Intrusive cookie messages
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European law, GDPR, that went into effect about a year ago. As a European I'm annoyed too. On the other hand, companies are abusing the data they secretly collect about consumers, sometimes even for paid services, and this is one of the measures taken by the EU to make it more transparent what data a service collects and what they do with that data. I guess it's annoying, but not all bad either ;)
Best, Sander sanderrossel.com Continuous Integration, Delivery, and Deployment arrgh.js - Bringing LINQ to JavaScript Object-Oriented Programming in C# Succinctly
Sander Rossel wrote:
abusing the data
Ya, it's terrible. I see ads of things I am actually interested in. Ugghh. It's the worst. ;)
Social Media - A platform that makes it easier for the crazies to find each other. Everyone is born right handed. Only the strongest overcome it. Fight for left-handed rights and hand equality.
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Sander Rossel wrote:
abusing the data
Ya, it's terrible. I see ads of things I am actually interested in. Ugghh. It's the worst. ;)
Social Media - A platform that makes it easier for the crazies to find each other. Everyone is born right handed. Only the strongest overcome it. Fight for left-handed rights and hand equality.
The worst part is how you're being manipulated. It goes beyond just showing you things you're interested in. For example, they can tell if someone is pregnant by their browse and search behavior. They single out all these pregnant women and give them special offers, diapers and such. When you're pregnant and all of a sudden you get these offers you feel like you're being watched, which you are, but shops came up with a clever way to pretend like they're not watching... They add some generic stuff with the offer so it seems like the diapers are just on sale by coincidence while they really aren't. Now why pregnant women, study has shown that pregnant women are more susceptible to change their brand. So if they always shop at A this is the time to switch to B if B offers them diapers. And while they're out diaper shopping at B they might just as well get their other non-kids stuff (groceries) from B as well. Pregnant women might seem harmless enough, but they do this with people who are addicted, with children who don't fully know what they're doing yet, with people who are somehow vulnerable or susceptible... You might say it's "their choice" to buy or not, but not everyone is that strong (all the time) and the manipulation is clever. It gets scarier when you think that there's been a research (true or not) that has shown companies used all this data to get Trump elected. Not to turn this into a political discussion, but they're able to show exactly the news items they want you to see for their political agenda's. They know you haven't made up your mind yet, but they want you to vote for Trump, so you get to see "SCANDAL! Hillary has private emails" and "Trump hugs a cute baby", but they leave out "Hillary has done good things" and "Trump's charity is a fraud". Now again, I don't know how much of the election part is true, but I believe it could very well be true, and that's already scary enough.
Best, Sander sanderrossel.com Continuous Integration, Delivery, and Deployment arrgh.js - Bringing LINQ to JavaScript Object-Oriented Programming in C# Succinctly
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The worst part is how you're being manipulated. It goes beyond just showing you things you're interested in. For example, they can tell if someone is pregnant by their browse and search behavior. They single out all these pregnant women and give them special offers, diapers and such. When you're pregnant and all of a sudden you get these offers you feel like you're being watched, which you are, but shops came up with a clever way to pretend like they're not watching... They add some generic stuff with the offer so it seems like the diapers are just on sale by coincidence while they really aren't. Now why pregnant women, study has shown that pregnant women are more susceptible to change their brand. So if they always shop at A this is the time to switch to B if B offers them diapers. And while they're out diaper shopping at B they might just as well get their other non-kids stuff (groceries) from B as well. Pregnant women might seem harmless enough, but they do this with people who are addicted, with children who don't fully know what they're doing yet, with people who are somehow vulnerable or susceptible... You might say it's "their choice" to buy or not, but not everyone is that strong (all the time) and the manipulation is clever. It gets scarier when you think that there's been a research (true or not) that has shown companies used all this data to get Trump elected. Not to turn this into a political discussion, but they're able to show exactly the news items they want you to see for their political agenda's. They know you haven't made up your mind yet, but they want you to vote for Trump, so you get to see "SCANDAL! Hillary has private emails" and "Trump hugs a cute baby", but they leave out "Hillary has done good things" and "Trump's charity is a fraud". Now again, I don't know how much of the election part is true, but I believe it could very well be true, and that's already scary enough.
