Do programmers have a life? Because I feel like I don't have a life anymore
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First of all, software is competitive. My husband is in nursing school and its even more competitive than that. Some fields are just like that - you either have to be hungry for it, or it will eat you instead. Second, and this is personal - not universal - but I don't know how far someone can get either in this field or in another highly competitive field if they don't love doing it. If you feel trapped is it just because you're currently overwhelmed or is it because you're not enjoying the craft? Sort that question out for yourself. Figure out the "why" of you feeling trapped, because the why is so important here. It seems like - based on my takeaway - that you the love the craft, but your current situation is overwhelming you. My suggestion is - if the stress is making you sick try to reorganize what's left of your life to give you some downtime, and if that isn't working or possible, maybe get a therapist, but do whatever you must to tough it out *and* take care of yourself at the same time. Life gets hard, but that makes us or breaks us. Don't let it break you, or force you into making choices you'll regret later. And don't be afraid to ask for help if you need it. Also don't be afraid to act decisively - if you need to get out of the field - even if only for awhile, get out. I have. But don't act from a place of fear or anger and you're less likely to regret the decision. Don't worry so much about social isolation. Your formative years are mostly behind you. If you already were socially awkward (welcome to our club! :laugh: ) you're going to stay that way, and if you weren't, software won't change that. I've known a few extremely sociable developers in the field. The extroverted ones are less common, but the field doesn't turn them into social rejects. They usually wind up being the de facto liason between the software team and management, and because of that can often find themselves becoming lead devs, and sometimes even CTOs (and awesome CTOs at that, in my experience) Just my $0.02
Real programmers use butterflies
Thanks for reply :-D I appreciate it :) Actually It would be nice to go to a therapist and bore someone with my life stories, but lucky as I am ;) I have my code project therapists :laugh: who voluntairly read this can of garbage that I sometimes(or maybe often :laugh: ) poor out on the forum for whole world to see :laugh: By the way... Do you know how much those therapists cost? ;P :laugh: I'm a poor student :(( I rather write everything down here because it's for free :laugh: Yeah, I really enjoy programming and even enjoy company of other programmers, mostly behind thecomputer screen :laugh: but still I feel like I belong into that field and group of people, but maybe I should take a rest... maybe I'm to obsessive and get easily burn out X| But I feel better today after yesterday's whining.
honey the codewitch wrote:
If you already were socially awkward (welcome to our club! :laugh: )
I love you fellow programmers :rolleyes: I First time in my life I feel likeI belong somewhere :-D
honey the codewitch wrote:
Just my $0.02
What do you mean? :-D Is it the bill for your counseling? :-D
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At the risk of sounding harsh, I don't think many of us "have a life" any more. I haven't "met with friends" for a very long time, but it's nothing to do with IT. I expect 90% of the world population is asking questions like "what's it all for?", "why do I work so hard?" when there's precious little way to enjoy the fruits of our labours. I'm semi-retired (trying to be more so) but yes, for me, working 3 hours a day is also "resting". I would say before retirement, an 8-hour day was also an "easy" day, and back when in college (not IT) again, an 8-hour study day is an easy day. And as Nelek says, if you don't like study / learning then working in IT is not for you. If I'd not continuously been studying and learning, I'd still be writing out Cobol instructions on coding sheets and waiting for the punch girls to enter it onto the cards. Oh, and 14971499, do change your username to something a bit more memorable! :-) Good luck - but it's up to you to decide if you want to persevere or give up and, [desperately trying to think of a job that doesn't require ongoing learning]... sweep the streets?
Thank's for your reply :) My classmates study probably even more than me and I heard many people say that they study programming for at least 8 hours. I always had good self-discipline( at least I thought so before I started college) and thought I was a hard worker, but now... :sigh: I feel that I can't compete with others, I feel lazy compared to them, like there are always someone who work harder and longer than me and I can't really stand out in any way :(( I never was a top student, I was bad student but hard working. Now, I'm neither excelling anyone in grades or my hard work and I feel like my special skill is gone and there's nothing left :(( And I try to work harder, but I can't... or I can but it will mean that my life is totaly over, there will be nothing left :(( That's why I ask if this is how other programmer's life look like? Will this rat race end at some point? :( But yes, you are right. Most of people work in that way in almost every field. This is modern day slavery :(
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well... with the current pandemic many people have no life! :O if you don't find this enjoyable while studying, perhaps it's not for you? I always find programming easy! ^_^ (to be fair I didnt study IT, I have a Physics PhD instead, and was enjoying doing numerical simulation of physical system...) Programming is a bit addictive I found... BUt then you are nothing like trapped, if you give in to the addiction you quickly master you subject so well than you can take any brwak you like! :D If it's not the case, perhaps it's not for you... Other than that, yeah for easily 20 years I had the feeling there was always much I needed to learn and known... but now I am finally on the other side.. I still have to learn, but it's no biggie most time! ^_^
A new .NET Serializer All in one Menu-Ribbon Bar Taking over the world since 1371!
