Will Bubble put a lot of web programmers out of work?
-
The "duhvelopers" who're at risk from those things are the ones asking the facepalmingly stupid questions on QA and SO. Perhaps if their jobs are deleted, we won't have to keep deleting their doomed cries for help.
Did you ever see history portrayed as an old man with a wise brow and pulseless heart, weighing all things in the balance of reason? Is not rather the genius of history like an eternal, imploring maiden, full of fire, with a burning heart and flaming soul, humanly warm and humanly beautiful? --Zachris Topelius Training a telescope on one’s own belly button will only reveal lint. You like that? You go right on staring at it. I prefer looking at galaxies. -- Sarah Hoyt
Dan Neely wrote:
The "duhvelopers" who're at risk from those things are the ones asking the facepalmingly stupid questions on QA and SO
Not true at all. There is no reason most businesses can't run on low code environments today for the bulk of their apps.
Social Media - A platform that makes it easier for the crazies to find each other. Everyone is born right handed. Only the strongest overcome it. Fight for left-handed rights and hand equality.
-
Here's the kicker not generally considered: People, like us, here (in the CP Lounge, of course) see these as more or less template driven websites (don't we already have that?) and there certainly seems to be a threat. Except for one small thing: And that small thing is the aptitude of these people to even thing about doing anything in the least bit technical. Damn - they have a hard to doing arithmetic. If there sites' to be more than a personal FauxBook then they'll need connectivity and such. Knowing what to store. Knowing what to retrieve. Etc etc etc. My experience has found most people dumb as stick when it comes to doing anything beyond fondling their cell phones and calling themselves tech-savvy. Boilerplate websites are already readily available and free - they don't concern me in the least. The only business I'd suspect will be lost is that craved by those hacks, slightly higher on the food chain, who had been their 'contractor' for website building.
"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein
"If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010
-
No, it won't. The bigger issue at hand is the world is pushing STEM and technology on EVERYONE, and the majority of people that try it, fail, and fail miserably. They are unable to grok it, let alone implement it for a living. So, now they are trying to come up with technologies where the masses can do technology, without technology. This will fail and fail big time. Our jobs are not in jeopardy. Don't feed the job monster. Everyone is going to be alright. Also, pushing the need for the entire world to be proficient at technology is un-realistic, and 100% politically motivated on every level.
-
I remember when everyone was going to get rich raising Chinchillas. Or selling someone else's stuff (e.g. web templates).
It was only in wine that he laid down no limit for himself, but he did not allow himself to be confused by it. ― Confucian Analects: Rules of Confucius about his food
-
Ok with great skepticism, I tried it. i put on my small business technophobe hat and set out to recreate the web app I have running in the debugger right now. Nope. I got confused from the get go. Try as they might they will NEVER replace the programmer.
-
Low code and no code environments are often made fun of on this site. I've actually used a low-code environment and yes, developers should be concerned. Adapt or die. They are incredibly powerful and not hard to learn. But, somebody still has to write the low-code environments. That will always exist. But at some point the job of "programmer" will be flooded in the market and salaries will begin to drop. Unless you specialize in something that can't be moved to low-code. This is one reason I'm building a farm. :thumbsup::cool: [Edit]Only a few responses in and my point is already proven. [/Edit] :doh:
Social Media - A platform that makes it easier for the crazies to find each other. Everyone is born right handed. Only the strongest overcome it. Fight for left-handed rights and hand equality.
ZurdoDev wrote:
This is one reason I'm building a farm. :thumbsup:
That's a new idea! Grow your software on a field. :-) And now, please pass me the algorithmic cabbage.
I have lived with several Zen masters - all of them were cats. His last invention was an evil Lasagna. It didn't kill anyone, and it actually tasted pretty good.
-
These questions existed before MS Access made the promise. The question is over twenty years old. We heard about the semantical web and seen it fail. I'm thinking about stopping with programming. I think I may be happier shoveling muck and leave the programming part for those that learned C# in two weeks. As the one who crippled "Exceptional Magic" by putting out a free version; the one that caused a 14k euro bug and unpaid overtime for three people. Yup, I'm quitting programming.
Bastard Programmer from Hell :suss: "If you just follow the bacon Eddy, wherever it leads you, then you won't have to think about politics." -- Some Bell.
I saw a documentation about a developer who ran off to become a bush pilot in Africa. I would try that before shoveling muck.
I have lived with several Zen masters - all of them were cats. His last invention was an evil Lasagna. It didn't kill anyone, and it actually tasted pretty good.
