Matrix Reloaded - Theories - (SPOILERS!)
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John Honan wrote: Comments? It's all gonna end like that one Red Dwarf episode, where they wake up and all this time they thought they were fighting this huge dramatic battle, actually they were in a simulation they'd paid for to take their minds off their actual (horribly boring and mundane) lives. Neo is actually a VB programmer writing spaghetti code DB front-ends. Trinity is actually a 43yr old truckstop waitress. Morpheus is actually The Rev. Jesse Jackson. Of course, this'll be revealed allegorically, so it'll take everyone a while to catch on. The W Bros. will be laughing all the way to the bank... ;)
- Shog9 -
I'd show a smile but I'm too weak I'd share with you, could I only speak
A fellow Dawrfer!! I didn't know any existed in the US, oustide myself. The ep you're thinking of is Back To Reality. And I think it would be a travesty for Matrix to end like that. Yet at the same time, I'd admire the creators for having the balls to do that. .............Zack............. Developer Extraordinaire "It's all about function over form. I mean, look at NASA. Their code isn't formatted correctly and their stuff looks crappy, but, they'll get you to the moon." GCS\P\SS d- s-:- a-- C++$ U--- P--- L- E- W++ N o K-? w+++ O++ !M-- V PS+ PE Y+ PGP t+ 5+ X+ R++ tv++ b++ DI++ D+++ G+>G++++ e* h- r++ y+
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If you haven't seen the film then close this message now... There are some serious SPOILERS ahead!
* * * * * spoiler space - do not proceed if you haven't seen the film! * * * * *I've spent the whole day thinking about the meaning of Neo's conversation with the architect. As well as having a dream about it last night! The architect said there was an unavoidable imbalance created in the code for the Matrix. An imbalance that was caused by the human desire for free choice. The architect and the oracle realised after a few iterations, that 99% of humans would accept their existence in the Matrix - But 1% would want to 'free their minds' and escape into the real world. Zion was created as a Matrix outside the Matrix, a 'real world' Matrix to accommodate the 1% anomaly of minds that wanted to be free. By creating Zion, the architect had a place to store the 1% anomaly. There *is* a real world, but it exists *outside* of Zion. However, the people in Zion believe they are already free of the Matrix, and therefore no choice/imbalance exists. The real world *outside* the Zion Matrix may even be a normal earth (i.e. no scorched sky) This is the only way I can explain the fact the architect knew Neo had been there six times before, and that Zion had fallen six times before. If Zion really existed in the real world, how could it have fallen 6 times before? The fact that Neo chose the left door (the door leading to Trinity) is a pre-determined event. The architect knew Neo would make this choice again and again, thus closing off the threat to the Matrix source. Neo is starting to realise what is happening, his powers in the Zion Matrix (stopping the sentinels attacking with his hand) demonstrated this. The Zion Matrix has placed him in a coma until Zion falls, and the Matrix is reset once again (for the 7th time) Comments? John www.silveronion.com[^]:cool::rose:
[ It is possible to represent everything in this universe by using 0 and 1 ]
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------------- ------------- What about the theory that Agent Smith is really the 'One' ? Isnt he the other guy in the coma. Yes, there is a real world. They show that in the first Matrix. It is scorched earth ! I hope the ending is consistent with that. John Honan wrote: The architect knew Neo would make this choice again and again, thus closing off the threat to the Matrix source. I thought the previous six Neo's chose the other door. Neo was different because he chose to save Trinity. Of course the architect knew what choice Neo was going to make, but he did make a choice that was different from his six predecessors. OR Maybe I got the Architects message wrong !
I thought the televisions in the background showed Neo all moving the same direction, towards the Trinity door. The architect was sitting there, predicting exactly the thoughts and emotions that Neo was going through, and was able to predict that he'd take the Trinity door. John www.silveronion.com[^]
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This is my spin on some of your thoughts. Zion is a part of the Matrix yes. The real world actually is scorched and most likely dominated by machines. All those scenes we saw of the machines taking care of the human cocoons is real. The architect is a program, probably the very first intelligent machine that created teh other programs like the Oracle and the Agents. Neo is the 6th version of the One. The One being an accumulation of the mathematical equations that the architect cannot predict or figure out. Every time The One chooses a door, that acts as teh pre-cursor to another version of The One. The architect knew of the previous 5 versions because he/it has been around since the very start and is actually using The One's as a sort of experiment to try and get a perfect (ie. 100% controlled) environment which would be his perfect Matrix where there are no unpredictables. A perfect Mathematical state :) Now that Neo has done something the previous Ones hadn't done before, does this mean that the Architect is uncertain of what is going to happen?? How does Agent Smith (a superstar :) ) fit into the whole picture? If you saw the preview of the next Matrix after all the credits then it looks like Smith and Neo will somehow cause the fall of the Matrix and the creation of something completely new! More thoughts later when I clear my head again .. lol :) ..:: Keno ::..
keno wrote: saw the preview of the next Matrix No Way !!
