Why, oh why, can't people agree on something so simple ...
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Time, as in GMT or UTC, is measured plus to the East and minus to the West. Supremely logical, since it fits the movement of solar midday. Navigators reckon longitude positive to the East, and negative to the West, Why? Well check out that damn' great big yellow star up there, and check it against your ship's chronometer. Works pretty well huh? Astronomy first started as a science as a service to navigators. In fact, some say that Homer's 'Iliad', where the warriors are entering their boats, that they represented the navigational stars of the Northern hemisphere, and by memorizing them in a poem, it would be easier to identify them when sailing the Mediterranean. Likewise, the second poem, 'The Odyssey' was a warning of various perils. (Bear in mind that Homer wrote down the poems about 500 years after their memorized recital.) Having said all that, would somebody please kindly tell me why astronomers insist that East is negative, and West is positive? OK, so it means that the Right Ascension increases with time to the West, but that is actually meaningless as the same thing would happen, but just with a minus sign before the number. :mad: A few centuries of analytical astronomy fighting five millennia of navigation by the Sun and stars - and the astronomers decide to do it differently! If you wonder why this rant, I have just wasted a couple of hours trying to track a serious bug - when it was just the wrong sign on the input. :-O :((
When dealing with other forms of power storage, energy flows from the higher (positive) potential to the lower. Examples are hydrological power, wind power, etc. etc. Only in electricity does the power flow from the negative to the positive. Why couldn't those damned natural philosophers (==scientists) have given the electron a positive sign? :mad:
Freedom is the freedom to say that two plus two make four. If that is granted, all else follows. -- 6079 Smith W.
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Time, as in GMT or UTC, is measured plus to the East and minus to the West. Supremely logical, since it fits the movement of solar midday. Navigators reckon longitude positive to the East, and negative to the West, Why? Well check out that damn' great big yellow star up there, and check it against your ship's chronometer. Works pretty well huh? Astronomy first started as a science as a service to navigators. In fact, some say that Homer's 'Iliad', where the warriors are entering their boats, that they represented the navigational stars of the Northern hemisphere, and by memorizing them in a poem, it would be easier to identify them when sailing the Mediterranean. Likewise, the second poem, 'The Odyssey' was a warning of various perils. (Bear in mind that Homer wrote down the poems about 500 years after their memorized recital.) Having said all that, would somebody please kindly tell me why astronomers insist that East is negative, and West is positive? OK, so it means that the Right Ascension increases with time to the West, but that is actually meaningless as the same thing would happen, but just with a minus sign before the number. :mad: A few centuries of analytical astronomy fighting five millennia of navigation by the Sun and stars - and the astronomers decide to do it differently! If you wonder why this rant, I have just wasted a couple of hours trying to track a serious bug - when it was just the wrong sign on the input. :-O :((
Oh, stop being so negative! ;)
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When dealing with other forms of power storage, energy flows from the higher (positive) potential to the lower. Examples are hydrological power, wind power, etc. etc. Only in electricity does the power flow from the negative to the positive. Why couldn't those damned natural philosophers (==scientists) have given the electron a positive sign? :mad:
Freedom is the freedom to say that two plus two make four. If that is granted, all else follows. -- 6079 Smith W.
Yeah! ..and why do Americans and Europeans* drive on the wrong side of the road? Everyone knows that driving on the left so that your strong right hand is holding the wheel when you change gear is much safer. ;P * "Europeans", obviously and quite rightly, does not include the British in this case.
- I would love to change the world, but they won’t give me the source code.
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Oh, stop being so negative! ;)
Latest Articles:
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When dealing with other forms of power storage, energy flows from the higher (positive) potential to the lower. Examples are hydrological power, wind power, etc. etc. Only in electricity does the power flow from the negative to the positive. Why couldn't those damned natural philosophers (==scientists) have given the electron a positive sign? :mad:
Freedom is the freedom to say that two plus two make four. If that is granted, all else follows. -- 6079 Smith W.
