Covid versions - NOT POLITICAL (I promise)
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I failed to see the point of the "tiny experiences". Like saying: I've never had a car accident so what's the big deal. My beef is with anything that makes others complacent and do less thinking.
It was only in wine that he laid down no limit for himself, but he did not allow himself to be confused by it. ― Confucian Analects: Rules of Confucius about his food
Gerry Schmitz wrote:
"tiny experiences".
Every experience is a tiny experience so I guess no one should ever share anything again? :doh:
Gerry Schmitz wrote:
I've never had a car accident so what's the big deal.
No, it's not. I specifically said I did get Covid and many others did.
Gerry Schmitz wrote:
My beef is with anything that makes others complacent and do less thinking.
Then you have a beef with both sides of this issue. :laugh:
Social Media - A platform that makes it easier for the crazies to find each other. Everyone is born right handed. Only the strongest overcome it. Fight for left-handed rights and hand equality.
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Are you in dead earnest suggesting that people killed in car crashes are not counted as car crash victims if they are cov19 positive? ... Some conspiracy theories are funnier than others ... How do you think this works: If four people are killed in the same accident, and one of them is cov+, do they then file it as four covid fatalities? Or are they treated separately: Three of them as car crash fatalities, one as a covid fatality? Who do you think are responsible for this classification of car fatalities as covid fatalities? The police at the site of the crash? The best doctors in the world? The funeral homes? Why are they doing it? Do they (whoever "they" are) want to make it look as if the corona handling has been handled with less competence than in other countries, to put the US in a bad light? Or are they car driving fanatics who want to suppress the fact that cars kill a hundred persons a day in the US alone? Or are they extreme left wingers who believe that (mis)classifying car crash fatalities as covid fatalities helps building a solid foundation for a revolution? This is completely crazy. Sure there are some borderline cases, e.g. if a covid patient has a stroke that he might have survived if he wasn't weakened by covid. Without covid he might have survived, without the stroke he might have survived. So how do you classify his death? - but extending this to car crash victims is just way off.
I have firsthand knowledge of this, so believe me or not -- I don't care. And no, I don't think it's trying to make the US look bad or incompetent. I think they honestly believe it's the way it should be for some reason. Maybe so no mistake is made in the other way: discounting things that should be counted as covid. But, like I said, I don't know how much this skews the numbers one way or the other. I guess you'd have to know how many died of "true" causes vs covid and I'm not sure there's a way to know. It's not a conspiracy, it's just facts.
#SupportHeForShe Government can give you nothing but what it takes from somebody else. A government big enough to give you everything you want is big enough to take everything you've got, including your freedom.-Ezra Taft Benson You must accept 1 of 2 basic premises: Either we are alone in the universe or we are not alone. Either way, the implications are staggering!-Wernher von Braun
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Dude, the mortality rate from COVID in Europe or rest of the world is higher than in what it is in the US. US has 2.9% mortality rate REST: 3.3% mortality rate
#SupportHeForShe Government can give you nothing but what it takes from somebody else. A government big enough to give you everything you want is big enough to take everything you've got, including your freedom.-Ezra Taft Benson You must accept 1 of 2 basic premises: Either we are alone in the universe or we are not alone. Either way, the implications are staggering!-Wernher von Braun
It seems you're right, I stand corrected :omg: Netherlands 4.9%, Belgium 8.1%, UK 9%, Italy 11.2%... US only 2.8%. I wonder what causes these differences. But I'm pretty sure it's despite obesity and not because. Part of it is average age, like Italy has lots of old folk where the US population is considerably younger on average. And of course testing capacity, less testing is a higher mortality rate. On the other hand, US accounts for about 21% of global deaths while only having 4.25% of the world population...
Best, Sander sanderrossel.com Migrating Applications to the Cloud with Azure arrgh.js - Bringing LINQ to JavaScript Object-Oriented Programming in C# Succinctly
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I have firsthand knowledge of this, so believe me or not -- I don't care. And no, I don't think it's trying to make the US look bad or incompetent. I think they honestly believe it's the way it should be for some reason. Maybe so no mistake is made in the other way: discounting things that should be counted as covid. But, like I said, I don't know how much this skews the numbers one way or the other. I guess you'd have to know how many died of "true" causes vs covid and I'm not sure there's a way to know. It's not a conspiracy, it's just facts.
#SupportHeForShe Government can give you nothing but what it takes from somebody else. A government big enough to give you everything you want is big enough to take everything you've got, including your freedom.-Ezra Taft Benson You must accept 1 of 2 basic premises: Either we are alone in the universe or we are not alone. Either way, the implications are staggering!-Wernher von Braun
TheGreatAndPowerfulOz wrote:
But, like I said, I don't know how much this skews the numbers one way or the other. I guess you'd have to know how many died of "true" causes vs covid and I'm not sure there's a way to know.
