Where We Are
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W∴ Balboos wrote:
Rep. Cortez got a movement going to oppose it
I think you are crediting her with a lot more power and influence than she has. She's not the only one that thinks that $3 billion in subsidies to Amazon is excessive.
Before the oath, Trump has managed to surpass 2nd term Nixon for paranoia, 2nd term Reagan for corruption & 2nd term Bush for incompetence.--R. Schooley Frank Wilhoit: “Conservatism consists of exactly one proposition …There must be in-groups whom the law protects but does not bind, alongside out-groups whom the law binds but does not protect.” The president fired the FBI director to obstruct a federal investigation into possible collusion with a foreign power to fix an election. - Jesse Berne
The subsidies, when spoken of that way, in a vacuum sound horrid. 1 - it's not "all at once", but take breaks. 2 - the governor wants money into the state, the mayor into the city. You can be pretty sure the math is good for the state and the city. Why do you think all of the other locations courted Amazon? And who's going to support Cortez's district if they don't ship in a whole bunch of new taxpayers? Someone's got to pay for social programs. If this were being plopped into the middle of a rural or even suburban setting, I can see objections to a giant office complex changing the neighborhood completely. Long Island City is a shit-hole loaded with closed manufacturing businesses. The only change will be occupied manufacturing space and spending
"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein
"If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you are seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010
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The subsidies, when spoken of that way, in a vacuum sound horrid. 1 - it's not "all at once", but take breaks. 2 - the governor wants money into the state, the mayor into the city. You can be pretty sure the math is good for the state and the city. Why do you think all of the other locations courted Amazon? And who's going to support Cortez's district if they don't ship in a whole bunch of new taxpayers? Someone's got to pay for social programs. If this were being plopped into the middle of a rural or even suburban setting, I can see objections to a giant office complex changing the neighborhood completely. Long Island City is a shit-hole loaded with closed manufacturing businesses. The only change will be occupied manufacturing space and spending
"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein
"If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you are seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010
There are valid arguments for and against the HQ deal. But that's not my point. My point is that AOC is not some lone voice pushing an unpopular agenda on automatons mindlessly following her. Whether there is a net benefit for the city and/or the state is a judgement others can make. I will point out that Google is doing a major expansion in NY without the benefit of subsidies.
Before the oath, Trump has managed to surpass 2nd term Nixon for paranoia, 2nd term Reagan for corruption & 2nd term Bush for incompetence.--R. Schooley Frank Wilhoit: “Conservatism consists of exactly one proposition …There must be in-groups whom the law protects but does not bind, alongside out-groups whom the law binds but does not protect.” The president fired the FBI director to obstruct a federal investigation into possible collusion with a foreign power to fix an election. - Jesse Berne
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There are valid arguments for and against the HQ deal. But that's not my point. My point is that AOC is not some lone voice pushing an unpopular agenda on automatons mindlessly following her. Whether there is a net benefit for the city and/or the state is a judgement others can make. I will point out that Google is doing a major expansion in NY without the benefit of subsidies.
Before the oath, Trump has managed to surpass 2nd term Nixon for paranoia, 2nd term Reagan for corruption & 2nd term Bush for incompetence.--R. Schooley Frank Wilhoit: “Conservatism consists of exactly one proposition …There must be in-groups whom the law protects but does not bind, alongside out-groups whom the law binds but does not protect.” The president fired the FBI director to obstruct a federal investigation into possible collusion with a foreign power to fix an election. - Jesse Berne
If I recall, correctly, Google's already here - so expansion doesn't need an incentive- their desire to expand implies adequate financial incentive of their own. As for Cortez? I watched as she riled up her neighborhood and came up with every imaginable reason to condemn the deal. Someone's trying to make a heroine out of her - a rising star for who plans to put NY City a the Venezuelan Fiscal Model. A "former bartender" - went to a damn good college. I've a considerable litany I won't bother sharing about her and her two evil twins that also got elected. To wit: I'm waiting for the Dem's to demand the same penalties for Ilhan Omar as they demanded the Republicscum apply to Steven King. Both have a history of bigotry. Both continued with it. Both should sit on their hands in congress and not be on any committees. But that won't happen - because she's "of color"? Because she's a "muslim"? Enabled by fear of the mob. Polosi and the others saying shame-shame-on-you just doesn't cut it.