-
Here's the kicker not generally considered: People, like us, here (in the CP Lounge, of course) see these as more or less template driven websites (don't we already have that?) and there certainly seems to be a threat. Except for one small thing: And that small thing is the aptitude of these people to even thing about doing anything in the least bit technical. Damn - they have a hard to doing arithmetic. If there sites' to be more than a personal FauxBook then they'll need connectivity and such. Knowing what to store. Knowing what to retrieve. Etc etc etc. My experience has found most people dumb as stick when it comes to doing anything beyond fondling their cell phones and calling themselves tech-savvy. Boilerplate websites are already readily available and free - they don't concern me in the least. The only business I'd suspect will be lost is that craved by those hacks, slightly higher on the food chain, who had been their 'contractor' for website building.
"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein
"If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010
W∴ Balboos, GHB wrote:
My experience has found most people dumb as stick when it comes to doing anything beyond fondling their cell phones and calling themselves tech-savvy.
How arrogant! These are poor ill people who need a brain pacemaker. Without it they would be reduced to mental vegetables.
I have lived with several Zen masters - all of them were cats. His last invention was an evil Lasagna. It didn't kill anyone, and it actually tasted pretty good.
-
I saw a documentation about a developer who ran off to become a bush pilot in Africa. I would try that before shoveling muck.
I have lived with several Zen masters - all of them were cats. His last invention was an evil Lasagna. It didn't kill anyone, and it actually tasted pretty good.
CodeWraith wrote:
I saw a documentation about a developer who ran off to become a bush pilot in Africa. I would try that before shoveling muck.
I been in a plane, and still can't believe being in an aluminum tin can going at that speed. And, where's muck, there's brass.
Bastard Programmer from Hell :suss: "If you just follow the bacon Eddy, wherever it leads you, then you won't have to think about politics." -- Some Bell.
-
CodeWraith wrote:
I saw a documentation about a developer who ran off to become a bush pilot in Africa. I would try that before shoveling muck.
I been in a plane, and still can't believe being in an aluminum tin can going at that speed. And, where's muck, there's brass.
Bastard Programmer from Hell :suss: "If you just follow the bacon Eddy, wherever it leads you, then you won't have to think about politics." -- Some Bell.
Real men fly helicopters. Much more fun to fly and lots of useful capabilities when you are in an area without much infrastructure, like runways. If those things would not cost so much to operate...
I have lived with several Zen masters - all of them were cats. His last invention was an evil Lasagna. It didn't kill anyone, and it actually tasted pretty good.
-
Real men fly helicopters. Much more fun to fly and lots of useful capabilities when you are in an area without much infrastructure, like runways. If those things would not cost so much to operate...
I have lived with several Zen masters - all of them were cats. His last invention was an evil Lasagna. It didn't kill anyone, and it actually tasted pretty good.
CodeWraith wrote:
Real men fly helicopters
I'm starting to prefer a simpeler life and shoveling shit. Clean some stables. Be useful for once. "Pissonya (Piss On You)" Song Lyrics w/Free MP3 Download[^]
Bastard Programmer from Hell :suss: "If you just follow the bacon Eddy, wherever it leads you, then you won't have to think about politics." -- Some Bell.
-
:laugh: I hadn't even thought about a server one. Pigs of course.
Social Media - A platform that makes it easier for the crazies to find each other. Everyone is born right handed. Only the strongest overcome it. Fight for left-handed rights and hand equality.
Nice... we might have a new provider for bacon wohooo:jig:
M.D.V. ;) If something has a solution... Why do we have to worry about?. If it has no solution... For what reason do we have to worry about? Help me to understand what I'm saying, and I'll explain it better to you Rating helpful answers is nice, but saying thanks can be even nicer.
-
We've heard these arguments before when Machine Code was supplanted by Assembler; when Assembler (1st Generation) was (unsuccessfully) replaced by AutoCoders; then (more successfully) by programming languages (c1957) such as Fortran, Algol and LISP (3rd generation), then by so called 4th Generation tools such as IDEs, Report Generators, etc (c1980), and very unsuccessfully by the Japanese 5th Generation project (again, 1980s). What happens is that the newer ways of working are disdained by existing programmers until they realise that the newer idioms just enable them to code their designs more quickly in a clearer to read and modify syntax. I admit that I have not looked at the new no-code / low-code languages, but my guess will be that traditional programmers will not like them until they try them and find that they make the coding part easier but that the real skill (designing robust algorithms and data structures) still persist.
-
Here's the kicker not generally considered: People, like us, here (in the CP Lounge, of course) see these as more or less template driven websites (don't we already have that?) and there certainly seems to be a threat. Except for one small thing: And that small thing is the aptitude of these people to even thing about doing anything in the least bit technical. Damn - they have a hard to doing arithmetic. If there sites' to be more than a personal FauxBook then they'll need connectivity and such. Knowing what to store. Knowing what to retrieve. Etc etc etc. My experience has found most people dumb as stick when it comes to doing anything beyond fondling their cell phones and calling themselves tech-savvy. Boilerplate websites are already readily available and free - they don't concern me in the least. The only business I'd suspect will be lost is that craved by those hacks, slightly higher on the food chain, who had been their 'contractor' for website building.
