job interview ? what's personality got to do with hiring programmers ?
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Generally, the content of Fast Company essays leave me slightly nauseous, but, scattered among the bits of this one: [^] ... I am reminded of some real-world experiences I had back in the daze when I was more than just another cubicle-hamster in silicon valley.
Quote:
When it comes to nailing an interview, your personality may play a larger role than you think. According to a recent study conducted by TopInterview and Resume-Library, 70% of employers consider a candidate’s personality to be among the top three factors in deciding whether to extend a job offer. It’s substantially more important than education (18%) or appearance (7%). So, what personality traits will make or break your chances of landing the job? Employers reported that “overconfidence” was the most offensive. However, when asked which personality traits they find the most attractive, they rated “confidence” as the second-most important quality.
Seem a bit contradictory ? Over-confidence/arrogance: yep, seen that one cost a middle-level program manager candidate their chance at a very lucrative position. But, when someone has demonstrated, in their existing software achievements, very high skill levels ... how much does personality come into play ... once you rule out obvious deal-breakers like extreme behavior/conduct ? Of course, I speak of a time before Agile, Scrum: perhaps those "ideologies/religions" make interviewing, today, more focused on personality. ability to interact ? I hate that inevitable question about: "the time when you made a mistake ..." ! For marketers, I'd demand nothing less than perfect abilities to bs :omg:
«One day it will have to be officially admitted that what we have christened reality is an even greater illusion than the world of dreams.» Salvador Dali
pass the exam get the job !!! [How to Hire a Programmer](https://blog.codinghorror.com/how-to-hire-a-programmer/) [Programmer Competency Matrix](https://sijinjoseph.com/programmer-competency-matrix/) ... Even in the best of circumstances, hiring human beings is hard. A job opportunity may not work out for reasons far beyond anyone's control. People are, as they say, complicated.
Caveat Emptor. "Progress doesn't come from early risers – progress is made by lazy men looking for easier ways to do things." Lazarus Long
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Generally, the content of Fast Company essays leave me slightly nauseous, but, scattered among the bits of this one: [^] ... I am reminded of some real-world experiences I had back in the daze when I was more than just another cubicle-hamster in silicon valley.
Quote:
When it comes to nailing an interview, your personality may play a larger role than you think. According to a recent study conducted by TopInterview and Resume-Library, 70% of employers consider a candidate’s personality to be among the top three factors in deciding whether to extend a job offer. It’s substantially more important than education (18%) or appearance (7%). So, what personality traits will make or break your chances of landing the job? Employers reported that “overconfidence” was the most offensive. However, when asked which personality traits they find the most attractive, they rated “confidence” as the second-most important quality.
Seem a bit contradictory ? Over-confidence/arrogance: yep, seen that one cost a middle-level program manager candidate their chance at a very lucrative position. But, when someone has demonstrated, in their existing software achievements, very high skill levels ... how much does personality come into play ... once you rule out obvious deal-breakers like extreme behavior/conduct ? Of course, I speak of a time before Agile, Scrum: perhaps those "ideologies/religions" make interviewing, today, more focused on personality. ability to interact ? I hate that inevitable question about: "the time when you made a mistake ..." ! For marketers, I'd demand nothing less than perfect abilities to bs :omg:
«One day it will have to be officially admitted that what we have christened reality is an even greater illusion than the world of dreams.» Salvador Dali
I am going to argue that it does play a big part. Every project I have seen fail has generally been because someone with great technical skills and a high IQ believes that those skills also mean that they have good judgement. That then translates into a lack of communication and even in the world of programming there are complexities which require input from outside of the machine and the single individual. Technical skills are definitely no.1 on the list but I think communication and attitude are no. 2.
“That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence.”
― Christopher Hitchens
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I am going to argue that it does play a big part. Every project I have seen fail has generally been because someone with great technical skills and a high IQ believes that those skills also mean that they have good judgement. That then translates into a lack of communication and even in the world of programming there are complexities which require input from outside of the machine and the single individual. Technical skills are definitely no.1 on the list but I think communication and attitude are no. 2.
“That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence.”
― Christopher Hitchens
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Generally, the content of Fast Company essays leave me slightly nauseous, but, scattered among the bits of this one: [^] ... I am reminded of some real-world experiences I had back in the daze when I was more than just another cubicle-hamster in silicon valley.
