Original Windows 10 October Update File Deletion Explained
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Scary in the extreme...they make a design decision to delete a user file (any user file), they don't carefully consider the consequences of this decision, they don't provide a recovery mechanism (in case the user really wanted that file), and finally their QA department (assuming there is one) doesn't check that all user data is retained. To me, this demonstrates a break-down at almost every level of process. For me, "don't lose my stuff" is the primary responsibility of an OS, followed closely by: "secure my stuff" and "try not to crash too often" :)
Eric Lynch wrote:
delete a user file
That's why Microsoft stopped the update - a simple bug does not do that, but this one is a perfect case for lawsuit and money...
"The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge". Stephen Hawking, 1942- 2018
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When you are dead, you won't even know that you are dead. It's a pain only felt by others. Same thing when you are stupid.
Visionary :thumbsup:
M.D.V. ;) If something has a solution... Why do we have to worry about?. If it has no solution... For what reason do we have to worry about? Help me to understand what I'm saying, and I'll explain it better to you Rating helpful answers is nice, but saying thanks can be even nicer.
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... or anyone clever enough to post a question in QA that ends with the words, "but does not work". :rolleyes:
Oh, darn! I knew I forgot something with the question I just posted[^]! No job for me??? :laugh: :laugh:
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I just read the following explanation of why the original Windows 10 October update (which was withdrawn) deleted files (potentially lots of them)… Windows 10 October 2018 Update no longer deletes your data | Ars Technica[^] BEGIN RANT Wow! This is what happens when a thoughtless design and poor QA combine to produce devastating consequences. MS seems to continually get worse at updates. I am already depressingly familiar with the annoyance of "fixing" broken updates. Now, apparently, I have to worry about significant data loss as well. I truly hope MS finally learns a long overdue lesson. They have to get back to basics. Their update mechanism is desperately in need of a re-design. It's flaky, unstable, and now (IMHO) among the worst in the industry. Also, they have to place more value on QA. This was not an edge case and should have been caught (quite easily) before release. Nowadays, they seem to use their customers as a QA department. END RANT
It's nice to have an explanation finally. Given that, I don't use KFR (at least, not to my knowledge, haha) and I never put stuff in the Documents, Desktop, Pictures, and Screenshots folders. Never have, since, what was it, Windows ME introduced the "My" root path? X|
Latest Article - A Concise Overview of Threads Learning to code with python is like learning to swim with those little arm floaties. It gives you undeserved confidence and will eventually drown you. - DangerBunny Artificial intelligence is the only remedy for natural stupidity. - CDP1802
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It's nice to have an explanation finally. Given that, I don't use KFR (at least, not to my knowledge, haha) and I never put stuff in the Documents, Desktop, Pictures, and Screenshots folders. Never have, since, what was it, Windows ME introduced the "My" root path? X|
Latest Article - A Concise Overview of Threads Learning to code with python is like learning to swim with those little arm floaties. It gives you undeserved confidence and will eventually drown you. - DangerBunny Artificial intelligence is the only remedy for natural stupidity. - CDP1802
I've worked for companies that were so strict on the security of your local box, those were the only folders you had access to. Just imagine all of your project files in the documents folder and support pushes out an update like this. Yes, I do keep multiple backups of all of my project files. :-\
When you are dead, you won't even know that you are dead. It's a pain only felt by others. Same thing when you are stupid.
