Science without scruples
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Harvard chemistry chief’s arrest over China links shocks researchers[^] Did he not take an "Ethics 101" course?
I still haven't seen what they're charging him with. Your honour, the accused was offered a research job and accepted it! Lock! Him! Up! He went outside the bounds of a "policy", not broke a law, and the guy's a total geek, so he probably didn't have a clue about it, until it was too late for such a geek to effectively negotiate a remedy for the situation. Shirley you have to actually commit a crime, to be arrested and have your name plastered all over the news. If "taking a job in another country" is a crime, then I'm buggered all the way up the Yangtze.
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
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I still haven't seen what they're charging him with. Your honour, the accused was offered a research job and accepted it! Lock! Him! Up! He went outside the bounds of a "policy", not broke a law, and the guy's a total geek, so he probably didn't have a clue about it, until it was too late for such a geek to effectively negotiate a remedy for the situation. Shirley you have to actually commit a crime, to be arrested and have your name plastered all over the news. If "taking a job in another country" is a crime, then I'm buggered all the way up the Yangtze.
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
He's not been arrested for taking a job in another country, he's been arrested for lying about it:
Quote:
Lieber received hundreds of thousands of dollars from the Wuhan University of Technology (WUT) in China and agreed to lead a lab there — and that when US government agencies asked about his involvement with the programme he stated that he was not a participant and denied any formal affiliation with WUT.
Maybe they are trying to stop Coronavirus from affecting US researchers via email ... :laugh:
"I have no idea what I did, but I'm taking full credit for it." - ThisOldTony AntiTwitter: @DalekDave is now a follower!
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He's not been arrested for taking a job in another country, he's been arrested for lying about it:
Quote:
Lieber received hundreds of thousands of dollars from the Wuhan University of Technology (WUT) in China and agreed to lead a lab there — and that when US government agencies asked about his involvement with the programme he stated that he was not a participant and denied any formal affiliation with WUT.
Maybe they are trying to stop Coronavirus from affecting US researchers via email ... :laugh:
"I have no idea what I did, but I'm taking full credit for it." - ThisOldTony AntiTwitter: @DalekDave is now a follower!
Seriously? You're telling me that lying is a criminal offence in the US? Well, someone oughtta be worried. Shirley he made a perfect statement, and he did nothing wrong. The second part of that sentence may well be true. Accepting_a_job/a_fellowship/a_red_carpet_because_you're_a_genius != being_a_spy
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
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Seriously? You're telling me that lying is a criminal offence in the US? Well, someone oughtta be worried. Shirley he made a perfect statement, and he did nothing wrong. The second part of that sentence may well be true. Accepting_a_job/a_fellowship/a_red_carpet_because_you're_a_genius != being_a_spy
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
Under The Donald, it seems to be either a criminal offence or a required practice ... I just look on, and reach for the popcorn as the whole country seems to descend deeper into sitcom territory ... :laugh:
"I have no idea what I did, but I'm taking full credit for it." - ThisOldTony AntiTwitter: @DalekDave is now a follower!
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Indeed, I have worked in genetics and medical data analysis and it certainly gave me a more realistic sense of what happens when science is commerialised.
“That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence.”
― Christopher Hitchens
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I still haven't seen what they're charging him with. Your honour, the accused was offered a research job and accepted it! Lock! Him! Up! He went outside the bounds of a "policy", not broke a law, and the guy's a total geek, so he probably didn't have a clue about it, until it was too late for such a geek to effectively negotiate a remedy for the situation. Shirley you have to actually commit a crime, to be arrested and have your name plastered all over the news. If "taking a job in another country" is a crime, then I'm buggered all the way up the Yangtze.
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
My reading of this is that it is to do with potential conflicts of interest. The US is very much in competition with China and there could be conflicts of interest in his work which is why he may have needed to declare his work with China.
“That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence.”
― Christopher Hitchens
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My reading of this is that it is to do with potential conflicts of interest. The US is very much in competition with China and there could be conflicts of interest in his work which is why he may have needed to declare his work with China.
“That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence.”
― Christopher Hitchens
But arresting the guy, and probably putting the mockers on his Nobel prize?
