Freelance work and freedom
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Yes, but I'm not the primary bread winner. Some months it's very little work, and some months there's a lot. I have the same issues you do. It makes freelancing more difficult in terms of that work/life boundary because you don't typically have an office to go to, just for starters. You know, if I were you, I'd A) consider contracting, which is kind of a happy medium. That way you can take a 3-6 month project and then take whatever break you need to or can afford. B) consider taking freelance work on the side. Start with something small. If you have some tech writing abilities consider working with ContentLab.io and producing a couple of articles. They work with people who have day jobs all the time. Post on upwork (fka odesk), and you can be very selective about the work you take. Once you get yourself a bread and butter client you'll probably be *forced* to consider quitting your day job, and IMO it's a much better position to be in than hoping it works out. Sometimes freelance works, and other times it flops.
Real programmers use butterflies
Thanks :) This is very useful, I will check out ContentLab and Upwork and see what they look like. I am considering contracting. In fact I am actually considering even retraining to another profession at the moment! Something that would be more part-time able. I am the bread winner at the moment, but my partner does have a full time job (which doesn't pay a lot, but it's quite secure) so I guess I don't necessarily have to be the bread winner forever. I will see. But again, thanks for your tips :) really useful to get all options down on the table before I make any kind of move.
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doubleplus unfunny!
Freedom is the freedom to say that two plus two make four. If that is granted, all else follows. -- 6079 Smith W.
where is your sense of humor? that was triple plus funny.
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Dycz wrote:
so that they can work very little?
Dycz wrote:
I'm somewhat sick and tired of working for a company and having to show committment
you have a few options, some are illegal, some may get you a venereal disease or two or three, but all should provide you the freedom, and reward you are looking for with little effort or work.
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Before going freelance, there are a few points to remember: 1. When calculating your current gross income, remember to add in perks such as health insurance paid by your employer, matching pension funds, etc. 2. When calculating what you must charge as a freelancer, you must add in those costs, the cost of any additional taxes you must pay (e.g. in some countries the equivalent of Social Security is paid partly by the employer and partly by the employee; freelancers must pay the entire sum), and allow for the probability that you may not be working 100% of the time. 3. DON'T FORGET to continue depositing into any pension fund you may have. 4. It takes time to get your name put around, and even longer to build up a loyal clientele. Make sure you have enough savings to survive this startup period. Good luck!
Freedom is the freedom to say that two plus two make four. If that is granted, all else follows. -- 6079 Smith W.
Thanks :) Yes, I suspected there might be quite a lot of work to do in terms of defining how much I should quote for jobs. And yes, I have considered perks and stuff - although I am in the UK which at least means the health insurance side is trivial *for now* state health care is free and good quality. Thanks for pointing all of this out, though.
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Dycz wrote:
so that they can work very little?
Dycz wrote:
I'm somewhat sick and tired of working for a company and having to show committment
you have a few options, some are illegal, some may get you a venereal disease or two or three, but all should provide you the freedom, and reward you are looking for with little effort or work.
My kid sister says it's OK so +5 from me. :)
"the debugger doesn't tell me anything because this code compiles just fine" - random QA comment "Facebook is where you tell lies to your friends. Twitter is where you tell the truth to strangers." - chriselst "I don't drink any more... then again, I don't drink any less." - Mike Mullikins uncle
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My kid sister says it's OK so +5 from me. :)
"the debugger doesn't tell me anything because this code compiles just fine" - random QA comment "Facebook is where you tell lies to your friends. Twitter is where you tell the truth to strangers." - chriselst "I don't drink any more... then again, I don't drink any less." - Mike Mullikins uncle
some people on this site are way too sensitive and fragile.
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some people on this site are way too sensitive and fragile.
Agreed.
"the debugger doesn't tell me anything because this code compiles just fine" - random QA comment "Facebook is where you tell lies to your friends. Twitter is where you tell the truth to strangers." - chriselst "I don't drink any more... then again, I don't drink any less." - Mike Mullikins uncle
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My kid sister says it's OK so +5 from me. :)
"the debugger doesn't tell me anything because this code compiles just fine" - random QA comment "Facebook is where you tell lies to your friends. Twitter is where you tell the truth to strangers." - chriselst "I don't drink any more... then again, I don't drink any less." - Mike Mullikins uncle
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Wait until your kid sister
Quote:
some are illegal, some may get you a venereal disease or two or three, but all should provide you the freedom, and reward you are looking for with little effort or work.
