Somebody please explain the importance/use of Abundant Numbers
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Assuming there are 10 people in a train, and 15 of them go out in a train station, 5 must go in at the next station for the train to arrive empty. Oh nevermind, I read abusing numbers.
Is the train perfectly frictionless, and the people perfectly spherical? Asking for a physics friend.
KeithBarrow.net[^] - It might not be very good, but at least it is free!
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Is the train perfectly frictionless, and the people perfectly spherical? Asking for a physics friend.
KeithBarrow.net[^] - It might not be very good, but at least it is free!
Of course, and it travels at the speed of light.
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The children of a relative in the UK are being taught Abundant Numbers and mum is having a tough time keeping up. The theories are almost 2000 years old. I understand how to work out the various (numerous) derivatives but what worldly purpose do they serve?? I have lived many years without requiring any abundance (other than a paycheck) It seems almost as crazy as the Common Core Math they teach here in the USA. Anyway, I would like to understand the importance/use of Abundant Numbers.
Live long and prosper
CoolTeddyBear wrote:
I understand how to work out the various (numerous) derivatives but what worldly purpose do they serve??
In all honesty I think the main "worldly purpose" was for Michael Gove (who re-jigged the curriculum some time ago) to claim to Conservative Party members that he'd introduced a more traditional/stricter curriculum. Home schooling under lockdown has starkly revealed how bad the curriculum has become, much more wrote learning than in my day, but without the added depth previous generations seem to have been exposed to (if the past exam papers I looked at in my teens were anything to go by). My 6 year old's English work spent weeks categorising words into weirdly fine (and largely useless) groups - by all means make sure there are words to change how often a verb happens (or even adverbs generally) but what use is being able to split them down into adverb types at that age? Answer - it looks like proper education to a certain group of people.
KeithBarrow.net[^] - It might not be very good, but at least it is free!
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Jörgen Andersson wrote:
The only reason we use base10 is that we have ten fingers.
I've heard this stated many times but is there any evidence for it? As we only have unique symbols for the numbers 0 to 9, might it not have been invented by a nine fingered person? (Insert your preferred locale for in-breeding jokes here) - which just happens to work out better for us to do arithmetic. I've always found it interesting that our system of writing uses a different approach to the way our fingers work. If I want to give someone the sign for ten I'll hold up all ten fingers but to write it down, I have to use a second symbol ("1") followed by an arguably redundant zero, when it could have been "0A" - if we borrow from hex. Of course, if you used e.g. "A" to represent the number after 9, then you hit all sorts of interesting questions related to zeroes e.g. should it be written "1A" or "20"?
No proofs but plenty of evidence. :) 1) The word for digit comes from the latin word for finger. B) The roman symbol for 5 is a V which symbolizes a hand, and the symbol for 10 is an X which is two hands. Interestingly the exeption that the Babylonian sexagesimal system would be, also has symbols for 1-9 and 10-50 and then a new symbol for 60. There are obviously plenty of exeptions, but the main reason for using base10 is that we have a built in calculator in our hands. Can recommend reading the book The Universal History of Numbers: From Prehistory to the Invention of the Computer[^] by Georges Ifrah if you're interested.
Wrong is evil and must be defeated. - Jeff Ello
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No proofs but plenty of evidence. :) 1) The word for digit comes from the latin word for finger. B) The roman symbol for 5 is a V which symbolizes a hand, and the symbol for 10 is an X which is two hands. Interestingly the exeption that the Babylonian sexagesimal system would be, also has symbols for 1-9 and 10-50 and then a new symbol for 60. There are obviously plenty of exeptions, but the main reason for using base10 is that we have a built in calculator in our hands. Can recommend reading the book The Universal History of Numbers: From Prehistory to the Invention of the Computer[^] by Georges Ifrah if you're interested.
Wrong is evil and must be defeated. - Jeff Ello
Interesting. Did you happen to see the episode of QI where they claimed that Roman numerals were only very rarely used by the Romans and their popularity is MUCH more recent encouraged by the BBC and others to make dates less readable? I know nothing of this so merely repeating their claim (they allege it was a BBC policy so that repeated programmes were harder to spot if the date was flashed up quickly in Roman numerals!)
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Interesting. Did you happen to see the episode of QI where they claimed that Roman numerals were only very rarely used by the Romans and their popularity is MUCH more recent encouraged by the BBC and others to make dates less readable? I know nothing of this so merely repeating their claim (they allege it was a BBC policy so that repeated programmes were harder to spot if the date was flashed up quickly in Roman numerals!)
No, I didn't see it, but if that's the case, what did they use instead? As far as I understand, roman numerals were pushed away by arabic numerals around 900 AD. I know they have found Roman Abacuses (Or Abacii? What is the plural actually?) several times that was obviously built according to the roman system. But that doesn't rule out anything. As so often there could be different system in use in different social layers.
Wrong is evil and must be defeated. - Jeff Ello
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No, I didn't see it, but if that's the case, what did they use instead? As far as I understand, roman numerals were pushed away by arabic numerals around 900 AD. I know they have found Roman Abacuses (Or Abacii? What is the plural actually?) several times that was obviously built according to the roman system. But that doesn't rule out anything. As so often there could be different system in use in different social layers.
Wrong is evil and must be defeated. - Jeff Ello
Sorry, only had it on as "background" and wasn't paying proper attention. They also said that e.g. four might just as often be written a IIII or IV, similarly VIIII for nine. Both systems were popular.
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Sorry, only had it on as "background" and wasn't paying proper attention. They also said that e.g. four might just as often be written a IIII or IV, similarly VIIII for nine. Both systems were popular.
Ok, makes sense.
Wrong is evil and must be defeated. - Jeff Ello
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The only reason we use base10 is that we have ten fingers. (Well except for the French and Danes amongst others, no not the number of fingers, but they both partially use base20 in their spoken language) The Babylonians appreciated abundant numbers and used base60 instead of base10, or the Sexagesimal system, this is where we got our minutes and seconds from. I don't know why they decided to divide a day into twelve hours instead though. :doh:
Wrong is evil and must be defeated. - Jeff Ello
Jörgen Andersson wrote:
I don't know why they decided to divide a day into twelve hours instead though
Huh, and I thought a day was 24 hours .. Oh well :)
Live long and prosper
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A few years ago I went by train from Manchester airport to Leeds, it was a weird experience that now got an explanation. :sigh:
Wrong is evil and must be defeated. - Jeff Ello
Jörgen Andersson wrote:
it was a weird experience that now got an explanation
according to wikipedia "An abundant number which is not a semiperfect number is called a weird number" perhaps that also applies to experiences :) I am bemused by quasiperfect numbers... "An abundant number with abundance 1 is called a quasiperfect number, although none have yet been found"
Live long and prosper
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Jörgen Andersson wrote:
I don't know why they decided to divide a day into twelve hours instead though
Huh, and I thought a day was 24 hours .. Oh well :)
Live long and prosper
Nah, that's a day and a night. Meanwhile I found an explanation (an explanation, maybe not the explanation) Apparently the Egyptians divided the day into ten work hours, plus an extra hour each in the morning and the evening for eating and food preparations and stuff. Haven't a clue if it's correct, but I'll keep looking. :)
Wrong is evil and must be defeated. - Jeff Ello