I don't want to start a political discussion
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well, you can report me and I can get banned for good this time. :doh:
Nah ... sticks and stones, and all that! :-D
"I have no idea what I did, but I'm taking full credit for it." - ThisOldTony AntiTwitter: @DalekDave is now a follower!
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well, you can report me and I can get banned for good this time. :doh:
Anyway, how could I possibly be a politician? Ignoring that I have a spine, I answer questions! :laugh:
"I have no idea what I did, but I'm taking full credit for it." - ThisOldTony AntiTwitter: @DalekDave is now a follower!
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This is going to bring consequences (whether it is real or not). I am not wanting to start a political discussion and I hope you can behave and that it doesn't degenerate to soapbox level. If you can't avoid it, I will delete the whole thread. I decide to post it, because it is already circulating in the news of several countries and I have already seen it translated to 3 different languages. It is only a matter of time, that you get to this through other channels. BREAKING: Salvini Demands Answers – Does a 2015 Italian Documentary Prove the Coronavirus was created in a Chinese Lab? (WATCH) – RAIR[^] IMPORTANT NOTE: The video goes about A coronavirus, not about THE coronavirus. The problem is that it is so similar, that the polemic is exploding anyways. IMPORTANT NOTE 2: Only because they were investigating something similar doesn't mean they are guilty of this pandemia. I want to bring focus to the: "only because we can doesn't mean that we should" It is clear that many medical and technological advances are directly connected with dubvious experiments that ended right. But is it always worth the risks? We might do somethings to try to help, but at the end still be the cause of a big evil. ADDITION: I am not asking about "if they are involved", My question is more: "Do you agree with such experiments where we interfere that much with nature laws and that could potentially explode in our face and be a big evil?" (more in the line of 12 monkeys[^] or contagion[^]
M.D.V. ;) If something has a solution... Why do we have to worry about?. If it has no solution... For what reason do we have to worry about? Help me to understand what I'm saying, and I'll explain it better to you Rating helpful answers is nice, but saying thanks can be even nicer.
Nelek wrote:
I want to bring focus to the: "only because we can doesn't mean that we should"
Then someone else will.
Bastard Programmer from Hell :suss: If you can't read my code, try converting it here[^] "If you just follow the bacon Eddy, wherever it leads you, then you won't have to think about politics." -- Some Bell.
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Yep, and that's public television for which we pay a mandatory tax to sustain in order to eep it free of advertisements (which is not), free of political manipulation (which is not) and with quality content (again, it is not). The private tv is even worse, much much worse. And that's another problem: the "cultured" people tend to be biased to what they hear on Rai3...
GCS d--(d+) s-/++ a C++++ U+++ P- L+@ E-- W++ N+ o+ K- w+++ O? M-- V? PS+ PE- Y+ PGP t+ 5? X R+++ tv-- b+(+++) DI+++ D++ G e++ h--- r+++ y+++* Weapons extension: ma- k++ F+2 X
Although I definitely lean to the left, I have to agree that "public television" is far from neutral. It has pretty much been hijacked by the far left. On the other side, the biggest "News" network in the US, FoxNews, is in fact not a news station, except for a little bit now and then. It is a non-stop opinion platform - and as such, has no accountability for spreading misinformation. It is, after all, just their opinion. This has been going on long enough where, with entire generation(s) having been brought up as with this as their reality, they gladly swallow their own puke - it's what they want to hear so it must be true. They new all along! In various forms, opposing opinions are just labeled "fake news" with any number of variations on the name, but in all cases, making ignoring unpleasant truths that much easier. New and Information is now firmly in the Cult category. We vs They continues to become, ever more so, WE vs THEY.
"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein
"If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010
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This is going to bring consequences (whether it is real or not). I am not wanting to start a political discussion and I hope you can behave and that it doesn't degenerate to soapbox level. If you can't avoid it, I will delete the whole thread. I decide to post it, because it is already circulating in the news of several countries and I have already seen it translated to 3 different languages. It is only a matter of time, that you get to this through other channels. BREAKING: Salvini Demands Answers – Does a 2015 Italian Documentary Prove the Coronavirus was created in a Chinese Lab? (WATCH) – RAIR[^] IMPORTANT NOTE: The video goes about A coronavirus, not about THE coronavirus. The problem is that it is so similar, that the polemic is exploding anyways. IMPORTANT NOTE 2: Only because they were investigating something similar doesn't mean they are guilty of this pandemia. I want to bring focus to the: "only because we can doesn't mean that we should" It is clear that many medical and technological advances are directly connected with dubvious experiments that ended right. But is it always worth the risks? We might do somethings to try to help, but at the end still be the cause of a big evil. ADDITION: I am not asking about "if they are involved", My question is more: "Do you agree with such experiments where we interfere that much with nature laws and that could potentially explode in our face and be a big evil?" (more in the line of 12 monkeys[^] or contagion[^]
M.D.V. ;) If something has a solution... Why do we have to worry about?. If it has no solution... For what reason do we have to worry about? Help me to understand what I'm saying, and I'll explain it better to you Rating helpful answers is nice, but saying thanks can be even nicer.
