box online.[^] The parts list for the modem includes lumber and a tennis ball. :-) Build a robot. With arms and sensors, not just a little toy.[^] Now, where did I see such a robot before? Build a raceway video game console.[^] These games on a chip obviously were popular at the time. Somewhere in the same issue there is an ad for a similar tanks viedeo game chip and there probably were even more. It cost something like $5.95, not much even in 1980. What computer to get if you want to learn all about microprocessors.[^] In the same issue: Computer control for the robot![^]
I have lived with several Zen masters - all of them were cats. His last invention was an evil Lasagna. It didn't kill anyone, and it actually tasted pretty good.
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I have been reading electronics magazines from the late 1970s and early 1980s. I had some of the issues and always wanted to read the articles in the issues I missed. Besides those which are relevant to my (then and now) interests, there are many more articles which promise lots of tinkering and fun. Examples? Build yourself a modem and get your box online.[^] The parts list for the modem includes lumber and a tennis ball. :-) Build a robot. With arms and sensors, not just a little toy.[^] Now, where did I see such a robot before? Build a raceway video game console.[^] These games on a chip obviously were popular at the time. Somewhere in the same issue there is an ad for a similar tanks viedeo game chip and there probably were even more. It cost something like $5.95, not much even in 1980. What computer to get if you want to learn all about microprocessors.[^] In the same issue: Computer control for the robot![^]
I have lived with several Zen masters - all of them were cats. His last invention was an evil Lasagna. It didn't kill anyone, and it actually tasted pretty good.
Oddly, I believe it is the artist within each person. I was a scientist, a mathematician. Artists were that odd lot that lived in the eclectic dorm. I have never had any talent: musical or artistic, and no desire to perform in front of an audience. Nonetheless, the "fun", I think, is the creative element of any endeavor. Architecting a building is fun; engineering the stress requirements is tedious. Developing an operational budget is engaging; accounting for individual line-items sucks. Developing a novel is captivating; cranking out formula romance novels is dreary. "Art" is a part of software development. Every developer I know spends 90% of his time "painting the screen": what color to use, where should that button be located, etc. Sadly, that means he then has to find and cobble together the "boring" pieces, in his remaining 10% of time, that actually do the work. Forty years ago, we created "masterpieces" of coding that today would repulse us. Today, we have "experts" who have analyzed, homogenized and pasteurized every aspect of software development. We have developed repeatable processes and reportable performance metrics. We read this expertise and adopt it, or have it foisted upon us, so that we, too, can be "respectable". Throughout history, art has NEVER been respectable. So, we are creating conflict within our very selves. In short, we turned the process into a business rather than an art, and that has drained the fun from it.
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I have been reading electronics magazines from the late 1970s and early 1980s. I had some of the issues and always wanted to read the articles in the issues I missed. Besides those which are relevant to my (then and now) interests, there are many more articles which promise lots of tinkering and fun. Examples? Build yourself a modem and get your box online.[^] The parts list for the modem includes lumber and a tennis ball. :-) Build a robot. With arms and sensors, not just a little toy.[^] Now, where did I see such a robot before? Build a raceway video game console.[^] These games on a chip obviously were popular at the time. Somewhere in the same issue there is an ad for a similar tanks viedeo game chip and there probably were even more. It cost something like $5.95, not much even in 1980. What computer to get if you want to learn all about microprocessors.[^] In the same issue: Computer control for the robot![^]
I have lived with several Zen masters - all of them were cats. His last invention was an evil Lasagna. It didn't kill anyone, and it actually tasted pretty good.
I was working back then. It wasn't more fun. It was the same grind that it is today. Just different and more primitive. I worked at a bank and the computer was a Burroughs 400. It took up a 600+ square foot room, it had 4K of ram, multiple tape drives and the program had to be loaded from Punch Cards. Once. one of my co-workers dropped a box of several hundred cards, while carrying it to the card reader to load a program. It took an extra 40 minutes or so to resort them into proper order again, so we could run the program. :omg: X| Nostalgia isn't that great if you had to live through those "good old days". One good thing about those days, we didn't have to put up with social media, "robo-calls", Uber, etc.
