Windows 10 is an abomination unto all living things.
-
I run a tech shop I know a thing or two because I've seen a thing or two. If yours is running - good, count your lucky stars. If it's not, it's because it sucks. I remember XP's setup R (For repair mode) that mickeysoft thought good to do away with when they lost their way and gave us Vista. It could bring a thrashed XP computer back from the edge all by itself. It's gotten so bad that in many cases even Reset and wipe the drive will fail. Forget system restore, M.S. forgot how to do it. Not only does ms not seem to know what they're doing today, I honestly think they outright hate the innocent people who know no bytes and have to use it by default and expect some level of respect from that company. They ask me why? As if I know. Why the automatic corrupdates? why this, why that. Remember, they dumped windows 8.0 on an unsuspecting world who were using 7 for oh, point of sale where is is super critical that that "cash register" works today like it did yesterday and doesn't have to "Get Ready". I run Windows 7 lustfully and will take it to my grave.
-
There's an idea. I've been thinking of what primary OS to use on my machine i plan on building. I need win10 but i want to run it in a VM anyway. And linux (my current primary) OS, is giving me as many problems as Win10 these days, including updates that cause boots to fail. Win7 is solid. I might just have to fire it up again and resurrect it as my primary OS to manage my virtual machines.
Real programmers use butterflies
honey the codewitch wrote:
And linux (my current primary) OS, is giving me as many problems as Win10 these days
That's what is kind of giving weight pondering if I switch or not. But... for my relatives... no way, at least not for a while until I have done all my tests with linux and found something that they can live with. For the moment I think I will buy a couple of those cheap win10 professional licenses and do a fresh install in their machines, then deactivate all auto crap that I can find and do it manually a couple of months later when things settle down and enough people have beta tested it.
M.D.V. ;) If something has a solution... Why do we have to worry about?. If it has no solution... For what reason do we have to worry about? Help me to understand what I'm saying, and I'll explain it better to you Rating helpful answers is nice, but saying thanks can be even nicer.
-
I run a tech shop I know a thing or two because I've seen a thing or two. If yours is running - good, count your lucky stars. If it's not, it's because it sucks. I remember XP's setup R (For repair mode) that mickeysoft thought good to do away with when they lost their way and gave us Vista. It could bring a thrashed XP computer back from the edge all by itself. It's gotten so bad that in many cases even Reset and wipe the drive will fail. Forget system restore, M.S. forgot how to do it. Not only does ms not seem to know what they're doing today, I honestly think they outright hate the innocent people who know no bytes and have to use it by default and expect some level of respect from that company. They ask me why? As if I know. Why the automatic corrupdates? why this, why that. Remember, they dumped windows 8.0 on an unsuspecting world who were using 7 for oh, point of sale where is is super critical that that "cash register" works today like it did yesterday and doesn't have to "Get Ready". I run Windows 7 lustfully and will take it to my grave.
I concur. I had to uninstall a VM update from my work machine because, after it was installed, running an Android virtual device consistently resulted in blue screens. Everyone else in the team had the same issue after the update. I have also informed my family not to install 2004, it sounds like a bit of a case of Russian roulette when installing that update.
“That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence.”
― Christopher Hitchens
-
honey the codewitch wrote:
And linux (my current primary) OS, is giving me as many problems as Win10 these days
That's what is kind of giving weight pondering if I switch or not. But... for my relatives... no way, at least not for a while until I have done all my tests with linux and found something that they can live with. For the moment I think I will buy a couple of those cheap win10 professional licenses and do a fresh install in their machines, then deactivate all auto crap that I can find and do it manually a couple of months later when things settle down and enough people have beta tested it.
M.D.V. ;) If something has a solution... Why do we have to worry about?. If it has no solution... For what reason do we have to worry about? Help me to understand what I'm saying, and I'll explain it better to you Rating helpful answers is nice, but saying thanks can be even nicer.