There was a good discussion about this on the Skeptics' Guide to the Universe podcast, this week (SGU episode 768[^]). They referred to this article (COVID-19 coronavirus epidemic has a natural origin[^]) It cited several reasons why the virus was not man-made
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There was a good discussion about this on the Skeptics' Guide to the Universe podcast, this week (SGU episode 768[^]). They referred to this article (COVID-19 coronavirus epidemic has a natural origin[^]) It cited several reasons why the virus was not man-made
and there are literally, thousands of reasons on the internet why it was man made. who is correct?
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This is going to bring consequences (whether it is real or not). I am not wanting to start a political discussion and I hope you can behave and that it doesn't degenerate to soapbox level. If you can't avoid it, I will delete the whole thread. I decide to post it, because it is already circulating in the news of several countries and I have already seen it translated to 3 different languages. It is only a matter of time, that you get to this through other channels. BREAKING: Salvini Demands Answers – Does a 2015 Italian Documentary Prove the Coronavirus was created in a Chinese Lab? (WATCH) – RAIR[^] IMPORTANT NOTE: The video goes about A coronavirus, not about THE coronavirus. The problem is that it is so similar, that the polemic is exploding anyways. IMPORTANT NOTE 2: Only because they were investigating something similar doesn't mean they are guilty of this pandemia. I want to bring focus to the: "only because we can doesn't mean that we should" It is clear that many medical and technological advances are directly connected with dubvious experiments that ended right. But is it always worth the risks? We might do somethings to try to help, but at the end still be the cause of a big evil. ADDITION: I am not asking about "if they are involved", My question is more: "Do you agree with such experiments where we interfere that much with nature laws and that could potentially explode in our face and be a big evil?" (more in the line of 12 monkeys[^] or contagion[^]
M.D.V. ;) If something has a solution... Why do we have to worry about?. If it has no solution... For what reason do we have to worry about? Help me to understand what I'm saying, and I'll explain it better to you Rating helpful answers is nice, but saying thanks can be even nicer.
The modern day poster child for this argument is arguably "GMO" . Whilst some point out that some terrible Frankenstein vegetables will come out of it (cool movie, like Day-of-the-Triffids) others watch their crops die in the field from any number of natural disasters. The old way of modifying plants, by selective breeding, is really too slow with about 7 billion humans eating everything they can get. GMO foods allow for substantially higher productivity - sterile seeds or not, farmers choose them when planting because they can grow more and/or spend less growing it. This is a positive outcome even in very poor areas. It can fix unnecessary malnutrition (e.g., Golden Rice, containing Vitamin A). Prevent (or eliminating the need for) spraying of pesticides (like certain GMO corn (maize) ) means more food for people, less for bugs. On the other hand, there can be down-sides just as easily (akin to overuse of antibiotics). The corn that's kills corn-borers (internal pesticide same as used by organic farmers) will eventually kill off all of the susceptible borers and now we have a Frankenbug. If it doesn't produce sterile seed then further mutations, in the wild, can be a problem - whilst if it does produce sterile seed, it makes subsistence farmers dependent upon big-agriculture for each years seed. Those against? It's easier to argue against against productivity enhancements when your belly is full. A kind of snobbery. Those for it? Aside from those like myself, who consider it a necessity for survival (finally answering your question), there's money to be made. Summary - risk/reward is the answer. As the urgency for solutions increases, risk/reward gets skewed towards risk. Preparing for future events will entail some risk. Not preparing for them is also a risk. Basically, "those in charge" just have to not be stupid. Arguably, too much to ask.
"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein
"If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010
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Casting blame - founded or unfounded - helps no-one. Fix the problem, then work out how it happened and institute procedures to prevent it happening again. But sensationalist finger pointing by non-scientists just muddies the waters and reduces cooperation at the time it is most needed.
"I have no idea what I did, but I'm taking full credit for it." - ThisOldTony AntiTwitter: @DalekDave is now a follower!