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OK. I haven't read your post... because I haven't seen the film yet [I'm supposed to be there in 1.5 hours but I'll be stuck in work.. I'll probably see it tomorrow. So.. From one Irish man to another... is it crap/shite/ok/good/verygood/great? Regards, Brian Dela :-)
Mind-boggling special effects - It was really a case of "how the hell did they film *that* part?!" And the soundtrack, amazing.... ;) Just don't think about the film when you've left the cinema, it'll do your head in... Hence this thread! :eek: John www.silveronion.com[^]
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If you haven't seen the film then close this message now... There are some serious SPOILERS ahead!
* * * * * spoiler space - do not proceed if you haven't seen the film! * * * * *I've spent the whole day thinking about the meaning of Neo's conversation with the architect. As well as having a dream about it last night! The architect said there was an unavoidable imbalance created in the code for the Matrix. An imbalance that was caused by the human desire for free choice. The architect and the oracle realised after a few iterations, that 99% of humans would accept their existence in the Matrix - But 1% would want to 'free their minds' and escape into the real world. Zion was created as a Matrix outside the Matrix, a 'real world' Matrix to accommodate the 1% anomaly of minds that wanted to be free. By creating Zion, the architect had a place to store the 1% anomaly. There *is* a real world, but it exists *outside* of Zion. However, the people in Zion believe they are already free of the Matrix, and therefore no choice/imbalance exists. The real world *outside* the Zion Matrix may even be a normal earth (i.e. no scorched sky) This is the only way I can explain the fact the architect knew Neo had been there six times before, and that Zion had fallen six times before. If Zion really existed in the real world, how could it have fallen 6 times before? The fact that Neo chose the left door (the door leading to Trinity) is a pre-determined event. The architect knew Neo would make this choice again and again, thus closing off the threat to the Matrix source. Neo is starting to realise what is happening, his powers in the Zion Matrix (stopping the sentinels attacking with his hand) demonstrated this. The Zion Matrix has placed him in a coma until Zion falls, and the Matrix is reset once again (for the 7th time) Comments? John www.silveronion.com[^]John Honan wrote: The fact that Neo chose the left door (the door leading to Trinity) is a pre-determined event. The architect said that the "love story with Trinity" was a new twist - the last 6 Neos did not have a love interest. Hence, I take from this that the other Neos attempted to destroy the matrix rather than save Trinity. How does this change anything? I don't know, but it's entirely possible that the love story ends up being some sort of key which leads to freedom from the Matrix (which ends up being somewhat sappy, but not uncommon among moviemakers - e.g. the Fifth Element). John Honan wrote: If Zion really existed in the real world, how could it have fallen 6 times before? I think you are correct in saying that Zion is another layer of the matrix. However, Neo had dreams about Trinity's death which were very accurate. How did this occur? Is this merely a movie convention without any implications about the true extent of Neo's powers, or does Neo's powers extend beyond the Matrix - which would explain why he could see the future? Further, if the Architect's story about 6 Neos and 6 Zions is BS, then it is possible that Zion does exist in the "real world" and Neo's powers exist in the "real world" - for example, to dream the future and stop the Sentinels. John Honan wrote: The Zion Matrix has placed him in a coma until Zion falls, and the Matrix is reset once again (for the 7th time) The fact that Neo fell into a coma is somewhat enigmatic. I thought Zion had already fallen, as they say at the end "it was a slaughter". As another post mentioned, Mr. Smith may also play a role in all of this. Mr. Smith doesn't seem to like Neo - but only because Neo keeps him in the Matrix. Machines work for their own purposes and Mr.Smith is now free from the control of the machines (even if he still exists inside the matrix). What this means is that, even though Neo and Mr.Smith have been historical enemies, they both are trying to get free of the Matrix, so they have some common purpose. That doesn't mean they'll work together, but they could, separately, work towards the same end. While watching the scene between Neo and the Architect, I began to wonder if the story about six other Neos was just BS. That's one thing about movies, though, they want to explain the plot to the movie audience, but, if we were looking at independent entities working towards their goals, then we might believe that th
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John Honan wrote: Comments? It's all gonna end like that one Red Dwarf episode, where they wake up and all this time they thought they were fighting this huge dramatic battle, actually they were in a simulation they'd paid for to take their minds off their actual (horribly boring and mundane) lives. Neo is actually a VB programmer writing spaghetti code DB front-ends. Trinity is actually a 43yr old truckstop waitress. Morpheus is actually The Rev. Jesse Jackson. Of course, this'll be revealed allegorically, so it'll take everyone a while to catch on. The W Bros. will be laughing all the way to the bank... ;)
- Shog9 -
I'd show a smile but I'm too weak I'd share with you, could I only speak
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If you haven't seen the film then close this message now... There are some serious SPOILERS ahead!