For the record, I'm pretty well versed in linux. I started running slackware on a 386 back in the day and since have set up exotic archlinux builds for embeddeds and such. I use Ubuntu 18.04 LTS precisely because I wanted to avoid stability/hardware issues but when they inevitably cropped up I knew I also had a huge user base to go to to look for solutions. People are down on Ubuntu but experience shows me a large user base, and a long running serviced version are the best bets for uptime. Still, no dice. I've had grub problems with Ubuntu's installer which render my machine unbootable unless i manually patch the boot sector and install grub by hand. Any update that updates grub and i have to repeat the process. I've had hardware problems crop up on devices that worked on the same friggen version of the same OS last time. I've had numerous fails with Ububtu's desktop/window manager. Bad enough that their graphics come up and obscure the window I'm working on, and the only way I've found to get rid of it is to restart the ridiculous window manager. It's just ... frustrating. And almost all I do with it is use it to host virtual machines. Even then, it just sucks. I'm heavily considering going to win7. And for relatives, stick with win10 regardless of what the knuckleheads here tell you. They won't be the ones having to get phone calls to repair your in-laws' computers. :laugh: Don't put linux on their machines. If it fails - and it will - their chances of working through the problem on their own are practically nil.
Real programmers use butterflies
-
For the record, I'm pretty well versed in linux. I started running slackware on a 386 back in the day and since have set up exotic archlinux builds for embeddeds and such. I use Ubuntu 18.04 LTS precisely because I wanted to avoid stability/hardware issues but when they inevitably cropped up I knew I also had a huge user base to go to to look for solutions. People are down on Ubuntu but experience shows me a large user base, and a long running serviced version are the best bets for uptime. Still, no dice. I've had grub problems with Ubuntu's installer which render my machine unbootable unless i manually patch the boot sector and install grub by hand. Any update that updates grub and i have to repeat the process. I've had hardware problems crop up on devices that worked on the same friggen version of the same OS last time. I've had numerous fails with Ububtu's desktop/window manager. Bad enough that their graphics come up and obscure the window I'm working on, and the only way I've found to get rid of it is to restart the ridiculous window manager. It's just ... frustrating. And almost all I do with it is use it to host virtual machines. Even then, it just sucks. I'm heavily considering going to win7. And for relatives, stick with win10 regardless of what the knuckleheads here tell you. They won't be the ones having to get phone calls to repair your in-laws' computers. :laugh: Don't put linux on their machines. If it fails - and it will - their chances of working through the problem on their own are practically nil.
Real programmers use butterflies
honey the codewitch wrote:
For the record, I'm pretty well versed in linux.
Not only in Linux... I do respect your impressive skills. And if you say you get troubles and have to do low level stuff manually... I don't want to think what I would do
honey the codewitch wrote:
And for relatives, stick with win10 regardless of what the knuckleheads here tell you
Yeah.. I would leave them in Win7, but on the other hand, I am starting to be unsure about it being safe, the more time it gets through the more chances to be victim of something in the internet. The problem is... I know the risks of staying in Win 7 for long, but I am not trusting the windows 10 to be much more secure even with "regular updates"
M.D.V. ;) If something has a solution... Why do we have to worry about?. If it has no solution... For what reason do we have to worry about? Help me to understand what I'm saying, and I'll explain it better to you Rating helpful answers is nice, but saying thanks can be even nicer.
-
honey the codewitch wrote:
For the record, I'm pretty well versed in linux.
Not only in Linux... I do respect your impressive skills. And if you say you get troubles and have to do low level stuff manually... I don't want to think what I would do
honey the codewitch wrote:
And for relatives, stick with win10 regardless of what the knuckleheads here tell you
Yeah.. I would leave them in Win7, but on the other hand, I am starting to be unsure about it being safe, the more time it gets through the more chances to be victim of something in the internet. The problem is... I know the risks of staying in Win 7 for long, but I am not trusting the windows 10 to be much more secure even with "regular updates"
M.D.V. ;) If something has a solution... Why do we have to worry about?. If it has no solution... For what reason do we have to worry about? Help me to understand what I'm saying, and I'll explain it better to you Rating helpful answers is nice, but saying thanks can be even nicer.
Nelek wrote:
I do respect your impressive skills.
:-O *blush* Thank you. You should see me in the kitchen, tho. :)
Nelek wrote:
The problem is... I know the risks of staying in Win 7 for long, but I am not trusting the windows 10 to be much more secure even with "regular updates"
Very true. It's a toss. I got nothing. I think though, just for reasons, you'll need to retire win7 eventually. Maybe just based on that it might be better to upgrade? All else considered equal-ish. I'm not sure. I think I'd stick out the rest of the year on win7 as win10 seems to be having a rough go of things right now.