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It's nice to have an explanation finally. Given that, I don't use KFR (at least, not to my knowledge, haha) and I never put stuff in the Documents, Desktop, Pictures, and Screenshots folders. Never have, since, what was it, Windows ME introduced the "My" root path? X|
Latest Article - A Concise Overview of Threads Learning to code with python is like learning to swim with those little arm floaties. It gives you undeserved confidence and will eventually drown you. - DangerBunny Artificial intelligence is the only remedy for natural stupidity. - CDP1802
Thankfully, it didn't make it to my PC during its brief availability. I definitely would have got hit by it. I use KFR all over the place. Though, it probably would have done minimal damage. I'm good about backups...and backups of my backups...and so on. OK, maybe a little paranoia at work there? :)
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I just read the following explanation of why the original Windows 10 October update (which was withdrawn) deleted files (potentially lots of them)… Windows 10 October 2018 Update no longer deletes your data | Ars Technica[^] BEGIN RANT Wow! This is what happens when a thoughtless design and poor QA combine to produce devastating consequences. MS seems to continually get worse at updates. I am already depressingly familiar with the annoyance of "fixing" broken updates. Now, apparently, I have to worry about significant data loss as well. I truly hope MS finally learns a long overdue lesson. They have to get back to basics. Their update mechanism is desperately in need of a re-design. It's flaky, unstable, and now (IMHO) among the worst in the industry. Also, they have to place more value on QA. This was not an edge case and should have been caught (quite easily) before release. Nowadays, they seem to use their customers as a QA department. END RANT
Eric Lynch wrote:
Nowadays, they seem to use their customers as a QA department.
Nowadays? It's always been the case.
#SupportHeForShe Government can give you nothing but what it takes from somebody else. A government big enough to give you everything you want is big enough to take everything you've got, including your freedom.-Ezra Taft Benson You must accept 1 of 2 basic premises: Either we are alone in the universe or we are not alone. Either way, the implications are staggering!-Wernher von Braun
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My guess is they are only hiring sales people for engineering positions now. That is the only thing I can see to explain the decisions they have been making. X|
I think it is more a case of allowing sales people to make too many very important decisions. In other words, I think their priorities are misplaced. Doing the right thing does not seem to be in their top handful of priorities because it is obviously not being taken seriously enough right now. Then again, it is possible that my concept of doing the right thing differs from theirs but I suspect I have gone full circle now. I consider preserving a customer's data is THE highest priority and doing everything possible to maintain that is the right thing. I get the impression that at Microsoft the highest priority is getting the monthly or quarterly update out on schedule and I could not disagree more with that. I truly hope that a major lawsuit is enough motivation for a serious course correction to occur there.
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I think it is more a case of allowing sales people to make too many very important decisions. In other words, I think their priorities are misplaced. Doing the right thing does not seem to be in their top handful of priorities because it is obviously not being taken seriously enough right now. Then again, it is possible that my concept of doing the right thing differs from theirs but I suspect I have gone full circle now. I consider preserving a customer's data is THE highest priority and doing everything possible to maintain that is the right thing. I get the impression that at Microsoft the highest priority is getting the monthly or quarterly update out on schedule and I could not disagree more with that. I truly hope that a major lawsuit is enough motivation for a serious course correction to occur there.
My reply was a bit tongue-in-cheek, and I agree with you to an extent. But I have begun to feel that Nadella and Company believe the Home user is not their real customer, as we don't make them enough money. Enterprises are where they focus their attention, and Home users are their testing grounds for Enterprise adoption. The real engineers have to live with those decisions, because the powers that be bow to the shareholders more than the market. Those 'powers' view the initial release as trivial, because it won't affect Enterprises, and will give them the testing for Enterprise adoption. Pretty scary/sad to drop $120 and be treated like you are only data.
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I just read the following explanation of why the original Windows 10 October update (which was withdrawn) deleted files (potentially lots of them)… Windows 10 October 2018 Update no longer deletes your data | Ars Technica[^] BEGIN RANT Wow! This is what happens when a thoughtless design and poor QA combine to produce devastating consequences. MS seems to continually get worse at updates. I am already depressingly familiar with the annoyance of "fixing" broken updates. Now, apparently, I have to worry about significant data loss as well. I truly hope MS finally learns a long overdue lesson. They have to get back to basics. Their update mechanism is desperately in need of a re-design. It's flaky, unstable, and now (IMHO) among the worst in the industry. Also, they have to place more value on QA. This was not an edge case and should have been caught (quite easily) before release. Nowadays, they seem to use their customers as a QA department. END RANT
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What mechanism did it use to delete the folders? What happened to 'folder not empty, can't delete' errors?
