Do you agree with the following affirmations about the future of the programming?
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Code Project Forums Members, Again: Programming languages will end up being increasingly high-level until they become identical to natural language. You will eventually be able to write all your programs in English, Portuguese, or any other natural language, although you will also be able to mix that with instructions of the kind used in today's programming languages whenever you think that's more efficient or clearer. An intelligent compiler will ask for clarification whenever there's an ambiguity and may suggest improved wordings to resolve the issue. Writing a program will end up being a conversation with an intelligent machine which anyone could handle even if they know nothing about programming - it will be a collaboration with an intelligent system which is in itself an expert programmer. The error messages will be comments and questions just like the ones you'd get if you were co-writing a program with a human programmer. ("When you say "print the result of that part", do you mean this part [a section of the code is highlighted], and do you want it printed to the screen or the printer?") None of that will stop you putting in a line of C or any other programming language if you want to, but most of the work will simply be done in natural language, typically at a much higher level with the compiler working out how to carry out the tasks asked of it. The end user will also become a programmer, telling the machine how (s)he would prefer things to be done, and the machine will comply. That will rarely be done through anything other than natural language. AGI = artificial general intelligence A general intelligence is a more powerful kind of intelligence than a specialised intelligence which can only handle limited tasks. A general intelligence can learn to handle any task. Humans are the only things we currently know of which have general intelligence, and because that's natural intelligence, humans are NGI (natural general intelligence). NLP = natural language programming NLP can also be used to mean natural language processing though. This kind of NLP is part of what is needed to support the other kind of NLP because you can't have natural language programming if you can't process natural language. The AGI system will give you what you most likely want and will then adjust any aspects of it which you aren't happy with. It will not drag you through a menu of all possible options item by item, but will wait instead until you ask for the button to behave in a particular way. The aim is t
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Code Project Forums Members, Again: Programming languages will end up being increasingly high-level until they become identical to natural language. You will eventually be able to write all your programs in English, Portuguese, or any other natural language, although you will also be able to mix that with instructions of the kind used in today's programming languages whenever you think that's more efficient or clearer. An intelligent compiler will ask for clarification whenever there's an ambiguity and may suggest improved wordings to resolve the issue. Writing a program will end up being a conversation with an intelligent machine which anyone could handle even if they know nothing about programming - it will be a collaboration with an intelligent system which is in itself an expert programmer. The error messages will be comments and questions just like the ones you'd get if you were co-writing a program with a human programmer. ("When you say "print the result of that part", do you mean this part [a section of the code is highlighted], and do you want it printed to the screen or the printer?") None of that will stop you putting in a line of C or any other programming language if you want to, but most of the work will simply be done in natural language, typically at a much higher level with the compiler working out how to carry out the tasks asked of it. The end user will also become a programmer, telling the machine how (s)he would prefer things to be done, and the machine will comply. That will rarely be done through anything other than natural language. AGI = artificial general intelligence A general intelligence is a more powerful kind of intelligence than a specialised intelligence which can only handle limited tasks. A general intelligence can learn to handle any task. Humans are the only things we currently know of which have general intelligence, and because that's natural intelligence, humans are NGI (natural general intelligence). NLP = natural language programming NLP can also be used to mean natural language processing though. This kind of NLP is part of what is needed to support the other kind of NLP because you can't have natural language programming if you can't process natural language. The AGI system will give you what you most likely want and will then adjust any aspects of it which you aren't happy with. It will not drag you through a menu of all possible options item by item, but will wait instead until you ask for the button to behave in a particular way. The aim is t
Quantum Robin wrote:
Programming languages will end up being increasingly high-level until they become identical to natural language.
That's where I stopped reading; they won't. AI may learn your language and translate it to instructions, but natural language is too ambigious to be used as a programming language.
Quantum Robin wrote:
An intelligent compiler will ask for clarification whenever there's an ambiguity and may suggest improved wordings to resolve the issue.