"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein
"If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010
You're absolutely right. I have a (very good) client who runs a successful small business (successful in part 'cos I built a bespoke application for them a few years ago, moving them off a creaking Excel-based "system"). Recently we needed to get him signed up to a new hosting provider. It was one I was familiar with, knew the signup, and so wrote a 4-bullet-point step-by-step guide to signing up. (Click this button, choose that service level, click OK, enter your payment details... literally that easy). I got the reply back within about half an hour - "I'm not really that technical - can you do it please" accompanied by full details of the company credit card. Some people are terrified of anything to do with technology - maybe perhaps only in a "work" context, but that's enough - for us.
-
I think it depends on the contexts of the systems these sort of no-code environments are meant to replace. A lot of companies with in-house software have had the web applications designed in a way that's very specific and integrated into business requirements, and a lot of the no-code alternatives simply don't have support for a lot of the back-end logistics. I work for a company specialising in fuel cards, and the in-house software we develop (a web application) is enormous, but specifically we integrate with APIs for different fuel card providers (Shell, BP, etc.) which are enormously complex and simply couldn't be accomplished with a no-code system. Our business looked at replacing our software with several generic CRM packages, but each time they realised that the compatibility and complexity just wasn't there. Unless these no-code environments can provide hugely customisable and complex operations, I don't think there'll be much cause for concern for developers in companies with established systems. It's probably cheaper to maintain the existing systems and have developers augment them than to purchase a whole new system, build it from the ground-up and then have new systems developed which implement the missing features, as well as training staff on how to use and build the no-code platform.
-
I think it depends on the contexts of the systems these sort of no-code environments are meant to replace. A lot of companies with in-house software have had the web applications designed in a way that's very specific and integrated into business requirements, and a lot of the no-code alternatives simply don't have support for a lot of the back-end logistics. I work for a company specialising in fuel cards, and the in-house software we develop (a web application) is enormous, but specifically we integrate with APIs for different fuel card providers (Shell, BP, etc.) which are enormously complex and simply couldn't be accomplished with a no-code system. Our business looked at replacing our software with several generic CRM packages, but each time they realised that the compatibility and complexity just wasn't there. Unless these no-code environments can provide hugely customisable and complex operations, I don't think there'll be much cause for concern for developers in companies with established systems. It's probably cheaper to maintain the existing systems and have developers augment them than to purchase a whole new system, build it from the ground-up and then have new systems developed which implement the missing features, as well as training staff on how to use and build the no-code platform.
Chris Copeland wrote:
A lot of companies with in-house software have had the web applications designed in a way that's very specific and integrated into business requirements
Chris Copeland wrote:
can provide hugely customisable and complex operations,
Exactly.
-
Obligatory webcomic link: The 'no-code' dream… | CommitStrip[^]
-
First, it's yahoo finance. Second, no. As others have pointed out, there is still the fundamental foundation of what drives these engines. About 25-30 years ago, I was doing X Windows development. I had some exposure to a Windows program, and I was simply appalled at how you handled event handling. Along that time, Power Builder came along, and I was impressed with how easy it was to build applications. The improvement in productivity was noticable, and when I voiced my concerns about getting put out of business, the tech laughed and said: "We've found that when you use a tool like this, the users want more and more. Your work load will go up." Truth. I see low code and no code environments affecting some applications. But nothing earth shattering.
Charlie Gilley <italic>Stuck in a dysfunctional matrix from which I must escape... "Where liberty dwells, there is my country." B. Franklin, 1783 “They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.” BF, 1759
-
Real men fly helicopters. Much more fun to fly and lots of useful capabilities when you are in an area without much infrastructure, like runways. If those things would not cost so much to operate...
I have lived with several Zen masters - all of them were cats. His last invention was an evil Lasagna. It didn't kill anyone, and it actually tasted pretty good.
My son flies a Twin Otter in Northwest Territories, Canada. That thing can land on water, tundra, snow/ice and runways - and gets far better distance than a helicopter ever could. He loves his job!
Outside of a dog, a book is a man's best friend; inside of a dog, it's too dark to read. -- Groucho Marx
-
COBOL jobs are on the decline!? The sky must be falling. Only, no. Some COBOL salaries are outrageous now because even though there are few jobs, there are even fewer folks to fill them. Want to take your legacy system to the cloud? Good luck on your hunt for a COBOL + cloud guy. Maybe you can just use Bubble. No. No, programming jobs won't be disappearing, they won't be doing anything but growing both in number and scope for the next 20-50 years. Erik Brynjolfsson hit the nail far more squarely on the head. The specifics of what problem you solve with the code you write? Sure. That will change, even regardless of no-code/low-code. But you think no-code/low-code will supplant the need for developers? Want to buy a bridge? Lol.