Waiting for Harsh EU Response!
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Electric doesnt work for cars yet, too unreliable, slow to charge, limited range. It just cant deliver what petrol or alcohol can. The cost of nuclear is without accidents though, just the price per kilowatt, it actually is higher than coal or gas due to the complexity of processing the fuel.
Munchies_Matt wrote:
Electric doesnt work for cars yet, too unreliable, slow to charge, limited range. It just cant deliver what petrol or alcohol can.
The range is limited - but most drives are rather short. Tesla sales would seem to prove you wrong. The one parked outside my office window (not mine, alas) has a rather happy owner. As for the cost of nuclear? It is not as cheap as hydro=electric, but I live in a fossil fuel supplied area and I assure you, having amongst the highest electric rates in the USA, it is not more expensive than nuclear. Furthermore, nuclear generated electricity is stably priced as it doesn't need refueling very often and thus rather immune to price fluctuations from market speculators and wars and stuff. The processing of the fuel - technology available in the 1940's - isn't not that complex. Using breeder reactors it becomes even easier and availability of fuel increases tremendously. (From 0.72 % U235 of natural abundance). We'd hardly have to mine the stuff in that case.
"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein
"If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you are seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010
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Munchies_Matt wrote:
Electric doesnt work for cars yet, too unreliable, slow to charge, limited range. It just cant deliver what petrol or alcohol can.
The range is limited - but most drives are rather short. Tesla sales would seem to prove you wrong. The one parked outside my office window (not mine, alas) has a rather happy owner. As for the cost of nuclear? It is not as cheap as hydro=electric, but I live in a fossil fuel supplied area and I assure you, having amongst the highest electric rates in the USA, it is not more expensive than nuclear. Furthermore, nuclear generated electricity is stably priced as it doesn't need refueling very often and thus rather immune to price fluctuations from market speculators and wars and stuff. The processing of the fuel - technology available in the 1940's - isn't not that complex. Using breeder reactors it becomes even easier and availability of fuel increases tremendously. (From 0.72 % U235 of natural abundance). We'd hardly have to mine the stuff in that case.
"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein
"If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you are seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010
You probably have green taxes on your coal supplied electricity pushing the price up. But I havent been keeping up with the prices, perhaps nuclear has come down (my understanding is based on prices I saw probably 20 years ago). THe question is how well does an electric car do in 20 years? Can it still hold a charge? New batteries every 7 years could be a major problem, and I believe it is.
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You probably have green taxes on your coal supplied electricity pushing the price up. But I havent been keeping up with the prices, perhaps nuclear has come down (my understanding is based on prices I saw probably 20 years ago). THe question is how well does an electric car do in 20 years? Can it still hold a charge? New batteries every 7 years could be a major problem, and I believe it is.
Munchies_Matt wrote:
THe question is how well does an electric car do in 20 years?
Apply that standard to gasoline and diesel vehicles! They don't do very well. A few exceptions, at very high prices, but for the most part they're built to fail. From a google search: "price of nuclear vs fossil electric power"
The cost of producing nuclear-generated electricity in 2007 was 1.7 cents per kilowatt-hour, compared with 2.4 cents for coal, 6.7 cents for natural gas and 10.2 cents for oil. In other words, the cost of nuclear-generated electricity was nearly one-third less than power produced at a natural gas plant.Feb 24, 2009
Now, I found this[^], but honestly, I can find whatever data you want to prove what you want. Comparisons like these are typically done with an agenda. Many years ago, however, when I lived in Chicago, they had mostly nuclear power for electricity at roughly $0.05/kwh whilst back in fossil-fuel southern NY, it was more like $0.15/kwh. Upstate NY, which had hydroelectric, was $0.02/kwh. All we need are more convenient waterfalls.
"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein
"If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you are seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010
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Munchies_Matt wrote:
THe question is how well does an electric car do in 20 years?