Quote:
When it comes to nailing an interview, your personality may play a larger role than you think. According to a recent study conducted by TopInterview and Resume-Library, 70% of employers consider a candidate’s personality to be among the top three factors in deciding whether to extend a job offer. It’s substantially more important than education (18%) or appearance (7%). So, what personality traits will make or break your chances of landing the job? Employers reported that “overconfidence” was the most offensive. However, when asked which personality traits they find the most attractive, they rated “confidence” as the second-most important quality.
Seem a bit contradictory ? Over-confidence/arrogance: yep, seen that one cost a middle-level program manager candidate their chance at a very lucrative position. But, when someone has demonstrated, in their existing software achievements, very high skill levels ... how much does personality come into play ... once you rule out obvious deal-breakers like extreme behavior/conduct ? Of course, I speak of a time before Agile, Scrum: perhaps those "ideologies/religions" make interviewing, today, more focused on personality. ability to interact ? I hate that inevitable question about: "the time when you made a mistake ..." ! For marketers, I'd demand nothing less than perfect abilities to bs :omg:
«One day it will have to be officially admitted that what we have christened reality is an even greater illusion than the world of dreams.» Salvador Dali
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I daresay personality matters a lot. A software team becomes efficient with team players. Much less so with sod-you-all-linus-thorwalds-genius-types.
"If we don't change direction, we'll end up where we're going"
My experience is that it is much easier to teach a reasonably intelligent, but not super genius software developer, some of the technicalities of software development than it is to try to convince a technically genius jerk that their lack of decent communication could do with some looking at.
“That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence.”
― Christopher Hitchens
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Generally, the content of Fast Company essays leave me slightly nauseous, but, scattered among the bits of this one: [^] ... I am reminded of some real-world experiences I had back in the daze when I was more than just another cubicle-hamster in silicon valley.
Quote:
When it comes to nailing an interview, your personality may play a larger role than you think. According to a recent study conducted by TopInterview and Resume-Library, 70% of employers consider a candidate’s personality to be among the top three factors in deciding whether to extend a job offer. It’s substantially more important than education (18%) or appearance (7%). So, what personality traits will make or break your chances of landing the job? Employers reported that “overconfidence” was the most offensive. However, when asked which personality traits they find the most attractive, they rated “confidence” as the second-most important quality.
Seem a bit contradictory ? Over-confidence/arrogance: yep, seen that one cost a middle-level program manager candidate their chance at a very lucrative position. But, when someone has demonstrated, in their existing software achievements, very high skill levels ... how much does personality come into play ... once you rule out obvious deal-breakers like extreme behavior/conduct ? Of course, I speak of a time before Agile, Scrum: perhaps those "ideologies/religions" make interviewing, today, more focused on personality. ability to interact ? I hate that inevitable question about: "the time when you made a mistake ..." ! For marketers, I'd demand nothing less than perfect abilities to bs :omg:
«One day it will have to be officially admitted that what we have christened reality is an even greater illusion than the world of dreams.» Salvador Dali
Skill can be learned, personality cannot. Give me an averagely skilled team player anytime over two skilled self absorbed developers. Companies hire people, not skills.
GCS d--(d+) s-/++ a C++++ U+++ P- L+@ E-- W++ N+ o+ K- w+++ O? M-- V? PS+ PE- Y+ PGP t+ 5? X R+++ tv-- b+(+++) DI+++ D++ G e++ h--- r+++ y+++* Weapons extension: ma- k++ F+2 X
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Skill can be learned, personality cannot. Give me an averagely skilled team player anytime over two skilled self absorbed developers. Companies hire people, not skills.
GCS d--(d+) s-/++ a C++++ U+++ P- L+@ E-- W++ N+ o+ K- w+++ O? M-- V? PS+ PE- Y+ PGP t+ 5? X R+++ tv-- b+(+++) DI+++ D++ G e++ h--- r+++ y+++* Weapons extension: ma- k++ F+2 X
den2k88 wrote:
Skill can be learned, personality cannot
I disagree, personality, I believe can also be learnt. The thing is very few people ever try, it is frustrating for sure but it can be done. Having said that while personality can be learned, nature does not change. So even if somebody manages to learn "personality" they would constantly be in conflict with their nature. Resulting in constant frustration.