"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein
"If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you are seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010
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j'accuse There are two important principals that are essential for any sort of system of justice. Not just two, but certainly these two. First - innocent until proven guilty. Second - The prohibition of ex post fact - making something illegal after it has been done and then using this to try and convict someone. The latter is enshrined in the US Constitution: Art 1, § 9. A powerful protection against tyrannical rule. Today, however, we have replaced both of these with mob-rule. This disease has infected both the right and the left, and in the name of pandering, all but the boldest politicians. As ever, being a politician is being a crowd pleaser. Part of the blame can be placed upon the curse of the ubiquitous hand-held devices. They teach you what your opinion should be; put information, right or wrong, at your finger tips so you don't really need to know anything, and, of course, in various manifestations, being driven to crave personal 'likes' by agreeing with the mob you help compose. Trying to be popular is much easier than thinking. And if in a crowd - always chant with them. Anonymous togetherness! As warm and cozy a feeling as one could hope for. If you are accused you are asked to resign or are summarily fired. If you did something perfectly acceptable (and even innocent of any malice) forty years ago, you are held to account by current standards - they, themselves, forged in a furnace of fraud. And fear . . . lest you be next accused. Oh! The feeling of power! The rush! - demanding penalties before trial - possibly from unnamed accusers. Buy more batteries for that bull-horn and await your own next chance to shout down your neighbor.
"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein
"If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you are seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010
I think the mob has always been there, as your reference to Émile Zola's letter hints. Charles Dickens seems to have written A Tale Of Two Cities to highlight the mob and 1984 with its two minute hate describes how a mob gets stirred up. There are probably plenty of other examples in literature, including Arthur Miller's play The Crucible. I don't think it's ever really going to change, but standing out from the crowd and calling out the madness is probably one of the most courageous gestures one can make.
“That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence.”
― Christopher Hitchens
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If I recall, correctly, Google's already here - so expansion doesn't need an incentive- their desire to expand implies adequate financial incentive of their own. As for Cortez? I watched as she riled up her neighborhood and came up with every imaginable reason to condemn the deal. Someone's trying to make a heroine out of her - a rising star for who plans to put NY City a the Venezuelan Fiscal Model. A "former bartender" - went to a damn good college. I've a considerable litany I won't bother sharing about her and her two evil twins that also got elected. To wit: I'm waiting for the Dem's to demand the same penalties for Ilhan Omar as they demanded the Republicscum apply to Steven King. Both have a history of bigotry. Both continued with it. Both should sit on their hands in congress and not be on any committees. But that won't happen - because she's "of color"? Because she's a "muslim"? Enabled by fear of the mob. Polosi and the others saying shame-shame-on-you just doesn't cut it.
"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein
"If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you are seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010
W∴ Balboos wrote:
f I recall, correctly, Google's already here
So is Amazon.
W∴ Balboos wrote:
As for Cortez?
It doesn't matter. She didn't create the opposition.
Before the oath, Trump has managed to surpass 2nd term Nixon for paranoia, 2nd term Reagan for corruption & 2nd term Bush for incompetence.--R. Schooley Frank Wilhoit: “Conservatism consists of exactly one proposition …There must be in-groups whom the law protects but does not bind, alongside out-groups whom the law binds but does not protect.” The president fired the FBI director to obstruct a federal investigation into possible collusion with a foreign power to fix an election. - Jesse Berne
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TheGreatAndPowerfulOz wrote:
yes, but the origin of the thread does imply it.
I don't think so.
TheGreatAndPowerfulOz wrote:
exactly the point
Not unless your point is that Republicans weren't concerned with his racism when they were in the majority and needed his support but now that they are in minority status his 'out loud' racism might become a liability.