The more things change, the more they stay the same....
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Do you really program toasters? Or are you one of those spammers that use gadgets to create spam bot nets and get money with not so ethical processes?
M.D.V. ;) If something has a solution... Why do we have to worry about?. If it has no solution... For what reason do we have to worry about? Help me to understand what I'm saying, and I'll explain it better to you Rating helpful answers is nice, but saying thanks can be even nicer.
Actually, I do not know if I program toasters. Well, I certainly do not program the toaster application, but the core software for the embedded processor. I know that some of our customers embed our processors in rice cookers and even forks(!). Using them in toasters as well seems like a small step. If that is the case: Yes, I am responsible for some of the toaster software. A few years ago, over the luch table my project group was discussing "the meaning of life", or specifically: Our working day life. The general agreement was that the world really doesn't "need" any of the products using our chips. They are just gadgets, toys, for enjoyment. In some cases they make life "simpler": You don't have to raise up to turn on the light switch, you can turn it on from your recliner using your smartphone. But that isn't a "need", it is just a convenience matter.
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Because this was the heyday of the hobbyist. Then we shot ourselves in the foot by getting jobs, thinking we could get paid to do this fun stuff. It was still fun for a while. Then eventually it became a job. :sigh:
Latest Article - Building a Prototype Web-Based Diagramming Tool with SVG and Javascript Learning to code with python is like learning to swim with those little arm floaties. It gives you undeserved confidence and will eventually drown you. - DangerBunny Artificial intelligence is the only remedy for natural stupidity. - CDP1802
I made the right choice regarding music: In my youth, I seriously considered taking a music education, becoming a professional in the field of classical music. Except for the small problem that I was far from good enough: When I now look upon those musicians who have managed to get safe jobs in a symphony orchestra - what a boring life! Every week yet another symphony. Maybe accompanying some soloist in a small concerto. Next week, another symphony, another concerto. Every Christmas audiences demanding that we play all the same boring music that we have played dozens of times before... Today I am so happy that I never got close to my old dream of making classical music for a living: I still love music! And I have (and use) the freedom to go on to other musical styles, decided by my personal preferences this year, without worrying about my income. Rather, progamming went from being fun to being a chore, just for earning money. Yet I am happy that I ruined the joy of programming and kept the joy of music, rather than the other way around.
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Actually, I do not know if I program toasters. Well, I certainly do not program the toaster application, but the core software for the embedded processor. I know that some of our customers embed our processors in rice cookers and even forks(!). Using them in toasters as well seems like a small step. If that is the case: Yes, I am responsible for some of the toaster software. A few years ago, over the luch table my project group was discussing "the meaning of life", or specifically: Our working day life. The general agreement was that the world really doesn't "need" any of the products using our chips. They are just gadgets, toys, for enjoyment. In some cases they make life "simpler": You don't have to raise up to turn on the light switch, you can turn it on from your recliner using your smartphone. But that isn't a "need", it is just a convenience matter.
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You don't have to raise up to turn on the light switch, you can turn it on from your recliner using your smartphone. But that isn't a "need", it is just a convenience matter.
Don't rush to judgement, the person you are referring to could be physically disabled by a lack of legs or motivation to get up and do it himself. On a serious note, if you ever really go into the "Necessities of Life" discussion again, you should really start to consider each and everything that you utilize or consume, I think you will find that apart from a very limited and short stack (not even sure it would even make into a stack) there is nothing that you really need, but either provides comfort or is a means to comfort. To use your example
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You don't have to raise up to turn on the light switch
You could also consider the light switch it self a comfort, since it comforts you by making you believe you will not get shocked by electricity and also succeeds in its purpose. Talking about that light bulb now, do you really need it? Or can you make do without one? I believe the answer is you can do without it, it will decrease your night productivity but also has the potential to increase your day's productivity. Now that you've eliminated light bulb you can eliminate electricity and go on to eliminate many of the other necessities of modern time. Don't get me wrong I'm not against technology, heck my field is software development, I may just be more a philosopher than I am Programmer.
