Can we please stop being nerds and geeks and just pretend to be like a normal user?
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Markdown: To force a line return, place two empty spaces at the end of a line. It's enough to deal with * and ** and # and ## and ### and 1. and 1. and 1. and all the other stupid things about markdown, including the inconsistencies from site to site. Seriously BitBucket and the rest that think markdown is the cat's meow rather than... You can't just use one of the dozens of free, open source WYSIWYG editors out there? I know, I've ranted about this before. But it's our fault. We love this symbol soup. It's the geek version of the manager's buzzword bingo, and no better. And I don't love it. When I use an editor, I don't want to be in "ooh, look, shiny symbols that mean things" geek mode. I want to be in "user mode" -- Give me a decent editor!!!
Latest Articles:
Abusing Extension Methods, Null Continuation, and Null Coalescence Operatorssounds like a code project :-\
Real programmers use butterflies
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Marc Clifton wrote:
We love this symbol soup
Speak for yourself. I hate it. Edlin, vi, emacs. Stuff the lot of 'em, and give me Brief, or even notepad ... As you say, there are good free open source WYSiPMWYGUYGCIWCACH* editors out there. * What You See Is Pretty Much What You Get Unless You Get Cute In Which Case Anything Could Happen.
"I have no idea what I did, but I'm taking full credit for it." - ThisOldTony AntiTwitter: @DalekDave is now a follower!
Notepad++ :thumbsup:
Monday starts Diarrhea awareness week, runs until Friday! JaxCoder.com
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Markdown: To force a line return, place two empty spaces at the end of a line. It's enough to deal with * and ** and # and ## and ### and 1. and 1. and 1. and all the other stupid things about markdown, including the inconsistencies from site to site. Seriously BitBucket and the rest that think markdown is the cat's meow rather than... You can't just use one of the dozens of free, open source WYSIWYG editors out there? I know, I've ranted about this before. But it's our fault. We love this symbol soup. It's the geek version of the manager's buzzword bingo, and no better. And I don't love it. When I use an editor, I don't want to be in "ooh, look, shiny symbols that mean things" geek mode. I want to be in "user mode" -- Give me a decent editor!!!
Latest Articles:
Abusing Extension Methods, Null Continuation, and Null Coalescence Operators -
Markdown: To force a line return, place two empty spaces at the end of a line. It's enough to deal with * and ** and # and ## and ### and 1. and 1. and 1. and all the other stupid things about markdown, including the inconsistencies from site to site. Seriously BitBucket and the rest that think markdown is the cat's meow rather than... You can't just use one of the dozens of free, open source WYSIWYG editors out there? I know, I've ranted about this before. But it's our fault. We love this symbol soup. It's the geek version of the manager's buzzword bingo, and no better. And I don't love it. When I use an editor, I don't want to be in "ooh, look, shiny symbols that mean things" geek mode. I want to be in "user mode" -- Give me a decent editor!!!
Latest Articles:
Abusing Extension Methods, Null Continuation, and Null Coalescence OperatorsThe only symbol soup i can tolerate is regex and that had to grow on me.
Real programmers use butterflies
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The only symbol soup i can tolerate is regex and that had to grow on me.
Real programmers use butterflies
It only grew on me when I found Expresso[^] - it's free, and it examines and generates Regular expressions. It helps a lot, especially when you're doing some complex grouping.
"I have no idea what I did, but I'm taking full credit for it." - ThisOldTony AntiTwitter: @DalekDave is now a follower!
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Markdown: To force a line return, place two empty spaces at the end of a line. It's enough to deal with * and ** and # and ## and ### and 1. and 1. and 1. and all the other stupid things about markdown, including the inconsistencies from site to site. Seriously BitBucket and the rest that think markdown is the cat's meow rather than... You can't just use one of the dozens of free, open source WYSIWYG editors out there? I know, I've ranted about this before. But it's our fault. We love this symbol soup. It's the geek version of the manager's buzzword bingo, and no better. And I don't love it. When I use an editor, I don't want to be in "ooh, look, shiny symbols that mean things" geek mode. I want to be in "user mode" -- Give me a decent editor!!!