:doh:
Jeeze, lighten up a little bit. It wasn't politics OR vaccine related, so how bad could it be?
"the debugger doesn't tell me anything because this code compiles just fine" - random QA comment "Facebook is where you tell lies to your friends. Twitter is where you tell the truth to strangers." - chriselst "I don't drink any more... then again, I don't drink any less." - Mike Mullikins uncle
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where is your sense of humor? that was triple plus funny.
1. I refer you to the [Posting Rules for the Lounge](https://www.codeproject.com/Lounge.aspx?msg=3945863#xx3945863xx), specifically rules 1 & 5, 2. A professional colleague asked for advice about becoming a freelance programmer. Do you really believe that suggesting illegal activities or prostitution is in any way appropriate? 3. If you posted this in the Soap Box, it might pass muster. In the Lounge? Definitely not!
Freedom is the freedom to say that two plus two make four. If that is granted, all else follows. -- 6079 Smith W.
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Dycz wrote:
so that they can work very little?
Dycz wrote:
I'm somewhat sick and tired of working for a company and having to show committment
you have a few options, some are illegal, some may get you a venereal disease or two or three, but all should provide you the freedom, and reward you are looking for with little effort or work.
In seriousness, people think that kind of work is easy. It's not. And it's dangerous, especially for women.
Real programmers use butterflies
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Hi all, hope everyone is having a good day :) I was wondering, is there anyone on here that does freelance work so that they can work very little? I'm somewhat sick and tired of working for a company and having to show committment - I am not very good at drawing a clear line to separate work and life and I am also not very good at pushing to do mainly stuff I enjoy at work. So, lately I've been toying with the idea of dropping my day job and get my freedom back to define exactly how many days a week I want to work for money and how many days I want to just code, or just be with my kids or help out my local community. But I'm not sure this is actually doable, without starving! Thanks for sharing your thoughts :) Nicole
I went freelance 25+ years ago, and have never regretted it. The first 10 years I was mainly "bum-on-seat" contracting through agencies. Pay was good, work was continuous, but you were treated like s**t and expected to be worth every last penny and many, many more. Managed to first go part-time remote, then part-time fully remote, before such a thing was "a thing" and it gave me freedom to find other smaller clients. Got lots of very small gigs on Rent-a-Coder, VWorker, Freelancer.com, PeoplePerHour etc. and that's much more interesting, and you learn a lot more too. Got some small gigs become very big long-term relationships. In my case that was very good for the income, very bad for the stress. When you're freelancing there's no-one else to share the load with, especially if you're working with small businesses and you ARE the IT department. But the satisfaction can be very high. I semi-retired a few years ago (when I was 58), and am "just" supporting a handful of clients whose businesses depend on my systems. In theory I should be working about half-a-day a week and living off past earnings. But as is always the way, they often ALL come up with urgent issues (either support issues, or enhancements) at once; I currently have 3 clients ALL with major projects competing for my time. In winter I don't care too much (esp. in lockdown) but I'd be mightily fed up if this happened in the summer. (It has done in the past). I remember family holidays in Iceland and remote parts of Scotland, trying to get a signal to log on over RDP and fix some production glitch or other. Doesn't go down too well!
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Hi all, hope everyone is having a good day :) I was wondering, is there anyone on here that does freelance work so that they can work very little? I'm somewhat sick and tired of working for a company and having to show committment - I am not very good at drawing a clear line to separate work and life and I am also not very good at pushing to do mainly stuff I enjoy at work. So, lately I've been toying with the idea of dropping my day job and get my freedom back to define exactly how many days a week I want to work for money and how many days I want to just code, or just be with my kids or help out my local community. But I'm not sure this is actually doable, without starving! Thanks for sharing your thoughts :) Nicole
Dycz wrote:
anyone on here that does freelance work so that they can work very little?
Make sure you mention that last point to potential contractorsees; I'm sure they'll find that very endearing and will immediately move you to the top of the candidates list. On perhaps a more serious note, if you find a way, be sure to let us all know.
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Hi all, hope everyone is having a good day :) I was wondering, is there anyone on here that does freelance work so that they can work very little? I'm somewhat sick and tired of working for a company and having to show committment - I am not very good at drawing a clear line to separate work and life and I am also not very good at pushing to do mainly stuff I enjoy at work. So, lately I've been toying with the idea of dropping my day job and get my freedom back to define exactly how many days a week I want to work for money and how many days I want to just code, or just be with my kids or help out my local community. But I'm not sure this is actually doable, without starving! Thanks for sharing your thoughts :) Nicole
The freelance landscape has changed ... you're now up against "code factories" that will try to outbid you at every turn. Which of course means everyone else expects you to match their (cheap) rates. Not that these factories are much good ... they just pollute the landscape. But, you do need to make yourself "available" ... so you check out all the sites and write a better "advertisement" ... in about as few words as possible (most "prospects" have a very short attention span). Your biggest headache will be from "tire kickers" / time wasters and how to spot them. And an "attractive" profile picture can get you lots of the wrong attention too.