Best, Sander sanderrossel.com Continuous Integration, Delivery, and Deployment arrgh.js - Bringing LINQ to JavaScript Object-Oriented Programming in C# Succinctly
Sander Rossel wrote:
and the manipulation is clever.
OK, but this has been going on since the dawn of time. People are always trying to trick people into buying their product. It's called being a salesperson. I don't see this tracking as anything new. It's just easier now.
Social Media - A platform that makes it easier for the crazies to find each other. Everyone is born right handed. Only the strongest overcome it. Fight for left-handed rights and hand equality.
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Sander Rossel wrote:
and the manipulation is clever.
OK, but this has been going on since the dawn of time. People are always trying to trick people into buying their product. It's called being a salesperson. I don't see this tracking as anything new. It's just easier now.
Social Media - A platform that makes it easier for the crazies to find each other. Everyone is born right handed. Only the strongest overcome it. Fight for left-handed rights and hand equality.
Salesmanship has been going on since the dawn of barter but tracking stalking customers using data technology has not. There are now huge enterprises spending billions trying to surruptitiously trick, coerce and brainwash humanity. It doesn't feel like a good thing, in the least.
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I don't care about cookies - Chrome Web Store[^] The main problem about all this is - I care about privacy. Now I am left with two choices : Click the cookie or GDPR pop-up and navigate, or leave the site. What did improve now ? I cannot prevent the sites from collecting data, but only get warned that websites collect data. Which they all do. This GDPR thing is the most useless thing ever, a wrong solution to a real problem. What I would like is - If I do not subscribe to cookies or collecting data, then let me navigate your website WITHOUT COLLECTING THE DAMN DATA OR PUTTING COOKIES EVERYWHERE.
Rage wrote:
What I would like is - If I do not subscribe to cookies or collecting data, then let me navigate your website WITHOUT COLLECTING THE DAMN DATA OR PUTTING COOKIES EVERYWHERE.
I believe the intent of the GPDR is exactly that, but the ad companies deliberately put up these huge annoying dialogs expecting people to just click OK without fully realizing what they're agreeing to. That way they're in the clear with the GPDR and can collect data to their hearts content.
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Salesmanship has been going on since the dawn of barter but tracking stalking customers using data technology has not. There are now huge enterprises spending billions trying to surruptitiously trick, coerce and brainwash humanity. It doesn't feel like a good thing, in the least.
MKJCP wrote:
but tracking stalking customers using data technology has not.
Sure it has. The only difference now is that the technology has advanced. If a store knows that I buy a certain product and then gives me a coupon for it, I don't see the harm.
Social Media - A platform that makes it easier for the crazies to find each other. Everyone is born right handed. Only the strongest overcome it. Fight for left-handed rights and hand equality.
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I don't care about cookies - Chrome Web Store[^] The main problem about all this is - I care about privacy. Now I am left with two choices : Click the cookie or GDPR pop-up and navigate, or leave the site. What did improve now ? I cannot prevent the sites from collecting data, but only get warned that websites collect data. Which they all do. This GDPR thing is the most useless thing ever, a wrong solution to a real problem. What I would like is - If I do not subscribe to cookies or collecting data, then let me navigate your website WITHOUT COLLECTING THE DAMN DATA OR PUTTING COOKIES EVERYWHERE.
Rage wrote:
let me navigate your website WITHOUT COLLECTING THE DAMN DATA OR PUTTING COOKIES EVERYWHERE.
You want them to add if statements around all of their cookie code? :-D That could take some time.
Social Media - A platform that makes it easier for the crazies to find each other. Everyone is born right handed. Only the strongest overcome it. Fight for left-handed rights and hand equality.