You can't get an exact count, but by the end of they year, you can count the total number of deaths and compare to previous years. If the number of deaths jumps up by a quarter of a million from the 2019 and 2018 figures, you go looking for possible explanations. In some groups of death causes you may discover that death counts are reduced, e.g. fewer road accidents because people stay more at home, drive less, fewer people drowning because they don't go as much to the beach this year, fewer deaths from the common flu because the covid precautions has significantly reduced the spread of the common flu, etc. So you may actually end up with an increase in "unexplained" deaths of more than 250,000. Maybe you have other explanations for some of these, like a big increase from earlier years in fatal heat strokes due to global warming, or a lot more young men being shot or strangled to death. When you have subtracted these numbers, you are probably still left with a significant unexplained increase in deaths. You may ascribe them all to Covid-19, or in part to some other special condition this year. But as long as you do not present any credible alternative explanation for the increased death counts, ascribing them to Covid sounds reasonable. You may of course do the same for other figures, not ony deaths but e.g. hospitalizations, number of people who has been need ventilators etc., compared to 2019 and 2018, but some of these numbers may be less accessible and may be less exact or debatable (deaths are more absolute). You may assume that the reporting was similar in previous years, so even though the figures may be inexact or incomplete, you may look for changes in 2020, to shed light on the death counts.
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Yeah, the self-appointed "experts" are doing us all a disservice.
#SupportHeForShe Government can give you nothing but what it takes from somebody else. A government big enough to give you everything you want is big enough to take everything you've got, including your freedom.-Ezra Taft Benson You must accept 1 of 2 basic premises: Either we are alone in the universe or we are not alone. Either way, the implications are staggering!-Wernher von Braun
No - not the self appointed ones. We're talking patronage and cronyism. For example, in the US, today, the appointed head(s) of some governmental departments are people who spent their careers fighting that(those) departments. Progress rolled back to increase profits. Public good and long term planning be damned.
"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein
"If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010
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� Forogar � wrote:
you haven't watched all the news, have you?
Thank goodness no. But there was some concern over that in the beginning and all the talk was about "flatten the curve" and that was done long ago and hospitals have not since had that problem.
Social Media - A platform that makes it easier for the crazies to find each other. Everyone is born right handed. Only the strongest overcome it. Fight for left-handed rights and hand equality.
ZurdoDev wrote:
there was some concern over that in the beginning and all the talk was about "flatten the curve"
Yeah, in states like NY, NJ, CT. Meanwhile, the nitwits in states like GA, FL, TX, . . . . etc. are busy generating their own spikes. Rising death rates and all . . . but you, with your "thank goodness" don't watch the news. Do you then form your opinions via wishful thinking or the other 'genius' (he told us he was one) who just knows better as he creates his own reality and the believers do what believers do. A suppose about a thousand deaths per day isn't much by your standards.
"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein
"If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010
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ZurdoDev wrote:
there was some concern over that in the beginning and all the talk was about "flatten the curve"
Yeah, in states like NY, NJ, CT. Meanwhile, the nitwits in states like GA, FL, TX, . . . . etc. are busy generating their own spikes. Rising death rates and all . . . but you, with your "thank goodness" don't watch the news. Do you then form your opinions via wishful thinking or the other 'genius' (he told us he was one) who just knows better as he creates his own reality and the believers do what believers do. A suppose about a thousand deaths per day isn't much by your standards.
"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein
"If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010
You have TDS bad. I suggest you get it looked at. Although there is no known cure right now. Seriously. What the heck is your response about? None of it makes any sense. You're just ranting like a TDS leftist. Whatever, it's entertaining since you are so wrong and don't know anything about me yet pretend to know so much. :laugh: :thumbsup:
Social Media - A platform that makes it easier for the crazies to find each other. Everyone is born right handed. Only the strongest overcome it. Fight for left-handed rights and hand equality.
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You have TDS bad. I suggest you get it looked at. Although there is no known cure right now. Seriously. What the heck is your response about? None of it makes any sense. You're just ranting like a TDS leftist. Whatever, it's entertaining since you are so wrong and don't know anything about me yet pretend to know so much. :laugh: :thumbsup:
Social Media - A platform that makes it easier for the crazies to find each other. Everyone is born right handed. Only the strongest overcome it. Fight for left-handed rights and hand equality.
ZurdoDev wrote:
TDS leftist.
Oh my - we have a label - and since you don't like reality you know it must be manufactured by "the LEFT" !
ZurdoDev wrote:
you are so wrong and don't know anything about me yet pretend to know so much.
Here, as you almost invariably are, you are wrong yet again. I know a lot about you - as do others who read your posts: for you define yourself with each of them. No one gives a flying fuck what you think yourself to be in your own imaginings. You are who you show yourself to be. So stop that worn out and preposterous whine of me (or anyone elsed) not knowing anything about you.
