API Copyright (Google vs Oracle).
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The symphony is an implementation that you can copyright; you can't copyright the "idea" / concept of a symphony (e.g. "romance"). An API is an abstraction. So is low-level code. The higher the abstraction, the more it qualifies as an "idea" and is then not subject to copyright. What is "higher" than an API that can express the idea behind it? The consumer? Which depends.
It was only in wine that he laid down no limit for himself, but he did not allow himself to be confused by it. ― Confucian Analects: Rules of Confucius about his food
A symphonic sketch is less than a symphony (copyrightable) but less than an idea or genre (not copyrightable), which is why I thought it might be an interesting analogy. An API might give you a very good idea of the underlying object model and its internal collaborations, which is far more than an idea.
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The fox knows many things, but the hedgehog knows one big thing. -
An "API" is not "code"; it's a "promise" (or maybe only a hint). It's like saying: if Java had a "GetApple()" method, no one else can use it without paying a royalty; even though said API might: - returned an orange instead of an apple - picked an apple from a tree vs a bin - also washed or peeled the apple (optional parameter with default) - returned Adam's apple - etc. An API is not code; the implementation (and how it is implemented) is. Let's see if the enlightened judiciary gets it.
It was only in wine that he laid down no limit for himself, but he did not allow himself to be confused by it. ― Confucian Analects: Rules of Confucius about his food
You have not seen the patents that are our there... haven't you? i.e. Unlock a device by sliding your finger on the screen: Patented (as idea) and there was a trial too (AFAIK its veredict was against all common sense) So... I would not bet on this one.
M.D.V. ;) If something has a solution... Why do we have to worry about?. If it has no solution... For what reason do we have to worry about? Help me to understand what I'm saying, and I'll explain it better to you Rating helpful answers is nice, but saying thanks can be even nicer.
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Hopefully all those judges and high courts with decades of experience with copyright laws and the extensive details of the actual case come here to find the answer to their legal quandary from some guy on the internet. Who knows why the case has turned out to be so complex given how simple the issue apparently is.
F-ES Sitecore wrote:
Hopefully all those judges and high courts with decades of experience with copyright laws and the extensive details of the actual case come here to find the answer to their legal quandary from some guy on the internet.
Probably they should, because they do lack the technical knowledge about the possible implications that their veredict might have worldwide.
F-ES Sitecore wrote:
Who knows why the case has turned out to be so complex given how simple the issue apparently is.
Are we not speaking about trials, companies with a lot of lawyers and a possible big $$$ involved at the end? I would say it was not to expect anything else.
M.D.V. ;) If something has a solution... Why do we have to worry about?. If it has no solution... For what reason do we have to worry about? Help me to understand what I'm saying, and I'll explain it better to you Rating helpful answers is nice, but saying thanks can be even nicer.
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A symphonic sketch is less than a symphony (copyrightable) but less than an idea or genre (not copyrightable), which is why I thought it might be an interesting analogy. An API might give you a very good idea of the underlying object model and its internal collaborations, which is far more than an idea.
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The fox knows many things, but the hedgehog knows one big thing.Trying to classify an API as "revealing" or "not revealing" would be pointless. I could publish a whole bunch of "do nothing" API calls just to claim it as my "vocabulary". That goes way beyond sitting on a domain name.
It was only in wine that he laid down no limit for himself, but he did not allow himself to be confused by it. ― Confucian Analects: Rules of Confucius about his food
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Oracle wants to copyright how you talk to their box. Which will then allow them to make you pay a royalty if you talk to an Android Google box.
It was only in wine that he laid down no limit for himself, but he did not allow himself to be confused by it. ― Confucian Analects: Rules of Confucius about his food
Haven't we been through this process before, regarding PC BIOS? The PC BIOS was Copyrighted by IBM but Compaq and Phoenix and others copied the functionality without copying the code. How did Compaq reverse engineered patented IBM code? - Quora[^] So the question is, is the discussion regarding copyrighted code or patented code?