Thank's :) That was comforting. I'm happy to hear that at least some people are on this "other side" when they mastered their subject and now can just deepen their knowledge for fun and not of fear. LIke programming is really fun but school isn't, because the teachers tell me what to learn and when to learn and what to program and that's not fun :( I'm always this student who loves to learn everything that isn't related to my school curriculum. When we study algorithms in school, I want to study GUI, when we study GUI, I want to study algorithms, when we program backend, I want to program frontend :rolleyes: Maybe I'm not fit for the school system X|
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Member 14971499 wrote:
I feel also this constant pressure to learn things above the school curriculum to stay relevant on the market because I don't feel like I'm going to be able to do my job after I get my degree.
It happens to all. I lost 2 semesters due to that because I had the impression of "not learning that much" and hence I thought "I am not going to pass" and wanted to avoid wasting one of my 3 chances to do the exam.
Member 14971499 wrote:
This feeling that I have to reschool myself again and again to stay in this business makes me sick
That's going to happen anyways, you will need to continue learning the whole life if you want to stay "on edge", even if you only specialice in C# there is new things coming constantly, so you need to keep up-to-date
Member 14971499 wrote:
I really enjoy programming and it seems like I have predispositions to do this job
that's the most important thing
Member 14971499 wrote:
but I feel this software engineering is crazy (!)
have you not been lurking here? That should be pretty obvious looking at some of us :rolleyes: :laugh:
Member 14971499 wrote:
If I would study that much for example medical degree I already would be a doctor and at least I would know that I can do my job after these years of studying
No way... not even possible to compare. And I know what I say, my wife is dr. med.
Member 14971499 wrote:
If I work as a programmer, I have to go back home and read another tutorial of another new language and another framework, and study another new technology, another field of CS, becuase if I don't I can't do my job anymore
That's not really true. Because the most important is not all what you know. The most important is the set of skills. It is impossible to know about all. There is a lot of damned good programmers here and even they can't keep track on everything. And additionally, depending on the company you are probably not going to do the same over and over again, so you will need to adapt on the fly. And that's what is really important. The ability to learn by yourself, to think analytically, to understand processes, to see / to find logic in things, to be creative searching for solutions... My
Thank's :) :thumbsup: You gave me really good advices here :) And you are right about medical school. I follow some medical students on Youtube and their live study sessions ;P They can study for 10 hours a day and more. They are my role models. I wish I could be as hard working as them, but I only managed do a session like that for a dya and I was burn out the next day. I don't know how they do it. Do they do drugs or something? :rolleyes:
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Thank's for reply :)
Maximilien wrote:
Focus on your studies; do as much as you can to get good grades.
Yeah... :rolleyes: and that is the hard part to do, because I'm not that academic so I must have some "plan B" :rolleyes: in case things get harder and I'm not able to pass my exams or survive mord advanced courses. Because if I get kicked out of the school and can't program either, than it's over for me :rolleyes: But if I can make websites or apps and am good enough to show something on my resume (in case I don't get my degree :sigh: ) than I can survive somehow. I have to use my time to maximum as long as I take the loan and have time to program and study.
Member 14971499 wrote:
Because if I get kicked out of the school and can't program either, than it's over for me
No, it isn't. You can always learn on your own, not necessarily in college. But having the degree helps to get your first job, so concentrate in passing your exams with the best mark you can get without risking your mental health. Once you get out and get into the real world you will have to learn many things again, because the "academical" programming and the "real-world" programming not always are that similar. Companies are not dumb, if they hire you as a junior developer they won't expect you to be a DevOps or any guru knowing 10 different techonlogies and being able to write an App in a day. Don't stress too much for the whole future, just go one step after another, and right now, you are in college.
M.D.V. ;) If something has a solution... Why do we have to worry about?. If it has no solution... For what reason do we have to worry about? Help me to understand what I'm saying, and I'll explain it better to you Rating helpful answers is nice, but saying thanks can be even nicer.
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Thank's for advice :) Yeah, I think I want to learn too many things at the same time out of fear that I'm not going to get a job :sigh:
Member 14971499 wrote:
Yeah, I think I want to learn too many things at the same time out of fear
And that's exactly what might trigger exactly that result. My father always told me... the more you envelope, the less you squeeze. A.k.a. if you try to do many things at the same time, you won't do anyone properly. Focus on what you have to do now, and leave the rest for later. You will have plenty of time to learn what is not in your subjects.
M.D.V. ;) If something has a solution... Why do we have to worry about?. If it has no solution... For what reason do we have to worry about? Help me to understand what I'm saying, and I'll explain it better to you Rating helpful answers is nice, but saying thanks can be even nicer.