Before the oath, Trump has managed to surpass 2nd term Nixon for paranoia, 2nd term Reagan for corruption & 2nd term Bush for incompetence.--R. Schooley Frank Wilhoit: “Conservatism consists of exactly one proposition …There must be in-groups whom the law protects but does not bind, alongside out-groups whom the law binds but does not protect.” The president fired the FBI director to obstruct a federal investigation into possible collusion with a foreign power to fix an election. - Jesse Berne
:rolleyes:
#SupportHeForShe Government can give you nothing but what it takes from somebody else. A government big enough to give you everything you want is big enough to take everything you've got, including your freedom.-Ezra Taft Benson You must accept 1 of 2 basic premises: Either we are alone in the universe or we are not alone. Either way, the implications are staggering!-Wernher von Braun
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TheGreatAndPowerfulOz wrote:
would bring in $30 Billion in tax revenue
They already have a large presence in New York and are likely to expand that presence with or without the subsidy. I doubt you can show that $30 billion is wholly and exclusively predicated on the subsidy.
Before the oath, Trump has managed to surpass 2nd term Nixon for paranoia, 2nd term Reagan for corruption & 2nd term Bush for incompetence.--R. Schooley Frank Wilhoit: “Conservatism consists of exactly one proposition …There must be in-groups whom the law protects but does not bind, alongside out-groups whom the law binds but does not protect.” The president fired the FBI director to obstruct a federal investigation into possible collusion with a foreign power to fix an election. - Jesse Berne
You can do the math I'm sure, but I'll lean on your hero Democratic NY Governor Cuomo's quote:
Quote:
New York Gov. Andrew M. Cuomo (D) defended the incentives by saying that the total state and city revenue is estimated at $27.5 billion, which he said would be about nine times larger than the incentives.
#SupportHeForShe Government can give you nothing but what it takes from somebody else. A government big enough to give you everything you want is big enough to take everything you've got, including your freedom.-Ezra Taft Benson You must accept 1 of 2 basic premises: Either we are alone in the universe or we are not alone. Either way, the implications are staggering!-Wernher von Braun
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You can do the math I'm sure, but I'll lean on your hero Democratic NY Governor Cuomo's quote:
Quote:
New York Gov. Andrew M. Cuomo (D) defended the incentives by saying that the total state and city revenue is estimated at $27.5 billion, which he said would be about nine times larger than the incentives.
#SupportHeForShe Government can give you nothing but what it takes from somebody else. A government big enough to give you everything you want is big enough to take everything you've got, including your freedom.-Ezra Taft Benson You must accept 1 of 2 basic premises: Either we are alone in the universe or we are not alone. Either way, the implications are staggering!-Wernher von Braun
So your response is "It must be true because Cuomo says so". I am not impressed.
Before the oath, Trump has managed to surpass 2nd term Nixon for paranoia, 2nd term Reagan for corruption & 2nd term Bush for incompetence.--R. Schooley Frank Wilhoit: “Conservatism consists of exactly one proposition …There must be in-groups whom the law protects but does not bind, alongside out-groups whom the law binds but does not protect.” The president fired the FBI director to obstruct a federal investigation into possible collusion with a foreign power to fix an election. - Jesse Berne
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So your response is "It must be true because Cuomo says so". I am not impressed.