* * * * * spoiler space - do not proceed if you haven't seen the film! * * * * *I've spent the whole day thinking about the meaning of Neo's conversation with the architect. As well as having a dream about it last night! The architect said there was an unavoidable imbalance created in the code for the Matrix. An imbalance that was caused by the human desire for free choice. The architect and the oracle realised after a few iterations, that 99% of humans would accept their existence in the Matrix - But 1% would want to 'free their minds' and escape into the real world. Zion was created as a Matrix outside the Matrix, a 'real world' Matrix to accommodate the 1% anomaly of minds that wanted to be free. By creating Zion, the architect had a place to store the 1% anomaly. There *is* a real world, but it exists *outside* of Zion. However, the people in Zion believe they are already free of the Matrix, and therefore no choice/imbalance exists. The real world *outside* the Zion Matrix may even be a normal earth (i.e. no scorched sky) This is the only way I can explain the fact the architect knew Neo had been there six times before, and that Zion had fallen six times before. If Zion really existed in the real world, how could it have fallen 6 times before? The fact that Neo chose the left door (the door leading to Trinity) is a pre-determined event. The architect knew Neo would make this choice again and again, thus closing off the threat to the Matrix source. Neo is starting to realise what is happening, his powers in the Zion Matrix (stopping the sentinels attacking with his hand) demonstrated this. The Zion Matrix has placed him in a coma until Zion falls, and the Matrix is reset once again (for the 7th time) Comments? John www.silveronion.com[^]The moment I saw Neo stopping the Centinels like he stops bullets in the Matrix, I can only think two possibilities: 1>Neo is actually some sort of supernatural being, and Zion as the real world does exists outside the free scorched world. 2>Neo is beginning to figure out that the idea of free human world "Zion" is also just another form of Matrix (stopping Centinels in the real world). I think Neo will prevent a reset and free everyone's minds, I believe in him as much as Morpheus. 3>This whole thing is just some simulated game that ppl enter in to have fun. I hope this whole thing doesnt turn out to be an average movie ending in some sort of nested dream, it would really suck if it does. X| The kombucha mushroom people, Sitting around all day, Who can believe you, Who can believe you, Let your mother pray... sugar - System of a down
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Mind-boggling special effects - It was really a case of "how the hell did they film *that* part?!" And the soundtrack, amazing.... ;) Just don't think about the film when you've left the cinema, it'll do your head in... Hence this thread! :eek: John www.silveronion.com[^]
John Honan wrote: Just don't think about the film when you've left the cinema, it'll do your head in I have been warned... oh... and I should stay for the trailer, yeah? Regards, Brian Dela :-)
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If you haven't seen the film then close this message now... There are some serious SPOILERS ahead!