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X| Yeah... time to whine a little bit, but since I started programming and studying CS i feel like I don't have any life left. It's not like I had great life before and something to miss, but even for an introverted and book-loving person that I am I feel like programming is consuming my soul entirely. I don't even have time to rest, because it would mean the end for my degree. If I study for two or three hours in a day it's actualy me resting. If I don't spend at least 8 hours a day on studying, it's over for me. I'm gonna be kicked out of the school and I don't even have chance to get the job with my current skills. It's impossible for me to survive this degree studying just 3 hours a day.I feel also this constant pressure to learn things above the school curriculum to stay relevant on the market because I don't feel like I'm going to be able to do my job after I get my degree. This feeling that I have to reschool myself again and again to stay in this business makes me sick. I really enjoy programming and it seems like I have predispositions to do this job but I feel this software engineering is crazy (!) If I would study that much for example medical degree I already would be a doctor and at least I would know that I can do my job after these years of studying, and than go back home and read a book, meet with friends, have some time off. But this is not how it will be if I work as a programmer. If I work as a programmer, I have to go back home and read another tutorial of another new language and another framework, and study another new technology, another field of CS, becuase if I don't I can't do my job anymore, and I'm irrelevant and replace by 18-year's old python-linux-algorithm-AI- virtuoso X| I feel like Neo, trapped in matrix and don't have any contact with the real world.I became even more socialy backward X|
Member 14971499 wrote:
I feel also this constant pressure to learn things above the school curriculum to stay relevant on the market because I don't feel like I'm going to be able to do my job after I get my degree
The first thing I learned after graduating is that no matter what is taught, the world will have moved on. It's really the nature of this field. And yet here I am, over a quarter of a century later, still doing it and learning new stuff as I go along. Don't tell yourself you have to know everything to succeed in this field. Learn what they're teaching, but perhaps more importantly "learn how to learn". As someone who's been asked to review resumes and conduct interviews (as much as I hate that) I don't even want to talk to someone fresh out of school who tries his best to know it all - that just won't fly. Rather, if you can demonstrate you know the basics that are expected, and you can learn and adapt, you're in a much better position than burning yourself out before you've even started.
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X| Yeah... time to whine a little bit, but since I started programming and studying CS i feel like I don't have any life left. It's not like I had great life before and something to miss, but even for an introverted and book-loving person that I am I feel like programming is consuming my soul entirely. I don't even have time to rest, because it would mean the end for my degree. If I study for two or three hours in a day it's actualy me resting. If I don't spend at least 8 hours a day on studying, it's over for me. I'm gonna be kicked out of the school and I don't even have chance to get the job with my current skills. It's impossible for me to survive this degree studying just 3 hours a day.I feel also this constant pressure to learn things above the school curriculum to stay relevant on the market because I don't feel like I'm going to be able to do my job after I get my degree. This feeling that I have to reschool myself again and again to stay in this business makes me sick. I really enjoy programming and it seems like I have predispositions to do this job but I feel this software engineering is crazy (!) If I would study that much for example medical degree I already would be a doctor and at least I would know that I can do my job after these years of studying, and than go back home and read a book, meet with friends, have some time off. But this is not how it will be if I work as a programmer. If I work as a programmer, I have to go back home and read another tutorial of another new language and another framework, and study another new technology, another field of CS, becuase if I don't I can't do my job anymore, and I'm irrelevant and replace by 18-year's old python-linux-algorithm-AI- virtuoso X| I feel like Neo, trapped in matrix and don't have any contact with the real world.I became even more socialy backward X|
When you realize that all this stuff was made up by other people, and some at least not as smart as you, it gets easier. Study smarter, not harder. Take any subject, of the 20 or so books on the subject, only a few are worth picking up (if at all). That goes for videos and tutorials. You have to be discriminating. Even the books that get assigned can be shite ... just remember to parrot what the prof says (whether you agree or not) while "learning". And you don't have to "learn" it all ... The best skill is knowing how to "find" it, when you need it. (Most of ones that frequent Q&A never got that part ... or just lazy / entitled) The biggest fail of the system is "closed book exams" IMO; unless you work in ER or crashing a plane. Closed books is not reality.