Casting blame - it's what people like to do to avoid taking responsibility for their own actions. The world's politics is currently in a blame-phase. Certainly in much of Europe and the US. Other places (let's call them authoritarian) have done it since always. You can get away with a lot of abuse in the name of "protecting the motherland/fatherland/holycity/blah". That's one of the reasons conspiracy theories are as inevitable as breathing. If someone didn't ever study, cut school a lot, etc., and ends up with a lousy job, it has to be the fault of the person who's race and/g-d/language/place-of-birth is different than theirs. Isn't it always?
"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein
"If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010
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and there are literally, thousands of reasons on the internet why it was man made. who is correct?
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There was a good discussion about this on the Skeptics' Guide to the Universe podcast, this week (SGU episode 768[^]). They referred to this article (COVID-19 coronavirus epidemic has a natural origin[^]) It cited several reasons why the virus was not man-made
racketeer wrote:
It cited several reasons why the virus was not man-made
Oh, don't be silly! Why on Earth should you believe world-class experts in the field, when you have indisputable evidence like this:
Slacker007 wrote:
this strand of it COVID-19 is human manipulated, nature had nothing to do with it.
:doh: :sigh:
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
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You put trust in Salvini to tell the truth ?
I'd rather be phishing!
Maximilien wrote:
You put trust in Salvini to tell the truth ?
As much as I'd trust Berlusconi with a loan or Cicciolina to keep her clothes on.
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
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This is going to bring consequences (whether it is real or not). I am not wanting to start a political discussion and I hope you can behave and that it doesn't degenerate to soapbox level. If you can't avoid it, I will delete the whole thread. I decide to post it, because it is already circulating in the news of several countries and I have already seen it translated to 3 different languages. It is only a matter of time, that you get to this through other channels. BREAKING: Salvini Demands Answers – Does a 2015 Italian Documentary Prove the Coronavirus was created in a Chinese Lab? (WATCH) – RAIR[^] IMPORTANT NOTE: The video goes about A coronavirus, not about THE coronavirus. The problem is that it is so similar, that the polemic is exploding anyways. IMPORTANT NOTE 2: Only because they were investigating something similar doesn't mean they are guilty of this pandemia. I want to bring focus to the: "only because we can doesn't mean that we should" It is clear that many medical and technological advances are directly connected with dubvious experiments that ended right. But is it always worth the risks? We might do somethings to try to help, but at the end still be the cause of a big evil. ADDITION: I am not asking about "if they are involved", My question is more: "Do you agree with such experiments where we interfere that much with nature laws and that could potentially explode in our face and be a big evil?" (more in the line of 12 monkeys[^] or contagion[^]
M.D.V. ;) If something has a solution... Why do we have to worry about?. If it has no solution... For what reason do we have to worry about? Help me to understand what I'm saying, and I'll explain it better to you Rating helpful answers is nice, but saying thanks can be even nicer.
Science is a tool, any tool can be used both for good or for bad. The study of viruses is the base for genetic manipulation. Like it or not. The use of manipulated viruses will probably be a (if not the) solution to cancer treatment. Using viruses as weapons has been pondered, but it's quite stupid, because it hit's friends as well as foes, and it can't be controlled. That is exactly the reason anthrax has been developed for use as a biological weapon. It can be treated with antibiotics, and it is not contagious between humans.
Wrong is evil and must be defeated. - Jeff Ello
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racketeer wrote:
It cited several reasons why the virus was not man-made
Oh, don't be silly! Why on Earth should you believe world-class experts in the field, when you have indisputable evidence like this:
Slacker007 wrote:
this strand of it COVID-19 is human manipulated, nature had nothing to do with it.
:doh: :sigh:
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
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Coronaviruses are a virus familiy that has been investigated for decades now, especially after the SARS crisis in the past. It was proved that the virus could /edit NOT have been created intentionally in labs ; this said, it could have evolved from something created in a lab, but we will never know. Several countries have been experimented gene manipulations (on viruses, on animals, maybe even on people), under cover of trying to find cures. Or maybe the next power military beast. Here an example of research about corona :Paper coronavirus 2007 - Google Search[^] /edit: damn, I missed the most important word in my post
Rage wrote:
Several countries have been experimented gene manipulations (on viruses, on animals, maybe even on people)
So far, so good.
