Final standalone IE version is 6 SP1
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How about writing an article laying out specifically what needs addressing? cheers, Chris Maunder
I don't see how that would do any good... there are endless improvements that I can think of. The problem is that ramping IE back up, including downlevel, will most likely take Jim Allchin mandating it and allocating the necessary resources. I don't see that happening unless a lot of really important people start complaining or they feel there's a significant competative threat. :( The browser just isn't considered important anymore; they're complacent. My opinion on this, even as a developer on Longhorn, pretty much just gets ignored.
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I don't see how that would do any good... there are endless improvements that I can think of. The problem is that ramping IE back up, including downlevel, will most likely take Jim Allchin mandating it and allocating the necessary resources. I don't see that happening unless a lot of really important people start complaining or they feel there's a significant competative threat. :( The browser just isn't considered important anymore; they're complacent. My opinion on this, even as a developer on Longhorn, pretty much just gets ignored.
CoolDev wrote: The browser just isn't considered important anymore; they're complacent. My opinion on this, even as a developer on Longhorn, pretty much just gets ignored. In your opinion, Why do you think this is so? Is it because they have never tried Opera or anything besides AOL? or is it just the most logical choice at this point as far as no one comes close to them in the OS sales/installs? :-D Later,
JoeSox
www.humanaiproject.org "Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one." -Albert Einstein (INTP) -
As part of the OS, IE will continue to evolve, but there will be no future standalone installations. IE6 SP1 is the final standalone installation." The reason? "Legacy OSes have reached their zenith with the addition of IE 6 SP1," he said. "Further improvements to IE will require enhancements to the underlying OS." Microsoft Drops the Ball with Internet Explorer[^] Either the IE PM is good at his (marketing) job or he's clueless. I'm stunned to see such a statement from a Program Manager at Microsoft. cheers, Chris Maunder
This really shouldn't come as a shock to anyone. They're laying the groundwork to *completely* embed the browser into the OS in order to avoid any more legal entanglements. Maybe the CPP should be a Linux-based effort instead of wasting time on something for Windows. It's obvious that Microsoft wants to own the applications market since they already obviously own everything else. ------- signature starts "...the staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - Jason Jystad, 10/26/2001 Please review the Legal Disclaimer in my bio. ------- signature ends
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:omg: X| :laugh: Long live AvantBrowser! I hope MS isn't planning a secret way to nuke all the 3rd-party browsers that depend on the IE browser control.
"Do unto others as you would have them do unto you." - Jesus
"An eye for an eye only makes the whole world blind." - Mahatma Gandhijdunlap wrote: I hope MS isn't planning a secret way to nuke all the 3rd-party browsers that depend on the IE browser control. Don't joke. The handy plus pack for MSN/Windows Messenger no longer works on MSN Messenger 6 BETA. The author the utility blames MS for deliberatly changing things to block his app. Don't know how true that is but still.
Paul Watson
Bluegrass
Cape Town, South AfricaChris Losinger wrote: i hate needles so much i can't even imagine allowing one near The Little Programmer
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:omg: X| :laugh: Long live AvantBrowser! I hope MS isn't planning a secret way to nuke all the 3rd-party browsers that depend on the IE browser control.
"Do unto others as you would have them do unto you." - Jesus
"An eye for an eye only makes the whole world blind." - Mahatma GandhiI tried Avant for a while but didn't like it; too many bugs, too much resource consumption. I'm using Crazy Browser now which is very similar in operation and features but more stable.
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CodeProject will support other browsers more fully as soon we can. "Other" browsers don't fully support the features that IE provides. I'm looking into the Range object [^] that Mozilla 1.4 provides but, alas, it's broken. Sigh... cheers, Chris Maunder
Chris Maunder wrote: "Other" browsers don't fully support the features that IE provides. Yeah I know, it's just depressing every 6 months or so when I try the latest Opera and Mozilla that they seem to display "most" sites pretty well but CP "not so well". :( Well good luck, God speed, and don't hesitate to ask if you need anything to this end. ;) Mike Mullikin :beer:
We are just an advanced breed of monkeys on a minor planet of a very average star. But we can understand the Universe. That makes us something very special.
Stephen Hawking -
Chris Maunder wrote: "Other" browsers don't fully support the features that IE provides. Yeah I know, it's just depressing every 6 months or so when I try the latest Opera and Mozilla that they seem to display "most" sites pretty well but CP "not so well". :( Well good luck, God speed, and don't hesitate to ask if you need anything to this end. ;) Mike Mullikin :beer:
We are just an advanced breed of monkeys on a minor planet of a very average star. But we can understand the Universe. That makes us something very special.