Apply that standard to gasoline and diesel vehicles! They don't do very well. A few exceptions, at very high prices, but for the most part they're built to fail. From a google search: "price of nuclear vs fossil electric power"
The cost of producing nuclear-generated electricity in 2007 was 1.7 cents per kilowatt-hour, compared with 2.4 cents for coal, 6.7 cents for natural gas and 10.2 cents for oil. In other words, the cost of nuclear-generated electricity was nearly one-third less than power produced at a natural gas plant.Feb 24, 2009
Now, I found this[^], but honestly, I can find whatever data you want to prove what you want. Comparisons like these are typically done with an agenda. Many years ago, however, when I lived in Chicago, they had mostly nuclear power for electricity at roughly $0.05/kwh whilst back in fossil-fuel southern NY, it was more like $0.15/kwh. Upstate NY, which had hydroelectric, was $0.02/kwh. All we need are more convenient waterfalls.
"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein
"If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you are seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010
In todays world it is hard to know who to believe, there is so much spin, so many agendas, that you need to really dig into the data yourself. So yes, perhaps nuclear is cheaper. I am certainly not against it, nor is the idea of radiation scary (we live in an area with a lot of Radon gas, our house, 150 years old (lived there for 20 years, back now), is way above the safe limit :) ) I have heard stories of electric car batteries needing to be replaced just because the cars werent used that much, at a cost of 20,000 dollars. Thats a ridiculous amount compared to the running costs of a petrol car.
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In todays world it is hard to know who to believe, there is so much spin, so many agendas, that you need to really dig into the data yourself. So yes, perhaps nuclear is cheaper. I am certainly not against it, nor is the idea of radiation scary (we live in an area with a lot of Radon gas, our house, 150 years old (lived there for 20 years, back now), is way above the safe limit :) ) I have heard stories of electric car batteries needing to be replaced just because the cars werent used that much, at a cost of 20,000 dollars. Thats a ridiculous amount compared to the running costs of a petrol car.
Just a note on information rarely mentioned: The nuclear emissions from a coal-fired plan are not regulated. As it turn out, it's not uncommon for coal contain uranium an thorium. Uranium, is in fact, a rather abundant element but it's generally too widely dispersed to be mineable (hence it's value). Anyway, the point is, when you burn the coal the uranium and thorium are concentrated in the ash. Where I live, they actually forbade the disposal of coal ash because it was too radioactive. Moreover, most coal plant use a static precipitator to keep ash from going up the chimneys and decorating the neighborhood for miles around. Alas - a small amount of a radio isotope will nullify the effects of the precipitator so the plant's radioactive waste emission (unregulated - it is coal!) can exceed those of a nuclear plant. The $20K battery replacement is just like it sounds ("heard stories"). I've "heard stories" about all kinds of things . . . . . . .
"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein
"If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you are seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010
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Just a note on information rarely mentioned: The nuclear emissions from a coal-fired plan are not regulated. As it turn out, it's not uncommon for coal contain uranium an thorium. Uranium, is in fact, a rather abundant element but it's generally too widely dispersed to be mineable (hence it's value). Anyway, the point is, when you burn the coal the uranium and thorium are concentrated in the ash. Where I live, they actually forbade the disposal of coal ash because it was too radioactive. Moreover, most coal plant use a static precipitator to keep ash from going up the chimneys and decorating the neighborhood for miles around. Alas - a small amount of a radio isotope will nullify the effects of the precipitator so the plant's radioactive waste emission (unregulated - it is coal!) can exceed those of a nuclear plant. The $20K battery replacement is just like it sounds ("heard stories"). I've "heard stories" about all kinds of things . . . . . . .
"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein
"If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you are seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010
Of course, Curie isolated these elements from pitch! :) Look at this: The most radioactive parts of the UK | MrReid.org[^] See that big red patch? Yep, thats Devon granite! :)
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Of course, Curie isolated these elements from pitch! :) Look at this: The most radioactive parts of the UK | MrReid.org[^] See that big red patch? Yep, thats Devon granite! :)
Munchies_Matt wrote:
Of course, Curie isolated these elements from pitch!
I hope that smiley was for a joke. If not, it was pitchblende[^], a mineral. Decidedly non-flammable.
"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein
"If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you are seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010
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Munchies_Matt wrote:
Of course, Curie isolated these elements from pitch!
I hope that smiley was for a joke. If not, it was pitchblende[^], a mineral. Decidedly non-flammable.
"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein
"If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you are seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010
I might pretend it was intentional. :)
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DRHuff wrote:
Rational educated people don't seem to breed fast enough to replace themselves
Something they are proud of.