"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein
"If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010
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ZurdoDev wrote:
TDS leftist.
Oh my - we have a label - and since you don't like reality you know it must be manufactured by "the LEFT" !
ZurdoDev wrote:
you are so wrong and don't know anything about me yet pretend to know so much.
Here, as you almost invariably are, you are wrong yet again. I know a lot about you - as do others who read your posts: for you define yourself with each of them. No one gives a flying fuck what you think yourself to be in your own imaginings. You are who you show yourself to be. So stop that worn out and preposterous whine of me (or anyone elsed) not knowing anything about you.
"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein
"If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010
You are a funny old man.
W∴ Balboos, GHB wrote:
not knowing anything about you.
Then prove it. List some things you know about me.
Social Media - A platform that makes it easier for the crazies to find each other. Everyone is born right handed. Only the strongest overcome it. Fight for left-handed rights and hand equality.
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You are a funny old man.
W∴ Balboos, GHB wrote:
not knowing anything about you.
Then prove it. List some things you know about me.
Social Media - A platform that makes it easier for the crazies to find each other. Everyone is born right handed. Only the strongest overcome it. Fight for left-handed rights and hand equality.
Total Synopsis: Right wing TROLL wallowing in cherry-picked ignorance Yeah - that about sums it up.
"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein
"If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010
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Total Synopsis: Right wing TROLL wallowing in cherry-picked ignorance Yeah - that about sums it up.
"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein
"If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010
I accept your surrender. You're all talk bud. Wrong every time you respond to me. Not even in the ballpark. But the fact that you go crazy each time I disagree with you proves my original point. Again and again. Have a good day.
Social Media - A platform that makes it easier for the crazies to find each other. Everyone is born right handed. Only the strongest overcome it. Fight for left-handed rights and hand equality.
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It seems you're right, I stand corrected :omg: Netherlands 4.9%, Belgium 8.1%, UK 9%, Italy 11.2%... US only 2.8%. I wonder what causes these differences. But I'm pretty sure it's despite obesity and not because. Part of it is average age, like Italy has lots of old folk where the US population is considerably younger on average. And of course testing capacity, less testing is a higher mortality rate. On the other hand, US accounts for about 21% of global deaths while only having 4.25% of the world population...
Best, Sander sanderrossel.com Migrating Applications to the Cloud with Azure arrgh.js - Bringing LINQ to JavaScript Object-Oriented Programming in C# Succinctly
Find the figures that suits you best, and promote those as The One To Focus On. Deaths per million population - Worldometers as of this morning: USA: 647 Netherlands: 376 Belgium: 867 UK: 623 Italy: 595 Cases per million population: USA: 23,037 Netherlands: 7,926 Belgium: 11,224 UK: 7,399 Italy: 5,383 So USA has far more cases, which is bad in isolation. But it gives you a big number to divide the death count by, giving a more favorable impression of the mortality rate. Deaths divided by cases (as of Worldometers figures today): USA: 2.8% Netherlands: 4.7% Belgium: 7.7% UK: 8.4% Italy: 11% We can stop there. But hold on a second... This assumes that all covid cases are detected in the countries we look at - or at least that the percentage of cases detected is reasonable similar. You detect cases by testing. Tests per million population: USA: 336,253 Netherlands: 142,875 Belgium: 293,269 UK: 368,471 Italy: 194,977 So USA has tested 135% more than the Netherlands, 15% more than Belgium, actually 9% less than UK, and 72% more than Italy. It was suggested to reduce the amount of testing, to keep the case sount down - if that logic holds water, we might assume that there are in fact lots of unreported cases, especally in the Netherlands and Italy. The divisor in the "Deaths / cases" calculation may in fact be significantly higher, bringing the mortailty rate significantly down, for these countries. Whether or not this "correction" should be applied also depends on what qualifies you for being tested, which is not necessarily the same in all countries. Some places, anyone who wants to, whether having symptoms or not, are tested. In other countries (especially in the early stages of the spreading of the virus), testing was - due to limited capacity - restricted to those in the "high risk groups" and those showing symptoms. Or, if you in one area (city, state) have a large outbreak, you may start widespread testing there, leaving other areas less tested. All such differences strongly affect how many covid cases are discovered, and how many go unregistred. So let us see how effective the testing is, looking at number of cases detected per test: USA: 0.068 Netherlands: 0.018 Belgium: 0.026 UK: 0.050 Italy: 0.036 On possible observation from this is that USA is a lot better at "finding" covid cases, bringing up the case count (i.e. the divisor in the mortality calculation). It could be that there are just as many cases in other countries,