Stephen HawkingI have this weird gift in finding the one piece of functionality that will break a particular component or application. LAst time I checked Opera the DHTML thing was simply broken (probably time for me to recheck), and Mozilla is rendering CP pretty much pixel perfect except the li'l extra bits (text manipulation within message posting, WYSIWYG article editor) just aren't there for me to use. It was Mozilla's own own demonstrations of its Range object I tried, so I was totally frustrated to find those demos themselves not working properly cheers, Chris Maunder
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CoolDev wrote: The browser just isn't considered important anymore; they're complacent. My opinion on this, even as a developer on Longhorn, pretty much just gets ignored. In your opinion, Why do you think this is so? Is it because they have never tried Opera or anything besides AOL? or is it just the most logical choice at this point as far as no one comes close to them in the OS sales/installs? :-D Later,
JoeSox
www.humanaiproject.org "Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one." -Albert Einstein (INTP)My personal opinion is that it's a combination of factors: * People are mostly happy with IE. * The focus is on .NET and new technologies; those of you who attended the design preview or go to the PDC this fall will see what I mean. * The biggest response I get when I rant about IE falling behind is: "So what?". IMHO it's important because the browser is one of the most used components in an operating system, and IE competitively differentiates Windows from the alternatives. Others don't see it that way because browsers don't directly generate revenue. :shrug: * Having the browser and the DOM stay still for a while gives web developers a chance to catch up and build on an unchanging foundation. Don't get me wrong, and don't quote me... I'm very excited about a lot of the work that's being done, I just wish IE got more attention than it does these days. BTW: This isn't a new developement[^]. Ok, I'll shut up now. :cool:
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My personal opinion is that it's a combination of factors: * People are mostly happy with IE. * The focus is on .NET and new technologies; those of you who attended the design preview or go to the PDC this fall will see what I mean. * The biggest response I get when I rant about IE falling behind is: "So what?". IMHO it's important because the browser is one of the most used components in an operating system, and IE competitively differentiates Windows from the alternatives. Others don't see it that way because browsers don't directly generate revenue. :shrug: * Having the browser and the DOM stay still for a while gives web developers a chance to catch up and build on an unchanging foundation. Don't get me wrong, and don't quote me... I'm very excited about a lot of the work that's being done, I just wish IE got more attention than it does these days. BTW: This isn't a new developement[^]. Ok, I'll shut up now. :cool:
CoolDev wrote: My personal opinion is that it's a combination of factors: well, if I were in your shoes, I would probably be doing the same thing as you. Who knows, when it becomes time for MS to redesign the webbrowser, maybe they will come to you for some ideas, who knows. But I think it is good in away that they are holding off. Many coders see the need for better webbrowsers. Many people are getting creative and are coming up with great ideas, I just wish someone would develop the "Perfect web browser": -Speed, interface, and total options of Opera -Plug ins/toolbars like IE -RSS (still haven't been successful in testing this out yet) -and my idea research/conceptual spidering[^] -and of course my PowerMini[^] option:-D I have done about 4 Microsoft Usability studies and have really felt like I have been helping them. My last one was participating in the next version of Windows Server, which of course I probably shouldn't have said that and therefore can not say anything more, except that it very very interesting;) Later,
JoeSox
www.humanaiproject.org "Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one." -Albert Einstein (INTP) -
I have this weird gift in finding the one piece of functionality that will break a particular component or application. LAst time I checked Opera the DHTML thing was simply broken (probably time for me to recheck), and Mozilla is rendering CP pretty much pixel perfect except the li'l extra bits (text manipulation within message posting, WYSIWYG article editor) just aren't there for me to use. It was Mozilla's own own demonstrations of its Range object I tried, so I was totally frustrated to find those demos themselves not working properly cheers, Chris Maunder
Have you considered emailing the mozilla project/mailing list ? Considering you run an extremely popuplar site, and many of us have expressed varying levels of frustration over this, they might be able to fast track some bug fixes? Alternately if not only you, but many of us (i.e. the whiners :) ) also emailed them/submitted bugs for this faulty behaviour that might also make a difference. Yet another alternative would be to submit the email with the request that someone please explain (or narrow down) where the error is in the mozilla source code and someonce from CP could fix it. ¡El diablo está en mis pantalones! ¡Mire, mire! Real Mentats use only 100% pure, unfooled around with Sapho Juice(tm)!
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This really shouldn't come as a shock to anyone. They're laying the groundwork to *completely* embed the browser into the OS in order to avoid any more legal entanglements. Maybe the CPP should be a Linux-based effort instead of wasting time on something for Windows. It's obvious that Microsoft wants to own the applications market since they already obviously own everything else. ------- signature starts "...the staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - Jason Jystad, 10/26/2001 Please review the Legal Disclaimer in my bio. ------- signature ends
If people would help me out with the VCF[^] we'd have a top notch application framework, comparable to Qt, that's free, usable in commercial apps, and offering a migration path off MS dependencies as well as allowing your application to work on other platforms. Much of the Win32 code is ready to go (i know some people who are using it for production apps), and I am gradually porting it over to Linux(GTK) and MacSX. In addition you, or anyone else, could help with the VCF Builder, which provides a full blown IDE for C++ development, also cross platform, and tool chain agnostic. ¡El diablo está en mis pantalones! ¡Mire, mire! Real Mentats use only 100% pure, unfooled around with Sapho Juice(tm)!
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Have you considered emailing the mozilla project/mailing list ? Considering you run an extremely popuplar site, and many of us have expressed varying levels of frustration over this, they might be able to fast track some bug fixes? Alternately if not only you, but many of us (i.e. the whiners :) ) also emailed them/submitted bugs for this faulty behaviour that might also make a difference. Yet another alternative would be to submit the email with the request that someone please explain (or narrow down) where the error is in the mozilla source code and someonce from CP could fix it. ¡El diablo está en mis pantalones! ¡Mire, mire! Real Mentats use only 100% pure, unfooled around with Sapho Juice(tm)!
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jdunlap wrote: I hope MS isn't planning a secret way to nuke all the 3rd-party browsers that depend on the IE browser control. Don't joke. The handy plus pack for MSN/Windows Messenger no longer works on MSN Messenger 6 BETA. The author the utility blames MS for deliberatly changing things to block his app. Don't know how true that is but still.
Paul Watson
Bluegrass
Cape Town, South AfricaChris Losinger wrote: i hate needles so much i can't even imagine allowing one near The Little Programmer