Before the oath, Trump has managed to surpass 2nd term Nixon for paranoia, 2nd term Reagan for corruption & 2nd term Bush for incompetence.--R. Schooley Frank Wilhoit: “Conservatism consists of exactly one proposition …There must be in-groups whom the law protects but does not bind, alongside out-groups whom the law binds but does not protect.” The president fired the FBI director to obstruct a federal investigation into possible collusion with a foreign power to fix an election. - Jesse Berne
How quaint. Quelle surprise! You quote others to support your positions and statements and now when someone else does the same, you throw a fit? How typical. :rolleyes:
#SupportHeForShe Government can give you nothing but what it takes from somebody else. A government big enough to give you everything you want is big enough to take everything you've got, including your freedom.-Ezra Taft Benson You must accept 1 of 2 basic premises: Either we are alone in the universe or we are not alone. Either way, the implications are staggering!-Wernher von Braun
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How quaint. Quelle surprise! You quote others to support your positions and statements and now when someone else does the same, you throw a fit? How typical. :rolleyes:
#SupportHeForShe Government can give you nothing but what it takes from somebody else. A government big enough to give you everything you want is big enough to take everything you've got, including your freedom.-Ezra Taft Benson You must accept 1 of 2 basic premises: Either we are alone in the universe or we are not alone. Either way, the implications are staggering!-Wernher von Braun
I haven't thrown a fit. I wrote "I doubt you can show that $30 billion is wholly and exclusively predicated on the subsidy." and your response is to repeat your statement through the voice of Gov. Cuomo (down by $3billion). Like I said - I'm not impressed. In addition, promises by Amazon aren't exactly cash in the bank. Just ask Wisconsin. And this is just the (promised - not realized) revenues. The costs to the city and state - beyond the subsidies - are not addressed at all.
Before the oath, Trump has managed to surpass 2nd term Nixon for paranoia, 2nd term Reagan for corruption & 2nd term Bush for incompetence.--R. Schooley Frank Wilhoit: “Conservatism consists of exactly one proposition …There must be in-groups whom the law protects but does not bind, alongside out-groups whom the law binds but does not protect.” The president fired the FBI director to obstruct a federal investigation into possible collusion with a foreign power to fix an election. - Jesse Berne
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I haven't thrown a fit. I wrote "I doubt you can show that $30 billion is wholly and exclusively predicated on the subsidy." and your response is to repeat your statement through the voice of Gov. Cuomo (down by $3billion). Like I said - I'm not impressed. In addition, promises by Amazon aren't exactly cash in the bank. Just ask Wisconsin. And this is just the (promised - not realized) revenues. The costs to the city and state - beyond the subsidies - are not addressed at all.
Before the oath, Trump has managed to surpass 2nd term Nixon for paranoia, 2nd term Reagan for corruption & 2nd term Bush for incompetence.--R. Schooley Frank Wilhoit: “Conservatism consists of exactly one proposition …There must be in-groups whom the law protects but does not bind, alongside out-groups whom the law binds but does not protect.” The president fired the FBI director to obstruct a federal investigation into possible collusion with a foreign power to fix an election. - Jesse Berne
LMAO. So you know so much more than 100s of other smart financial people who all say the same thing: the Amazon deal is a good deal for NY and VA. So I'm supposed to believe some random webhead (i.e. you) making snarky remarks on the web .vs. some smart guys who know way more? Pshaw! Look who's getting defensive. Tells me all.
#SupportHeForShe Government can give you nothing but what it takes from somebody else. A government big enough to give you everything you want is big enough to take everything you've got, including your freedom.-Ezra Taft Benson You must accept 1 of 2 basic premises: Either we are alone in the universe or we are not alone. Either way, the implications are staggering!-Wernher von Braun
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LMAO. So you know so much more than 100s of other smart financial people who all say the same thing: the Amazon deal is a good deal for NY and VA. So I'm supposed to believe some random webhead (i.e. you) making snarky remarks on the web .vs. some smart guys who know way more? Pshaw! Look who's getting defensive. Tells me all.