Rage wrote:
under cover of trying to find cures
Aaaand you blew it! Who? Who would work in a lab that was dedicated to producing a nastier version of SARS? Which people would get up in the morning, kiss their kids goodbye, go to work, and then work on designing an uncontrollable virus that kills people -- people like their children? And don't say they'd be designing a controllable one, because if they're good enough to do that kind of work, they're certainly knowledgeable enough to know that there's no such thing as a controllable micro-organism. Killable? Sure. Controllable? No way. Do you know how many people would be involved with a lab like that? , Scientists, researchers, research assistants, cleaners, HR, buyers, IT support, engineering support, software developers, delivery boys, etc, etc, etc. (Not to mention about 50 managers.) It's hundreds of people, not just one megalomaniacal nutter and a bunch of little yellow minions. You need a worshipful society to get enough of the different kinds of staff you'd need; they'd have to mindlessly and undeservedly worship their leader -- a "God on Earth" or a Big Brother type, like Pol Pot, Mao Ze Dong, etc. ISIS could do it, if they could actually get a lab like that together without the West finding out about it and bombing it; North Korea could do it, and I wouldn't put it past the current US administration to think seriously about it. But the country that most of these accusations are aimed at? Not a hope in Hell. Xi isn't revered or worshipped, like Mao was. He's respected, because he's a pretty remarkable guy (I apologise if this truth about a remarkable human being offends the indoctrinated feelings of some people, but, well, **** 'em; their racism offends me and most of the rest of the world), but if he tried to put together that kind of project, there'd be riots in the streets, and the army (which has a proud revolutionary history) would be on the rioters' side. Grimly Fiendish, Gru, Scaramanga, and Doctor Doom only exist in movies and comic books, and all the people needed to create such an uncontrollable "weapon" would have to be hired in the real world.
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a
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Convincing though the arguments might seem, I personally haven't had enough of experts :-D I think I'll wait until a scientist tells me of a cure rather than listen to a politician, a pastor or some bloke on the web
racketeer wrote:
Convincing though the arguments might seem, I personally haven't had enough of experts
As long as you remember that x is the unknown quantity and a spurt is a drip under pressure.
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
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I was not asking about "if they are involved", My question is more: "Do you agree with such experiments where we interfere that much with nature laws and could potentially explode in our face and be a big evil?"
M.D.V. ;) If something has a solution... Why do we have to worry about?. If it has no solution... For what reason do we have to worry about? Help me to understand what I'm saying, and I'll explain it better to you Rating helpful answers is nice, but saying thanks can be even nicer.
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Coronaviruses are a virus familiy that has been investigated for decades now, especially after the SARS crisis in the past. It was proved that the virus could /edit NOT have been created intentionally in labs ; this said, it could have evolved from something created in a lab, but we will never know. Several countries have been experimented gene manipulations (on viruses, on animals, maybe even on people), under cover of trying to find cures. Or maybe the next power military beast. Here an example of research about corona :Paper coronavirus 2007 - Google Search[^] /edit: damn, I missed the most important word in my post
Rage wrote:
Coronaviruses are a virus familiy that has been investigated for decades now
This. I was reading some random article on Wikipedia a few days ago that mentioned Coronaviruses had first been identified in the 60s. What this does to the Chinese conspiracy theory being floated about, I don't know, nor honestly care.
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Although I definitely lean to the left, I have to agree that "public television" is far from neutral. It has pretty much been hijacked by the far left. On the other side, the biggest "News" network in the US, FoxNews, is in fact not a news station, except for a little bit now and then. It is a non-stop opinion platform - and as such, has no accountability for spreading misinformation. It is, after all, just their opinion. This has been going on long enough where, with entire generation(s) having been brought up as with this as their reality, they gladly swallow their own puke - it's what they want to hear so it must be true. They new all along! In various forms, opposing opinions are just labeled "fake news" with any number of variations on the name, but in all cases, making ignoring unpleasant truths that much easier. New and Information is now firmly in the Cult category. We vs They continues to become, ever more so, WE vs THEY.
"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein
"If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010
W∴ Balboos, GHB wrote:
New and Information is now firmly in the Cult category.
Or in the Mistery section, because it hides from the public and it is not clear anymore :sigh:
M.D.V. ;) If something has a solution... Why do we have to worry about?. If it has no solution... For what reason do we have to worry about? Help me to understand what I'm saying, and I'll explain it better to you Rating helpful answers is nice, but saying thanks can be even nicer.
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Rage wrote:
Several countries have been experimented gene manipulations (on viruses, on animals, maybe even on people)
So far, so good.