It was only in wine that he laid down no limit for himself, but he did not allow himself to be confused by it. ― Confucian Analects: Rules of Confucius about his food
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X| Yeah... time to whine a little bit, but since I started programming and studying CS i feel like I don't have any life left. It's not like I had great life before and something to miss, but even for an introverted and book-loving person that I am I feel like programming is consuming my soul entirely. I don't even have time to rest, because it would mean the end for my degree. If I study for two or three hours in a day it's actualy me resting. If I don't spend at least 8 hours a day on studying, it's over for me. I'm gonna be kicked out of the school and I don't even have chance to get the job with my current skills. It's impossible for me to survive this degree studying just 3 hours a day.I feel also this constant pressure to learn things above the school curriculum to stay relevant on the market because I don't feel like I'm going to be able to do my job after I get my degree. This feeling that I have to reschool myself again and again to stay in this business makes me sick. I really enjoy programming and it seems like I have predispositions to do this job but I feel this software engineering is crazy (!) If I would study that much for example medical degree I already would be a doctor and at least I would know that I can do my job after these years of studying, and than go back home and read a book, meet with friends, have some time off. But this is not how it will be if I work as a programmer. If I work as a programmer, I have to go back home and read another tutorial of another new language and another framework, and study another new technology, another field of CS, becuase if I don't I can't do my job anymore, and I'm irrelevant and replace by 18-year's old python-linux-algorithm-AI- virtuoso X| I feel like Neo, trapped in matrix and don't have any contact with the real world.I became even more socialy backward X|
Member - suck it up. I mean that in an encouraging way. You are in school and they are trying to wash you out. When I started I had 300+ in my class, 52 graduated in 4 years. Suck it up. You do have *no* life. Focus on the prize. The skills when the python virtuoso has no idea how to code up a line. Don't worry about it. Been in the business 40 years. Seen them flaming out - they look pretty in the sky :)
Charlie Gilley <italic>Stuck in a dysfunctional matrix from which I must escape... "Where liberty dwells, there is my country." B. Franklin, 1783 “They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.” BF, 1759
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X| Yeah... time to whine a little bit, but since I started programming and studying CS i feel like I don't have any life left. It's not like I had great life before and something to miss, but even for an introverted and book-loving person that I am I feel like programming is consuming my soul entirely. I don't even have time to rest, because it would mean the end for my degree. If I study for two or three hours in a day it's actualy me resting. If I don't spend at least 8 hours a day on studying, it's over for me. I'm gonna be kicked out of the school and I don't even have chance to get the job with my current skills. It's impossible for me to survive this degree studying just 3 hours a day.I feel also this constant pressure to learn things above the school curriculum to stay relevant on the market because I don't feel like I'm going to be able to do my job after I get my degree. This feeling that I have to reschool myself again and again to stay in this business makes me sick. I really enjoy programming and it seems like I have predispositions to do this job but I feel this software engineering is crazy (!) If I would study that much for example medical degree I already would be a doctor and at least I would know that I can do my job after these years of studying, and than go back home and read a book, meet with friends, have some time off. But this is not how it will be if I work as a programmer. If I work as a programmer, I have to go back home and read another tutorial of another new language and another framework, and study another new technology, another field of CS, becuase if I don't I can't do my job anymore, and I'm irrelevant and replace by 18-year's old python-linux-algorithm-AI- virtuoso X| I feel like Neo, trapped in matrix and don't have any contact with the real world.I became even more socialy backward X|
Short answer is NO. Long answer is NO, we don't have a life, we are always facing our bosses' whims and extendin our job time due to their continuous change of mind. Sorry for that
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X| Yeah... time to whine a little bit, but since I started programming and studying CS i feel like I don't have any life left. It's not like I had great life before and something to miss, but even for an introverted and book-loving person that I am I feel like programming is consuming my soul entirely. I don't even have time to rest, because it would mean the end for my degree. If I study for two or three hours in a day it's actualy me resting. If I don't spend at least 8 hours a day on studying, it's over for me. I'm gonna be kicked out of the school and I don't even have chance to get the job with my current skills. It's impossible for me to survive this degree studying just 3 hours a day.I feel also this constant pressure to learn things above the school curriculum to stay relevant on the market because I don't feel like I'm going to be able to do my job after I get my degree. This feeling that I have to reschool myself again and again to stay in this business makes me sick. I really enjoy programming and it seems like I have predispositions to do this job but I feel this software engineering is crazy (!) If I would study that much for example medical degree I already would be a doctor and at least I would know that I can do my job after these years of studying, and than go back home and read a book, meet with friends, have some time off. But this is not how it will be if I work as a programmer. If I work as a programmer, I have to go back home and read another tutorial of another new language and another framework, and study another new technology, another field of CS, becuase if I don't I can't do my job anymore, and I'm irrelevant and replace by 18-year's old python-linux-algorithm-AI- virtuoso X| I feel like Neo, trapped in matrix and don't have any contact with the real world.I became even more socialy backward X|
With the utmost respect, I'm gonna conclude your study technique is awful. Try building a logical tree of topics for each knowledge domain, and for each topic, just focus on the constraints and limitations. Try to understand when something is not applicable, and ponder about what problem it does solve against a previous iteration. This will make the material 100x less dense to navigate. Frankly, if you have to spend so much time each day studying you're clearly wasting your time. You could get better results if just sat down, thought about it, and discussed the topics with your peers in a respectful manner for an hour or so. And, as a bonus, the pyhton-linux-ai-virtuoso is just following a guide that is applicable to his/her problem set. Knowing what information applies to which problem is the only skill you have to practice in this field. In contrast, knowing all the details about a single or more topics and being able to create novel solutions with that knowledge is.. not worth anything. There's no value in novel solutions. They don't scale, they're costly to maintain, and everything has been written already in a less novel but more sensible way.. if you could have just humbled yourself and took the time to look around more. As a scholar, you invent novel approaches and test them for validity. As an engineer, you combine this information into a working prototype. As a professional, you add value and reduce cost. You're the engineer, so the course kinda expects you to engineer a solution to your own problems.
