Bluetooth 4.0 connection protocol rules question - Any bluetooth expert out there?
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Hi all, INTRODUCTION I got a couple of KEF EGG loudspeakers that sound wonderful. Those loudspeakers come with multiple connection options, USB, 3.5mm jack, optical fiber and bluetooth. I never use the last one as I have them connected to my dock station using the USB port, taking maximum profit of the incorporated DAC they have. ISSUE Even the manual specifies that you must press and hold the button for 2 seconds to start a bluetooth connection (KEF EGG Quick Start Manual (Page 5 of 14)[^]) and that a little bit further the manual reads that while the pairing the loudspeakers lights blink slowly (KEF EGG Quick Start Manual (Page 8 of 14)[^]). But it seems that while the loudspeakers are in stand by mode the pairing is free and automatic... no need to press any button or doing any action in the loudspeaker side. For this reason my wife got a big scare as the loudspeakers started playing music at maximum volume suddenly while I was at a business travel as one neighbor decided to pair his phone with our loudspeakers. The KEF technical support guy has told me this is "by design" and that I should unplug the loudspeakers to avoid this... Given I have spent 400€ with the loudspeakers and that they sit on a sit/stand desk, in the back of two 24" monitors and the plug is under a lid, you can imagine how happy I am now... Of course I'm worried that: I could get my loudspeakers broken given a happy neighbor can decide to get them playing at maximum volume at will, I can have legal problems because the loudspeakers could start playing at maximum volume during nights if I'm not home, we can get scares at any moment. QUESTION Is there any rule on the bluetooth 4.0 protocols/specifications that force the pairing process to have some human participation (pressing a button, entering a password...) to be able to establish a connection? Thank you very much for your answers.
Having just read the wiki on Bluetooth there does not appear to be any mandatory password protected handshake required. One concern I would have is if the speaker also has a microphone. I have a bluetooth speaker that has a microphone (Betron KS808) and I leave it switched off when not using it partly for this reason.
“That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence.”
― Christopher Hitchens
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Yes, of course! I've went to the street and removed all the trees too, but it seems after putting them again in their place the problem still happens. Thank you lopatir for your help. :|
Joan M wrote:
I've went to the street and removed all the trees
Well, there's your problem. Trees don't connect to your speakers, your neighbors do. Leaving the trees alone, but removing your neighbors will definitely solve your problem ;) Please mark this as the accepted answer ;p
Best, Sander sanderrossel.com Continuous Integration, Delivery, and Deployment arrgh.js - Bringing LINQ to JavaScript Object-Oriented Programming in C# Succinctly
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Hi all, INTRODUCTION I got a couple of KEF EGG loudspeakers that sound wonderful. Those loudspeakers come with multiple connection options, USB, 3.5mm jack, optical fiber and bluetooth. I never use the last one as I have them connected to my dock station using the USB port, taking maximum profit of the incorporated DAC they have. ISSUE Even the manual specifies that you must press and hold the button for 2 seconds to start a bluetooth connection (KEF EGG Quick Start Manual (Page 5 of 14)[^]) and that a little bit further the manual reads that while the pairing the loudspeakers lights blink slowly (KEF EGG Quick Start Manual (Page 8 of 14)[^]). But it seems that while the loudspeakers are in stand by mode the pairing is free and automatic... no need to press any button or doing any action in the loudspeaker side. For this reason my wife got a big scare as the loudspeakers started playing music at maximum volume suddenly while I was at a business travel as one neighbor decided to pair his phone with our loudspeakers. The KEF technical support guy has told me this is "by design" and that I should unplug the loudspeakers to avoid this... Given I have spent 400€ with the loudspeakers and that they sit on a sit/stand desk, in the back of two 24" monitors and the plug is under a lid, you can imagine how happy I am now... Of course I'm worried that: I could get my loudspeakers broken given a happy neighbor can decide to get them playing at maximum volume at will, I can have legal problems because the loudspeakers could start playing at maximum volume during nights if I'm not home, we can get scares at any moment. QUESTION Is there any rule on the bluetooth 4.0 protocols/specifications that force the pairing process to have some human participation (pressing a button, entering a password...) to be able to establish a connection? Thank you very much for your answers.
I don't think a good or secure design is any legal obligation. Can't you return your loudspeakers, get your money back and get another one? This is definitely a defect in the product, even if it's "by design". I'd raise some hell over this over at KEF EGG and write a bunch of VERY negative reviews on Amazon, their website, etc. If they don't comply (although I think there ARE laws for that) you could even find a leading news website and threaten to share your story. It may somehow be in conflict with GDPR if it has a mic or remembers some of your preferences for example.
Best, Sander sanderrossel.com Continuous Integration, Delivery, and Deployment arrgh.js - Bringing LINQ to JavaScript Object-Oriented Programming in C# Succinctly
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Joan M wrote:
I've went to the street and removed all the trees
Well, there's your problem. Trees don't connect to your speakers, your neighbors do. Leaving the trees alone, but removing your neighbors will definitely solve your problem ;) Please mark this as the accepted answer ;p
Best, Sander sanderrossel.com Continuous Integration, Delivery, and Deployment arrgh.js - Bringing LINQ to JavaScript Object-Oriented Programming in C# Succinctly
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Having just read the wiki on Bluetooth there does not appear to be any mandatory password protected handshake required. One concern I would have is if the speaker also has a microphone. I have a bluetooth speaker that has a microphone (Betron KS808) and I leave it switched off when not using it partly for this reason.