It was only in wine that he laid down no limit for himself, but he did not allow himself to be confused by it. ― Confucian Analects: Rules of Confucius about his food
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1. I refer you to the [Posting Rules for the Lounge](https://www.codeproject.com/Lounge.aspx?msg=3945863#xx3945863xx), specifically rules 1 & 5, 2. A professional colleague asked for advice about becoming a freelance programmer. Do you really believe that suggesting illegal activities or prostitution is in any way appropriate? 3. If you posted this in the Soap Box, it might pass muster. In the Lounge? Definitely not!
Freedom is the freedom to say that two plus two make four. If that is granted, all else follows. -- 6079 Smith W.
:zzz:
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Hi all, hope everyone is having a good day :) I was wondering, is there anyone on here that does freelance work so that they can work very little? I'm somewhat sick and tired of working for a company and having to show committment - I am not very good at drawing a clear line to separate work and life and I am also not very good at pushing to do mainly stuff I enjoy at work. So, lately I've been toying with the idea of dropping my day job and get my freedom back to define exactly how many days a week I want to work for money and how many days I want to just code, or just be with my kids or help out my local community. But I'm not sure this is actually doable, without starving! Thanks for sharing your thoughts :) Nicole
I am freelancing and I work at least 10 hours a day while working at customer companies, and it's not strange working Saturdays and Sundays. When working at home I usually work a little bit more. Of course, time between projects, ... it's there (sometimes) of course sometimes you have more than one project running at the same time and phone calls, mails and deadlines can be tricky. Given I work in the automation industry, I must have a big insurance that covers me against the risk of injuring someone or to destroy part of a machine I am working on. And don't get me started of all the @#$%& paperwork needed to be able to enter a company. You must be ready to have a lawyer, someone to help you doing accounting, all the paperwork... Get somewhere to store all your work safely complying all the needs of your customers... Make contracts with them that are nice enough for them not to be scared but at the same time that protect your ass in case problems appear. And about commitment, if you are a freelancer, you will get the work only based in 2 things: you know how to do it and they don't or they are so overworked that need external power to finish in their deadlines. Given you will be more expensive than any of their workers (raw cost) be prepared to show the most commitment you can or be prepared to lose that customer. Freelancing is nice, I love my work (hate the paperwork to enter companies as it's a super tedious repetitive task and sometimes you end discussing with a guy if a document is signed or not ^^¡), and I can say I'm very happy with it, but it's not "I work a few hours, money comes in and all is super duper" you have to work hard. Hope this helps and best of lucks with your decision and future.
www.robotecnik.com[^] - robots, CNC and PLC programming
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Hi all, hope everyone is having a good day :) I was wondering, is there anyone on here that does freelance work so that they can work very little? I'm somewhat sick and tired of working for a company and having to show committment - I am not very good at drawing a clear line to separate work and life and I am also not very good at pushing to do mainly stuff I enjoy at work. So, lately I've been toying with the idea of dropping my day job and get my freedom back to define exactly how many days a week I want to work for money and how many days I want to just code, or just be with my kids or help out my local community. But I'm not sure this is actually doable, without starving! Thanks for sharing your thoughts :) Nicole
Unfortunately for you, employers are looking for developers who can commit, because they themselves have deadlines and want stuff done so you might have a hard time finding work with your attitude*. In fact, being freelance may be hard work because you can be laid off at any time (depending on the contract, but you have a lot less security as regular employees). You should also get a bit of savings for when you're "in between jobs" (a.k.a. unemployed). When you go freelance and want to keep your current salary you'll have to earn roughly about 1.5x what you earn now because you'll lose paid vacation and sick leave, any retirement your employer is saving for you, travel allowance and any other perks, while you'll also have to get some additional insurances and other costs. And that's assuming you have a job. When you're laid off, your salary drops to 0 and at the end of the month you're an entire month short that you'll have to make up for in other months. Whatever you've read, there's no such thing as "free money" :sigh: Honestly, if you have to ask, I don't think freelance was meant for you. Maybe you could work less for your current employer instead? Or, if you have a partner who earns enough for both, you could give it a shot and see where things end up. * I'm currently (temporarily) doing what you want, so it can be done, but I've had months where I made below minimum wage and I've had months where I worked 50-60 hours a week. The fact of the matter is that I'm as free as my customers allow me to be and "true freedom" comes at the cost of worrying about work and income and can't endure.