Real programmers use butterflies
-
I run a tech shop I know a thing or two because I've seen a thing or two. If yours is running - good, count your lucky stars. If it's not, it's because it sucks. I remember XP's setup R (For repair mode) that mickeysoft thought good to do away with when they lost their way and gave us Vista. It could bring a thrashed XP computer back from the edge all by itself. It's gotten so bad that in many cases even Reset and wipe the drive will fail. Forget system restore, M.S. forgot how to do it. Not only does ms not seem to know what they're doing today, I honestly think they outright hate the innocent people who know no bytes and have to use it by default and expect some level of respect from that company. They ask me why? As if I know. Why the automatic corrupdates? why this, why that. Remember, they dumped windows 8.0 on an unsuspecting world who were using 7 for oh, point of sale where is is super critical that that "cash register" works today like it did yesterday and doesn't have to "Get Ready". I run Windows 7 lustfully and will take it to my grave.
Upvoted for the rant. Speaking for myself, I've found Windows 10 to be pretty stable. Of course, I don't stress it as much as some people do...
Freedom is the freedom to say that two plus two make four. If that is granted, all else follows. -- 6079 Smith W.
-
I run a tech shop I know a thing or two because I've seen a thing or two. If yours is running - good, count your lucky stars. If it's not, it's because it sucks. I remember XP's setup R (For repair mode) that mickeysoft thought good to do away with when they lost their way and gave us Vista. It could bring a thrashed XP computer back from the edge all by itself. It's gotten so bad that in many cases even Reset and wipe the drive will fail. Forget system restore, M.S. forgot how to do it. Not only does ms not seem to know what they're doing today, I honestly think they outright hate the innocent people who know no bytes and have to use it by default and expect some level of respect from that company. They ask me why? As if I know. Why the automatic corrupdates? why this, why that. Remember, they dumped windows 8.0 on an unsuspecting world who were using 7 for oh, point of sale where is is super critical that that "cash register" works today like it did yesterday and doesn't have to "Get Ready". I run Windows 7 lustfully and will take it to my grave.
-
I run a tech shop I know a thing or two because I've seen a thing or two. If yours is running - good, count your lucky stars. If it's not, it's because it sucks. I remember XP's setup R (For repair mode) that mickeysoft thought good to do away with when they lost their way and gave us Vista. It could bring a thrashed XP computer back from the edge all by itself. It's gotten so bad that in many cases even Reset and wipe the drive will fail. Forget system restore, M.S. forgot how to do it. Not only does ms not seem to know what they're doing today, I honestly think they outright hate the innocent people who know no bytes and have to use it by default and expect some level of respect from that company. They ask me why? As if I know. Why the automatic corrupdates? why this, why that. Remember, they dumped windows 8.0 on an unsuspecting world who were using 7 for oh, point of sale where is is super critical that that "cash register" works today like it did yesterday and doesn't have to "Get Ready". I run Windows 7 lustfully and will take it to my grave.
The SSD this machine came with sits on the table or the floor, depending on the cat's current mood. This HDD that has Win7 on it that came out of the last laptop will be cloned onto a new SSD sometime soon. If windows 10 was burning in a dumpster, I'd look for more refuse to chuck in.
-
honey the codewitch wrote:
I need win10 but i want to run it in a VM anyway.
IMHO, Win 10 isn't a good candidate to run in a VM. I tried doing that on my Win7 box (3GHz 8-core i7, 16GB RAM, 500GB fast-write SSD with lots of space) and it barely crawled. Had no problems running XP, Win7 and MacOS in a VM. Ironically, I'm about to upgrade to (actually do a fresh install of) Win10 in a few days. Wish me luck. :sigh: /ravi
My new year resolution: 2048 x 1536 Home | Articles | My .NET bits | Freeware ravib(at)ravib(dot)com
Ravi Bhavnani wrote:
IMHO, Win 10 isn't a good candidate to run in a VM.