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MKJCP wrote:
but tracking stalking customers using data technology has not.
Sure it has. The only difference now is that the technology has advanced. If a store knows that I buy a certain product and then gives me a coupon for it, I don't see the harm.
Social Media - A platform that makes it easier for the crazies to find each other. Everyone is born right handed. Only the strongest overcome it. Fight for left-handed rights and hand equality.
Quote:
Sure it has.
Stalking customers using data technology has been happening since the dawn of barter? I doubt you really mean that. If it were only products and coupons it would be harmless. I am saying the use of "big data" more generally is, on the whole, bad for society.
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Quote:
Sure it has.
Stalking customers using data technology has been happening since the dawn of barter? I doubt you really mean that. If it were only products and coupons it would be harmless. I am saying the use of "big data" more generally is, on the whole, bad for society.
MKJCP wrote:
I doubt you really mean that.
Sure. What first comes to mind are the grocery stores that long, long ago created memberships.
MKJCP wrote:
the use of "big data" more generally is, on the whole, bad for society.
Can you give an example of why? Because I feel like most people are scared because "WE'RE BEING TRACKED!!!" but not really realizing there is no harm. And even more so, because most everyone CARRIES A TRACKER AROUND IN THEIR POCKET already!!! :laugh:
Social Media - A platform that makes it easier for the crazies to find each other. Everyone is born right handed. Only the strongest overcome it. Fight for left-handed rights and hand equality.
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Is it just me...? More and more (it seems especially over the past couple of weeks?) many sites are putting up increasingly intrusive cookie permission pop-ups. What used to be a simple, narrow banner at the top of the page or an animated small slide-down somewhere, has now become a full, or almost full, screen div that obliterates most, or even all, of the page content. The cookie messages frequently include stupid statements such as "these cookies are essential to proper operation of the site" when all it is is a tracking cookie. Half the time I can't even tell if I really want to visit the site / read the article because the sodding cookie message hides everything else. Some give the option to accept cookies or to decline them; but many just have the option to accept or to not use the site. I realise the site owner has every right to put whatever conditions they like on their content, but it really winds me up. I'm finding that up to a dozen times a day I'm just right-clicking and choosing "Inspect element", then deleting the offending HTML element(s). This probably has no effect on the placement of cookies but I'm darned if I'm going to play the stupid games that the site authors clearly want to get involved in.
The industry and consumers need to figure-out a new way to work together. Simply having less cookies is still have cookies. Like when food says 10% less saturated fat. It's a workaround to makeing minimal change to the product, but actually does not long term help the consumer. You disliked being stabbed. We have a new product. Stabbing 2.0 - 90% less stabby.
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MKJCP wrote:
I doubt you really mean that.
Sure. What first comes to mind are the grocery stores that long, long ago created memberships.
MKJCP wrote:
the use of "big data" more generally is, on the whole, bad for society.
Can you give an example of why? Because I feel like most people are scared because "WE'RE BEING TRACKED!!!" but not really realizing there is no harm. And even more so, because most everyone CARRIES A TRACKER AROUND IN THEIR POCKET already!!! :laugh:
Social Media - A platform that makes it easier for the crazies to find each other. Everyone is born right handed. Only the strongest overcome it. Fight for left-handed rights and hand equality.
Facebook. It thrives on gathered data and attaches itself to peoples lives like a blood sucking leech. They aren't doing it for the users. I have been around long enough to see the before and after effects of all this great technology. On balance, the internet is a negative for society. Maybe I am jaded but I am not a mindless consipiracy theorist who is scared of being tracked.
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Facebook. It thrives on gathered data and attaches itself to peoples lives like a blood sucking leech. They aren't doing it for the users. I have been around long enough to see the before and after effects of all this great technology. On balance, the internet is a negative for society. Maybe I am jaded but I am not a mindless consipiracy theorist who is scared of being tracked.