* * * * * spoiler space - do not proceed if you haven't seen the film! * * * * *I've spent the whole day thinking about the meaning of Neo's conversation with the architect. As well as having a dream about it last night! The architect said there was an unavoidable imbalance created in the code for the Matrix. An imbalance that was caused by the human desire for free choice. The architect and the oracle realised after a few iterations, that 99% of humans would accept their existence in the Matrix - But 1% would want to 'free their minds' and escape into the real world. Zion was created as a Matrix outside the Matrix, a 'real world' Matrix to accommodate the 1% anomaly of minds that wanted to be free. By creating Zion, the architect had a place to store the 1% anomaly. There *is* a real world, but it exists *outside* of Zion. However, the people in Zion believe they are already free of the Matrix, and therefore no choice/imbalance exists. The real world *outside* the Zion Matrix may even be a normal earth (i.e. no scorched sky) This is the only way I can explain the fact the architect knew Neo had been there six times before, and that Zion had fallen six times before. If Zion really existed in the real world, how could it have fallen 6 times before? The fact that Neo chose the left door (the door leading to Trinity) is a pre-determined event. The architect knew Neo would make this choice again and again, thus closing off the threat to the Matrix source. Neo is starting to realise what is happening, his powers in the Zion Matrix (stopping the sentinels attacking with his hand) demonstrated this. The Zion Matrix has placed him in a coma until Zion falls, and the Matrix is reset once again (for the 7th time) Comments? John www.silveronion.com[^]John Honan wrote: no scorched sky Hmmm. That is a tempting though. I think the sky is scorched, that it was the last desperate attempt by humanity before machine dominance to beat the machines. If the sky was not scorched then the machines could be done with us human battery cells as we are a bit of a pain to them (we smell, we do try and escape etc.) Of course this begs the question; Why haven't the machines either simply cleared the skies or if they cannot do that then why have they not gone into orbit and piped solar power down? Of course if you are right then the final imagery in Revolutions will be of a pristine Earth. The final control level revealed (forgetting solar power the machines would want us to think the sky is scorched so that we have less to fight for, freedom in a baren world is less than freedom in a pristine world.) It will be hard to swallow though, the brothers will have to lead us up to that very carefully or we will revolt. Also remember in the The Matrix we see Neo being jetisoned from his cocoon. Whose viewpoint where we looking from when we saw that? If it was from a narator or machine viewpoint then Zion is real and not inside another Matrix, the sky is scorched and Neo is out of the Matrix. John Honan wrote: his powers in the Zion Matrix (stopping the sentinels attacking with his hand) demonstrated this. His powers can be explained without the desert of the real and Zion also being inside a Matrix. The Brothers* could be showing us that even in the "real" world there are powers we are not aware of, rules can be bent. I seriously think The Matrix is not telling us that we may actually be in a machine constructed Matrix. I think The Matrix is telling us that in everyday life we can do things we are currently unaware of. That the only Matrix is the one humanity has created for itself and called common sense, culture, civilisation. From birth we are indoctrinated with what we can and cannot do. Magic is not real because we are told it is not real. We cannot be rock stars, CEOs or geniuses, because we are told so. You don't have to go as far as wanting to fly or firing thunderbolts from your fingertips to realise that we have created a Matrix around ourselves. We delude ourselves into mediocrity. John Honan wrote: This is the only way I can explain the fact the architect knew Neo had been there six times before, and that Zion had fallen six times before.
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Mind-boggling special effects - It was really a case of "how the hell did they film *that* part?!" And the soundtrack, amazing.... ;) Just don't think about the film when you've left the cinema, it'll do your head in... Hence this thread! :eek: John www.silveronion.com[^]
John Honan wrote: Just don't think about the film when you've left the cinema, it'll do your head in... I thought you Irish have a wide range of good to great cures for that. Or have Guiness, Kilkenny, Bushmills and Tullamore closed down? :omg:
"Der Geist des Kriegers ist erwacht / Ich hab die Macht" StS
sighist | Agile Programming | doxygen -