“That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence.”
― Christopher Hitchens
Yes, but in this case, the power off button put the loudspeakers in standby... and in standby they accept pairings, and once paired... they can start them up at full volume... I'll have to end up putting a switch there that allow me to unplug them comfortably each time I don't use them.
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I don't think a good or secure design is any legal obligation. Can't you return your loudspeakers, get your money back and get another one? This is definitely a defect in the product, even if it's "by design". I'd raise some hell over this over at KEF EGG and write a bunch of VERY negative reviews on Amazon, their website, etc. If they don't comply (although I think there ARE laws for that) you could even find a leading news website and threaten to share your story. It may somehow be in conflict with GDPR if it has a mic or remembers some of your preferences for example.
Best, Sander sanderrossel.com Continuous Integration, Delivery, and Deployment arrgh.js - Bringing LINQ to JavaScript Object-Oriented Programming in C# Succinctly
Don't know if the shop will allow me to do this because it's been one year ago... The problem appeared one month ago +/-. I'll contact them again to see if they can offer a firmware update to solve this, but given their initial answer this is "by design"... I guess the only real option (after sending a last mail to them, and paying a visit to the shop to try to return them) is doing what you suggest... A real pity because the sound quality is amazing.
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Hi all, INTRODUCTION I got a couple of KEF EGG loudspeakers that sound wonderful. Those loudspeakers come with multiple connection options, USB, 3.5mm jack, optical fiber and bluetooth. I never use the last one as I have them connected to my dock station using the USB port, taking maximum profit of the incorporated DAC they have. ISSUE Even the manual specifies that you must press and hold the button for 2 seconds to start a bluetooth connection (KEF EGG Quick Start Manual (Page 5 of 14)[^]) and that a little bit further the manual reads that while the pairing the loudspeakers lights blink slowly (KEF EGG Quick Start Manual (Page 8 of 14)[^]). But it seems that while the loudspeakers are in stand by mode the pairing is free and automatic... no need to press any button or doing any action in the loudspeaker side. For this reason my wife got a big scare as the loudspeakers started playing music at maximum volume suddenly while I was at a business travel as one neighbor decided to pair his phone with our loudspeakers. The KEF technical support guy has told me this is "by design" and that I should unplug the loudspeakers to avoid this... Given I have spent 400€ with the loudspeakers and that they sit on a sit/stand desk, in the back of two 24" monitors and the plug is under a lid, you can imagine how happy I am now... Of course I'm worried that: I could get my loudspeakers broken given a happy neighbor can decide to get them playing at maximum volume at will, I can have legal problems because the loudspeakers could start playing at maximum volume during nights if I'm not home, we can get scares at any moment. QUESTION Is there any rule on the bluetooth 4.0 protocols/specifications that force the pairing process to have some human participation (pressing a button, entering a password...) to be able to establish a connection? Thank you very much for your answers.
I've worked with Bluetooth (classic) and BLE (Limited Energy) a bit with Android, Arduino etc. The only relevance that may have to this is that it _should_ be quite easy to open up the speakers and de-solder the connection for the Bluetooth device. You _should_ be able to disable (desolder) the Bluetooth component if you can get into the speakers. However, the problem may be with opening up the speakers. I know a lot of times with consumer products they basically have no way in without destroying the outer appearance. Is this a possibility? Can you get into the electronics without destroying the appearance. If you can you can surely remove the Bluetooth capability and still have functioning speakers. BTW that is unfortunate that is such a terrible design.
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I've worked with Bluetooth (classic) and BLE (Limited Energy) a bit with Android, Arduino etc. The only relevance that may have to this is that it _should_ be quite easy to open up the speakers and de-solder the connection for the Bluetooth device. You _should_ be able to disable (desolder) the Bluetooth component if you can get into the speakers. However, the problem may be with opening up the speakers. I know a lot of times with consumer products they basically have no way in without destroying the outer appearance. Is this a possibility? Can you get into the electronics without destroying the appearance. If you can you can surely remove the Bluetooth capability and still have functioning speakers. BTW that is unfortunate that is such a terrible design.
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Don't know if the shop will allow me to do this because it's been one year ago... The problem appeared one month ago +/-. I'll contact them again to see if they can offer a firmware update to solve this, but given their initial answer this is "by design"... I guess the only real option (after sending a last mail to them, and paying a visit to the shop to try to return them) is doing what you suggest... A real pity because the sound quality is amazing.
Joan M wrote:
I'll contact them again to see if they can offer a firmware update to solve this, but given their initial answer this is "by design"...