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X| Yeah... time to whine a little bit, but since I started programming and studying CS i feel like I don't have any life left. It's not like I had great life before and something to miss, but even for an introverted and book-loving person that I am I feel like programming is consuming my soul entirely. I don't even have time to rest, because it would mean the end for my degree. If I study for two or three hours in a day it's actualy me resting. If I don't spend at least 8 hours a day on studying, it's over for me. I'm gonna be kicked out of the school and I don't even have chance to get the job with my current skills. It's impossible for me to survive this degree studying just 3 hours a day.I feel also this constant pressure to learn things above the school curriculum to stay relevant on the market because I don't feel like I'm going to be able to do my job after I get my degree. This feeling that I have to reschool myself again and again to stay in this business makes me sick. I really enjoy programming and it seems like I have predispositions to do this job but I feel this software engineering is crazy (!) If I would study that much for example medical degree I already would be a doctor and at least I would know that I can do my job after these years of studying, and than go back home and read a book, meet with friends, have some time off. But this is not how it will be if I work as a programmer. If I work as a programmer, I have to go back home and read another tutorial of another new language and another framework, and study another new technology, another field of CS, becuase if I don't I can't do my job anymore, and I'm irrelevant and replace by 18-year's old python-linux-algorithm-AI- virtuoso X| I feel like Neo, trapped in matrix and don't have any contact with the real world.I became even more socialy backward X|
Member 14971499 wrote: This feeling that I have to reschool myself again and again to stay in this business makes me sick. I really enjoy programming and it seems like I have predispositions to do this job but I feel this software engineering is crazy (!) If I would study that much for example medical degree I already would be a doctor and at least I would know that I can do my job after these years of studying, and than go back home and read a book, meet with friends, have some time off. i totally agree. in our meeting room there comes a mathematics professor to teach lectures on a schedule that doesn't collide with our regular work. i sneak into the meeting room after those classes and look at the board. i see the same derivations, the same integrals, the same limits of the same functions from the time i was 4th grade high school or 1st year at college. last week i said to the professor, i envy you. why? because your knowledge is firm. your subject, mathematics is non trivial. you teach, that also i always wanted to do. but most importantly mathematics is the same for everyone, even the gods must obey it. and as a bonus, it's logical. once you learn it you can pass you knowledge to others without being affected by trivia. then in your spare time you can program, read a book, listen to music or go on a philosophical journey to a mountain top of say 3000m, nothing extreme. in the past 3 project i have worked on: 3 programming languages changed: javascript, php, c# 3 programming environments changed: linux + geany + grep + node + mongo, windows on client + browser + php storm + linux on server + apache + mysql, windows + visual studio + unity + sqlite 3 version control system changed: git, svn, perforce... and god knows what else some of this i love, to others i am indifferent, the rest i hate and even the javascript i loved has changed so much that i would look foolish if would go straight to a programming interview i started my first job as a programmer in 1998, but i was programming since at least 1985. i quite my job as a programmer around 2003, because i couldn't do the thing i loved on orders. 13 years i worked in a few firms and on many types of jobs. i never quit programming on my spare time. i decided to go in programming once more and this time for good. almost 5 years have passed since then. i still program at my spare time, because what i do at work is not interesting to me. it's just a regular job on the assembly line, no matter if it is somehow connected to php o
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X| Yeah... time to whine a little bit, but since I started programming and studying CS i feel like I don't have any life left. It's not like I had great life before and something to miss, but even for an introverted and book-loving person that I am I feel like programming is consuming my soul entirely. I don't even have time to rest, because it would mean the end for my degree. If I study for two or three hours in a day it's actualy me resting. If I don't spend at least 8 hours a day on studying, it's over for me. I'm gonna be kicked out of the school and I don't even have chance to get the job with my current skills. It's impossible for me to survive this degree studying just 3 hours a day.I feel also this constant pressure to learn things above the school curriculum to stay relevant on the market because I don't feel like I'm going to be able to do my job after I get my degree. This feeling that I have to reschool myself again and again to stay in this business makes me sick. I really enjoy programming and it seems like I have predispositions to do this job but I feel this software engineering is crazy (!) If I would study that much for example medical degree I already would be a doctor and at least I would know that I can do my job after these years of studying, and than go back home and read a book, meet with friends, have some time off. But this is not how it will be if I work as a programmer. If I work as a programmer, I have to go back home and read another tutorial of another new language and another framework, and study another new technology, another field of CS, becuase if I don't I can't do my job anymore, and I'm irrelevant and replace by 18-year's old python-linux-algorithm-AI- virtuoso X| I feel like Neo, trapped in matrix and don't have any contact with the real world.I became even more socialy backward X|
and don't forget what others have said about the corona crisis, nobody has a life anymore compared to the 80's and 90's also, whenever i worked i was 90% of the time in IT, i just wasn't a programmer.