Rage wrote:
under cover of trying to find cures
Aaaand you blew it! Who? Who would work in a lab that was dedicated to producing a nastier version of SARS? Which people would get up in the morning, kiss their kids goodbye, go to work, and then work on designing an uncontrollable virus that kills people -- people like their children? And don't say they'd be designing a controllable one, because if they're good enough to do that kind of work, they're certainly knowledgeable enough to know that there's no such thing as a controllable micro-organism. Killable? Sure. Controllable? No way. Do you know how many people would be involved with a lab like that? , Scientists, researchers, research assistants, cleaners, HR, buyers, IT support, engineering support, software developers, delivery boys, etc, etc, etc. (Not to mention about 50 managers.) It's hundreds of people, not just one megalomaniacal nutter and a bunch of little yellow minions. You need a worshipful society to get enough of the different kinds of staff you'd need; they'd have to mindlessly and undeservedly worship their leader -- a "God on Earth" or a Big Brother type, like Pol Pot, Mao Ze Dong, etc. ISIS could do it, if they could actually get a lab like that together without the West finding out about it and bombing it; North Korea could do it, and I wouldn't put it past the current US administration to think seriously about it. But the country that most of these accusations are aimed at? Not a hope in Hell. Xi isn't revered or worshipped, like Mao was. He's respected, because he's a pretty remarkable guy (I apologise if this truth about a remarkable human being offends the indoctrinated feelings of some people, but, well, **** 'em; their racism offends me and most of the rest of the world), but if he tried to put together that kind of project, there'd be riots in the streets, and the army (which has a proud revolutionary history) would be on the rioters' side. Grimly Fiendish, Gru, Scaramanga, and Doctor Doom only exist in movies and comic books, and all the people needed to create such an uncontrollable "weapon" would have to be hired in the real world.
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a
Who ? China did. France did, we have such a lab in the area of Lyon ! We had to pass a law for avoiding patents on biological livings and to stop gene manipulations or eugenics. These leads inexorably to human beings being transformed into men with no fear and no brain (so the perfect soldier). China even cloned a human being already. France has nuclear weapons. Enough to nuke the complete world. So what's the difference from the military point of view ? "Bioweapons" are at least as good mass destruction weapons as a deterrence strategy. Deterrence does not rely on killing others and controlling so that you are not touched by it, it relies on telling the others that there is nothing to win by attacking since nobody would survive at all. Plus bioterrorism is already a thing.[^] I am not telling that China or anyone has developed in a secret lab the Covid-19, this was clearly proved as a derivation of some animal virus. But this does not mean that nobody is developing some nasty things in an organized way and sponsored by goverments.
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Rage wrote:
Several countries have been experimented gene manipulations (on viruses, on animals, maybe even on people)
So far, so good.
Rage wrote:
under cover of trying to find cures
Aaaand you blew it! Who? Who would work in a lab that was dedicated to producing a nastier version of SARS? Which people would get up in the morning, kiss their kids goodbye, go to work, and then work on designing an uncontrollable virus that kills people -- people like their children? And don't say they'd be designing a controllable one, because if they're good enough to do that kind of work, they're certainly knowledgeable enough to know that there's no such thing as a controllable micro-organism. Killable? Sure. Controllable? No way. Do you know how many people would be involved with a lab like that? , Scientists, researchers, research assistants, cleaners, HR, buyers, IT support, engineering support, software developers, delivery boys, etc, etc, etc. (Not to mention about 50 managers.) It's hundreds of people, not just one megalomaniacal nutter and a bunch of little yellow minions. You need a worshipful society to get enough of the different kinds of staff you'd need; they'd have to mindlessly and undeservedly worship their leader -- a "God on Earth" or a Big Brother type, like Pol Pot, Mao Ze Dong, etc. ISIS could do it, if they could actually get a lab like that together without the West finding out about it and bombing it; North Korea could do it, and I wouldn't put it past the current US administration to think seriously about it. But the country that most of these accusations are aimed at? Not a hope in Hell. Xi isn't revered or worshipped, like Mao was. He's respected, because he's a pretty remarkable guy (I apologise if this truth about a remarkable human being offends the indoctrinated feelings of some people, but, well, **** 'em; their racism offends me and most of the rest of the world), but if he tried to put together that kind of project, there'd be riots in the streets, and the army (which has a proud revolutionary history) would be on the rioters' side. Grimly Fiendish, Gru, Scaramanga, and Doctor Doom only exist in movies and comic books, and all the people needed to create such an uncontrollable "weapon" would have to be hired in the real world.
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a
Mark, I just noticed that I forgot a "NOT" in a sentence in my initial post. Not that it changes my point, but it for sure led to confusion.