I heard these predictions before, and they're unrealistic for the foreseeable future. It's an academic way to get funding, but not something to expect for the next version of .NET. It's vastly underestimating the complexity of possible wordings.
Bastard Programmer from Hell :suss: If you can't read my code, try converting it here[^] "If you just follow the bacon Eddy, wherever it leads you, then you won't have to think about politics." -- Some Bell.
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Quantum Robin wrote:
Programming languages will end up being increasingly high-level until they become identical to natural language.
That's where I stopped reading; they won't. AI may learn your language and translate it to instructions, but natural language is too ambigious to be used as a programming language.
Quantum Robin wrote:
An intelligent compiler will ask for clarification whenever there's an ambiguity and may suggest improved wordings to resolve the issue.
I heard these predictions before, and they're unrealistic for the foreseeable future. It's an academic way to get funding, but not something to expect for the next version of .NET. It's vastly underestimating the complexity of possible wordings.
Bastard Programmer from Hell :suss: If you can't read my code, try converting it here[^] "If you just follow the bacon Eddy, wherever it leads you, then you won't have to think about politics." -- Some Bell.
Eddy Vluggen wrote:
but not something to expect for the next version of .NET. in our lifetime
FTFY
M.D.V. ;) If something has a solution... Why do we have to worry about?. If it has no solution... For what reason do we have to worry about? Help me to understand what I'm saying, and I'll explain it better to you Rating helpful answers is nice, but saying thanks can be even nicer.
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Code Project Forums Members, Again: Programming languages will end up being increasingly high-level until they become identical to natural language. You will eventually be able to write all your programs in English, Portuguese, or any other natural language, although you will also be able to mix that with instructions of the kind used in today's programming languages whenever you think that's more efficient or clearer. An intelligent compiler will ask for clarification whenever there's an ambiguity and may suggest improved wordings to resolve the issue. Writing a program will end up being a conversation with an intelligent machine which anyone could handle even if they know nothing about programming - it will be a collaboration with an intelligent system which is in itself an expert programmer. The error messages will be comments and questions just like the ones you'd get if you were co-writing a program with a human programmer. ("When you say "print the result of that part", do you mean this part [a section of the code is highlighted], and do you want it printed to the screen or the printer?") None of that will stop you putting in a line of C or any other programming language if you want to, but most of the work will simply be done in natural language, typically at a much higher level with the compiler working out how to carry out the tasks asked of it. The end user will also become a programmer, telling the machine how (s)he would prefer things to be done, and the machine will comply. That will rarely be done through anything other than natural language. AGI = artificial general intelligence A general intelligence is a more powerful kind of intelligence than a specialised intelligence which can only handle limited tasks. A general intelligence can learn to handle any task. Humans are the only things we currently know of which have general intelligence, and because that's natural intelligence, humans are NGI (natural general intelligence). NLP = natural language programming NLP can also be used to mean natural language processing though. This kind of NLP is part of what is needed to support the other kind of NLP because you can't have natural language programming if you can't process natural language. The AGI system will give you what you most likely want and will then adjust any aspects of it which you aren't happy with. It will not drag you through a menu of all possible options item by item, but will wait instead until you ask for the button to behave in a particular way. The aim is t
Quantum Robin wrote:
Humans are the only things we you currently know of which have general intelligence
FTFY :)
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Code Project Forums Members, Again: Programming languages will end up being increasingly high-level until they become identical to natural language. You will eventually be able to write all your programs in English, Portuguese, or any other natural language, although you will also be able to mix that with instructions of the kind used in today's programming languages whenever you think that's more efficient or clearer. An intelligent compiler will ask for clarification whenever there's an ambiguity and may suggest improved wordings to resolve the issue. Writing a program will end up being a conversation with an intelligent machine which anyone could handle even if they know nothing about programming - it will be a collaboration with an intelligent system which is in itself an expert programmer. The error messages will be comments and questions just like the ones you'd get if you were co-writing a program with a human programmer. ("When you say "print the result of that part", do you mean this part [a section of the code