Latest Articles:
Abusing Extension Methods, Null Continuation, and Null Coalescence OperatorsBecause CRLF isn't easy enough. I blame the web.
Wrong is evil and must be defeated. - Jeff Ello
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What you are asking for, cannot easily be provided in a 7-bit-ASCII command shell. So in a Linux environment, it is DOA. WYSIWYG is for sissies. If you can't handle ed, you don't belong.
Member 7989122 wrote:
If you can't handle ed, you don't belong
still way too interactive, a chain of sed commands with well crafted (and carefully double escaped) regex is all you need for most tasks, for anything longer there's cat.
after many otherwise intelligent sounding suggestions that achieved nothing the nice folks at Technet said the only solution was to low level format my hard disk then reinstall my signature. Sadly, this still didn't fix the issue!
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The only symbol soup i can tolerate is regex and that had to grow on me.
Real programmers use butterflies
honey the codewitch wrote:
regex and that had to grow on me.
I can't imagine a worse fate. :-\
Freedom is the freedom to say that two plus two make four. If that is granted, all else follows. -- 6079 Smith W.
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Markdown: To force a line return, place two empty spaces at the end of a line. It's enough to deal with * and ** and # and ## and ### and 1. and 1. and 1. and all the other stupid things about markdown, including the inconsistencies from site to site. Seriously BitBucket and the rest that think markdown is the cat's meow rather than... You can't just use one of the dozens of free, open source WYSIWYG editors out there? I know, I've ranted about this before. But it's our fault. We love this symbol soup. It's the geek version of the manager's buzzword bingo, and no better. And I don't love it. When I use an editor, I don't want to be in "ooh, look, shiny symbols that mean things" geek mode. I want to be in "user mode" -- Give me a decent editor!!!
Latest Articles:
Abusing Extension Methods, Null Continuation, and Null Coalescence OperatorsIf only WYSIWYG editors were smart enough, I'd agree. But how many times have you used, say, bold in [insert WYSIWYG editor of choice], did some more editing, then as you start typing on the next line, it starts with bold because you know that internally, the bold end tag got messed up and now follows the linefeed character instead of appearing before it. That sort of thing. Bullet-point lists with various indentation levels is the other thing that gets me. Once the indentation starts getting messed up, it becomes practically impossible to fix. Copy a multi-level bullet-point list from WordPad, paste it into Word or OneNote, do some more editing, then bring it back in the original app. You're lucky if nothing got messed up. (Multiple) decades ago, WordPerfect got it right - it was a WYSIWYG editor, but gave you a "reveal codes" option. If the editor wasn't smart enough, you at least had the ability to go in and clean things up yourself and not have to pray it eventually understands what you meant all along.
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Marc Clifton wrote:
We love this symbol soup
Speak for yourself. I hate it. Edlin, vi, emacs. Stuff the lot of 'em, and give me Brief, or even notepad ... As you say, there are good free open source WYSiPMWYGUYGCIWCACH* editors out there. * What You See Is Pretty Much What You Get Unless You Get Cute In Which Case Anything Could Happen.
"I have no idea what I did, but I'm taking full credit for it." - ThisOldTony AntiTwitter: @DalekDave is now a follower!
Holy Moses, batman:cool: I haven't thought of Brief editor in decades. It was one of the best ones I can remember (at the time - early 80s). Now I want to find a current implementation.
A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, navigate a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects! - Lazarus Long
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honey the codewitch wrote:
regex and that had to grow on me.
I can't imagine a worse fate. :-\
Freedom is the freedom to say that two plus two make four. If that is granted, all else follows. -- 6079 Smith W.
haha but they're so bloody useful. A compact way of representing little state machines.
Real programmers use butterflies
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The only symbol soup i can tolerate is regex and that had to grow on me.
Real programmers use butterflies
honey the codewitch wrote:
The only symbol soup i can tolerate is regex and that had to grow on me.
Yeah, like the zombie climbing fungus[^]. It makes you keep climbing up and up and up to ridiculous heights of complexity until it explodes.