John Honan wrote: The fact that Neo chose the left door (the door leading to Trinity) is a pre-determined event. The architect said that the "love story with Trinity" was a new twist - the last 6 Neos did not have a love interest. Hence, I take from this that the other Neos attempted to destroy the matrix rather than save Trinity. How does this change anything? I don't know, but it's entirely possible that the love story ends up being some sort of key which leads to freedom from the Matrix (which ends up being somewhat sappy, but not uncommon among moviemakers - e.g. the Fifth Element). John Honan wrote: If Zion really existed in the real world, how could it have fallen 6 times before? I think you are correct in saying that Zion is another layer of the matrix. However, Neo had dreams about Trinity's death which were very accurate. How did this occur? Is this merely a movie convention without any implications about the true extent of Neo's powers, or does Neo's powers extend beyond the Matrix - which would explain why he could see the future? Further, if the Architect's story about 6 Neos and 6 Zions is BS, then it is possible that Zion does exist in the "real world" and Neo's powers exist in the "real world" - for example, to dream the future and stop the Sentinels. John Honan wrote: The Zion Matrix has placed him in a coma until Zion falls, and the Matrix is reset once again (for the 7th time) The fact that Neo fell into a coma is somewhat enigmatic. I thought Zion had already fallen, as they say at the end "it was a slaughter". As another post mentioned, Mr. Smith may also play a role in all of this. Mr. Smith doesn't seem to like Neo - but only because Neo keeps him in the Matrix. Machines work for their own purposes and Mr.Smith is now free from the control of the machines (even if he still exists inside the matrix). What this means is that, even though Neo and Mr.Smith have been historical enemies, they both are trying to get free of the Matrix, so they have some common purpose. That doesn't mean they'll work together, but they could, separately, work towards the same end. While watching the scene between Neo and the Architect, I began to wonder if the story about six other Neos was just BS. That's one thing about movies, though, they want to explain the plot to the movie audience, but, if we were looking at independent entities working towards their goals, then we might believe that th
Brit wrote: I thought Zion had already fallen, as they say at the end "it was a slaughter No, not at all. The Commander setup a counter attack along one of the attack lines that the Sentinels were using. The plan was the Sentinels would pop into a tunnel and a pre-placed EMP bomb would go off, crippling them. A squadron of hovercraft would then fly in and devestate the Sentinels. What happened though was that the guy who was taken over by Smith (you remember the guy who got caught while picking up the landline? The guy who Smith stuck his hand into and deployed his virus into?) let off the EMP bomb early, on purpose, which crippled the squadron of hovercraft. The Sentinels then came through, found the crippled craft and "slaughtered them." They did not get to Zion, not yet. That is why that guy (the guy at the end in a coma opposite Neo) was the only survivor. He is Smith. Smith does not just replicate in the Matrix, he can replicate beyond, into the minds of jacked in people. People who can leave the Matrix but not leave behind the virus. Kapiche? Very bad for Zion. They have a free agent Smith mind in their midst now, probably more than one as well. Remember that was the same guy who cut his hand and was going to stab Neo in Zion on their way to the Nebuchadnezzar.
Paul Watson
Bluegrass
Cape Town, South Africabrianwelsch wrote: I find my day goes by more smoothly if I never question other peoples fantasies. My own disturb me enough.
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John Honan wrote: Comments? It's all gonna end like that one Red Dwarf episode, where they wake up and all this time they thought they were fighting this huge dramatic battle, actually they were in a simulation they'd paid for to take their minds off their actual (horribly boring and mundane) lives. Neo is actually a VB programmer writing spaghetti code DB front-ends. Trinity is actually a 43yr old truckstop waitress. Morpheus is actually The Rev. Jesse Jackson. Of course, this'll be revealed allegorically, so it'll take everyone a while to catch on. The W Bros. will be laughing all the way to the bank... ;)
- Shog9 -
I'd show a smile but I'm too weak I'd share with you, could I only speak
Shog9 wrote: The W Bros Warner Bros or Wachowski Bros? :omg: :wtf: I figured it out. The Wachowski Bros do not exist, they are simply acceptable fronts of the Warner Bros empire. Shog9 wrote: Trinity is actually a 43yr old truckstop waitress. Woohoo! I have a chance then. *Paul gets out the hair cream* Shog9 wrote: It's all gonna end like that one Red Dwarf episode, where they wake up and all this time they thought they were fighting this huge dramatic battle, actually they were in a simulation they'd paid for to take their minds off their actual (horribly boring and mundane) lives Ever read Orson Scott Card? His famous series is basically like that too. A young boy believes he is in training to defeat an alien enemy. After the final battle, after destroying their home world and the mother alien he comes out and is told it was all real. That it could only be done once and he was the one to do it. That if he had been told it was real then surely he would have balked at the idea of murdering a race and so would not have won. Shog9 wrote: Morpheus is actually The Rev. Jesse Jackson. :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: I like that one best.
Paul Watson
Bluegrass
Cape Town, South Africabrianwelsch wrote: I find my day goes by more smoothly if I never question other peoples fantasies. My own disturb me enough.