is highlighted], and do you want it printed to the screen or the printer?") None of that will stop you putting in a line of C or any other programming language if you want to, but most of the work will simply be done in natural language, typically at a much higher level with the compiler working out how to carry out the tasks asked of it. The end user will also become a programmer, telling the machine how (s)he would prefer things to be done, and the machine will comply. That will rarely be done through anything other than natural language. AGI = artificial general intelligence A general intelligence is a more powerful kind of intelligence than a specialised intelligence which can only handle limited tasks. A general intelligence can learn to handle any task. Humans are the only things we currently know of which have general intelligence, and because that's natural intelligence, humans are NGI (natural general intelligence). NLP = natural language programming NLP can also be used to mean natural language processing though. This kind of NLP is part of what is needed to support the other kind of NLP because you can't have natural language programming if you can't process natural language. The AGI system will give you what you most likely want and will then adjust any aspects of it which you aren't happy with. It will not drag you through a menu of all possible options item by item, but will wait instead until you ask for the button to behave in a particular way. The aim is t
I first met programming as a teenager in the mid-1970s. What fascinated me - and eventually lead me to a master degree in programming - was not program language syntax or indentation rules. I was fascinated by systematic approach, the problem analysis, the deep understanding of the problem solution required before you sit down and code it in some programming language. So I hate this "agile" approach: "Let's start with 'int main(int argc, char** argv){}'. There... We are on our way! Could you now try to describe your problem, and we will write it down between the braces?" You must thoroughly understand both the problem and the solution, in "problem space", not in "coding space", to create a robust, working solution. You cannot just throw some vague, fuzzy stuff into a processsor (compiler, interpreter), and Voila! Problem solved! Anything that appears as automagic is, by definition, a poor, incomplete solution. Of course we use high level tools that takes care of individual tasks. But when using a tool, whether you see it as a library, an algorith, an API or whatever: Always make sure that you understand how it works, and why it is doing what it is doing, on at least one level below the one you are working on. And then it really isn't that important what the programming language looks like. --- Deep down in my large piles of old xerox copies is an old presentation of the COBOL 60 standard, proclaiming that thanks to this language, programming can now be done by anybody. No special education or training is required; you just state in plain English what you want the computer to do. They were right, sort of ... if you know what to ask the computer to do. Over the years, I have been shocked (so many times that I am no more shocked) by how poorly most people, in all sorts of professions, understand what they are doing, and why. We drink white wine with fish, red wine with meat, just because that's what we do. We drive on the right side of the road, but why - the British do not? We think the Beatles were the most clever rock group ever, but why do we think so? You can even as a composer why he composes his music that way, he rarely knows. It is great that the IP protocol suite won over the OSI suite in the 1990s, but what makes it a better choice? I have been in a few projects aiming at making people understand what they are doing. One primary example: We made a map of the total information flow in the city administration (about 200,000 inhabitants),
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Code Project Forums Members, Again: Programming languages will end up being increasingly high-level until they become identical to natural language. You will eventually be able to write all your programs in English, Portuguese, or any other natural language, although you will also be able to mix that with instructions of the kind used in today's programming languages whenever you think that's more efficient or clearer. An intelligent compiler will ask for clarification whenever there's an ambiguity and may suggest improved wordings to resolve the issue. Writing a program will end up being a conversation with an intelligent machine which anyone could handle even if they know nothing about programming - it will be a collaboration with an intelligent system which is in itself an expert programmer. The error messages will be comments and questions just like the ones you'd get if you were co-writing a program with a human programmer. ("When you say "print the result of that part", do you mean this part [a section of the code is highlighted], and do you want it printed to the screen or the printer?") None of that will stop you putting in a line of C or any other programming language if you want to, but most of the work will simply be done in natural language, typically at a much higher level with the compiler working out how to carry out the tasks asked of it. The end user will also become a programmer, telling the machine how (s)he would prefer things to be done, and the machine will comply. That will rarely be done through anything other than