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
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If only WYSIWYG editors were smart enough, I'd agree. But how many times have you used, say, bold in [insert WYSIWYG editor of choice], did some more editing, then as you start typing on the next line, it starts with bold because you know that internally, the bold end tag got messed up and now follows the linefeed character instead of appearing before it. That sort of thing. Bullet-point lists with various indentation levels is the other thing that gets me. Once the indentation starts getting messed up, it becomes practically impossible to fix. Copy a multi-level bullet-point list from WordPad, paste it into Word or OneNote, do some more editing, then bring it back in the original app. You're lucky if nothing got messed up. (Multiple) decades ago, WordPerfect got it right - it was a WYSIWYG editor, but gave you a "reveal codes" option. If the editor wasn't smart enough, you at least had the ability to go in and clean things up yourself and not have to pray it eventually understands what you meant all along.
Never, ever, ever use bold, italic, etc. toolbar buttons to change styles. If you want a different style, create the style, don't use the writing-to-granny-once-a-year buttons. In dev terms: Create a class, rather than use VB-style methods. That goes for bullets, numbered lists, etc, too (and never make a single-level list style -- go multi-level, every time, so you can just indent for the next level) It might be more work to set it up, but it saves you a shipload of hassle, and is easy to save as or export to a template.
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(Multiple) decades ago, WordPerfect got it right - it was a WYSIWYG editor, but gave you a "reveal codes" option
I can't think of a word processor that doesn't have that. Reveal-formatting functions are usually more convenient, because they show you precisely what the formatting is, rather than just the codes (Shift + F1 in Word; menu options in more advanced WPs). Oh, and if you're using Word, make Normal.dot(x) read-only, unless you actually want to make changes to the template.
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
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Markdown: To force a line return, place two empty spaces at the end of a line. It's enough to deal with * and ** and # and ## and ### and 1. and 1. and 1. and all the other stupid things about markdown, including the inconsistencies from site to site. Seriously BitBucket and the rest that think markdown is the cat's meow rather than... You can't just use one of the dozens of free, open source WYSIWYG editors out there? I know, I've ranted about this before. But it's our fault. We love this symbol soup. It's the geek version of the manager's buzzword bingo, and no better. And I don't love it. When I use an editor, I don't want to be in "ooh, look, shiny symbols that mean things" geek mode. I want to be in "user mode" -- Give me a decent editor!!!
Latest Articles:
Abusing Extension Methods, Null Continuation, and Null Coalescence OperatorsI laugh at people who want to use markdown, XML, etc. for "light" use (i.e. for less than 100,000 chunks of single-source text that need to be inserted into dozens of different documents). PostScript is far and away the best and most usable mark-up language (markdown isn't really a real thing). I usually describe it as XML that hasn't had its balls chopped off -- but those in the know stopped using it 40 years ago, when WySiWyG editors came out, for the simple reason that mark-up languages make you spend half your time working on the infrastructure of the text, which is a HUGE distraction, when you're trying to work (imagine having to set each individual syntax-highlighting colour code for variable names, etc, when writing code, and you'll get an idea of how distracting it is). That said, TextArea fields are adequate for things like posting messages to message boards, and don't add half an hour to page-load times; and I only ever write text for web pages in a text editor (TextPad or NotePad++).
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
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Holy Moses, batman:cool: I haven't thought of Brief editor in decades. It was one of the best ones I can remember (at the time - early 80s). Now I want to find a current implementation.
A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, navigate a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects! - Lazarus Long
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Never, ever, ever use bold, italic, etc. toolbar buttons to change styles. If you want a different style, create the style, don't use the writing-to-granny-once-a-year buttons. In dev terms: Create a class, rather than use VB-style methods. That goes for bullets, numbered lists, etc, too (and never make a single-level list style -- go multi-level, every time, so you can just indent for the next level) It might be more work to set it up, but it saves you a shipload of hassle, and is easy to save as or export to a template.
Quote:
(Multiple) decades ago, WordPerfect got it right - it was a WYSIWYG editor, but gave you a "reveal codes" option
I can't think of a word processor that doesn't have that. Reveal-formatting functions are usually more convenient, because they show you precisely what the formatting is, rather than just the codes (Shift + F1 in Word; menu options in more advanced WPs). Oh, and if you're using Word, make Normal.dot(x) read-only, unless you actually want to make changes to the template.
