Self Winding Universe?
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Ahh - that goes back to the original Schroedinger's Milk-in-the-Fridge problem.
and it's variant: - Milk in the cat - Cat in the fridge"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein
"If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you are seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010
That works surprisingly well: you can't tell if the milk is OK or off until you pour it into the tea or coffee...
Sent from my Amstrad PC 1640 Never throw anything away, Griff Bad command or file name. Bad, bad command! Sit! Stay! Staaaay... AntiTwitter: @DalekDave is now a follower!
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If you believe that energy and matter cannot be destroyed (or created), only changed in form then what does entropy do with it all? Does it have a big attic somewhere to put all this stuff? If so, does it get the stuff out again once it is full and that's where the cyclical universe theory comes from? ;P
- I would love to change the world, but they won’t give me the source code.
Forogar wrote:
what does entropy do with it all?
Nothing, in particular. Entropy stored? Interesting concept. At present I think of it in terms of order, stored, and eventually consumed. But it's an interesting idea in considering it as a stored commodity. When you dig a whole, does it always leave a pile of un-hole, and if so, was it (and everything else) just 'stored hole'?
"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein
"If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you are seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010
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Just a thought, still in process of being processed, but I was considering the possibility that the universe cannot "run down" - i.e., be completely consumed by entropy. Here's the basic thought: one could divide the universe into two types of regions: the 'void' and regions of content randomly dispersed throughout the void. Now, let's consider all of the regions of content. If all of them (i.e., all of existence) reached a final state of chaos then the whole of it would no longer have random content between the void - and thus their very existence in a state of total chaos is a contradiction. It would be incumbent upon existence to essentially become less chaotic in arbitrary local regions in order for the whole of existence to remain truly chaotic: it must not have the content of all places 'with stuff' be the same and thus, in a form of homogeneity. Now I'm not set on fully believing in this, yet, but it would essentially require that the universe's tendency towards chaos requires it to create local order (rewind) in order to become chaotic (contradiction, again?). A possible mechanism to undo chaos may be a reversal of local time, but that's somewhat shooting form the hip based on a conjecture and hand waving.
"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein
"If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you are seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010
Without being a physics scholar I think it has to do with the precise definition of entropy. Assuming we accept the Big Bang Theory, there were no galaxies, planets or snowflakes. Now there is stuff like that. Yet, I assume that the entropy, on a higher level or scale has increased. I also, as a hobby scientist, assume that total entropy will not be reached, only approached.
"If we don't change direction, we'll end up where we're going"
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Without being a physics scholar I think it has to do with the precise definition of entropy. Assuming we accept the Big Bang Theory, there were no galaxies, planets or snowflakes. Now there is stuff like that. Yet, I assume that the entropy, on a higher level or scale has increased. I also, as a hobby scientist, assume that total entropy will not be reached, only approached.
"If we don't change direction, we'll end up where we're going"
The Big Bang, causing "everything" to disperse, is the ultimate entropy event. Your asymptotic view could fit into an idea that as long as the universe is expanding it cannot reach a final state. On the other hand, if it is not expanding fast enough, and thus will eventually collapse back to a singularity (?), then the universe would, indeed, be self-winding. The current philosophy (and observations) indicate that, when you take into account systems and surroundings, entropy always increases. Are we to consider that everything will be infinitely dispersed? Er - I don't know.
"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein
"If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you are seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010
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Just a thought, still in process of being processed, but I was considering the possibility that the universe cannot "run down" - i.e., be completely consumed by entropy. Here's the basic thought: one could divide the universe into two types of regions: the 'void' and regions of content randomly dispersed throughout the void. Now, let's consider all of the regions of content. If all of them (i.e., all of existence) reached a final state of chaos then the whole of it would no longer have random content between the void - and thus their very existence in a state of total chaos is a contradiction. It would be incumbent upon existence to essentially become less chaotic in arbitrary local regions in order for the whole of existence to remain truly chaotic: it must not have the content of all places 'with stuff' be the same and thus, in a form of homogeneity. Now I'm not set on fully believing in this, yet, but it would essentially require that the universe's tendency towards chaos requires it to create local order (rewind) in order to become chaotic (contradiction, again?). A possible mechanism to undo chaos may be a reversal of local time, but that's somewhat shooting form the hip based on a conjecture and hand waving.
"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein
"If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you are seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010
What if C A T really spelled Dog? Revenge of the Nerds 2 - Ogre What if C-A-T Really Spelled Dog? - YouTube[^]
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What if C A T really spelled Dog? Revenge of the Nerds 2 - Ogre What if C-A-T Really Spelled Dog? - YouTube[^]
Slacker007 wrote:
What if C A T really spelled Dog?