Give it the resources it needs, and it'll be fine. Also...I'd try an OS that's newer than 7 to host a Win10 VM. I'd bet this is where your poor performance experience is coming from. Newer versions of Hyper-V do a far better job than...well, I honestly have no idea what you're using on 7. Clearly it won't be Hyper-V, so I can't bring much more to that particular aspect of the discussion. I came across a decent article (podcast discussion?) a while back and whoever was involved made a good point, and I totally believe it: MS has gotten rid of most of its QA people years ago, and most of the internal testing nowadays is done on VMs. Beyond this, they rely on the Windows Insiders program for additional feedback. So Windows 10 works well on VMs, the virtualized drivers are well-known and tested. Personally I never have any driver or hardware-related problem with Windows 10 on VMs. But the instant you throw it on "real" or strange hardware--anything that deviates from the predictable behavior of a VM - then you're more at risk of finding something that wasn't tested, or at least tested as thoroughly. To me that makes sense - we all keep hearing about people running into all sorts of horrible problems with upgrades, and it seems that the consensus is that they're getting *worse* over time, not better. Not a single month/Patch Tuesday ever goes by without having about some percentage of people running into issues. Yet the vast majority of my Windows 10 VMs ever have *any* problem with updates. So IMNSHO, saying Win10 isn't a good candidate for a VM...at least on Hyper-V...I just can't agree with that. It'd make the argument it might *better* as a VM than on real hardware for the reasons stated above.
-
For the record, I'm pretty well versed in linux. I started running slackware on a 386 back in the day and since have set up exotic archlinux builds for embeddeds and such. I use Ubuntu 18.04 LTS precisely because I wanted to avoid stability/hardware issues but when they inevitably cropped up I knew I also had a huge user base to go to to look for solutions. People are down on Ubuntu but experience shows me a large user base, and a long running serviced version are the best bets for uptime. Still, no dice. I've had grub problems with Ubuntu's installer which render my machine unbootable unless i manually patch the boot sector and install grub by hand. Any update that updates grub and i have to repeat the process. I've had hardware problems crop up on devices that worked on the same friggen version of the same OS last time. I've had numerous fails with Ububtu's desktop/window manager. Bad enough that their graphics come up and obscure the window I'm working on, and the only way I've found to get rid of it is to restart the ridiculous window manager. It's just ... frustrating. And almost all I do with it is use it to host virtual machines. Even then, it just sucks. I'm heavily considering going to win7. And for relatives, stick with win10 regardless of what the knuckleheads here tell you. They won't be the ones having to get phone calls to repair your in-laws' computers. :laugh: Don't put linux on their machines. If it fails - and it will - their chances of working through the problem on their own are practically nil.
Real programmers use butterflies
honey the codewitch wrote:
And for relatives, stick with win10 regardless of what the knuckleheads here tell you. They won't be the ones having to get phone calls to repair your in-laws' computers
How true. A lot of the people this knucklehead deals with are still on 7 (I was doing just that last evening), and I tell them all to stick with it, despite now being out of support, until their machine dies, rather than try to move them to anything Linux. For most of them, 10 isn't an option as 7 itself is already sluggish on their old hardware (despite the fact that Linux would probably work a lot better on said hardware if I tried). As much as I'm...ambivalent (?)...towards Windows 10, if someone must move away from 7, I do steer them towards it. And even though it's not something I would ever purchase for myself, I wouldn't tell someone to avoid a Mac if that's what they wanted - but I'm just not the guy to call if they have a problem with it. And so far, I don't know anyone (who can't do their own troubleshooting) who opted for one.
-
Upvoted for the rant. Speaking for myself, I've found Windows 10 to be pretty stable. Of course, I don't stress it as much as some people do...
Freedom is the freedom to say that two plus two make four. If that is granted, all else follows. -- 6079 Smith W.
-
The SSD this machine came with sits on the table or the floor, depending on the cat's current mood. This HDD that has Win7 on it that came out of the last laptop will be cloned onto a new SSD sometime soon. If windows 10 was burning in a dumpster, I'd look for more refuse to chuck in.