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
Mark_Wallace wrote:
Never, ever, ever use bold, italic, etc. toolbar buttons to change styles. If you want a different style, create the style, don't use the writing-to-granny-once-a-year buttons.
Isn't that going against the very thing Marc is complaining about? If I want to put something in bold, I want a Bold button. Creating a style, as you're suggesting, is very much a developer thing and no mortal man on the street thinks in those terms or would even know what you're talking about. I'm talking about word processors and the like - not web page development tools...in which case I agree, this is what CSS is for.
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(Shift + F1 in Word; menu options in more advanced WPs).
That shows you what style is currently in effect; I want precise control over where those individual styles start and finish. I've done that right now in CP's editor with 'I' tags in angled brackets. That's the sort of control I'd like to see in a WYSIWYG, if it's not going to get everything just right, all the time.
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Notepad++ :thumbsup:
Monday starts Diarrhea awareness week, runs until Friday! JaxCoder.com
Been there . . . use that !
"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein
"If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010
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honey the codewitch wrote:
regex and that had to grow on me.
I can't imagine a worse fate. :-\
Freedom is the freedom to say that two plus two make four. If that is granted, all else follows. -- 6079 Smith W.
Daniel Pfeffer wrote:
I can't imagine a worse fate
An infestation of VB6 ? (Hope that didn't make you wet yourself in horror).
"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein
"If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010
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Mark_Wallace wrote:
Never, ever, ever use bold, italic, etc. toolbar buttons to change styles. If you want a different style, create the style, don't use the writing-to-granny-once-a-year buttons.
Isn't that going against the very thing Marc is complaining about? If I want to put something in bold, I want a Bold button. Creating a style, as you're suggesting, is very much a developer thing and no mortal man on the street thinks in those terms or would even know what you're talking about. I'm talking about word processors and the like - not web page development tools...in which case I agree, this is what CSS is for.
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(Shift + F1 in Word; menu options in more advanced WPs).
That shows you what style is currently in effect; I want precise control over where those individual styles start and finish. I've done that right now in CP's editor with 'I' tags in angled brackets. That's the sort of control I'd like to see in a WYSIWYG, if it's not going to get everything just right, all the time.
dandy72 wrote:
I want precise control over where those individual styles start and finish
If you use styles, rather than the blunderbuss toolbar buttons, you get that. If you have to insert tags, you not only make it harder to check the text for errors, but you make it more work, and have to keep distracting yourself from the content you're trying to write, just to insert the tags. Selecting the text to modify and clicking the required style in the Styles pane is the most efficient (and least distracting) method. If you find you're picking up unwanted paragraph tags and spaces in Word, turn off the smart paragraph selection and select whole words options, which are stupidly on by default. BTW, if you find that a style is going onto the next line in Word (which it shouldn't, if you select the text without picking up the paragraph character), just select the new line and hit Ctrl+Space.
dandy72 wrote:
Isn't that going against the very thing Marc is complaining about?
Your preference of having to set <I></I> tags is what Marc appears not to like.
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
-
Markdown: To force a line return, place two empty spaces at the end of a line. It's enough to deal with * and ** and # and ## and ### and 1. and 1. and 1. and all the other stupid things about markdown, including the inconsistencies from site to site. Seriously BitBucket and the rest that think markdown is the cat's meow rather than... You can't just use one of the dozens of free, open source WYSIWYG editors out there? I know, I've ranted about this before. But it's our fault. We love this symbol soup. It's the geek version of the manager's buzzword bingo, and no better. And I don't love it. When I use an editor, I don't want to be in "ooh, look, shiny symbols that mean things" geek mode. I want to be in "user mode" -- Give me a decent editor!!!
Latest Articles:
Abusing Extension Methods, Null Continuation, and Null Coalescence OperatorsCan it be harder than LaTeX (did I get the stylization right?)? I remember fighting with this thing for the sole reason of everybody else doing it and brackets, which permeate scientific writing like mold are a friggin' nightmare. The escaping rules for them are less consistent than escaping in C for no good reason.