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
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Under The Donald, it seems to be either a criminal offence or a required practice ... I just look on, and reach for the popcorn as the whole country seems to descend deeper into sitcom territory ... :laugh:
"I have no idea what I did, but I'm taking full credit for it." - ThisOldTony AntiTwitter: @DalekDave is now a follower!
Has nothing to do with the President.... total nonsense. The man was asked specific questions, and I suspect he answered in writing...
Charlie Gilley ...Stuck in a dysfunctional matrix from which I must escape... "Where liberty dwells, there is my country." B. Franklin, 1783 “They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.” BF, 1759
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Has nothing to do with the President.... total nonsense. The man was asked specific questions, and I suspect he answered in writing...
Charlie Gilley ...Stuck in a dysfunctional matrix from which I must escape... "Where liberty dwells, there is my country." B. Franklin, 1783 “They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.” BF, 1759
charlieg wrote:
I suspect he answered in writing
That was a mistake. Experts will tell you that you should hide documents, and avoid any scrutiny of reality. He should have phoned, and had employees take brief notes of what he said. That's the perfect solution.
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
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Seriously? You're telling me that lying is a criminal offence in the US? Well, someone oughtta be worried. Shirley he made a perfect statement, and he did nothing wrong. The second part of that sentence may well be true. Accepting_a_job/a_fellowship/a_red_carpet_because_you're_a_genius != being_a_spy
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
The article leaves out a lot of details. Here is his official charge listed as a violation of 18 U.S.C. § 1001(a)(2).[^]
Quote: 18 U.S.C. § 1001[^]
(a) Except as otherwise provided in this section, whoever, in any matter within the jurisdiction of the executive, legislative, or judicial branch of the Government of the United States, knowingly and willfully— [...] (2) makes any materially false, fictitious, or fraudulent statement or representation; or
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He's not in business. He's a prof at an Ivy League (=woke) university. It sounds like he lied to federal investigators, which is a crime in the USSA. It can be prosecuted even if verbal rather than written. Remember Martha Stewart and how everyone thinks she went to jail for insider trading? Nope. She went to jail for lying to federal investigators.
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Indeed, I have worked in genetics and medical data analysis and it certainly gave me a more realistic sense of what happens when science is commerialised.
“That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence.”
― Christopher Hitchens
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The article leaves out a lot of details. Here is his official charge listed as a violation of 18 U.S.C. § 1001(a)(2).[^]
Quote: 18 U.S.C. § 1001[^]
(a) Except as otherwise provided in this section, whoever, in any matter within the jurisdiction of the executive, legislative, or judicial branch of the Government of the United States, knowingly and willfully— [...] (2) makes any materially false, fictitious, or fraudulent statement or representation; or
Whoa, so a certain-coloured person who lives in a certain coloured house will be in real trouble, when he moves out of the certain-coloured house -- he'll probably have to take up permanent residence in a more drably-coloured house. No wonder he's trying to change the law to allow him to live their for life.
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
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As opposed to non-commercialized science (or other fields), where people get grants (usually paid by taxes) to play instead of doing useful things?
I'd prefer non-commercialized science funded by grants than those funded by companies who include clauses the bury any results they don't like. If we in the US did something similar to Australia where Government (i.e. tax) funded grants are licensed and used for more research. Instead of being used by private companies to earn obscene gobs of money, especially NIH funded ones for new medicines. Yes I'm straying dangerously close to old soapbox territory but my issues is with how the system allows the companies to exploit our tax dollars for their profit. Plus unless you think outside the box how else will you think of new, novel ideas and approaches to solving problems? If you follow the same path as everyone else you will get the same answer as everyone else. I'm choosing to ignore some of the more off the wall projects out there although the recent study about dealing with shaken beer cans[^] was quite informative. Thank you Denmark!
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I still haven't seen what they're charging him with. Your honour, the accused was offered a research job and accepted it! Lock! Him! Up! He went outside the bounds of a "policy", not broke a law, and the guy's a total geek, so he probably didn't have a clue about it, until it was too late for such a geek to effectively negotiate a remedy for the situation. Shirley you have to actually commit a crime, to be arrested and have your name plastered all over the news. If "taking a job in another country" is a crime, then I'm buggered all the way up the Yangtze.