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Member 14971499 wrote:
Yeah, I think I want to learn too many things at the same time out of fear
And that's exactly what might trigger exactly that result. My father always told me... the more you envelope, the less you squeeze. A.k.a. if you try to do many things at the same time, you won't do anyone properly. Focus on what you have to do now, and leave the rest for later. You will have plenty of time to learn what is not in your subjects.
M.D.V. ;) If something has a solution... Why do we have to worry about?. If it has no solution... For what reason do we have to worry about? Help me to understand what I'm saying, and I'll explain it better to you Rating helpful answers is nice, but saying thanks can be even nicer.
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X| Yeah... time to whine a little bit, but since I started programming and studying CS i feel like I don't have any life left. It's not like I had great life before and something to miss, but even for an introverted and book-loving person that I am I feel like programming is consuming my soul entirely. I don't even have time to rest, because it would mean the end for my degree. If I study for two or three hours in a day it's actualy me resting. If I don't spend at least 8 hours a day on studying, it's over for me. I'm gonna be kicked out of the school and I don't even have chance to get the job with my current skills. It's impossible for me to survive this degree studying just 3 hours a day.I feel also this constant pressure to learn things above the school curriculum to stay relevant on the market because I don't feel like I'm going to be able to do my job after I get my degree. This feeling that I have to reschool myself again and again to stay in this business makes me sick. I really enjoy programming and it seems like I have predispositions to do this job but I feel this software engineering is crazy (!) If I would study that much for example medical degree I already would be a doctor and at least I would know that I can do my job after these years of studying, and than go back home and read a book, meet with friends, have some time off. But this is not how it will be if I work as a programmer. If I work as a programmer, I have to go back home and read another tutorial of another new language and another framework, and study another new technology, another field of CS, becuase if I don't I can't do my job anymore, and I'm irrelevant and replace by 18-year's old python-linux-algorithm-AI- virtuoso X| I feel like Neo, trapped in matrix and don't have any contact with the real world.I became even more socialy backward X|
A few quick things to add: * In general, I prefer to hire people with CS degrees for programming jobs because they have a broader CS background and better skills; however, some of the best programmers I know don't have CS degrees and one was entirely self taught. I also once recommended someone with a BS over someone with a MS in CS because the person with only the BS knew his stuff better. It's not the degree that counts, it's what you know and what you can do with it. * I expect people I hire to have basic skills and hopefully know the language(s) we're using and some of the tools (depends on the level, for college hires, I only care about basic problem solving skills using any computer programming language that's a reasonable approximation to what I need - e.g. C++,C#, Java, JavaScript... I don't care which - but you'd better understand OOP). * Most learning is on the job. No one ever knows the apps and systems they will be working on (unless they're a rehire, and that's VERY rare). * There are a couple of times in my life where I felt behind, like I didn't know anything, and "everyone" else was an expert in some new technology I needed to learn. Instead of giving up, I dug in and started learning everything I could about it. A few months later I realized that I was now the expert and everyone was coming to me with questions in that technology. That's because only 10% or so of "everyone" were really experts, the other 90% were just muddling through, and it didn't take that much to pass them by. * I've been doing this for over 40 years. I've spent the entire time learning and re-learning. The languages and tools and systems are completely different, yet the fundamental concepts remain the same, and I'm able to build on my strengths and do a better job and learn things quicker and faster because I have a strong base to build on. So, at least in that sense, it does get easier, but you need to never stop learning and expect to occasionally be overwhelmed... * Doctors have to keep learning too. The medical industry is changing fast! In the medical industry they have Continuing Education Units and if you don't get enough of them you loose your license. * These days, everything is about programming. Even if you don't finish your CS degree you can go into any other field and probably leverage a lot of your programming skills to give yourself a leg up and be more efficient/effective than those around you. (Sometimes I wish I'd done just that :-)). * [Good] Employers expect their people
