HDMI or USB/DAC?
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Joan M wrote:
PS: Using HDMI the sound card used is the one in your PC... which won't be great...
Ain't that the truth! See my last post above. My objective is to get a high quality signal into my pre-amp, from where on the sound is very high quality. The streaming source is currently the weakest link. Incidentally, my speakers are at the other end of the scale - six feet tall and 30 kg each!
After installing those KEF loudspeakers (connected to the USB port in my laptop) I started noticing the difference of FLAC audio files compared with the default Spotify quality. Now it's not the best moment to walk into one HI-FI shop, but I'm pretty sure once this passes away, you'll be able to check how different DAC sound in the same loudspeakers.
www.robotecnik.com[^] - robots, CNC and PLC programming
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Being a gentleman of ah ... how shall we say ... ah ... more mature years, I am 'social distancing' big time, i.e. staying home most of the time - so I signed up with Idagio, THE classical music streaming site. Currently I am taking the sound part of the HDMI stream and feeding it into my somewhat over-the-top HiFi system using RCA stereo connections. I have two different HDMI adaptors. The HDMI to RCA audio and PAL/SECAM vision has better sound quality than the HDMI to Audio 3.5mm jack and VGA, which, of course, gives a full 1080p picture, but has lower sound quality, probably due to being a cheaper bit of hardware. Because the old laptop I am using had multi-media aspirations, a lot of bass boost was put into the headphone socket, making it unusable for a direct connection. I am thinking about buying a USB input Digital to Analogue (DAC) device which will output to RCA to feed the HiFi. With my Adagio+ subscription, I get 320kbps/44.1 quality, but I am not sure of the USB2 capabilities - is it a maximum of 192 kbps as I have heard mentioned? If so, the whole thing is a bust. What I want is true CD quality - which I am paying for with Idagio+ - but not sure how to get it from the Win7 laptop I am using to the HiFi system without quality loss, which is currently apparent using the DAC built into the laptop. Knowing little about hardware, I would be very grateful for any guidance from the CP hive-mind.
can you run digital optical to your stereo input from your TVs output? That's the way I'd go. SPDIF. That way you keep it in digital, lossless form until it reaches the high quality DAC in your stereo system
Real programmers use butterflies
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Being a gentleman of ah ... how shall we say ... ah ... more mature years, I am 'social distancing' big time, i.e. staying home most of the time - so I signed up with Idagio, THE classical music streaming site. Currently I am taking the sound part of the HDMI stream and feeding it into my somewhat over-the-top HiFi system using RCA stereo connections. I have two different HDMI adaptors. The HDMI to RCA audio and PAL/SECAM vision has better sound quality than the HDMI to Audio 3.5mm jack and VGA, which, of course, gives a full 1080p picture, but has lower sound quality, probably due to being a cheaper bit of hardware. Because the old laptop I am using had multi-media aspirations, a lot of bass boost was put into the headphone socket, making it unusable for a direct connection. I am thinking about buying a USB input Digital to Analogue (DAC) device which will output to RCA to feed the HiFi. With my Adagio+ subscription, I get 320kbps/44.1 quality, but I am not sure of the USB2 capabilities - is it a maximum of 192 kbps as I have heard mentioned? If so, the whole thing is a bust. What I want is true CD quality - which I am paying for with Idagio+ - but not sure how to get it from the Win7 laptop I am using to the HiFi system without quality loss, which is currently apparent using the DAC built into the laptop. Knowing little about hardware, I would be very grateful for any guidance from the CP hive-mind.
I added a Sonos Port to stream to my older, but fairly nice, stereo. I enjoy the sound, but I’m not an audiophile. You can stream Idagio through it,plus a lot of other stuff.
"Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana."
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I can get the G6 out here, and it seems to have a slightly better spec than the V series equivalent, so I will probably give it a punt. I have a reasonably top-end Denon CD player, and it sounds very good. I also have the Otto Klemperer Beethoven Symphonies set on CD and vinyl, and the same recording is also available on Idagio. In terms of audio quality the CDs are slightly ahead of the vinyl. mainly because of the expanded dynamic range possible on CD, but the Idagio version is behind them both - hence my quest to improve performance of the streaming source.
LG G6, G7, G8, V20, V30, V40 and V50 all have the same sound chip. There shouldn't be any noticeable difference between them sound wise.
Wrong is evil and must be defeated. - Jeff Ello
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Joan M wrote:
PS: Using HDMI the sound card used is the one in your PC... which won't be great...
Ain't that the truth! See my last post above. My objective is to get a high quality signal into my pre-amp, from where on the sound is very high quality. The streaming source is currently the weakest link. Incidentally, my speakers are at the other end of the scale - six feet tall and 30 kg each!