Wrong is evil and must be defeated. - Jeff Ello Never stop dreaming - Freddie Kruger
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You have not seen the patents that are our there... haven't you? i.e. Unlock a device by sliding your finger on the screen: Patented (as idea) and there was a trial too (AFAIK its veredict was against all common sense) So... I would not bet on this one.
M.D.V. ;) If something has a solution... Why do we have to worry about?. If it has no solution... For what reason do we have to worry about? Help me to understand what I'm saying, and I'll explain it better to you Rating helpful answers is nice, but saying thanks can be even nicer.
The "swipe" is a particular technique, involving the device and the user, electronically, digitally, timings, offset, displacements, speed, pressure, etc. A lot more complex a scenario than a digital "promise". An "API" can be 1 method / call; or thousands; or a subset; or a hyper-set; ... We could start by eliminating "text speak" which has been piggy backing on a known language. Or make them pay a royalty.
It was only in wine that he laid down no limit for himself, but he did not allow himself to be confused by it. ― Confucian Analects: Rules of Confucius about his food
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Haven't we been through this process before, regarding PC BIOS? The PC BIOS was Copyrighted by IBM but Compaq and Phoenix and others copied the functionality without copying the code. How did Compaq reverse engineered patented IBM code? - Quora[^] So the question is, is the discussion regarding copyrighted code or patented code?
Wrong is evil and must be defeated. - Jeff Ello Never stop dreaming - Freddie Kruger
That is a great example of precedence! A BIOS is a great example of an API. It's not high level like the one at issue, java, but that is definitely a software API where the application is the computer's operating system and, effectively, all programs that run on it.
"They have a consciousness, they have a life, they have a soul! Damn you! Let the rabbits wear glasses! Save our brothers! Can I get an amen?"
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Hopefully all those judges and high courts with decades of experience with copyright laws and the extensive details of the actual case come here to find the answer to their legal quandary from some guy on the internet. Who knows why the case has turned out to be so complex given how simple the issue apparently is.
What has happened is a tech-savvy judge got it sorted out and made their ruling. Oracle didn't like it and appealed to the next higher court. They didn't get and reversed. Google didn't like that and appealed, and ... I might have the ordered messed up but it has been a sequence of hearings somewhat like that. The key to this case will be making an argument that the non-tech savvy supremes can almost understand so that they'll even hear it in the first place.
"They have a consciousness, they have a life, they have a soul! Damn you! Let the rabbits wear glasses! Save our brothers! Can I get an amen?"
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You have not seen the patents that are our there... haven't you? i.e. Unlock a device by sliding your finger on the screen: Patented (as idea) and there was a trial too (AFAIK its veredict was against all common sense) So... I would not bet on this one.
M.D.V. ;) If something has a solution... Why do we have to worry about?. If it has no solution... For what reason do we have to worry about? Help me to understand what I'm saying, and I'll explain it better to you Rating helpful answers is nice, but saying thanks can be even nicer.
Amazon patented a concept they call, "one-click ordering." The patent situation in the USA is out of control.
"They have a consciousness, they have a life, they have a soul! Damn you! Let the rabbits wear glasses! Save our brothers! Can I get an amen?"
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Amazon patented a concept they call, "one-click ordering." The patent situation in the USA is out of control.
"They have a consciousness, they have a life, they have a soul! Damn you! Let the rabbits wear glasses! Save our brothers! Can I get an amen?"
Can I patent a 'one-flick' insult? Two, if you want to use both hands! Instant moneybags! :-D
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Hopefully all those judges and high courts with decades of experience with copyright laws and the extensive details of the actual case come here to find the answer to their legal quandary from some guy on the internet. Who knows why the case has turned out to be so complex given how simple the issue apparently is.
They would first have to agree on the difference between an "argument" and a "parameter." :-\
It was only in wine that he laid down no limit for himself, but he did not allow himself to be confused by it. ― Confucian Analects: Rules of Confucius about his food
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Amazon patented a concept they call, "one-click ordering." The patent situation in the USA is out of control.
"They have a consciousness, they have a life, they have a soul! Damn you! Let the rabbits wear glasses! Save our brothers! Can I get an amen?"