-
honey the codewitch wrote:
And for relatives, stick with win10 regardless of what the knuckleheads here tell you. They won't be the ones having to get phone calls to repair your in-laws' computers
How true. A lot of the people this knucklehead deals with are still on 7 (I was doing just that last evening), and I tell them all to stick with it, despite now being out of support, until their machine dies, rather than try to move them to anything Linux. For most of them, 10 isn't an option as 7 itself is already sluggish on their old hardware (despite the fact that Linux would probably work a lot better on said hardware if I tried). As much as I'm...ambivalent (?)...towards Windows 10, if someone must move away from 7, I do steer them towards it. And even though it's not something I would ever purchase for myself, I wouldn't tell someone to avoid a Mac if that's what they wanted - but I'm just not the guy to call if they have a problem with it. And so far, I don't know anyone (who can't do their own troubleshooting) who opted for one.
I'm with you all the way here. :)
Real programmers use butterflies
-
Ravi Bhavnani wrote:
IMHO, Win 10 isn't a good candidate to run in a VM.
Give it the resources it needs, and it'll be fine. Also...I'd try an OS that's newer than 7 to host a Win10 VM. I'd bet this is where your poor performance experience is coming from. Newer versions of Hyper-V do a far better job than...well, I honestly have no idea what you're using on 7. Clearly it won't be Hyper-V, so I can't bring much more to that particular aspect of the discussion. I came across a decent article (podcast discussion?) a while back and whoever was involved made a good point, and I totally believe it: MS has gotten rid of most of its QA people years ago, and most of the internal testing nowadays is done on VMs. Beyond this, they rely on the Windows Insiders program for additional feedback. So Windows 10 works well on VMs, the virtualized drivers are well-known and tested. Personally I never have any driver or hardware-related problem with Windows 10 on VMs. But the instant you throw it on "real" or strange hardware--anything that deviates from the predictable behavior of a VM - then you're more at risk of finding something that wasn't tested, or at least tested as thoroughly. To me that makes sense - we all keep hearing about people running into all sorts of horrible problems with upgrades, and it seems that the consensus is that they're getting *worse* over time, not better. Not a single month/Patch Tuesday ever goes by without having about some percentage of people running into issues. Yet the vast majority of my Windows 10 VMs ever have *any* problem with updates. So IMNSHO, saying Win10 isn't a good candidate for a VM...at least on Hyper-V...I just can't agree with that. It'd make the argument it might *better* as a VM than on real hardware for the reasons stated above.
dandy72 wrote:
I'd try an OS that's newer than 7 to host a Win10 VM. I'd bet this is where your poor performance experience is coming from.
:thumbsup: /ravi
My new year resolution: 2048 x 1536 Home | Articles | My .NET bits | Freeware ravib(at)ravib(dot)com
-
For the record, I'm pretty well versed in linux. I started running slackware on a 386 back in the day and since have set up exotic archlinux builds for embeddeds and such. I use Ubuntu 18.04 LTS precisely because I wanted to avoid stability/hardware issues but when they inevitably cropped up I knew I also had a huge user base to go to to look for solutions. People are down on Ubuntu but experience shows me a large user base, and a long running serviced version are the best bets for uptime. Still, no dice. I've had grub problems with Ubuntu's installer which render my machine unbootable unless i manually patch the boot sector and install grub by hand. Any update that updates grub and i have to repeat the process. I've had hardware problems crop up on devices that worked on the same friggen version of the same OS last time. I've had numerous fails with Ububtu's desktop/window manager. Bad enough that their graphics come up and obscure the window I'm working on, and the only way I've found to get rid of it is to restart the ridiculous window manager. It's just ... frustrating. And almost all I do with it is use it to host virtual machines. Even then, it just sucks. I'm heavily considering going to win7. And for relatives, stick with win10 regardless of what the knuckleheads here tell you. They won't be the ones having to get phone calls to repair your in-laws' computers. :laugh: Don't put linux on their machines. If it fails - and it will - their chances of working through the problem on their own are practically nil.
Real programmers use butterflies
honey the codewitch wrote:
I started running slackware on a 386 back in the day . . .
Ditto. (Praise Bob.) But did you install Slackware from 3 1/2" disks? I don't think it counts, unless you did.
We won't sit down. We won't shut up. We won't go quietly away. YouTube, and My Mu[sic], Films and Windows Programs, etc. and FB