#SupportHeForShe Government can give you nothing but what it takes from somebody else. A government big enough to give you everything you want is big enough to take everything you've got, including your freedom.-Ezra Taft Benson You must accept 1 of 2 basic premises: Either we are alone in the universe or we are not alone. Either way, the implications are staggering!-Wernher von Braun
Not Just an appeal to authority but an appeal to unnamed authorities. I’m even less impressed than before. :)
Before the oath, Trump has managed to surpass 2nd term Nixon for paranoia, 2nd term Reagan for corruption & 2nd term Bush for incompetence.--R. Schooley Frank Wilhoit: “Conservatism consists of exactly one proposition …There must be in-groups whom the law protects but does not bind, alongside out-groups whom the law binds but does not protect.” The president fired the FBI director to obstruct a federal investigation into possible collusion with a foreign power to fix an election. - Jesse Berne
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j'accuse There are two important principals that are essential for any sort of system of justice. Not just two, but certainly these two. First - innocent until proven guilty. Second - The prohibition of ex post fact - making something illegal after it has been done and then using this to try and convict someone. The latter is enshrined in the US Constitution: Art 1, § 9. A powerful protection against tyrannical rule. Today, however, we have replaced both of these with mob-rule. This disease has infected both the right and the left, and in the name of pandering, all but the boldest politicians. As ever, being a politician is being a crowd pleaser. Part of the blame can be placed upon the curse of the ubiquitous hand-held devices. They teach you what your opinion should be; put information, right or wrong, at your finger tips so you don't really need to know anything, and, of course, in various manifestations, being driven to crave personal 'likes' by agreeing with the mob you help compose. Trying to be popular is much easier than thinking. And if in a crowd - always chant with them. Anonymous togetherness! As warm and cozy a feeling as one could hope for. If you are accused you are asked to resign or are summarily fired. If you did something perfectly acceptable (and even innocent of any malice) forty years ago, you are held to account by current standards - they, themselves, forged in a furnace of fraud. And fear . . . lest you be next accused. Oh! The feeling of power! The rush! - demanding penalties before trial - possibly from unnamed accusers. Buy more batteries for that bull-horn and await your own next chance to shout down your neighbor.
"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein
"If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you are seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010
Nothing to do with the justice system.. But to take it from your title.. [I am here](https://www.google.com.au/maps/place/Taringa+QLD+4068/@-27.4951768,152.9707112,15z/data=!3m1!4b1!4m5!3m4!1s0x6b9150e7d2cca087:0x502a35af3de9a60!8m2!3d-27.4938096!4d152.980912)! ;P
A new .NET Serializer All in one Menu-Ribbon Bar Taking over the world since 1371!
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W∴ Balboos wrote:
making something illegal after it has been done and then using this to try and convict someone.
This is how the Nuremberg Nazi trials were done. There was no international law before the offences were committed. They were made up after the event and backdated.
W∴ Balboos wrote:
oday, however, we have replaced both of these with mob-rule.
Or media rule.
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I'm trying to think of an example where the winners of a war were prosecuted for war crimes.
We won't sit down. We won't shut up. We won't go quietly away. YouTube, VidMe and My Mu[sic], Films and Windows Programs, etc. and FB
I know one who should be, Blair. Anyway, not every loser has too.
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Not Just an appeal to authority but an appeal to unnamed authorities. I’m even less impressed than before. :)
Before the oath, Trump has managed to surpass 2nd term Nixon for paranoia, 2nd term Reagan for corruption & 2nd term Bush for incompetence.--R. Schooley Frank Wilhoit: “Conservatism consists of exactly one proposition …There must be in-groups whom the law protects but does not bind, alongside out-groups whom the law binds but does not protect.” The president fired the FBI director to obstruct a federal investigation into possible collusion with a foreign power to fix an election. - Jesse Berne
:rolleyes:
#SupportHeForShe Government can give you nothing but what it takes from somebody else. A government big enough to give you everything you want is big enough to take everything you've got, including your freedom.-Ezra Taft Benson You must accept 1 of 2 basic premises: Either we are alone in the universe or we are not alone. Either way, the implications are staggering!-Wernher von Braun
-
j'accuse There are two important principals that are essential for any sort of system of justice. Not just two, but certainly these two. First - innocent until proven guilty. Second - The prohibition of ex post fact - making something illegal after it has been done and then using this to try and convict someone. The latter is enshrined in the US Constitution: Art 1, § 9. A powerful protection against tyrannical rule. Today, however, we have replaced both of these with mob-rule. This disease has infected both the right and the left, and in the name of pandering, all but the boldest politicians. As ever, being a politician is being a crowd pleaser. Part of the blame can be placed upon the curse of the ubiquitous hand-held devices. They teach you what your opinion should be; put information, right or wrong, at your finger tips so you don't really need to know anything, and, of course, in various manifestations, being driven to crave personal 'likes' by agreeing with the mob you help compose. Trying to be popular is much easier than thinking. And if in a crowd - always chant with them. Anonymous togetherness! As warm and cozy a feeling as one could hope for. If you are accused you are asked to resign or are summarily fired. If you did something perfectly acceptable (and even innocent of any malice) forty years ago, you are held to account by current standards - they, themselves, forged in a furnace of fraud. And fear . . . lest you be next accused. Oh! The feeling of power! The rush! - demanding penalties before trial - possibly from unnamed accusers. Buy more batteries for that bull-horn and await your own next chance to shout down your neighbor.