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very well thought out. I saw theory in the subject line and felt propelled to join in:-D ok, the only thing I am confused about it who else was in a coma at the end, I think I missed some details, a good quality of mine;P. basically, there are too many possibilities to analyze, as far as, guessing what will happen in the next movie. who says M3 needs to have a happy ending? who says M3 ending is not a dream? too many possibilities, I say sit back and enjoy the films. Plus, conspiracy theorists, think the film industry is all preparing us for "the truth" slowly anyway.(let it be publicly known that I don't believe in this theory nor do I not believe because I have not seen proof either way) John Honan wrote: There *is* a real world, but it exists *outside* of Zion. However, the people in Zion believe they are already free of the Matrix, and therefore no choice/imbalance exists. The real world *outside* the Zion Matrix may even be a normal earth (i.e. no scorched sky) I thought they escaped Zion because it blew up and the were in the outside world and the end? and they were living in their aircraft:confused::confused: Later,
JoeSox
www.humanaiproject.org "Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one." -Albert Einstein (INTP)JoeSox wrote: the only thing I am confused about it who else was in a coma at the end, I think I missed some details, a good quality of mine Remember the scene inside the Matrix where the two guys drop through the roof and there is a landline in the middle of the room? The one guy goes and is jacked out of the Matrix. The second guy is about to, but turns and finds Smith behind him. Smith then deploys his virus into that chap, it takes him over and turns him into Smith. However the freaky part of that very underplayed scene is that the turned human then is jacked out of the Matrix via the landline. Holy crap. The guy on the other end, the guy now with the mind of Smith is the guy in the coma at the end. It is the same guy who cut his hand and was about to stab Neo in Zion. You kapiche? Smith is already inside Zion.
Paul Watson
Bluegrass
Cape Town, South Africabrianwelsch wrote: I find my day goes by more smoothly if I never question other peoples fantasies. My own disturb me enough.
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Brit wrote: I thought Zion had already fallen, as they say at the end "it was a slaughter No, not at all. The Commander setup a counter attack along one of the attack lines that the Sentinels were using. The plan was the Sentinels would pop into a tunnel and a pre-placed EMP bomb would go off, crippling them. A squadron of hovercraft would then fly in and devestate the Sentinels. What happened though was that the guy who was taken over by Smith (you remember the guy who got caught while picking up the landline? The guy who Smith stuck his hand into and deployed his virus into?) let off the EMP bomb early, on purpose, which crippled the squadron of hovercraft. The Sentinels then came through, found the crippled craft and "slaughtered them." They did not get to Zion, not yet. That is why that guy (the guy at the end in a coma opposite Neo) was the only survivor. He is Smith. Smith does not just replicate in the Matrix, he can replicate beyond, into the minds of jacked in people. People who can leave the Matrix but not leave behind the virus. Kapiche? Very bad for Zion. They have a free agent Smith mind in their midst now, probably more than one as well. Remember that was the same guy who cut his hand and was going to stab Neo in Zion on their way to the Nebuchadnezzar.
Paul Watson
Bluegrass
Cape Town, South Africabrianwelsch wrote: I find my day goes by more smoothly if I never question other peoples fantasies. My own disturb me enough.
Yes, I caught all of that from the movie. My only confusion was when he said "it was a slaughter because they couldn't fight back" - I thought he was talking about the (unarmed) people of Zion, though, it would make sense if he were merely talking about the crews of the ships. ------------------------------------------ "What happened in that Rhode Island club is shocking. To think that over a hundred people would attend a Great White concert." - The Onion
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The moment I saw Neo stopping the Centinels like he stops bullets in the Matrix, I can only think two possibilities: 1>Neo is actually some sort of supernatural being, and Zion as the real world does exists outside the free scorched world. 2>Neo is beginning to figure out that the idea of free human world "Zion" is also just another form of Matrix (stopping Centinels in the real world). I think Neo will prevent a reset and free everyone's minds, I believe in him as much as Morpheus. 3>This whole thing is just some simulated game that ppl enter in to have fun. I hope this whole thing doesnt turn out to be an average movie ending in some sort of nested dream, it would really suck if it does. X| The kombucha mushroom people, Sitting around all day, Who can believe you, Who can believe you, Let your mother pray... sugar - System of a down
Ranjeet Chakraborty wrote: 1>Neo is actually some sort of supernatural being, and Zion as the real world does exists outside the free scorched world I think this is actually the larger point of The Matrix. It is a far larger paradigm shift than just "we are inside a computer."