MKJCP wrote:
Facebook. It thrives on gathered data and attaches itself to peoples lives like a blood sucking leech. They aren't doing it for the users.
Agree.
MKJCP wrote:
On balance, the internet is a negative for society.
Agree. But I am curious if you have more than feelings on this, if you have a specific example of all the data collection causing real harm.
Social Media - A platform that makes it easier for the crazies to find each other. Everyone is born right handed. Only the strongest overcome it. Fight for left-handed rights and hand equality.
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Is it just me...? More and more (it seems especially over the past couple of weeks?) many sites are putting up increasingly intrusive cookie permission pop-ups. What used to be a simple, narrow banner at the top of the page or an animated small slide-down somewhere, has now become a full, or almost full, screen div that obliterates most, or even all, of the page content. The cookie messages frequently include stupid statements such as "these cookies are essential to proper operation of the site" when all it is is a tracking cookie. Half the time I can't even tell if I really want to visit the site / read the article because the sodding cookie message hides everything else. Some give the option to accept cookies or to decline them; but many just have the option to accept or to not use the site. I realise the site owner has every right to put whatever conditions they like on their content, but it really winds me up. I'm finding that up to a dozen times a day I'm just right-clicking and choosing "Inspect element", then deleting the offending HTML element(s). This probably has no effect on the placement of cookies but I'm darned if I'm going to play the stupid games that the site authors clearly want to get involved in.
What's irritating as hell is having to respond to the same cookie message each time you go to the same web site, even if you already accepted the cookie usage. Someone is not coding their websites properly, or just does not give a %$#@!
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Is it just me...? More and more (it seems especially over the past couple of weeks?) many sites are putting up increasingly intrusive cookie permission pop-ups. What used to be a simple, narrow banner at the top of the page or an animated small slide-down somewhere, has now become a full, or almost full, screen div that obliterates most, or even all, of the page content. The cookie messages frequently include stupid statements such as "these cookies are essential to proper operation of the site" when all it is is a tracking cookie. Half the time I can't even tell if I really want to visit the site / read the article because the sodding cookie message hides everything else. Some give the option to accept cookies or to decline them; but many just have the option to accept or to not use the site. I realise the site owner has every right to put whatever conditions they like on their content, but it really winds me up. I'm finding that up to a dozen times a day I'm just right-clicking and choosing "Inspect element", then deleting the offending HTML element(s). This probably has no effect on the placement of cookies but I'm darned if I'm going to play the stupid games that the site authors clearly want to get involved in.
More interesting - I have firefox set up to accept only first-person cookies and then only until the browser's close (or, more often, I cull the herd). So - how will the blocked third-party cookies help my experience? Although not quite equivalent, when I want to remember you on a website I build I use $_SESSION variables - They have, at least in terms of privacy, only one reader - which is the site, itself. No third-party session variables. And gone when the browser closes. That being said, for public facing websites I don't even do that - only in-house sites to keep track of who's logged in where (encrypted values). Flip=phone just makes are receives phone calls - no cookie pleas (so far). Mobile users may want to emulate this plan (and save a lot of money on their phone, too).
"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein
"If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you are seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010
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MKJCP wrote:
Facebook. It thrives on gathered data and attaches itself to peoples lives like a blood sucking leech. They aren't doing it for the users.
Agree.
MKJCP wrote:
On balance, the internet is a negative for society.
Agree. But I am curious if you have more than feelings on this, if you have a specific example of all the data collection causing real harm.
Social Media - A platform that makes it easier for the crazies to find each other. Everyone is born right handed. Only the strongest overcome it. Fight for left-handed rights and hand equality.
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MKJCP wrote:
There are many cases of identity theft.
But that does not happen because of tracking data. And that also happened long before the internet or cookies.
Social Media - A platform that makes it easier for the crazies to find each other. Everyone is born right handed. Only the strongest overcome it. Fight for left-handed rights and hand equality.