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den2k88 wrote:
Skill can be learned, personality cannot
I disagree, personality, I believe can also be learnt. The thing is very few people ever try, it is frustrating for sure but it can be done. Having said that while personality can be learned, nature does not change. So even if somebody manages to learn "personality" they would constantly be in conflict with their nature. Resulting in constant frustration.
Abbas A. Ali wrote:
Having said that while personality can be learned, nature does not change. So even if somebody manages to learn "personality" they would constantly be in conflict with their nature. Resulting in constant frustration.
You explained it way better than me :)
GCS d--(d+) s-/++ a C++++ U+++ P- L+@ E-- W++ N+ o+ K- w+++ O? M-- V? PS+ PE- Y+ PGP t+ 5? X R+++ tv-- b+(+++) DI+++ D++ G e++ h--- r+++ y+++* Weapons extension: ma- k++ F+2 X
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I am going to argue that it does play a big part. Every project I have seen fail has generally been because someone with great technical skills and a high IQ believes that those skills also mean that they have good judgement. That then translates into a lack of communication and even in the world of programming there are complexities which require input from outside of the machine and the single individual. Technical skills are definitely no.1 on the list but I think communication and attitude are no. 2.
“That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence.”
― Christopher Hitchens
GuyThiebaut wrote:
Technical skills are definitely no.1 on the list but I think communication and attitude are no. 2.
I'd go as far as to switch those two. An asshole genius will wear your whole team down while a mediocre team player can be taught some additional skills and will eventually be an asset to the team. I've been in a team with one such asshole (although he was far from a genius, actually one of the worst programmers I've ever seen), but the whole project suffered from his personality and two people, me included, quit the company because of him (that was a 1/3th of the team!).
Best, Sander sanderrossel.com Continuous Integration, Delivery, and Deployment arrgh.js - Bringing LINQ to JavaScript Object-Oriented Programming in C# Succinctly
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Generally, the content of Fast Company essays leave me slightly nauseous, but, scattered among the bits of this one: [^] ... I am reminded of some real-world experiences I had back in the daze when I was more than just another cubicle-hamster in silicon valley.
Quote:
When it comes to nailing an interview, your personality may play a larger role than you think. According to a recent study conducted by TopInterview and Resume-Library, 70% of employers consider a candidate’s personality to be among the top three factors in deciding whether to extend a job offer. It’s substantially more important than education (18%) or appearance (7%). So, what personality traits will make or break your chances of landing the job? Employers reported that “overconfidence” was the most offensive. However, when asked which personality traits they find the most attractive, they rated “confidence” as the second-most important quality.
Seem a bit contradictory ? Over-confidence/arrogance: yep, seen that one cost a middle-level program manager candidate their chance at a very lucrative position. But, when someone has demonstrated, in their existing software achievements, very high skill levels ... how much does personality come into play ... once you rule out obvious deal-breakers like extreme behavior/conduct ? Of course, I speak of a time before Agile, Scrum: perhaps those "ideologies/religions" make interviewing, today, more focused on personality. ability to interact ? I hate that inevitable question about: "the time when you made a mistake ..." ! For marketers, I'd demand nothing less than perfect abilities to bs :omg:
«One day it will have to be officially admitted that what we have christened reality is an even greater illusion than the world of dreams.» Salvador Dali
The personality of one ex-coworker made two people (1/3rd of that team), including me, quit the company. Having a toxic coworker can severely damage your product, the team and your company. No amount of technical skills (or whatever profession you're in) can change that. I've had another such coworker at another company who didn't make anyone leave, but probably only because he was one of the bosses and he could work alone for the most part. His personality made that he called the customer and asked "I'm reading in your document about an EPAL-pallet, but what's that?" The definition of an EPAL-pallet is easily Googlable, he could've asked a coworker, it wasn't necessary to complete the job to begin with, but he called the customer making the whole company look like a fool who clearly didn't have domain knowledge (while that was kind of our sales pitch). I think the customer even asked for a discount because of that phone call, because they expected real professionals who knew what an EPAL-pallet was. Another time, a coworker and me where waiting at the client, it was like 8:55 and we had a meeting at 09:00, so this EPAL-pallet guy comes in and says, in front of the CFO who occassionally gave us a hard time, "well then, I see [name of our company] is standing with it's hands in their pockets." He then grabbed his laptop and started to work (he wasn't invited for the meeting). He honestly did not see the damage he had just done while my coworker and I were holding our breath (luckily, we never heard from that incident again). That's what the personality of one person can do.