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Time, as in GMT or UTC, is measured plus to the East and minus to the West. Supremely logical, since it fits the movement of solar midday. Navigators reckon longitude positive to the East, and negative to the West, Why? Well check out that damn' great big yellow star up there, and check it against your ship's chronometer. Works pretty well huh? Astronomy first started as a science as a service to navigators. In fact, some say that Homer's 'Iliad', where the warriors are entering their boats, that they represented the navigational stars of the Northern hemisphere, and by memorizing them in a poem, it would be easier to identify them when sailing the Mediterranean. Likewise, the second poem, 'The Odyssey' was a warning of various perils. (Bear in mind that Homer wrote down the poems about 500 years after their memorized recital.) Having said all that, would somebody please kindly tell me why astronomers insist that East is negative, and West is positive? OK, so it means that the Right Ascension increases with time to the West, but that is actually meaningless as the same thing would happen, but just with a minus sign before the number. :mad: A few centuries of analytical astronomy fighting five millennia of navigation by the Sun and stars - and the astronomers decide to do it differently! If you wonder why this rant, I have just wasted a couple of hours trying to track a serious bug - when it was just the wrong sign on the input. :-O :((
Chris C-B wrote:
Having said all that, would somebody please kindly tell me why astronomers insist that East is negative, and West is positive?
I guess it's a matter of relative thinking. Are the stars moving above us or is the earth moving below the stars? I have a feeling the celestial coordinate system might be older than both chronographs and Galileo.
Wrong is evil and must be defeated. - Jeff Ello
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When dealing with other forms of power storage, energy flows from the higher (positive) potential to the lower. Examples are hydrological power, wind power, etc. etc. Only in electricity does the power flow from the negative to the positive. Why couldn't those damned natural philosophers (==scientists) have given the electron a positive sign? :mad:
Freedom is the freedom to say that two plus two make four. If that is granted, all else follows. -- 6079 Smith W.
Daniel Pfeffer wrote:
Only in electricity does the power flow from the negative to the positive.
Pedantic hat on. Actually wrong, electrics/electronics recognizes positive (vs ground) as the "power source." Directional indicators point arrows from positive, one-way components (diodes and up) show the arrow as working working from or against the positive energy depending what it's supposed to do.... So power is recognized as positive to negative or zero - electronics and electricity deals with charge (positive values indicate positive charge.) The actual direction that the charge propagates*, that s by way of loosely bonded electrons, is rarely if ever a consideration in electronics/electrical applications. All they know is the + gets eaten. Oh, while being pedantic power doesn't flow, it propagates* (otherwise electricity would be really slow).
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Time, as in GMT or UTC, is measured plus to the East and minus to the West. Supremely logical, since it fits the movement of solar midday. Navigators reckon longitude positive to the East, and negative to the West, Why? Well check out that damn' great big yellow star up there, and check it against your ship's chronometer. Works pretty well huh? Astronomy first started as a science as a service to navigators. In fact, some say that Homer's 'Iliad', where the warriors are entering their boats, that they represented the navigational stars of the Northern hemisphere, and by memorizing them in a poem, it would be easier to identify them when sailing the Mediterranean. Likewise, the second poem, 'The Odyssey' was a warning of various perils. (Bear in mind that Homer wrote down the poems about 500 years after their memorized recital.) Having said all that, would somebody please kindly tell me why astronomers insist that East is negative, and West is positive? OK, so it means that the Right Ascension increases with time to the West, but that is actually meaningless as the same thing would happen, but just with a minus sign before the number. :mad: A few centuries of analytical astronomy fighting five millennia of navigation by the Sun and stars - and the astronomers decide to do it differently! If you wonder why this rant, I have just wasted a couple of hours trying to track a serious bug - when it was just the wrong sign on the input. :-O :((
It is all about our nature. We try to find something more difficult, instead of searching for something simp[le. It may sound weird, but that it what it is, even when we want to entertain ourselves we imagine a lot of activities rather than playing roulette online real money although it is much easier and much more pleasant. Moreover, you can get some profit from it.