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X| Yeah... time to whine a little bit, but since I started programming and studying CS i feel like I don't have any life left. It's not like I had great life before and something to miss, but even for an introverted and book-loving person that I am I feel like programming is consuming my soul entirely. I don't even have time to rest, because it would mean the end for my degree. If I study for two or three hours in a day it's actualy me resting. If I don't spend at least 8 hours a day on studying, it's over for me. I'm gonna be kicked out of the school and I don't even have chance to get the job with my current skills. It's impossible for me to survive this degree studying just 3 hours a day.I feel also this constant pressure to learn things above the school curriculum to stay relevant on the market because I don't feel like I'm going to be able to do my job after I get my degree. This feeling that I have to reschool myself again and again to stay in this business makes me sick. I really enjoy programming and it seems like I have predispositions to do this job but I feel this software engineering is crazy (!) If I would study that much for example medical degree I already would be a doctor and at least I would know that I can do my job after these years of studying, and than go back home and read a book, meet with friends, have some time off. But this is not how it will be if I work as a programmer. If I work as a programmer, I have to go back home and read another tutorial of another new language and another framework, and study another new technology, another field of CS, becuase if I don't I can't do my job anymore, and I'm irrelevant and replace by 18-year's old python-linux-algorithm-AI- virtuoso X| I feel like Neo, trapped in matrix and don't have any contact with the real world.I became even more socialy backward X|
I think you're trying to encompass too much, part of being a software developer/programmer, is be able to know when something is feasible or not given the time and resources available (time and/or money) and prioritize based on that, and while learning above the curriculum is fine, your primary target is to get your degree, which is what will make you marketable in your firsts jobs. Moreover, whatever language/tooling you learn in your school days might not be applicable to your future jobs, in my case, i learned C++ and Java at school (those were the languages the school liked to use), and when i got my first development job i had to learn VB.NET, for the interview, one day before, as that was the technology they used.
"Science fiction is any idea that occurs in the head and doesn’t exist yet, but soon will, and will change everything for everybody, and nothing will ever be the same again." Ray Bradbury
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X| Yeah... time to whine a little bit, but since I started programming and studying CS i feel like I don't have any life left. It's not like I had great life before and something to miss, but even for an introverted and book-loving person that I am I feel like programming is consuming my soul entirely. I don't even have time to rest, because it would mean the end for my degree. If I study for two or three hours in a day it's actualy me resting. If I don't spend at least 8 hours a day on studying, it's over for me. I'm gonna be kicked out of the school and I don't even have chance to get the job with my current skills. It's impossible for me to survive this degree studying just 3 hours a day.I feel also this constant pressure to learn things above the school curriculum to stay relevant on the market because I don't feel like I'm going to be able to do my job after I get my degree. This feeling that I have to reschool myself again and again to stay in this business makes me sick. I really enjoy programming and it seems like I have predispositions to do this job but I feel this software engineering is crazy (!) If I would study that much for example medical degree I already would be a doctor and at least I would know that I can do my job after these years of studying, and than go back home and read a book, meet with friends, have some time off. But this is not how it will be if I work as a programmer. If I work as a programmer, I have to go back home and read another tutorial of another new language and another framework, and study another new technology, another field of CS, becuase if I don't I can't do my job anymore, and I'm irrelevant and replace by 18-year's old python-linux-algorithm-AI- virtuoso X| I feel like Neo, trapped in matrix and don't have any contact with the real world.I became even more socialy backward X|
Breathe! First, the degree proves 3 things: 1) Ability to complete something hard (4yrs of schooling) 2) Ability to LEARN (Rough replacement for IQ) 3) Basic Ability in degree (ie, programming), and this gives you the "tech speak skills" I don't hire programmers fresh out of University anymore. I prefer experience. Second, it took me 7 years to get my 4yr degree. I worked full time the first 3 years while at community college. Then I worked 20+ hours/wk at University, and was screwed over on the transfer. But I loved it. It was hard, but I was young. The point: Slow down. At one point I was taking 19 Credits, 3 at the masters level, while working 20+ hrs a week. I FAILED. I dropped the Masters Class on Neural Networks AND a 300 level computer science class that suffered because the work I was trying to do at the Masters level. I LEARNED MY LIMITS. Know yours. Finally, Dr. Jordan Peterson offers a test you can take (for a fee) that will help identify your personality and what you bring to the table. This could help re-align you with better goals... But YOU and YOU alone are in control of how you spend your time. Take an extra year to get your degree, and enjoy it a bit more... Or suck it up, and realize once it is done, nobody can take the degree away.