Best, Sander sanderrossel.com Continuous Integration, Delivery, and Deployment arrgh.js - Bringing LINQ to JavaScript Object-Oriented Programming in C# Succinctly
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Generally, the content of Fast Company essays leave me slightly nauseous, but, scattered among the bits of this one: [^] ... I am reminded of some real-world experiences I had back in the daze when I was more than just another cubicle-hamster in silicon valley.
Quote:
When it comes to nailing an interview, your personality may play a larger role than you think. According to a recent study conducted by TopInterview and Resume-Library, 70% of employers consider a candidate’s personality to be among the top three factors in deciding whether to extend a job offer. It’s substantially more important than education (18%) or appearance (7%). So, what personality traits will make or break your chances of landing the job? Employers reported that “overconfidence” was the most offensive. However, when asked which personality traits they find the most attractive, they rated “confidence” as the second-most important quality.
Seem a bit contradictory ? Over-confidence/arrogance: yep, seen that one cost a middle-level program manager candidate their chance at a very lucrative position. But, when someone has demonstrated, in their existing software achievements, very high skill levels ... how much does personality come into play ... once you rule out obvious deal-breakers like extreme behavior/conduct ? Of course, I speak of a time before Agile, Scrum: perhaps those "ideologies/religions" make interviewing, today, more focused on personality. ability to interact ? I hate that inevitable question about: "the time when you made a mistake ..." ! For marketers, I'd demand nothing less than perfect abilities to bs :omg:
«One day it will have to be officially admitted that what we have christened reality is an even greater illusion than the world of dreams.» Salvador Dali
In our country personality is very important factor in job interview. Unless you know Embedded Linux. If you are Embedded Linux specialist, you may be (and probably must be) a piece of sh*t, the job is yours. Sometimes it's worth to know something that script-kiddies don't know.
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GuyThiebaut wrote:
Technical skills are definitely no.1 on the list but I think communication and attitude are no. 2.
I'd go as far as to switch those two. An asshole genius will wear your whole team down while a mediocre team player can be taught some additional skills and will eventually be an asset to the team. I've been in a team with one such asshole (although he was far from a genius, actually one of the worst programmers I've ever seen), but the whole project suffered from his personality and two people, me included, quit the company because of him (that was a 1/3th of the team!).
Best, Sander sanderrossel.com Continuous Integration, Delivery, and Deployment arrgh.js - Bringing LINQ to JavaScript Object-Oriented Programming in C# Succinctly
Sander Rossel wrote:
I've been in a team with one such a**hole (although he was far from a genius, actually one of the worst programmers I've ever seen), but the whole project suffered from his personality and two people, me included, quit the company because of him (that was a 1/3th of the team!).
That, is a blatant lie. I have never, ever, worked with you.
Michael Martin Australia "I controlled my laughter and simple said "No,I am very busy,so I can't write any code for you". The moment they heard this all the smiling face turned into a sad looking face and one of them farted. So I had to leave the place as soon as possible." - Mr.Prakash One Fine Saturday. 24/04/2004
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den2k88 wrote:
Skill can be learned, personality cannot
I disagree, personality, I believe can also be learnt. The thing is very few people ever try, it is frustrating for sure but it can be done. Having said that while personality can be learned, nature does not change. So even if somebody manages to learn "personality" they would constantly be in conflict with their nature. Resulting in constant frustration.
Abbas A. Ali wrote:
while personality can be learned, nature does not change
An interesting "innate determinism" view that does not take into consideration the roles people play in different contexts, and their ability to learn new behaviors.
«One day it will have to be officially admitted that what we have christened reality is an even greater illusion than the world of dreams.» Salvador Dali
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Abbas A. Ali wrote:
while personality can be learned, nature does not change
An interesting "innate determinism" view that does not take into consideration the roles people play in different contexts, and their ability to learn new behaviors.