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Yeah! ..and why do Americans and Europeans* drive on the wrong side of the road? Everyone knows that driving on the left so that your strong right hand is holding the wheel when you change gear is much safer. ;P * "Europeans", obviously and quite rightly, does not include the British in this case.
- I would love to change the world, but they won’t give me the source code.
Yes , and why had all those good Englishmen have to fall asleep on the leftmost lane of a four lane highway with only moderate traffic and all speed limits lifted? And, as far as I know, that highway is not in England.
I have lived with several Zen masters - all of them were cats. His last invention was an evil Lasagna. It didn't kill anyone, and it actually tasted pretty good.
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Time, as in GMT or UTC, is measured plus to the East and minus to the West. Supremely logical, since it fits the movement of solar midday. Navigators reckon longitude positive to the East, and negative to the West, Why? Well check out that damn' great big yellow star up there, and check it against your ship's chronometer. Works pretty well huh? Astronomy first started as a science as a service to navigators. In fact, some say that Homer's 'Iliad', where the warriors are entering their boats, that they represented the navigational stars of the Northern hemisphere, and by memorizing them in a poem, it would be easier to identify them when sailing the Mediterranean. Likewise, the second poem, 'The Odyssey' was a warning of various perils. (Bear in mind that Homer wrote down the poems about 500 years after their memorized recital.) Having said all that, would somebody please kindly tell me why astronomers insist that East is negative, and West is positive? OK, so it means that the Right Ascension increases with time to the West, but that is actually meaningless as the same thing would happen, but just with a minus sign before the number. :mad: A few centuries of analytical astronomy fighting five millennia of navigation by the Sun and stars - and the astronomers decide to do it differently! If you wonder why this rant, I have just wasted a couple of hours trying to track a serious bug - when it was just the wrong sign on the input. :-O :((
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Chris C-B wrote:
Having said all that, would somebody please kindly tell me why astronomers insist that East is negative, and West is positive?
I guess it's a matter of relative thinking. Are the stars moving above us or is the earth moving below the stars? I have a feeling the celestial coordinate system might be older than both chronographs and Galileo.
Wrong is evil and must be defeated. - Jeff Ello
From a navigator's point of view, the stars are anchored to a non-existent point in the sky called the first point of Aries (apart from their proper motion). It is accepted that the earth moves relative to that, for a geocentric position, and then the attitude of the earth is calculated to obtain a topocentric position. All these calculations are related to time - Right Ascension is measured in HH:MM:SS.ss - where East positive rules. What the astronomers do to get it so wrong, I have no idea. :rolleyes:
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It is all about our nature. We try to find something more difficult, instead of searching for something simp[le. It may sound weird, but that it what it is, even when we want to entertain ourselves we imagine a lot of activities rather than playing roulette online real money although it is much easier and much more pleasant. Moreover, you can get some profit from it.
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Yes , and why had all those good Englishmen have to fall asleep on the leftmost lane of a four lane highway with only moderate traffic and all speed limits lifted? And, as far as I know, that highway is not in England.
I have lived with several Zen masters - all of them were cats. His last invention was an evil Lasagna. It didn't kill anyone, and it actually tasted pretty good.
I remember the good old days doing 200 kph down that same highway (not in England) and putting my left indicator on to move the police car in front of me out of the way. They moved into a goodly gap in the right lane, I went past, they moved back. The joys of driving on a two-lane highway with no speed limits when everyone knows what they are doing - no brake lights were shown during this operation! :cool: Those sleepy Englishmen in the left were obviously American tourists driving as they normally do in the US where they have no concept of three digit speeds (mph or kph for that matter). ;P
- I would love to change the world, but they won’t give me the source code.
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Right on! It wasn't broke for five millennia, so they fixed it until it was broke! :laugh:
Spam, spam, spam, eggs, and spam!