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Find the figures that suits you best, and promote those as The One To Focus On. Deaths per million population - Worldometers as of this morning: USA: 647 Netherlands: 376 Belgium: 867 UK: 623 Italy: 595 Cases per million population: USA: 23,037 Netherlands: 7,926 Belgium: 11,224 UK: 7,399 Italy: 5,383 So USA has far more cases, which is bad in isolation. But it gives you a big number to divide the death count by, giving a more favorable impression of the mortality rate. Deaths divided by cases (as of Worldometers figures today): USA: 2.8% Netherlands: 4.7% Belgium: 7.7% UK: 8.4% Italy: 11% We can stop there. But hold on a second... This assumes that all covid cases are detected in the countries we look at - or at least that the percentage of cases detected is reasonable similar. You detect cases by testing. Tests per million population: USA: 336,253 Netherlands: 142,875 Belgium: 293,269 UK: 368,471 Italy: 194,977 So USA has tested 135% more than the Netherlands, 15% more than Belgium, actually 9% less than UK, and 72% more than Italy. It was suggested to reduce the amount of testing, to keep the case sount down - if that logic holds water, we might assume that there are in fact lots of unreported cases, especally in the Netherlands and Italy. The divisor in the "Deaths / cases" calculation may in fact be significantly higher, bringing the mortailty rate significantly down, for these countries. Whether or not this "correction" should be applied also depends on what qualifies you for being tested, which is not necessarily the same in all countries. Some places, anyone who wants to, whether having symptoms or not, are tested. In other countries (especially in the early stages of the spreading of the virus), testing was - due to limited capacity - restricted to those in the "high risk groups" and those showing symptoms. Or, if you in one area (city, state) have a large outbreak, you may start widespread testing there, leaving other areas less tested. All such differences strongly affect how many covid cases are discovered, and how many go unregistred. So let us see how effective the testing is, looking at number of cases detected per test: USA: 0.068 Netherlands: 0.018 Belgium: 0.026 UK: 0.050 Italy: 0.036 On possible observation from this is that USA is a lot better at "finding" covid cases, bringing up the case count (i.e. the divisor in the mortality calculation). It could be that there are just as many cases in other countries,
And if all else fails I'll just say I don't trust our governments. My government boosts the numbers to make us scared and keep us in check. Your government reports less numbers to look better. Now try and fact check that! :laugh: I'm joking, but there are plenty of people who do exactly this and they're not :sigh:
trønderen wrote:
There are so many numbers for us to juggle, and so large variations in national conditions (and they have changed a lot since March, at different rate in different countries) that you will always be able to find figures to support your case.
Completely agree there!
Best, Sander Azure Serverless Succinctly Migrating Applications to the Cloud with Azure arrgh.js - Bringing LINQ to JavaScript
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No - not the self appointed ones. We're talking patronage and cronyism. For example, in the US, today, the appointed head(s) of some governmental departments are people who spent their careers fighting that(those) departments. Progress rolled back to increase profits. Public good and long term planning be damned.
"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein
"If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010
I'm not sure what is worse. What you describe or people who get in there and treat it as their little fiefdom / kingdom and act as if they are GOD himself.
#SupportHeForShe Government can give you nothing but what it takes from somebody else. A government big enough to give you everything you want is big enough to take everything you've got, including your freedom.-Ezra Taft Benson You must accept 1 of 2 basic premises: Either we are alone in the universe or we are not alone. Either way, the implications are staggering!-Wernher von Braun
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I'm not sure what is worse. What you describe or people who get in there and treat it as their little fiefdom / kingdom and act as if they are GOD himself.
#SupportHeForShe Government can give you nothing but what it takes from somebody else. A government big enough to give you everything you want is big enough to take everything you've got, including your freedom.-Ezra Taft Benson You must accept 1 of 2 basic premises: Either we are alone in the universe or we are not alone. Either way, the implications are staggering!-Wernher von Braun
Actually, what you say is part of the story. Sometimes in the background - in the view of supporters without the need to say it outright by the leader. Basically, though, when someone keeps declaring themselves and their deeds as "Perfect" - we can tend to think the implication of deity is there. Somehow a mixture of "1984" double-think and that "Cult of Personality" song have moved in on us - supported by that staunch and every ready defender of the all that is good: "The Armies of the Stupid Faithful Stupid Faithful . . . "
"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein
"If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010
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Total Synopsis: Right wing TROLL wallowing in cherry-picked ignorance Yeah - that about sums it up.
"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein
"If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010
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Never argue with a fool - observers may not be able to tell the difference.
- I would love to change the world, but they won’t give me the source code.
I was feeling a bit biblical this AM. "Answer a fool according to his follie, lest he be wise in his own conceit." I mean, really, if we ignored him and he left the site, who'd we have to laugh at on such a regular basis?
"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein
"If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010
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I was feeling a bit biblical this AM. "Answer a fool according to his follie, lest he be wise in his own conceit." I mean, really, if we ignored him and he left the site, who'd we have to laugh at on such a regular basis?
"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein
"If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010