«One day it will have to be officially admitted that what we have christened reality is an even greater illusion than the world of dreams.» Salvador Dali
As I said earlier, I agree, new behaviors can be learnt. But they are contradicting to your nature, just the mere effort to act on them causes you to be at odds with your nature, the only way: you would have to suppress your nature for a long time (very difficult) or you run the risk of exploding. I hope you don't think the people who feel better when they've learned and acted on this new behavior are the same with who don't. Just this feeling suggests this new-found behavior to be your nature which you never got in touch with before.
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As I said earlier, I agree, new behaviors can be learnt. But they are contradicting to your nature, just the mere effort to act on them causes you to be at odds with your nature, the only way: you would have to suppress your nature for a long time (very difficult) or you run the risk of exploding. I hope you don't think the people who feel better when they've learned and acted on this new behavior are the same with who don't. Just this feeling suggests this new-found behavior to be your nature which you never got in touch with before.
Speaking as a former licensed psychotherapist, and Board Certified Member of the American Society of Group Psychotherapy and Psychodrama, I completely disagree with your view on "human nature," and the implication that cognitive dissonance and psychological discomfort are inevitable outcomes of learning new roles, and behaviors. In my opinion short-term Cognitive Behavioral therapy (CBT) is often effective for helping people who have such "rigidly defended" points-of-view, and are often suffering depression, and frustration, at being stuck in old habits, and stereotyped patterns of behavior. The great Kabir wrote: "Rahi gulzar to phool khilenge" ("where there is a garden, the flowers will come"); timelessly good advice ... but, sometimes we need some help to get started clearing the weeds. :) cheers, Bill
«One day it will have to be officially admitted that what we have christened reality is an even greater illusion than the world of dreams.» Salvador Dali
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Speaking as a former licensed psychotherapist, and Board Certified Member of the American Society of Group Psychotherapy and Psychodrama, I completely disagree with your view on "human nature," and the implication that cognitive dissonance and psychological discomfort are inevitable outcomes of learning new roles, and behaviors. In my opinion short-term Cognitive Behavioral therapy (CBT) is often effective for helping people who have such "rigidly defended" points-of-view, and are often suffering depression, and frustration, at being stuck in old habits, and stereotyped patterns of behavior. The great Kabir wrote: "Rahi gulzar to phool khilenge" ("where there is a garden, the flowers will come"); timelessly good advice ... but, sometimes we need some help to get started clearing the weeds. :) cheers, Bill
«One day it will have to be officially admitted that what we have christened reality is an even greater illusion than the world of dreams.» Salvador Dali
BillWoodruff wrote:
In my opinion short-term Cognitive Behavioral therapy (CBT) is often effective for helping people who have such "rigidly defended" points-of-view, and are often suffering depression, and frustration, at being stuck in old habits, and stereotyped patterns of behavior.
Could that be a smirk I'm detecting? :laugh:
BillWoodruff wrote:
Speaking as a former licensed psychotherapist, and Board Certified Member of the American Society of Group Psychotherapy and Psychodrama
You must know the field well. I know better than to cross paths with psychotherapist! :)
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Speaking as a former licensed psychotherapist, and Board Certified Member of the American Society of Group Psychotherapy and Psychodrama, I completely disagree with your view on "human nature," and the implication that cognitive dissonance and psychological discomfort are inevitable outcomes of learning new roles, and behaviors. In my opinion short-term Cognitive Behavioral therapy (CBT) is often effective for helping people who have such "rigidly defended" points-of-view, and are often suffering depression, and frustration, at being stuck in old habits, and stereotyped patterns of behavior. The great Kabir wrote: "Rahi gulzar to phool khilenge" ("where there is a garden, the flowers will come"); timelessly good advice ... but, sometimes we need some help to get started clearing the weeds. :) cheers, Bill
«One day it will have to be officially admitted that what we have christened reality is an even greater illusion than the world of dreams.» Salvador Dali
That is beautifully said. The problem is not ones nature, but self esteem. Early in my career as a software developer, a coworker enlighten me to the fact the software genius that architected the whole system related his code to his genital size. It was only a few years ago when I was working with someone else of that nature and that person was going off on a rant about something I realized I suffered from the same problem a bit. I vowed to change where I get I sense of self and today I am a much better team player than I was 20 years ago. I didn’t ‘change my nature’, rather I cleared out the weeds so the flower can grow. It is hard, hard work, but anyone can do it if they want and have good folks to support and guide them.