"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein
"If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you are seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010
W∴ Balboos wrote:
Today, however, we have replaced both of these with mob-rule
Those principles you are referring to are based on the criminal legal system. Thus for example not to either of the following - Civil proceedings. - The right to free speech.
W∴ Balboos wrote:
If you are accused you are asked to resign or are summarily fired. If you did something perfectly acceptable (and even innocent of any malice) forty years ago, you are held to account by current standards - they, themselves, forged in a furnace of fraud. And fear . . . lest you be next accused.
And your point is? Elected government officials are elected with the understanding that they were elected to represent those that elected them. If after an election that it is found that they completely misrepresented themselves then of course they should be removed. After that it is only a matter of degree. As for employees of companies, most states have an "at will" law, which means a company is allowed to fire the employee for any reason at all as long as it is not a protected status. So for example you can fire a janitor because they got a buzz cut haircut or because they died their hair blue. Do you want to regulate the grounds on which all companies can fire all employees? And that is just general employees. Any employee in a publicly visible position in a company was hired for that public visibility. For example any Chief Officer position. They are not allowed, based on their very hiring, to have any view at all that would be negative to the company. Thus if you want to run the marketing division of the NAACP you better make real sure that there is absolutely no way that your Imperial Wizard status of the KKK comes to light. And even if you are not actually the Imperial Wizard because you lost the vote you are still going to be fired.
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TheGreatAndPowerfulOz wrote:
would bring in $30 Billion in tax revenue
They already have a large presence in New York and are likely to expand that presence with or without the subsidy. I doubt you can show that $30 billion is wholly and exclusively predicated on the subsidy.
Before the oath, Trump has managed to surpass 2nd term Nixon for paranoia, 2nd term Reagan for corruption & 2nd term Bush for incompetence.--R. Schooley Frank Wilhoit: “Conservatism consists of exactly one proposition …There must be in-groups whom the law protects but does not bind, alongside out-groups whom the law binds but does not protect.” The president fired the FBI director to obstruct a federal investigation into possible collusion with a foreign power to fix an election. - Jesse Berne
Majerus wrote:
I doubt you can show that $30 billion is wholly and exclusively predicated on the subsidy.
The estimate was based on 25,000 new jobs. And Amazon is not going to add that many jobs for ancillary production anywhere. So yes it is based "wholly and exclusively" on the new head quarters.
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Majerus wrote:
I doubt you can show that $30 billion is wholly and exclusively predicated on the subsidy.
The estimate was based on 25,000 new jobs. And Amazon is not going to add that many jobs for ancillary production anywhere. So yes it is based "wholly and exclusively" on the new head quarters.
Majerus wrote:
I doubt you can show that $30 billion is wholly and exclusively predicated on the subsidy.
When you show it, I'll take a look at it. Till then, I'll see you in a few weeks.
Before the oath, Trump has managed to surpass 2nd term Nixon for paranoia, 2nd term Reagan for corruption & 2nd term Bush for incompetence.--R. Schooley Frank Wilhoit: “Conservatism consists of exactly one proposition …There must be in-groups whom the law protects but does not bind, alongside out-groups whom the law binds but does not protect.” The president fired the FBI director to obstruct a federal investigation into possible collusion with a foreign power to fix an election. - Jesse Berne