natural language. AGI = artificial general intelligence A general intelligence is a more powerful kind of intelligence than a specialised intelligence which can only handle limited tasks. A general intelligence can learn to handle any task. Humans are the only things we currently know of which have general intelligence, and because that's natural intelligence, humans are NGI (natural general intelligence). NLP = natural language programming NLP can also be used to mean natural language processing though. This kind of NLP is part of what is needed to support the other kind of NLP because you can't have natural language programming if you can't process natural language. The AGI system will give you what you most likely want and will then adjust any aspects of it which you aren't happy with. It will not drag you through a menu of all possible options item by item, but will wait instead until you ask for the button to behave in a particular way. The aim is t
With regards to having an AI system you can describe your requirements to and it writes the code for you. I agree, that is a very obvious future that we will eventually see. We arguably already have the basics of it with "project templates". We "say" what we want, and the template makes the code appear. Over time this will hopefully get better and better to eventually what you describe. With regards to having natural language programming, well I am not sure that will happen. Not only because of the insane complexity of it, but more importantly... WHY? Why do we need a language that we type like we would talk to another person? If we are being hopeful, the future will be that programmers get 'paired up' with an AI system that makes their job easier. If we are being realistic, the future will be that programmers get REPLACED by AI systems... just like what is already happening in other industries.
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With regards to having an AI system you can describe your requirements to and it writes the code for you. I agree, that is a very obvious future that we will eventually see. We arguably already have the basics of it with "project templates". We "say" what we want, and the template makes the code appear. Over time this will hopefully get better and better to eventually what you describe. With regards to having natural language programming, well I am not sure that will happen. Not only because of the insane complexity of it, but more importantly... WHY? Why do we need a language that we type like we would talk to another person? If we are being hopeful, the future will be that programmers get 'paired up' with an AI system that makes their job easier. If we are being realistic, the future will be that programmers get REPLACED by AI systems... just like what is already happening in other industries.
musefan wrote:
If we are being realistic, the future will be that programmers get REPLACED by AI systems... just like what is already happening in other industries.
That will happen during a while at the first moments because some idiots in management positions will think we are not needed anymore. Until the AI starts to make errors or better said it starts to make obvious the errors of the management or the one writing the specs, because an AI is not able of interpretation in the way we have to do just because the other is a moron and doesn't even know what the real needs are.
M.D.V. ;) If something has a solution... Why do we have to worry about?. If it has no solution... For what reason do we have to worry about? Help me to understand what I'm saying, and I'll explain it better to you Rating helpful answers is nice, but saying thanks can be even nicer.
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musefan wrote:
If we are being realistic, the future will be that programmers get REPLACED by AI systems... just like what is already happening in other industries.
That will happen during a while at the first moments because some idiots in management positions will think we are not needed anymore. Until the AI starts to make errors or better said it starts to make obvious the errors of the management or the one writing the specs, because an AI is not able of interpretation in the way we have to do just because the other is a moron and doesn't even know what the real needs are.
M.D.V. ;) If something has a solution... Why do we have to worry about?. If it has no solution... For what reason do we have to worry about? Help me to understand what I'm saying, and I'll explain it better to you Rating helpful answers is nice, but saying thanks can be even nicer.
Even if that is true, you will only need say 1 "code fixer" programmer, instead of 4. So net loss is still there. Also, you assume those "managers" will be the same as they are now. They won't. The new "managers" will be better equipped to use the AI. They will know what they are doing, and how exactly to use the system. If they fail, they will be the ones replaced.
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Even if that is true, you will only need say 1 "code fixer" programmer, instead of 4. So net loss is still there. Also, you assume those "managers" will be the same as they are now. They won't. The new "managers" will be better equipped to use the AI. They will know what they are doing, and how exactly to use the system. If they fail, they will be the ones replaced.
musefan wrote:
The new "managers" will be better equipped to use the AI. They will know what they are doing, and how exactly to use the system. If they fail, they will be the ones replaced.