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MKJCP wrote:
There are many cases of identity theft.
But that does not happen because of tracking data. And that also happened long before the internet or cookies.
Social Media - A platform that makes it easier for the crazies to find each other. Everyone is born right handed. Only the strongest overcome it. Fight for left-handed rights and hand equality.
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No, I said "Data Collection". You asked for an example. You seem to be stuck on tracking. The internet allowed the means for identity theft to become an industry. Do you have specific examples of identity theft as we know it long before the internet?
MKJCP wrote:
specific examples of identity theft as we know it long before the internet?
No, but I know it happened.
Social Media - A platform that makes it easier for the crazies to find each other. Everyone is born right handed. Only the strongest overcome it. Fight for left-handed rights and hand equality.
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MKJCP wrote:
Facebook. It thrives on gathered data and attaches itself to peoples lives like a blood sucking leech. They aren't doing it for the users.
Agree.
MKJCP wrote:
On balance, the internet is a negative for society.
Agree. But I am curious if you have more than feelings on this, if you have a specific example of all the data collection causing real harm.
Social Media - A platform that makes it easier for the crazies to find each other. Everyone is born right handed. Only the strongest overcome it. Fight for left-handed rights and hand equality.
ZurdoDev wrote:
specific example of all the data collection causing real harm
Did you read my post about companies preying on the weak (addicts, children, the sick, otherwise vulnerable people)? They know you're vulnerable and they take advantage of it using manipulation. Back in the days at least they didn't know your weaknesses, especially not of it's temporary, like illness. And if people knew, it was probably only local and at least companies from across the globe wouldn't leech you for it. And then of course there's the whole getting Trump elected thing (whether you believe that one or not, stuff like that does happen). I'm also not about conspiracy theories, but how is big companies knowing everything you do a good thing? They're inevitably going to use that data to make more money at your expense. Like selling your data so now everybody knows what you do, when you do it, where you do it and how you do it :)
Best, Sander sanderrossel.com Continuous Integration, Delivery, and Deployment arrgh.js - Bringing LINQ to JavaScript Object-Oriented Programming in C# Succinctly
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ZurdoDev wrote:
specific example of all the data collection causing real harm
Did you read my post about companies preying on the weak (addicts, children, the sick, otherwise vulnerable people)? They know you're vulnerable and they take advantage of it using manipulation. Back in the days at least they didn't know your weaknesses, especially not of it's temporary, like illness. And if people knew, it was probably only local and at least companies from across the globe wouldn't leech you for it. And then of course there's the whole getting Trump elected thing (whether you believe that one or not, stuff like that does happen). I'm also not about conspiracy theories, but how is big companies knowing everything you do a good thing? They're inevitably going to use that data to make more money at your expense. Like selling your data so now everybody knows what you do, when you do it, where you do it and how you do it :)
Best, Sander sanderrossel.com Continuous Integration, Delivery, and Deployment arrgh.js - Bringing LINQ to JavaScript Object-Oriented Programming in C# Succinctly
Sander Rossel wrote:
about companies preying on the weak (addicts, children, the sick, otherwise vulnerable people)?
Ya, but that's nothing new. Like I said, it's called being a salesman.
Sander Rossel wrote:
They're inevitably going to use that data to make more money at your expense.
Again, the only thing new here is that it is easier now. But the concept is as old as sales people have been around. The downfall of paying based on commissions only.
Sander Rossel wrote:
Like selling your data so now everybody knows what you do, when you do it, where you do it and how you do it
First off, most people have been carrying a tracking device in their pocket for years now. Secondly, no one has my address so no one can pinpoint my activities to me directly. And even if they did know that I bought toilet paper from walmart.com, what damage can that do?
Social Media - A platform that makes it easier for the crazies to find each other. Everyone is born right handed. Only the strongest overcome it. Fight for left-handed rights and hand equality.