Chris C-B wrote:
six feet tall and 30 kg each
That's not very heavy for so large speakers. My B&W XT8 are just 1.2m and weighs in at 25kg
Wrong is evil and must be defeated. - Jeff Ello
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LG G6, G7, G8, V20, V30, V40 and V50 all have the same sound chip. There shouldn't be any noticeable difference between them sound wise.
Wrong is evil and must be defeated. - Jeff Ello
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Chris C-B wrote:
six feet tall and 30 kg each
That's not very heavy for so large speakers. My B&W XT8 are just 1.2m and weighs in at 25kg
Wrong is evil and must be defeated. - Jeff Ello
Agreed, but the top 48" are ribbons - they are Carver speakers, old but still in perfect condition. Checking the manual they are actually a shade over 36kg. One of the things I particularly like about them is that with a low crossover frequency, the bass and treble power requirements are very well balanced, making them ideal for vertical bi-amping (one stereo amp for each channel, left and right)
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can you run digital optical to your stereo input from your TVs output? That's the way I'd go. SPDIF. That way you keep it in digital, lossless form until it reaches the high quality DAC in your stereo system
Real programmers use butterflies
The manual for the laptop says the 3.5mm headphone socket is "S/PDIF enabled" but I have no idea what that means, as it works just like an ordinary headphone socket, albeit loaded at the bass end. Any ideas? I hardly ever turn the TV on, so I would rather not factor that into the equation.
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Yes, that's why I'm recommending you to use an external DAC which will make your music sound sweet in your super loudspeakers. HDMI (connected directly yo your PC) would output a crappy sound compared with any proper DAC out there.
www.robotecnik.com[^] - robots, CNC and PLC programming
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After installing those KEF loudspeakers (connected to the USB port in my laptop) I started noticing the difference of FLAC audio files compared with the default Spotify quality. Now it's not the best moment to walk into one HI-FI shop, but I'm pretty sure once this passes away, you'll be able to check how different DAC sound in the same loudspeakers.
www.robotecnik.com[^] - robots, CNC and PLC programming
-
I added a Sonos Port to stream to my older, but fairly nice, stereo. I enjoy the sound, but I’m not an audiophile. You can stream Idagio through it,plus a lot of other stuff.
"Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana."
-
The manual for the laptop says the 3.5mm headphone socket is "S/PDIF enabled" but I have no idea what that means, as it works just like an ordinary headphone socket, albeit loaded at the bass end. Any ideas? I hardly ever turn the TV on, so I would rather not factor that into the equation.
It's a (usually fiber optic) based audio connection system. It means that jack can produce pure digital output for use with S/PDIF capable devices. Your stereo's amplifier should have a digital S/PDIF jack (it's almost a rectangle) that can take a fiber based cable. You'll need some sort of converter if you go that route but i strongly recommend that you do not. I recommend you continue to use your laptop's HDMI to your TV (if i understand your setup) but you should consider getting an S/PDIF cable going from your TV to your amp assuming your TV supports it (many do)
Real programmers use butterflies
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.. or, of course, go for Jörgen's suggestion, and use a phone with a top DAC in it. I certainly agree that the DAC in the laptop is not up to scratch.
If you use the phone, you will depend on the capability of the phone OS to output the audio through USB, the 3.5 audio jack will never be enough for what you want. And in case you decide to go Bluetooth or wifi way, you will have to get used to delays, unless you have APTX... but again that is not top notch quality. Disclaimer: I'm not by any means an audiophile... this is what the guy at the HI-FI shop explained me while buying my loudspeakers.
www.robotecnik.com[^] - robots, CNC and PLC programming
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Same as my problem - the difference between the 192k and full 320k FLAC on Idagio is just not distinct enough, and at times just not audible at all, hence my dilemma.
Of course, because the source of the audio is terrible... Whatever you decide you need something that process your files correctly and output the right signal to your loudspeakers. Let's be clear, my desktop loudspeakers are the best I found to be used as laptop loudspeakers around 400€, which is already expensive to hear the incoming mail sound... :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: but super cheap for HI-FI loudspeakers... but even that when I put music, it's wonderful. And you can listen at the same song in spotify free vs. FLAC and the difference is incredible.
www.robotecnik.com[^] - robots, CNC and PLC programming
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The manual for the laptop says the 3.5mm headphone socket is "S/PDIF enabled" but I have no idea what that means, as it works just like an ordinary headphone socket, albeit loaded at the bass end. Any ideas? I hardly ever turn the TV on, so I would rather not factor that into the equation.
S/PDIF, Sony/Philips digital interface, works equally well using a fibre or copper.
Wrong is evil and must be defeated. - Jeff Ello
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Great, thanks. I was actually looking at the screen resolution, which is better on the G7 of the options available locally.