DRHuff wrote:
what replaces them won't look much like Europe
That's how it is supposed to work; if Europeans can't adapt, they'll be replaced by something that does.
DRHuff wrote:
And hoping that you can convert enough of the newcomers to your rational view given the history of integration in Europe is certainly not rational!
I do not need to convert anyone; it may take a few centuries, but all religions will eventually be replaced.
Bastard Programmer from Hell :suss: If you can't read my code, try converting it here[^] "If you just follow the bacon Eddy, wherever it leads you, then you won't have to think about politics." -- Some Bell.
Eddy Vluggen wrote:
it may take a few centuries, but all religions will eventually be replaced.
the question is... with what? Better or worse?
M.D.V. ;) If something has a solution... Why do we have to worry about?. If it has no solution... For what reason do we have to worry about? Help me to understand what I'm saying, and I'll explain it better to you Rating helpful answers is nice, but saying thanks can be even nicer.
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Eddy Vluggen wrote:
it may take a few centuries, but all religions will eventually be replaced.
the question is... with what? Better or worse?
M.D.V. ;) If something has a solution... Why do we have to worry about?. If it has no solution... For what reason do we have to worry about? Help me to understand what I'm saying, and I'll explain it better to you Rating helpful answers is nice, but saying thanks can be even nicer.
Nelek wrote:
the question is... with what? Better or worse?
Rationalism, and that's for the better.
Bastard Programmer from Hell :suss: If you can't read my code, try converting it here[^] "If you just follow the bacon Eddy, wherever it leads you, then you won't have to think about politics." -- Some Bell.
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Nelek wrote:
the question is... with what? Better or worse?
Rationalism, and that's for the better.
Bastard Programmer from Hell :suss: If you can't read my code, try converting it here[^] "If you just follow the bacon Eddy, wherever it leads you, then you won't have to think about politics." -- Some Bell.
God hear you :rolleyes: :rolleyes: ;P ;P :laugh: :laugh:
M.D.V. ;) If something has a solution... Why do we have to worry about?. If it has no solution... For what reason do we have to worry about? Help me to understand what I'm saying, and I'll explain it better to you Rating helpful answers is nice, but saying thanks can be even nicer.
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God hear you :rolleyes: :rolleyes: ;P ;P :laugh: :laugh:
M.D.V. ;) If something has a solution... Why do we have to worry about?. If it has no solution... For what reason do we have to worry about? Help me to understand what I'm saying, and I'll explain it better to you Rating helpful answers is nice, but saying thanks can be even nicer.
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:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :thumbsup::thumbsup:
M.D.V. ;) If something has a solution... Why do we have to worry about?. If it has no solution... For what reason do we have to worry about? Help me to understand what I'm saying, and I'll explain it better to you Rating helpful answers is nice, but saying thanks can be even nicer.
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Slacker007 wrote:
It has been around for thousands of years. How is that limited?
That something has been around for a long time is not an argument in any form; slavery has been around for a long time, doesn't mean it is a bad idea. Religion, or better, the belief in fairy-tales and nonsense from thousands of years ago cannot be combined with rational educated people. Belief in fantasy-people that live in the clouds will disappear, sooner or later.
Bastard Programmer from Hell :suss: If you can't read my code, try converting it here[^] "If you just follow the bacon Eddy, wherever it leads you, then you won't have to think about politics." -- Some Bell.
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Eddy Vluggen wrote:
Belief in fantasy-people that live in the clouds will disappear, sooner or later.
I see...so you believe that do you?
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Slacker007 wrote:
It has been around for thousands of years. How is that limited?
That something has been around for a long time is not an argument in any form; slavery has been around for a long time, doesn't mean it is a bad idea. Religion, or better, the belief in fairy-tales and nonsense from thousands of years ago cannot be combined with rational educated people. Belief in fantasy-people that live in the clouds will disappear, sooner or later.
Bastard Programmer from Hell :suss: If you can't read my code, try converting it here[^] "If you just follow the bacon Eddy, wherever it leads you, then you won't have to think about politics." -- Some Bell.
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What is the answer then to questions like, why are we here and what is our purpose? Is life basically about being born, go to school, then to college or university (if you can afford to), work and then retire at an old age (also if you can), and then die? Why be born then in the first place?