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BillWoodruff wrote:
I hate that inevitable question about: "the time when you made a mistake ..." !
My standard reply to those questions is a variant of "Good Lord! Are we still asking that? Are the 1970s back? I knew I should have worn flares." Sometimes I say 1960's and tie-dye; depends on the ages of the interviewers.
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
I am just wondering, do you really say that? If so, how does it go over? I ask because what I have realized is that over the last two thousand year while technology has changed, our ability or lack thereof to communicate remains the same: very hard for some of us (myself included) to learn. Thus it seems this is a timeless question. What I find interesting is: in my case, what has changed with regards to the question is not the question itself, but how I answer it. I have a far more loving answer today at 48 than twenty years ago.
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Generally, the content of Fast Company essays leave me slightly nauseous, but, scattered among the bits of this one: [^] ... I am reminded of some real-world experiences I had back in the daze when I was more than just another cubicle-hamster in silicon valley.
Quote:
When it comes to nailing an interview, your personality may play a larger role than you think. According to a recent study conducted by TopInterview and Resume-Library, 70% of employers consider a candidate’s personality to be among the top three factors in deciding whether to extend a job offer. It’s substantially more important than education (18%) or appearance (7%). So, what personality traits will make or break your chances of landing the job? Employers reported that “overconfidence” was the most offensive. However, when asked which personality traits they find the most attractive, they rated “confidence” as the second-most important quality.
Seem a bit contradictory ? Over-confidence/arrogance: yep, seen that one cost a middle-level program manager candidate their chance at a very lucrative position. But, when someone has demonstrated, in their existing software achievements, very high skill levels ... how much does personality come into play ... once you rule out obvious deal-breakers like extreme behavior/conduct ? Of course, I speak of a time before Agile, Scrum: perhaps those "ideologies/religions" make interviewing, today, more focused on personality. ability to interact ? I hate that inevitable question about: "the time when you made a mistake ..." ! For marketers, I'd demand nothing less than perfect abilities to bs :omg:
«One day it will have to be officially admitted that what we have christened reality is an even greater illusion than the world of dreams.» Salvador Dali
It's a growing trend, I think. More companies seem to be looking for professionals who can communicate pleasantly, fluently and with self-confidence first, and do all the rest second, as everything else is more and more expected by-default. It's probably because of Agile and SCRUM. More meetings basically means we need better soft-skills, or meetings become a chore with struggling ego's and pointless debates about personal preferences. Here's a thought experiment: Imagine an enterprise meeting room with a product owner, a system architect, a back-end dev, a tester and a senior analyst talking about anything work related for an hour. Are you starting to feel nauseous yet? :laugh:
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BillWoodruff wrote:
In my opinion short-term Cognitive Behavioral therapy (CBT) is often effective for helping people who have such "rigidly defended" points-of-view, and are often suffering depression, and frustration, at being stuck in old habits, and stereotyped patterns of behavior.
Could that be a smirk I'm detecting? :laugh:
BillWoodruff wrote:
Speaking as a former licensed psychotherapist, and Board Certified Member of the American Society of Group Psychotherapy and Psychodrama
You must know the field well. I know better than to cross paths with psychotherapist! :)
Salaam, Abbas, no smirk intended; i'm just an old whale blowing his spout as he is about to beach himself. i am certain you are a healthy, happy, and productive, young man ! the one thing i try and never underestimate is the ability of individuals to grow and change; at the same time, healthy people can maintain a set of core values that are consistent, and that they/we struggle to defend as we encounter the inevitable speed-bumps on the path of life: loss, disease, hardship, bad luck, family difficulties, etc.etc. Gandhi-ji said: "I want the winds of all cultures to blow around my house, but, I don't want to be knocked over by any of them. Remember what Kabir, and Gandhi said, and forget what bill said :) cheers, bill
«One day it will have to be officially admitted that what we have christened reality is an even greater illusion than the world of dreams.» Salvador Dali