We won't sit down. We won't shut up. We won't go quietly away. YouTube, VidMe and My Mu[sic], Films and Windows Programs, etc. and FB
Whatever happened to "make a backup before you change anything"? Of course, if the update sneaks up on you then you don't get to make that backup. Incidentally, what's with all the garbage that gets pushed out with all these updates. For the record, I don't have a 3-D printer. I don't use virtual reality, I'm having enough trouble with real reality. I don't like 3-D paint. It's horrible. I no longer use Skype since MS broke it. The Mail app is useless to me. Cortana seems to be deaf in my part of the world. And so on. All this stuff gets re-installed whenever I try to remove it. Just to please the sales department I guess.
We're philosophical about power outages here. A.C. come, A.C. go.
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Whatever happened to "make a backup before you change anything"? Of course, if the update sneaks up on you then you don't get to make that backup. Incidentally, what's with all the garbage that gets pushed out with all these updates. For the record, I don't have a 3-D printer. I don't use virtual reality, I'm having enough trouble with real reality. I don't like 3-D paint. It's horrible. I no longer use Skype since MS broke it. The Mail app is useless to me. Cortana seems to be deaf in my part of the world. And so on. All this stuff gets re-installed whenever I try to remove it. Just to please the sales department I guess.
We're philosophical about power outages here. A.C. come, A.C. go.
Herbie Mountjoy wrote:
All this stuff gets re-installed whenever I try to remove it.
Have a look at Windows 10 Decrapifier, 1803/1809 - Script Center - Spiceworks[^]. If you read the notes/instructions you are meant to run this during the installation of Windows to do it right. If you run it it won't affect the current logged in user but, and I mean but, it might work for you if you enable and login as the Builtin Administrator, then login as yourself and disable Administrator again. Haven't had time to play with this myself yet so can't vouch for it.
Michael Martin Australia "I controlled my laughter and simple said "No,I am very busy,so I can't write any code for you". The moment they heard this all the smiling face turned into a sad looking face and one of them farted. So I had to leave the place as soon as possible." - Mr.Prakash One Fine Saturday. 24/04/2004
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I just read the following explanation of why the original Windows 10 October update (which was withdrawn) deleted files (potentially lots of them)… Windows 10 October 2018 Update no longer deletes your data | Ars Technica[^] BEGIN RANT Wow! This is what happens when a thoughtless design and poor QA combine to produce devastating consequences. MS seems to continually get worse at updates. I am already depressingly familiar with the annoyance of "fixing" broken updates. Now, apparently, I have to worry about significant data loss as well. I truly hope MS finally learns a long overdue lesson. They have to get back to basics. Their update mechanism is desperately in need of a re-design. It's flaky, unstable, and now (IMHO) among the worst in the industry. Also, they have to place more value on QA. This was not an edge case and should have been caught (quite easily) before release. Nowadays, they seem to use their customers as a QA department. END RANT
Under no circumstances I will leave updates enabled on my computer. I update when I need to. That holds true for Linux distributions too - I had several systems killed by some package update.
GCS d-- s-/++ a- C++++ U+++ P- L+@ E-- W++ N+ o+ K- w+++ O? M-- V? PS+ PE- Y+ PGP t+ 5? X R+++ tv-- b+(+++) DI+++ D++ G e++ h--- ++>+++ y+++* Weapons extension: ma- k++ F+2 X
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Herbie Mountjoy wrote:
All this stuff gets re-installed whenever I try to remove it.
Have a look at Windows 10 Decrapifier, 1803/1809 - Script Center - Spiceworks[^]. If you read the notes/instructions you are meant to run this during the installation of Windows to do it right. If you run it it won't affect the current logged in user but, and I mean but, it might work for you if you enable and login as the Builtin Administrator, then login as yourself and disable Administrator again. Haven't had time to play with this myself yet so can't vouch for it.
Michael Martin Australia "I controlled my laughter and simple said "No,I am very busy,so I can't write any code for you". The moment they heard this all the smiling face turned into a sad looking face and one of them farted. So I had to leave the place as soon as possible." - Mr.Prakash One Fine Saturday. 24/04/2004
Thanks Michael. I will look at this.
We're philosophical about power outages here. A.C. come, A.C. go.