Sent from my Amstrad PC 1640 Never throw anything away, Griff Bad command or file name. Bad, bad command! Sit! Stay! Staaaay... AntiTwitter: @DalekDave is now a follower!
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If I remember correctly (which is doubtful) from my Navigation/Nautical Astronomy lectures of almost 50 years ago. I think it is because the celestial sphere, which comprises all objects in "the sky", moves relative to a static earth.
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I remember the good old days doing 200 kph down that same highway (not in England) and putting my left indicator on to move the police car in front of me out of the way. They moved into a goodly gap in the right lane, I went past, they moved back. The joys of driving on a two-lane highway with no speed limits when everyone knows what they are doing - no brake lights were shown during this operation! :cool: Those sleepy Englishmen in the left were obviously American tourists driving as they normally do in the US where they have no concept of three digit speeds (mph or kph for that matter). ;P
- I would love to change the world, but they won’t give me the source code.
Why can't they just stay in their beds?
I have lived with several Zen masters - all of them were cats. His last invention was an evil Lasagna. It didn't kill anyone, and it actually tasted pretty good.
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Yeah, that's what Ptolemy thought. It's also what Galileo got imprisoned for disagreeing with, and what Giordano Bruno got burnt alive for denying. Guess what? Ptolemy was effing wrong! :laugh: Us navigators know better. :-\
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Time, as in GMT or UTC, is measured plus to the East and minus to the West. Supremely logical, since it fits the movement of solar midday. Navigators reckon longitude positive to the East, and negative to the West, Why? Well check out that damn' great big yellow star up there, and check it against your ship's chronometer. Works pretty well huh? Astronomy first started as a science as a service to navigators. In fact, some say that Homer's 'Iliad', where the warriors are entering their boats, that they represented the navigational stars of the Northern hemisphere, and by memorizing them in a poem, it would be easier to identify them when sailing the Mediterranean. Likewise, the second poem, 'The Odyssey' was a warning of various perils. (Bear in mind that Homer wrote down the poems about 500 years after their memorized recital.) Having said all that, would somebody please kindly tell me why astronomers insist that East is negative, and West is positive? OK, so it means that the Right Ascension increases with time to the West, but that is actually meaningless as the same thing would happen, but just with a minus sign before the number. :mad: A few centuries of analytical astronomy fighting five millennia of navigation by the Sun and stars - and the astronomers decide to do it differently! If you wonder why this rant, I have just wasted a couple of hours trying to track a serious bug - when it was just the wrong sign on the input. :-O :((
Astronomy is one of those fields with quite a lot of historical crust. I remember teaching in a foster school reading through the kids' physics books and the one or two that had astronomy in them, made me wonder WTF this stuff isn't expressed in simpler terms/coordinate systems which would totally be possible.
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Time, as in GMT or UTC, is measured plus to the East and minus to the West. Supremely logical, since it fits the movement of solar midday. Navigators reckon longitude positive to the East, and negative to the West, Why? Well check out that damn' great big yellow star up there, and check it against your ship's chronometer. Works pretty well huh? Astronomy first started as a science as a service to navigators. In fact, some say that Homer's 'Iliad', where the warriors are entering their boats, that they represented the navigational stars of the Northern hemisphere, and by memorizing them in a poem, it would be easier to identify them when sailing the Mediterranean. Likewise, the second poem, 'The Odyssey' was a warning of various perils. (Bear in mind that Homer wrote down the poems about 500 years after their memorized recital.) Having said all that, would somebody please kindly tell me why astronomers insist that East is negative, and West is positive? OK, so it means that the Right Ascension increases with time to the West, but that is actually meaningless as the same thing would happen, but just with a minus sign before the number. :mad: A few centuries of analytical astronomy fighting five millennia of navigation by the Sun and stars - and the astronomers decide to do it differently! If you wonder why this rant, I have just wasted a couple of hours trying to track a serious bug - when it was just the wrong sign on the input. :-O :((
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And what exactly is a gallon? And why am I drunken after a half gallon of beer in London but not in New York City?