Just exactly as it is now, with the human resources :rolleyes: :-D
M.D.V. ;) If something has a solution... Why do we have to worry about?. If it has no solution... For what reason do we have to worry about? Help me to understand what I'm saying, and I'll explain it better to you Rating helpful answers is nice, but saying thanks can be even nicer.
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Code Project Forums Members, Again: Programming languages will end up being increasingly high-level until they become identical to natural language. You will eventually be able to write all your programs in English, Portuguese, or any other natural language, although you will also be able to mix that with instructions of the kind used in today's programming languages whenever you think that's more efficient or clearer. An intelligent compiler will ask for clarification whenever there's an ambiguity and may suggest improved wordings to resolve the issue. Writing a program will end up being a conversation with an intelligent machine which anyone could handle even if they know nothing about programming - it will be a collaboration with an intelligent system which is in itself an expert programmer. The error messages will be comments and questions just like the ones you'd get if you were co-writing a program with a human programmer. ("When you say "print the result of that part", do you mean this part [a section of the code is highlighted], and do you want it printed to the screen or the printer?") None of that will stop you putting in a line of C or any other programming language if you want to, but most of the work will simply be done in natural language, typically at a much higher level with the compiler working out how to carry out the tasks asked of it. The end user will also become a programmer, telling the machine how (s)he would prefer things to be done, and the machine will comply. That will rarely be done through anything other than natural language. AGI = artificial general intelligence A general intelligence is a more powerful kind of intelligence than a specialised intelligence which can only handle limited tasks. A general intelligence can learn to handle any task. Humans are the only things we currently know of which have general intelligence, and because that's natural intelligence, humans are NGI (natural general intelligence). NLP = natural language programming NLP can also be used to mean natural language processing though. This kind of NLP is part of what is needed to support the other kind of NLP because you can't have natural language programming if you can't process natural language. The AGI system will give you what you most likely want and will then adjust any aspects of it which you aren't happy with. It will not drag you through a menu of all possible options item by item, but will wait instead until you ask for the button to behave in a particular way. The aim is t
Why don't you just use the Force, wave your hand at the computer and say something like 'These are not the data rows you are looking for'? Even if you really have such an AI, which I seriously doubt will be any time soon, you expect it to be an expert for everything. When I just look at the customer for which I'm doing work right now, where every word has 20 meanings and every meaning is tacked onto at least 20 different words. You really must understand what they are doing, how they are doing it and what he is trying to tell you before you can write a single line of code. Bonus points for anticipating occasional changes of mind. Look how many silver bullets you want to combine into a single silver nuke: - "Universal" intelligence. I'm not so sure that such a thing really exists. - all knowing, perhaps even psychic, intimately familiar with everything that someone might ask and a professor for everything, including things we have not discovered yet. Don't add 'allmighty' to the list, or you might slowly get negative attention from the Old Man Himself. :-)
I have lived with several Zen masters - all of them were cats. His last invention was an evil Lasagna. It didn't kill anyone, and it actually tasted pretty good.
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Eddy Vluggen wrote:
but not something to expect for the next version of .NET. in our lifetime
FTFY
M.D.V. ;) If something has a solution... Why do we have to worry about?. If it has no solution... For what reason do we have to worry about? Help me to understand what I'm saying, and I'll explain it better to you Rating helpful answers is nice, but saying thanks can be even nicer.
Nelek wrote:
but not something to expect for the next version of .NET. in our lifetime in a million years
The only process that we know to have produced something that resembles 'universal intelligence' is evolution and that process takes its time because of its aimless nature.
I have lived with several Zen masters - all of them were cats. His last invention was an evil Lasagna. It didn't kill anyone, and it actually tasted pretty good.