Perhaps the answer can be found here.[^]
"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein
"If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you are seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010
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If you believe that energy and matter cannot be destroyed (or created), only changed in form then what does entropy do with it all? Does it have a big attic somewhere to put all this stuff? If so, does it get the stuff out again once it is full and that's where the cyclical universe theory comes from? ;P
- I would love to change the world, but they won’t give me the source code.
-
Just a thought, still in process of being processed, but I was considering the possibility that the universe cannot "run down" - i.e., be completely consumed by entropy. Here's the basic thought: one could divide the universe into two types of regions: the 'void' and regions of content randomly dispersed throughout the void. Now, let's consider all of the regions of content. If all of them (i.e., all of existence) reached a final state of chaos then the whole of it would no longer have random content between the void - and thus their very existence in a state of total chaos is a contradiction. It would be incumbent upon existence to essentially become less chaotic in arbitrary local regions in order for the whole of existence to remain truly chaotic: it must not have the content of all places 'with stuff' be the same and thus, in a form of homogeneity. Now I'm not set on fully believing in this, yet, but it would essentially require that the universe's tendency towards chaos requires it to create local order (rewind) in order to become chaotic (contradiction, again?). A possible mechanism to undo chaos may be a reversal of local time, but that's somewhat shooting form the hip based on a conjecture and hand waving.
"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein
"If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you are seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010
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Slacker007 wrote:
What if C A T really spelled Dog?
Perhaps the answer can be found here.[^]
"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein
"If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you are seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010
Interesting. If 6 Was 9 - Wikipedia[^]
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Apparently you haven't heard of the holographic simulation theory.
Caveat Emptor. "Progress doesn't come from early risers – progress is made by lazy men looking for easier ways to do things." Lazarus Long
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Just a thought, still in process of being processed, but I was considering the possibility that the universe cannot "run down" - i.e., be completely consumed by entropy. Here's the basic thought: one could divide the universe into two types of regions: the 'void' and regions of content randomly dispersed throughout the void. Now, let's consider all of the regions of content. If all of them (i.e., all of existence) reached a final state of chaos then the whole of it would no longer have random content between the void - and thus their very existence in a state of total chaos is a contradiction. It would be incumbent upon existence to essentially become less chaotic in arbitrary local regions in order for the whole of existence to remain truly chaotic: it must not have the content of all places 'with stuff' be the same and thus, in a form of homogeneity. Now I'm not set on fully believing in this, yet, but it would essentially require that the universe's tendency towards chaos requires it to create local order (rewind) in order to become chaotic (contradiction, again?). A possible mechanism to undo chaos may be a reversal of local time, but that's somewhat shooting form the hip based on a conjecture and hand waving.
"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein
"If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you are seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010
Quote:
that's somewhat shooting form the hip based on a conjecture and hand waving.
[Future of an expanding universe - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Future\_of\_an\_expanding\_universe)
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Just a thought, still in process of being processed, but I was considering the possibility that the universe cannot "run down" - i.e., be completely consumed by entropy. Here's the basic thought: one could divide the universe into two types of regions: the 'void' and regions of content randomly dispersed throughout the void. Now, let's consider all of the regions of content. If all of them (i.e., all of existence) reached a final state of chaos then the whole of it would no longer have random content between the void - and thus their very existence in a state of total chaos is a contradiction. It would be incumbent upon existence to essentially become less chaotic in arbitrary local regions in order for the whole of existence to remain truly chaotic: it must not have the content of all places 'with stuff' be the same and thus, in a form of homogeneity. Now I'm not set on fully believing in this, yet, but it would essentially require that the universe's tendency towards chaos requires it to create local order (rewind) in order to become chaotic (contradiction, again?). A possible mechanism to undo chaos may be a reversal of local time, but that's somewhat shooting form the hip based on a conjecture and hand waving.
"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein
"If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you are seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010
Some say life is anti-entropy. If so, it may qualify as your "self-winding" idea.
#SupportHeForShe Government can give you nothing but what it takes from somebody else. A government big enough to give you everything you want is big enough to take everything you've got, including your freedom.-Ezra Taft Benson You must accept 1 of 2 basic premises: Either we are alone in the universe or we are not alone. Either way, the implications are staggering!-Wernher von Braun
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Just a thought, still in process of being processed, but I was considering the possibility that the universe cannot "run down" - i.e., be completely consumed by entropy. Here's the basic thought: one could divide the universe into two types of regions: the 'void' and regions of content randomly dispersed throughout the void. Now, let's consider all of the regions of content. If all of them (i.e., all of existence) reached a final state of chaos then the whole of it would no longer have random content between the void - and thus their very existence in a state of total chaos is a contradiction. It would be incumbent upon existence to essentially become less chaotic in arbitrary local regions in order for the whole of existence to remain truly chaotic: it must not have the content of all places 'with stuff' be the same and thus, in a form of homogeneity. Now I'm not set on fully believing in this, yet, but it would essentially require that the universe's tendency towards chaos requires it to create local order (rewind) in order to become chaotic (contradiction, again?). A possible mechanism to undo chaos may be a reversal of local time, but that's somewhat shooting form the hip based on a conjecture and hand waving.