Paul Watson
Bluegrass
Cape Town, South Africabrianwelsch wrote: I find my day goes by more smoothly if I never question other peoples fantasies. My own disturb me enough.
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keno wrote: saw the preview of the next Matrix No Way !!
Yes Way :) It's there you just have to sit thru the credits ..:: Keno ::..
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John Honan wrote: no scorched sky Hmmm. That is a tempting though. I think the sky is scorched, that it was the last desperate attempt by humanity before machine dominance to beat the machines. If the sky was not scorched then the machines could be done with us human battery cells as we are a bit of a pain to them (we smell, we do try and escape etc.) Of course this begs the question; Why haven't the machines either simply cleared the skies or if they cannot do that then why have they not gone into orbit and piped solar power down? Of course if you are right then the final imagery in Revolutions will be of a pristine Earth. The final control level revealed (forgetting solar power the machines would want us to think the sky is scorched so that we have less to fight for, freedom in a baren world is less than freedom in a pristine world.) It will be hard to swallow though, the brothers will have to lead us up to that very carefully or we will revolt. Also remember in the The Matrix we see Neo being jetisoned from his cocoon. Whose viewpoint where we looking from when we saw that? If it was from a narator or machine viewpoint then Zion is real and not inside another Matrix, the sky is scorched and Neo is out of the Matrix. John Honan wrote: his powers in the Zion Matrix (stopping the sentinels attacking with his hand) demonstrated this. His powers can be explained without the desert of the real and Zion also being inside a Matrix. The Brothers* could be showing us that even in the "real" world there are powers we are not aware of, rules can be bent. I seriously think The Matrix is not telling us that we may actually be in a machine constructed Matrix. I think The Matrix is telling us that in everyday life we can do things we are currently unaware of. That the only Matrix is the one humanity has created for itself and called common sense, culture, civilisation. From birth we are indoctrinated with what we can and cannot do. Magic is not real because we are told it is not real. We cannot be rock stars, CEOs or geniuses, because we are told so. You don't have to go as far as wanting to fly or firing thunderbolts from your fingertips to realise that we have created a Matrix around ourselves. We delude ourselves into mediocrity. John Honan wrote: This is the only way I can explain the fact the architect knew Neo had been there six times before, and that Zion had fallen six times before.
Remeber, the Matrix consits of code at different levels. Imagine before you learned to program. If someone sat you in front of a page of code, would you be able to decipher it, or even manipulate it? Here's how I comprehend it all. A program called The Matrix is running and you are in that program. Even though it's just a program, if you don't have a decompiler and editor you might as well be in the real world, there are limitations. However, once given the decompiler and editor is not enough. The code itself is quite complicated. You have to learn, yet there is no real "help" within the program itself. You'll start off small when you teach yourself, learning to predict the flow of code(fighting, doging bullets) then onto manipulation of simple code (bending a spoon), then manipulation of code on a large scale (stopping bullets, flying), then manipulating constantly changing code (healing yourself, pulling bullets out of people). However, once you have the editor and program both inside and outside the program itself, you are still inside an OS, which the editor you have is not build to handle. So, editing the OS is much more difficult, in fact, you are so focused on the editor and single program, you become oblivous to the fact that you are in an OS. And I belive that the architect is just an easter egg that, when found, interacts with the user in whatever way it was programmed to. As for the Agents, they are programs within the program. All they know is that program, they weren't made to know about the OS, they just need to do their job. .............Zack............. Developer Extraordinaire "It's all about function over form. I mean, look at NASA. Their code isn't formatted correctly and their stuff looks crappy, but, they'll get you to the moon." GCS\P\SS d- s-:- a-- C++$ U--- P--- L- E- W++ N o K-? w+++ O++ !M-- V PS+ PE Y+ PGP t+ 5+ X+ R++ tv++ b++ DI++ D+++ G+>G++++ e* h- r++ y+
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If you haven't seen the film then close this message now... There are some serious SPOILERS ahead!