Best, Sander Azure DevOps Succinctly (free eBook) Azure Serverless Succinctly (free eBook) Migrating Apps to the Cloud with Azure arrgh.js - Bringing LINQ to JavaScript
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Hi all, hope everyone is having a good day :) I was wondering, is there anyone on here that does freelance work so that they can work very little? I'm somewhat sick and tired of working for a company and having to show committment - I am not very good at drawing a clear line to separate work and life and I am also not very good at pushing to do mainly stuff I enjoy at work. So, lately I've been toying with the idea of dropping my day job and get my freedom back to define exactly how many days a week I want to work for money and how many days I want to just code, or just be with my kids or help out my local community. But I'm not sure this is actually doable, without starving! Thanks for sharing your thoughts :) Nicole
A few things you may also consider, if you are the primary bread winner forget it you do not have the attitude to succeed. Your cashflow is going to be erratic, no that is an understatement it can be horrifying when a client wants to pay you on 90 days or you contact a small business client only to be told they don't have the funds this month. You are going to spend a LOT of time chasing money that is owed to you, assuming you actually get some clients. The paperwork is also going to take up 30% of your time, freelancing is not just about coding it is running a business and with your predilection for doing the minimum you are unlikely to succeed. The only benefit to being a contractor is that you may be able to accept only short term jobs, you will still be expected to work a full week, every week the contract is on force unless you can negotiate a different deal.
Never underestimate the power of human stupidity - RAH I'm old. I know stuff - JSOP
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Unfortunately for you, employers are looking for developers who can commit, because they themselves have deadlines and want stuff done so you might have a hard time finding work with your attitude*. In fact, being freelance may be hard work because you can be laid off at any time (depending on the contract, but you have a lot less security as regular employees). You should also get a bit of savings for when you're "in between jobs" (a.k.a. unemployed). When you go freelance and want to keep your current salary you'll have to earn roughly about 1.5x what you earn now because you'll lose paid vacation and sick leave, any retirement your employer is saving for you, travel allowance and any other perks, while you'll also have to get some additional insurances and other costs. And that's assuming you have a job. When you're laid off, your salary drops to 0 and at the end of the month you're an entire month short that you'll have to make up for in other months. Whatever you've read, there's no such thing as "free money" :sigh: Honestly, if you have to ask, I don't think freelance was meant for you. Maybe you could work less for your current employer instead? Or, if you have a partner who earns enough for both, you could give it a shot and see where things end up. * I'm currently (temporarily) doing what you want, so it can be done, but I've had months where I made below minimum wage and I've had months where I worked 50-60 hours a week. The fact of the matter is that I'm as free as my customers allow me to be and "true freedom" comes at the cost of worrying about work and income and can't endure.
Best, Sander Azure DevOps Succinctly (free eBook) Azure Serverless Succinctly (free eBook) Migrating Apps to the Cloud with Azure arrgh.js - Bringing LINQ to JavaScript
Thanks Sander. I know what you mean, that's exactly why I wanted to ask the question in the first place, just to find out whether by freelancing and taking on just one project or two one could still make some little money. The fact with committment is that actually I do show committment and I can't help but wanting to commit, because I understand that my employer has deadlines and I don't want to let my team down. But at this point in my life I can see that I'm missing out on some many things, by being this committed. It sounds like I should not consider freelancing but rather I should focus on changing my career to something entirely different and just keep coding for fun in my spare time.
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A few things you may also consider, if you are the primary bread winner forget it you do not have the attitude to succeed. Your cashflow is going to be erratic, no that is an understatement it can be horrifying when a client wants to pay you on 90 days or you contact a small business client only to be told they don't have the funds this month. You are going to spend a LOT of time chasing money that is owed to you, assuming you actually get some clients. The paperwork is also going to take up 30% of your time, freelancing is not just about coding it is running a business and with your predilection for doing the minimum you are unlikely to succeed. The only benefit to being a contractor is that you may be able to accept only short term jobs, you will still be expected to work a full week, every week the contract is on force unless you can negotiate a different deal.
Never underestimate the power of human stupidity - RAH I'm old. I know stuff - JSOP