"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein
"If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you are seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
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Just a thought, still in process of being processed, but I was considering the possibility that the universe cannot "run down" - i.e., be completely consumed by entropy. Here's the basic thought: one could divide the universe into two types of regions: the 'void' and regions of content randomly dispersed throughout the void. Now, let's consider all of the regions of content. If all of them (i.e., all of existence) reached a final state of chaos then the whole of it would no longer have random content between the void - and thus their very existence in a state of total chaos is a contradiction. It would be incumbent upon existence to essentially become less chaotic in arbitrary local regions in order for the whole of existence to remain truly chaotic: it must not have the content of all places 'with stuff' be the same and thus, in a form of homogeneity. Now I'm not set on fully believing in this, yet, but it would essentially require that the universe's tendency towards chaos requires it to create local order (rewind) in order to become chaotic (contradiction, again?). A possible mechanism to undo chaos may be a reversal of local time, but that's somewhat shooting form the hip based on a conjecture and hand waving.
"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein
"If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you are seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010
Your idea about chaos and entropy seems to be derived mainly from Michael Moorcock hey?!
A new .NET Serializer All in one Menu-Ribbon Bar Taking over the world since 1371!
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The Big Bang, causing "everything" to disperse, is the ultimate entropy event. Your asymptotic view could fit into an idea that as long as the universe is expanding it cannot reach a final state. On the other hand, if it is not expanding fast enough, and thus will eventually collapse back to a singularity (?), then the universe would, indeed, be self-winding. The current philosophy (and observations) indicate that, when you take into account systems and surroundings, entropy always increases. Are we to consider that everything will be infinitely dispersed? Er - I don't know.
"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein
"If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you are seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010
W∴ Balboos wrote:
Are we to consider that everything will be infinitely dispersed?
If you take into consideration that the [universe's expansion is accelerating](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Accelerating\_expansion\_of\_the\_universe), instead of decelerating, then that's my best bet, when a hypothesis like the [Big Rip](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big\_Rip) will happen. Of course, the other way around is still possible, like hypothesized by the [Big Crunch](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big\_Crunch), which would lead for a cyclic universe lifespam, but I believe more in the former, hoping for the latter.
To alcohol! The cause of, and solution to, all of life's problems - Homer Simpson ---- Our heads are round so our thoughts can change direction - Francis Picabia
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Your idea about chaos and entropy seems to be derived mainly from Michael Moorcock hey?!
A new .NET Serializer All in one Menu-Ribbon Bar Taking over the world since 1371!
Had no clue as to who Michael Moorcock is. My basis in entropy is primarily from courses in Chemical Thermodynamics. Part of calculations, in fact. A tidbit for you: do you know those "ice packs" you squish and they get cold? They are devices whereby the thermodynamics to happen spontaneously (Gibbs Free Energy < 0) is dominated by entropy instead of enthalpy (i.e., the common heat emitted by most chemical reactions). Not uncommon if one dissolves ammonium salts.
"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein
"If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you are seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010
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Some say life is anti-entropy. If so, it may qualify as your "self-winding" idea.
#SupportHeForShe Government can give you nothing but what it takes from somebody else. A government big enough to give you everything you want is big enough to take everything you've got, including your freedom.-Ezra Taft Benson You must accept 1 of 2 basic premises: Either we are alone in the universe or we are not alone. Either way, the implications are staggering!-Wernher von Braun
Alas, everything you do to stay alive increases the universe's entropy. Remember, always, it's system+surroundings. The food you eat, for example. Some of it is used to make orderly structures to maintain your vessel, but this is driven by other reactions to supply the energy necessary to create the material. You breath out CO2 as the final product of extracting energy from (and increasing the entropy of) the majority of what you ingest. The constant increase in entropy as a consequence of all events is fundamentally related to giving a direction of time.
"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein
"If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you are seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010
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I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
I always wondered what those guys wearing robes and carrying signs did when they went home at night. At least one of them posts his theories online. "The End is (Not?) Near!"
"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein
"If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you are seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010
-
If you believe that energy and matter cannot be destroyed (or created), only changed in form then what does entropy do with it all? Does it have a big attic somewhere to put all this stuff? If so, does it get the stuff out again once it is full and that's where the cyclical universe theory comes from? ;P
- I would love to change the world, but they won’t give me the source code.
Maybe it periodically has a cosmic yard sale? In extreme cases it makes it on an episode of Hoarders.
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I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