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X| Yeah... time to whine a little bit, but since I started programming and studying CS i feel like I don't have any life left. It's not like I had great life before and something to miss, but even for an introverted and book-loving person that I am I feel like programming is consuming my soul entirely. I don't even have time to rest, because it would mean the end for my degree. If I study for two or three hours in a day it's actualy me resting. If I don't spend at least 8 hours a day on studying, it's over for me. I'm gonna be kicked out of the school and I don't even have chance to get the job with my current skills. It's impossible for me to survive this degree studying just 3 hours a day.I feel also this constant pressure to learn things above the school curriculum to stay relevant on the market because I don't feel like I'm going to be able to do my job after I get my degree. This feeling that I have to reschool myself again and again to stay in this business makes me sick. I really enjoy programming and it seems like I have predispositions to do this job but I feel this software engineering is crazy (!) If I would study that much for example medical degree I already would be a doctor and at least I would know that I can do my job after these years of studying, and than go back home and read a book, meet with friends, have some time off. But this is not how it will be if I work as a programmer. If I work as a programmer, I have to go back home and read another tutorial of another new language and another framework, and study another new technology, another field of CS, becuase if I don't I can't do my job anymore, and I'm irrelevant and replace by 18-year's old python-linux-algorithm-AI- virtuoso X| I feel like Neo, trapped in matrix and don't have any contact with the real world.I became even more socialy backward X|
Dude, if you're into programming for other reason than having fun you're in the wrong place. My 2c.
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X| Yeah... time to whine a little bit, but since I started programming and studying CS i feel like I don't have any life left. It's not like I had great life before and something to miss, but even for an introverted and book-loving person that I am I feel like programming is consuming my soul entirely. I don't even have time to rest, because it would mean the end for my degree. If I study for two or three hours in a day it's actualy me resting. If I don't spend at least 8 hours a day on studying, it's over for me. I'm gonna be kicked out of the school and I don't even have chance to get the job with my current skills. It's impossible for me to survive this degree studying just 3 hours a day.I feel also this constant pressure to learn things above the school curriculum to stay relevant on the market because I don't feel like I'm going to be able to do my job after I get my degree. This feeling that I have to reschool myself again and again to stay in this business makes me sick. I really enjoy programming and it seems like I have predispositions to do this job but I feel this software engineering is crazy (!) If I would study that much for example medical degree I already would be a doctor and at least I would know that I can do my job after these years of studying, and than go back home and read a book, meet with friends, have some time off. But this is not how it will be if I work as a programmer. If I work as a programmer, I have to go back home and read another tutorial of another new language and another framework, and study another new technology, another field of CS, becuase if I don't I can't do my job anymore, and I'm irrelevant and replace by 18-year's old python-linux-algorithm-AI- virtuoso X| I feel like Neo, trapped in matrix and don't have any contact with the real world.I became even more socialy backward X|
You think it sucks now, with 3 hours of classwork and 3 hours of homework a day? Well, when you're employed, it will be a minimum of eight hours a day, no matter what you do for a living. Welcome to adulthood. Childhood was nice, but now it's over. You will look back on your college days as a stressful but rather care-free period in your life. Your so-called life will take place exclusively evenings and weekends. You will learn to take care of your household chores efficiently, so you can get on with the things that interest you. You will get married, so you can split the chores, and so you have someone close by to have a life with, instead of going out looking for your friends. College is stressful, struggling to understand, keeping up with the lectures and the exam schedule. You need to know that this is a normal state for a college student. You're not an idiot--you just haven't learned yet. Embrace the suck. Work will have its deadlines too, but it's not the same degree of mental struggle. You will be far more confident once you complete your degree. Continuous reeducation is a part of computer science that will be there your whole career. If you really can't stand to keep learning forever, you need to quit now and do something simpler, like carrying bricks for a living.
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You think it sucks now, with 3 hours of classwork and 3 hours of homework a day? Well, when you're employed, it will be a minimum of eight hours a day, no matter what you do for a living. Welcome to adulthood. Childhood was nice, but now it's over. You will look back on your college days as a stressful but rather care-free period in your life. Your so-called life will take place exclusively evenings and weekends. You will learn to take care of your household chores efficiently, so you can get on with the things that interest you. You will get married, so you can split the chores, and so you have someone close by to have a life with, instead of going out looking for your friends. College is stressful, struggling to understand, keeping up with the lectures and the exam schedule. You need to know that this is a normal state for a college student. You're not an idiot--you just haven't learned yet. Embrace the suck. Work will have its deadlines too, but it's not the same degree of mental struggle. You will be far more confident once you complete your degree. Continuous reeducation is a part of computer science that will be there your whole career. If you really can't stand to keep learning forever, you need to quit now and do something simpler, like carrying bricks for a living.
SeattleC++ wrote:
Continuous reeducation is a part of computer science that will be there your whole career. If you really can't stand to keep learning forever, you need to quit now and do something simpler, like carrying bricks for a living.
Hehe :laugh: yeah, you're so right on this one.