The #InternetOfShit isn't limited to devices with wifi/cellular connectivity. Any sort of wireless link is sufficient. X|
Did you ever see history portrayed as an old man with a wise brow and pulseless heart, weighing all things in the balance of reason? Is not rather the genius of history like an eternal, imploring maiden, full of fire, with a burning heart and flaming soul, humanly warm and humanly beautiful? --Zachris Topelius Training a telescope on one’s own belly button will only reveal lint. You like that? You go right on staring at it. I prefer looking at galaxies. -- Sarah Hoyt
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Hi all, INTRODUCTION I got a couple of KEF EGG loudspeakers that sound wonderful. Those loudspeakers come with multiple connection options, USB, 3.5mm jack, optical fiber and bluetooth. I never use the last one as I have them connected to my dock station using the USB port, taking maximum profit of the incorporated DAC they have. ISSUE Even the manual specifies that you must press and hold the button for 2 seconds to start a bluetooth connection (KEF EGG Quick Start Manual (Page 5 of 14)[^]) and that a little bit further the manual reads that while the pairing the loudspeakers lights blink slowly (KEF EGG Quick Start Manual (Page 8 of 14)[^]). But it seems that while the loudspeakers are in stand by mode the pairing is free and automatic... no need to press any button or doing any action in the loudspeaker side. For this reason my wife got a big scare as the loudspeakers started playing music at maximum volume suddenly while I was at a business travel as one neighbor decided to pair his phone with our loudspeakers. The KEF technical support guy has told me this is "by design" and that I should unplug the loudspeakers to avoid this... Given I have spent 400€ with the loudspeakers and that they sit on a sit/stand desk, in the back of two 24" monitors and the plug is under a lid, you can imagine how happy I am now... Of course I'm worried that: I could get my loudspeakers broken given a happy neighbor can decide to get them playing at maximum volume at will, I can have legal problems because the loudspeakers could start playing at maximum volume during nights if I'm not home, we can get scares at any moment. QUESTION Is there any rule on the bluetooth 4.0 protocols/specifications that force the pairing process to have some human participation (pressing a button, entering a password...) to be able to establish a connection? Thank you very much for your answers.
Hi, You say it connects when in standby mode, but whilst powered up you have to fiddle with buttons to connect? So why not just leave it permanently powered up? Just turn down volume or supply no signal? Oh and buy another speaker of same make and give it to the neighbour then connect periodically and mess with them! :D Cheerio
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Hi, You say it connects when in standby mode, but whilst powered up you have to fiddle with buttons to connect? So why not just leave it permanently powered up? Just turn down volume or supply no signal? Oh and buy another speaker of same make and give it to the neighbour then connect periodically and mess with them! :D Cheerio
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Hi all, INTRODUCTION I got a couple of KEF EGG loudspeakers that sound wonderful. Those loudspeakers come with multiple connection options, USB, 3.5mm jack, optical fiber and bluetooth. I never use the last one as I have them connected to my dock station using the USB port, taking maximum profit of the incorporated DAC they have. ISSUE Even the manual specifies that you must press and hold the button for 2 seconds to start a bluetooth connection (KEF EGG Quick Start Manual (Page 5 of 14)[^]) and that a little bit further the manual reads that while the pairing the loudspeakers lights blink slowly (KEF EGG Quick Start Manual (Page 8 of 14)[^]). But it seems that while the loudspeakers are in stand by mode the pairing is free and automatic... no need to press any button or doing any action in the loudspeaker side. For this reason my wife got a big scare as the loudspeakers started playing music at maximum volume suddenly while I was at a business travel as one neighbor decided to pair his phone with our loudspeakers. The KEF technical support guy has told me this is "by design" and that I should unplug the loudspeakers to avoid this... Given I have spent 400€ with the loudspeakers and that they sit on a sit/stand desk, in the back of two 24" monitors and the plug is under a lid, you can imagine how happy I am now... Of course I'm worried that: I could get my loudspeakers broken given a happy neighbor can decide to get them playing at maximum volume at will, I can have legal problems because the loudspeakers could start playing at maximum volume during nights if I'm not home, we can get scares at any moment. QUESTION Is there any rule on the bluetooth 4.0 protocols/specifications that force the pairing process to have some human participation (pressing a button, entering a password...) to be able to establish a connection? Thank you very much for your answers.
Unless you're using Class 1, the range should be "about" 30 feet or less. So, HE'S IN YOUR HOUSE!!!
The Master said, 'Am I indeed possessed of knowledge? I am not knowing. But if a mean person, who appears quite empty-like, ask anything of me, I set it forth from one end to the other, and exhaust it.' ― Confucian Analects
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Unless you're using Class 1, the range should be "about" 30 feet or less. So, HE'S IN YOUR HOUSE!!!
The Master said, 'Am I indeed possessed of knowledge? I am not knowing. But if a mean person, who appears quite empty-like, ask anything of me, I set it forth from one end to the other, and exhaust it.' ― Confucian Analects
I've been able to get more than 10 meters away from the loudspeakers while streaming music via Bluetooth... Not tried to go further... I have the loudspeakers in a room that's close to my neighbor house... just a wall between both... Now that you say that... I'd love having that guy/girl in my house... that way he/she could learn to fly through my window.