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
It has to do with the rules around federal grant money. To get it you agree to a very strict set of rules. When doing dev work for a medical research foundation, I worked on a number of federal grant funded projects. In the agreement we signed it specified that over-reporting (lying about) time worked on the project could be considered a federal offense and result in jail time. You are also required to report if you own stock worth over a specific amount in any companies that might be affected from your work. Morals, ethics, and all that to try our best to keep research scientific and not influenced by biases. Most of it is best effort and operating under the assumption you are trying to be honest about it, slip-ups do occur, questions are asked, and if it turns out to be an honest mistake, no harm no foul but your next grant application might get extra scrutiny. As others have mentioned, he got nailed for lying to federal authorities about money he received from foreign governments in concern with research he was conducting paid for in part by federal grants. If he had just said "Yes! I received money from them and here is why," up front I suspect he would be in the clear.
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As opposed to non-commercialized science (or other fields), where people get grants (usually paid by taxes) to play instead of doing useful things?
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He's not in business. He's a prof at an Ivy League (=woke) university. It sounds like he lied to federal investigators, which is a crime in the USSA. It can be prosecuted even if verbal rather than written. Remember Martha Stewart and how everyone thinks she went to jail for insider trading? Nope. She went to jail for lying to federal investigators.
Greg Utas wrote:
He's not in business. He's a prof at an Ivy League (=woke) university.
I had to look up what woke means; didn't realize one injustice is more important than others. And whether or not he "is" in business, I can see a clear transaction, a payment in return for services.
Greg Utas wrote:
It sounds like he lied to federal investigators, which is a crime in the USSA.
That sounds weird; someone who broke the law (a criminal) is expected to be truthfull to police, because they're "federal"?
Bastard Programmer from Hell :suss: If you can't read my code, try converting it here[^] "If you just follow the bacon Eddy, wherever it leads you, then you won't have to think about politics." -- Some Bell.
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There is an assumption in your statement that nothing useful comes out of play, it's not an assumption that I hold.
“That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence.”
― Christopher Hitchens
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I'd prefer non-commercialized science funded by grants than those funded by companies who include clauses the bury any results they don't like. If we in the US did something similar to Australia where Government (i.e. tax) funded grants are licensed and used for more research. Instead of being used by private companies to earn obscene gobs of money, especially NIH funded ones for new medicines. Yes I'm straying dangerously close to old soapbox territory but my issues is with how the system allows the companies to exploit our tax dollars for their profit. Plus unless you think outside the box how else will you think of new, novel ideas and approaches to solving problems? If you follow the same path as everyone else you will get the same answer as everyone else. I'm choosing to ignore some of the more off the wall projects out there although the recent study about dealing with shaken beer cans[^] was quite informative. Thank you Denmark!
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It has to do with the rules around federal grant money. To get it you agree to a very strict set of rules. When doing dev work for a medical research foundation, I worked on a number of federal grant funded projects. In the agreement we signed it specified that over-reporting (lying about) time worked on the project could be considered a federal offense and result in jail time. You are also required to report if you own stock worth over a specific amount in any companies that might be affected from your work. Morals, ethics, and all that to try our best to keep research scientific and not influenced by biases. Most of it is best effort and operating under the assumption you are trying to be honest about it, slip-ups do occur, questions are asked, and if it turns out to be an honest mistake, no harm no foul but your next grant application might get extra scrutiny. As others have mentioned, he got nailed for lying to federal authorities about money he received from foreign governments in concern with research he was conducting paid for in part by federal grants. If he had just said "Yes! I received money from them and here is why," up front I suspect he would be in the clear.
Good info, cheers. The saddest part of this story is that they way this trivial "offence" (which is probably perfectly innocent, but he's just not good at dealing with confrontational situations) has been blown up, probably to score political points, his career will be pretty much in tatters, so he'll have little choice but to emigrate. Way to give China the best Western brains, witch-hunters! At least he'll have access to a state-of-the-art 5G network.
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