* * * * * spoiler space - do not proceed if you haven't seen the film! * * * * *I've spent the whole day thinking about the meaning of Neo's conversation with the architect. As well as having a dream about it last night! The architect said there was an unavoidable imbalance created in the code for the Matrix. An imbalance that was caused by the human desire for free choice. The architect and the oracle realised after a few iterations, that 99% of humans would accept their existence in the Matrix - But 1% would want to 'free their minds' and escape into the real world. Zion was created as a Matrix outside the Matrix, a 'real world' Matrix to accommodate the 1% anomaly of minds that wanted to be free. By creating Zion, the architect had a place to store the 1% anomaly. There *is* a real world, but it exists *outside* of Zion. However, the people in Zion believe they are already free of the Matrix, and therefore no choice/imbalance exists. The real world *outside* the Zion Matrix may even be a normal earth (i.e. no scorched sky) This is the only way I can explain the fact the architect knew Neo had been there six times before, and that Zion had fallen six times before. If Zion really existed in the real world, how could it have fallen 6 times before? The fact that Neo chose the left door (the door leading to Trinity) is a pre-determined event. The architect knew Neo would make this choice again and again, thus closing off the threat to the Matrix source. Neo is starting to realise what is happening, his powers in the Zion Matrix (stopping the sentinels attacking with his hand) demonstrated this. The Zion Matrix has placed him in a coma until Zion falls, and the Matrix is reset once again (for the 7th time) Comments? John www.silveronion.com[^]Here are a couple of thoughts that I have not seen posted yet... Thought 1: Remember back in the first movie when Neo saw the same Black Cat twice, then it was explained to him that Deja Vu represents a glitch in the matrix, something had changed. Also remember that Neo's dreams were occuring "outside of the matrix" (I quote this because I'm not sure whether the "real world" is just another level of the matrix). So on board the ship, Neo was dreaming that Trinity was going to die, consequently the same event that led to Neo's choice at the end of the movie. I believe that Neo discovered a "glitch in the 'real world'", he knew something was different. Take this thought as you will, I don't know what it means yet, but I do believe it is significant. Thought 2: I could be wrong, but as I recall the machines never have told a lie outside of imprisoning people in a false reality(which is one hell of a lie). -The Oracle was always truthful with Neo, Morpheus, and Trinity. -Agent Smith, during the interrogation scene, told neo he was living 2 lives, one of which was in a computer. Also 100% true. This leaves me to believe that the Architect is being completely truthful with Neo. This is reinforced by remembering what Morpheus tells neo in the first movie... Morpheus has been waiting for the return of "The One", he was the person that freed the first of their minds. The Architect told Neo if he chose the door to the matrix mainframe, he would choose his successors. This all fits with what the machines have been saying all along. I believe that the fault with the matrix is that the matrix is incapable of lying, which is why the rebels cannot accept it as their true reality. Any thoughts? Should I try sleeping more and thinking less? Scott
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If you haven't seen the film then close this message now... There are some serious SPOILERS ahead!
* * * * * spoiler space - do not proceed if you haven't seen the film! * * * * *I've spent the whole day thinking about the meaning of Neo's conversation with the architect. As well as having a dream about it last night! The architect said there was an unavoidable imbalance created in the code for the Matrix. An imbalance that was caused by the human desire for free choice. The architect and the oracle realised after a few iterations, that 99% of humans would accept their existence in the Matrix - But 1% would want to 'free their minds' and escape into the real world. Zion was created as a Matrix outside the Matrix, a 'real world' Matrix to accommodate the 1% anomaly of minds that wanted to be free. By creating Zion, the architect had a place to store the 1% anomaly. There *is* a real world, but it exists *outside* of Zion. However, the people in Zion believe they are already free of the Matrix, and therefore no choice/imbalance exists. The real world *outside* the Zion Matrix may even be a normal earth (i.e. no scorched sky) This is the only way I can explain the fact the architect knew Neo had been there six times before, and that Zion had fallen six times before. If Zion really existed in the real world, how could it have fallen 6 times before? The fact that Neo chose the left door (the door leading to Trinity) is a pre-determined event. The architect knew Neo would make this choice again and again, thus closing off the threat to the Matrix source. Neo is starting to realise what is happening, his powers in the Zion Matrix (stopping the sentinels attacking with his hand) demonstrated this. The Zion Matrix has placed him in a coma until Zion falls, and the Matrix is reset once again (for the 7th time) Comments? John www.silveronion.com[^]I have not seen the movie yet. :(( I hope to see it this weekend. All this discussion will hopefully help me follow it. So how many of you are working on the Matrix right now and when will it be done?