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With regards to having an AI system you can describe your requirements to and it writes the code for you. I agree, that is a very obvious future that we will eventually see. We arguably already have the basics of it with "project templates". We "say" what we want, and the template makes the code appear. Over time this will hopefully get better and better to eventually what you describe. With regards to having natural language programming, well I am not sure that will happen. Not only because of the insane complexity of it, but more importantly... WHY? Why do we need a language that we type like we would talk to another person? If we are being hopeful, the future will be that programmers get 'paired up' with an AI system that makes their job easier. If we are being realistic, the future will be that programmers get REPLACED by AI systems... just like what is already happening in other industries.
musefan wrote:
If we are being realistic, the future will be that programmers get REPLACED by AI systems... just like what is already happening in other industries.
A very distant future, if ever. Mother nature needed a billion years to get to us, and we have no better or quicker alternative. We have tried to influence evolution for our purposes since we started breeding animals. Just look at some of the results.
I have lived with several Zen masters - all of them were cats. His last invention was an evil Lasagna. It didn't kill anyone, and it actually tasted pretty good.
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Nelek wrote:
but not something to expect for the next version of .NET. in our lifetime in a million years
The only process that we know to have produced something that resembles 'universal intelligence' is evolution and that process takes its time because of its aimless nature.
I have lived with several Zen masters - all of them were cats. His last invention was an evil Lasagna. It didn't kill anyone, and it actually tasted pretty good.
Then taking that premise as true... then it will take a some billion years... evolution is definitively not even done with its first prototype (us)... just look around you :sigh: :doh:
M.D.V. ;) If something has a solution... Why do we have to worry about?. If it has no solution... For what reason do we have to worry about? Help me to understand what I'm saying, and I'll explain it better to you Rating helpful answers is nice, but saying thanks can be even nicer.
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Then taking that premise as true... then it will take a some billion years... evolution is definitively not even done with its first prototype (us)... just look around you :sigh: :doh:
M.D.V. ;) If something has a solution... Why do we have to worry about?. If it has no solution... For what reason do we have to worry about? Help me to understand what I'm saying, and I'll explain it better to you Rating helpful answers is nice, but saying thanks can be even nicer.
I have been thinking that the whole time since I landed here. I could use a vacation, even on a hot world like in the nearby 40-Eridani-System.
I have lived with several Zen masters - all of them were cats. His last invention was an evil Lasagna. It didn't kill anyone, and it actually tasted pretty good.
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Code Project Forums Members, Again: Programming languages will end up being increasingly high-level until they become identical to natural language. You will eventually be able to write all your programs in English, Portuguese, or any other natural language, although you will also be able to mix that with instructions of the kind used in today's programming languages whenever you think that's more efficient or clearer. An intelligent compiler will ask for clarification whenever there's an ambiguity and may suggest improved wordings to resolve the issue. Writing a program will end up being a conversation with an intelligent machine which anyone could handle even if they know nothing about programming - it will be a collaboration with an intelligent system which is in itself an expert programmer. The error messages will be comments and questions just like the ones you'd get if you were co-writing a program with a human programmer. ("When you say "print the result of that part", do you mean this part [a section of the code is highlighted], and do you want it printed to the screen or the printer?") None of that will stop you putting in a line of C or any other programming language if you want to, but most of the work will simply be done in natural language, typically at a much higher level with the compiler working out how to carry out the tasks asked of it. The end user will also become a programmer, telling the machine how (s)he would prefer things to be done, and the machine will comply. That will rarely be done through anything other than natural language. AGI = artificial general intelligence A general intelligence is a more powerful kind of intelligence than a specialised intelligence which can only handle limited tasks. A general intelligence can learn to handle any task. Humans are the only things we currently know of which have general intelligence, and because that's natural intelligence, humans are NGI (natural general intelligence). NLP = natural language programming NLP can also be used to mean natural language processing though. This kind of NLP is part of what is needed to support the other kind of NLP because you can't have natural language programming if you can't process natural language. The AGI system will give you what you most likely want and will then adjust any aspects of it which you aren't happy with. It will not drag you through a menu of all possible options item by item, but will wait instead until you ask for the button to behave in a particular way. The aim is t