It's also the best phone to use outdoors since the screen brightness goes all the way up to 1000 nits. (It's not RGB, it's RGBW)
Wrong is evil and must be defeated. - Jeff Ello
-
Agreed, but the top 48" are ribbons - they are Carver speakers, old but still in perfect condition. Checking the manual they are actually a shade over 36kg. One of the things I particularly like about them is that with a low crossover frequency, the bass and treble power requirements are very well balanced, making them ideal for vertical bi-amping (one stereo amp for each channel, left and right)
I have listened to a couple of Apogee fullrange with Krell monoblocks once. If they are anything near that I'm envying you a lot.
Wrong is evil and must be defeated. - Jeff Ello
-
Being a gentleman of ah ... how shall we say ... ah ... more mature years, I am 'social distancing' big time, i.e. staying home most of the time - so I signed up with Idagio, THE classical music streaming site. Currently I am taking the sound part of the HDMI stream and feeding it into my somewhat over-the-top HiFi system using RCA stereo connections. I have two different HDMI adaptors. The HDMI to RCA audio and PAL/SECAM vision has better sound quality than the HDMI to Audio 3.5mm jack and VGA, which, of course, gives a full 1080p picture, but has lower sound quality, probably due to being a cheaper bit of hardware. Because the old laptop I am using had multi-media aspirations, a lot of bass boost was put into the headphone socket, making it unusable for a direct connection. I am thinking about buying a USB input Digital to Analogue (DAC) device which will output to RCA to feed the HiFi. With my Adagio+ subscription, I get 320kbps/44.1 quality, but I am not sure of the USB2 capabilities - is it a maximum of 192 kbps as I have heard mentioned? If so, the whole thing is a bust. What I want is true CD quality - which I am paying for with Idagio+ - but not sure how to get it from the Win7 laptop I am using to the HiFi system without quality loss, which is currently apparent using the DAC built into the laptop. Knowing little about hardware, I would be very grateful for any guidance from the CP hive-mind.
Chris C-B wrote:
I am not sure of the USB2 capabilities - is it a maximum of 192 kbps as I have heard mentioned? If so, the whole thing is a bust.
I have a feeling that this entire thread is outside my domain, being more "listening to the sound" than "listening to the music". I am not qualified to discuss with Audiophiles. On the technical level: USB2 has a limit of 480 Megabits per second - fully sufficient for HD video, more than 2000 times the 192 kbps you have been hearing about. Certainly, noone should pretend that USB is free of protocol overhead, no capacity wasted in waiting and negotiations. An application level connection will never obtain an effective application end-to-end performance close to 480 Mbps. But for plain sound, you are orders of magnitude from the bandwith limits. USB is perfectly fine for your use.
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Thanks - another option to consider. I presume there is a Sonos device that can interface with the laptop?
Also can use hard wired network if your wifi is slow.
"Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana."
-
Being a gentleman of ah ... how shall we say ... ah ... more mature years, I am 'social distancing' big time, i.e. staying home most of the time - so I signed up with Idagio, THE classical music streaming site. Currently I am taking the sound part of the HDMI stream and feeding it into my somewhat over-the-top HiFi system using RCA stereo connections. I have two different HDMI adaptors. The HDMI to RCA audio and PAL/SECAM vision has better sound quality than the HDMI to Audio 3.5mm jack and VGA, which, of course, gives a full 1080p picture, but has lower sound quality, probably due to being a cheaper bit of hardware. Because the old laptop I am using had multi-media aspirations, a lot of bass boost was put into the headphone socket, making it unusable for a direct connection. I am thinking about buying a USB input Digital to Analogue (DAC) device which will output to RCA to feed the HiFi. With my Adagio+ subscription, I get 320kbps/44.1 quality, but I am not sure of the USB2 capabilities - is it a maximum of 192 kbps as I have heard mentioned? If so, the whole thing is a bust. What I want is true CD quality - which I am paying for with Idagio+ - but not sure how to get it from the Win7 laptop I am using to the HiFi system without quality loss, which is currently apparent using the DAC built into the laptop. Knowing little about hardware, I would be very grateful for any guidance from the CP hive-mind.
Chris C-B wrote:
What I want is true CD quality - which I am paying for with Idagio+ - but not sure how to get it from the Win7 laptop I am using to the HiFi system without quality loss, which is currently apparent using the DAC built into the laptop.
If the only input to your "HiFi" is RCA, I don't think you should worry too much about any conversion that might take place elsewhere. Or am I misunderstanding what you're trying to do? The way I read it, it's like someone who wants to put some video on VHS, but is worried about a 4K to 1080p conversion before sending the final thing over as an analog signal...?