I think that's more "branding" than some real process. If you think about, it's probably filling in a bunch of boxes and then using "one click" to send it off. Like "one-stop shopping". (Forget about the traffic lights)
It was only in wine that he laid down no limit for himself, but he did not allow himself to be confused by it. ― Confucian Analects: Rules of Confucius about his food
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Amazon patented a concept they call, "one-click ordering." The patent situation in the USA is out of control.
"They have a consciousness, they have a life, they have a soul! Damn you! Let the rabbits wear glasses! Save our brothers! Can I get an amen?"
There is also a patent on saving what's displayed on a screen before overlaying it, so that it can be easily restored without redrawing what was there before. This kind of thing is why I think all software patents should be cancelled and replaced by copyrights.
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The fox knows many things, but the hedgehog knows one big thing. -
I think that's more "branding" than some real process. If you think about, it's probably filling in a bunch of boxes and then using "one click" to send it off. Like "one-stop shopping". (Forget about the traffic lights)
It was only in wine that he laid down no limit for himself, but he did not allow himself to be confused by it. ― Confucian Analects: Rules of Confucius about his food
That should fall under a trademark, not a patent.
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The fox knows many things, but the hedgehog knows one big thing. -
Can I patent a 'one-flick' insult? Two, if you want to use both hands! Instant moneybags! :-D
I am going to patent the human walk and all it's variants.
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I am going to patent the human walk and all it's variants.
I thought Monty Python's already been there. Or was that only the silly ones?
Wrong is evil and must be defeated. - Jeff Ello Never stop dreaming - Freddie Kruger
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F-ES Sitecore wrote:
Hopefully all those judges and high courts with decades of experience with copyright laws and the extensive details of the actual case come here to find the answer to their legal quandary from some guy on the internet.
Probably they should, because they do lack the technical knowledge about the possible implications that their veredict might have worldwide.
F-ES Sitecore wrote:
Who knows why the case has turned out to be so complex given how simple the issue apparently is.
Are we not speaking about trials, companies with a lot of lawyers and a possible big $$$ involved at the end? I would say it was not to expect anything else.
M.D.V. ;) If something has a solution... Why do we have to worry about?. If it has no solution... For what reason do we have to worry about? Help me to understand what I'm saying, and I'll explain it better to you Rating helpful answers is nice, but saying thanks can be even nicer.
Nelek wrote:
Probably they should, because they do lack the technical knowledge about the possible implications that their veredict might have worldwide.
That's quite patronising TBH, don't you think the complexity and depth of the laws involved are 1,000,000 times more difficult to grasp than understanding what an API is?
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Amazon patented a concept they call, "one-click ordering." The patent situation in the USA is out of control.
"They have a consciousness, they have a life, they have a soul! Damn you! Let the rabbits wear glasses! Save our brothers! Can I get an amen?"
Thankfully having a patent and upholding it aren't the same thing. There certainly are lots of patents granted in the past that certainly wouldn't be granted today, and some patents have also been reversed as upholding them would stifle entire industries.
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I think that's more "branding" than some real process. If you think about, it's probably filling in a bunch of boxes and then using "one click" to send it off. Like "one-stop shopping". (Forget about the traffic lights)
It was only in wine that he laid down no limit for himself, but he did not allow himself to be confused by it. ― Confucian Analects: Rules of Confucius about his food
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The "swipe" is a particular technique, involving the device and the user, electronically, digitally, timings, offset, displacements, speed, pressure, etc. A lot more complex a scenario than a digital "promise". An "API" can be 1 method / call; or thousands; or a subset; or a hyper-set; ... We could start by eliminating "text speak" which has been piggy backing on a known language. Or make them pay a royalty.
It was only in wine that he laid down no limit for himself, but he did not allow himself to be confused by it. ― Confucian Analects: Rules of Confucius about his food
Gerry Schmitz wrote:
The "swipe" is
Thanks for correcting me and giving me the correct word in such a nice way ;)
M.D.V. ;) If something has a solution... Why do we have to worry about?. If it has no solution... For what reason do we have to worry about? Help me to understand what I'm saying, and I'll explain it better to you Rating helpful answers is nice, but saying thanks can be even nicer.
