Is it more difficult to find work as an older developer?
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Younger ones are cheaper: and there is an impression that this is a Young Man's Game. Problem is the ones that can code are generally those that are still in the industry after 30 years, not those who just escaped from college ...
"I have no idea what I did, but I'm taking full credit for it." - ThisOldTony "Common sense is so rare these days, it should be classified as a super power" - Random T-shirt AntiTwitter: @DalekDave is now a follower!
I have also worked with developers over 60, who can't remember how to tie their shoe, yet, they are still on my f***ing team being as worthless as they can be. I have also seen developers out of college that are naturals, and a great asset to my team. It's all relative. In my experience the older ones are less likely to want to learn new technologies and move with the times. Their memory and cognition can be a liability at times. I am 49 year's old. My memory and cognition is not what it used to be when I was 25 or 30. Eventually, I too will have to be put to pasture. Such is life. And yes, younger usually equates to cheaper labor costs, but you usually get more output then with grandpa who needs a 2 hour nap in the afternoon.
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I have also worked with developers over 60, who can't remember how to tie their shoe, yet, they are still on my f***ing team being as worthless as they can be. I have also seen developers out of college that are naturals, and a great asset to my team. It's all relative. In my experience the older ones are less likely to want to learn new technologies and move with the times. Their memory and cognition can be a liability at times. I am 49 year's old. My memory and cognition is not what it used to be when I was 25 or 30. Eventually, I too will have to be put to pasture. Such is life. And yes, younger usually equates to cheaper labor costs, but you usually get more output then with grandpa who needs a 2 hour nap in the afternoon.
[Kids imagine what life will be like at forty](https://cdn.dopl3r.com//media/memes\_files/kids-imagining-what-life-would-be-like-at-40-i-am-forty-i-have-wrinkles-and-grey-hair-and-i-would-have-a-walking-stick-to-help-me-walk-rita-monaghan-9-i-am-forty-i-am-turning-old-i-just-left-work-because-i-cannot-manage-goin-UyqED.jpg)
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I have also worked with developers over 60, who can't remember how to tie their shoe, yet, they are still on my f***ing team being as worthless as they can be. I have also seen developers out of college that are naturals, and a great asset to my team. It's all relative. In my experience the older ones are less likely to want to learn new technologies and move with the times. Their memory and cognition can be a liability at times. I am 49 year's old. My memory and cognition is not what it used to be when I was 25 or 30. Eventually, I too will have to be put to pasture. Such is life. And yes, younger usually equates to cheaper labor costs, but you usually get more output then with grandpa who needs a 2 hour nap in the afternoon.
Quote:
My memory and cognition is not what it used to be when I was 25 or 30.
Hear! Hear!
Mircea
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Younger ones are cheaper: and there is an impression that this is a Young Man's Game. Problem is the ones that can code are generally those that are still in the industry after 30 years, not those who just escaped from college ...
"I have no idea what I did, but I'm taking full credit for it." - ThisOldTony "Common sense is so rare these days, it should be classified as a super power" - Random T-shirt AntiTwitter: @DalekDave is now a follower!
OG wrote:
the ones that can code are generally those that are still in the industry after 30 years
Yes, though I'd say that if they're still coding after even 10 years, they either enjoy it--which probably means they're good at it--or they're so hopeless that they can't even be shunted into another role, like scrum master, manager, or marketer. It should be easy to figure out which of these is the case.
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I've noticed a trend (at least in South Africa) that a lot of developer job postings are looking for junior to mid level developers. Posts for senior level developers are scarcer. Companies are looking for young, energetic people. It seems like it gets more difficult to find work as an older developer, even though I would think that you would be valued for your experience. I think part of the reason is also that the salary for junior and mid level developers are less and companies are trying to save money. Perhaps there is also a stigma that older developers skills are not up to date?
I'm 67 and got my current contract when I was 61 - I've always kept up with the latest tech and I can hold my own with most people - as JSOP once said I'm old I know stuff :-D
"I didn't mention the bats - he'd see them soon enough" - Hunter S Thompson - RIP
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I've noticed a trend (at least in South Africa) that a lot of developer job postings are looking for junior to mid level developers. Posts for senior level developers are scarcer. Companies are looking for young, energetic people. It seems like it gets more difficult to find work as an older developer, even though I would think that you would be valued for your experience. I think part of the reason is also that the salary for junior and mid level developers are less and companies are trying to save money. Perhaps there is also a stigma that older developers skills are not up to date?
I would say it depends. I also would put my ability to get work done and out the door up against anyone! and I mean anyone. I have frequently at past 40 age (52) coded 2 or 3, 20year olds into the ground. I might appear to go slower but at the end of the work day I get far more done. Just because I know that taking my time and checking my work is better than lots of effort with no reward. Abe Lincoln quote. If I am given a whole day to cut down a tree. I am going to spend 6 hours sharpening my axe. Also, Last year this time I lost my job. I got multiple job offers during the year and beat out lots of younger people for jobs just because I knew my stuff and also, I was very willing to admit when I didn't know my stuff. Sometimes people are posting for Junior or early mid and they really want the senior. But they want to pay for Junior. All you have to do is sell them on what you deliver for them. I in all truth can say that I am always replaced with 2-3 people when I move on from a position. 2-3 Juniors at 60k are the same or more than 1 senior at 120k. I am worth it. Trust me. I also cannot state this strongly enough. You have to demonstrate that you will be a team player. And not just with the other IT people but a team player for the whole company. You have to be willing to work with anyone at anytime. You cannot be a prima donna. I think that about covers it.
To err is human to really elephant it up you need a computer
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I have also worked with developers over 60, who can't remember how to tie their shoe, yet, they are still on my f***ing team being as worthless as they can be. I have also seen developers out of college that are naturals, and a great asset to my team. It's all relative. In my experience the older ones are less likely to want to learn new technologies and move with the times. Their memory and cognition can be a liability at times. I am 49 year's old. My memory and cognition is not what it used to be when I was 25 or 30. Eventually, I too will have to be put to pasture. Such is life. And yes, younger usually equates to cheaper labor costs, but you usually get more output then with grandpa who needs a 2 hour nap in the afternoon.
Many years ago the company I worked for (as an operator, but learning programming) would recruit programmers only from the graduate pool. So we had programmers with first or second class degrees who could not write a decent program to save their life. Largely because there were no CS degrees then, so they all had degrees in totally irrelevant subjects. It took a few years for that to change. But my overall experience is that age has no bearing whatsoever. I have worked with people of all ages who were useless, and some whose skills were excellent. The main thing I did notice about the good ones, was their attitude to doing the job, and learning new skills.
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I've noticed a trend (at least in South Africa) that a lot of developer job postings are looking for junior to mid level developers. Posts for senior level developers are scarcer. Companies are looking for young, energetic people. It seems like it gets more difficult to find work as an older developer, even though I would think that you would be valued for your experience. I think part of the reason is also that the salary for junior and mid level developers are less and companies are trying to save money. Perhaps there is also a stigma that older developers skills are not up to date?
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They compensate experience with resiliency :-D
M.D.V. ;) If something has a solution... Why do we have to worry about?. If it has no solution... For what reason do we have to worry about? Help me to understand what I'm saying, and I'll explain it better to you Rating helpful answers is nice, but saying thanks can be even nicer.
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Many years ago the company I worked for (as an operator, but learning programming) would recruit programmers only from the graduate pool. So we had programmers with first or second class degrees who could not write a decent program to save their life. Largely because there were no CS degrees then, so they all had degrees in totally irrelevant subjects. It took a few years for that to change. But my overall experience is that age has no bearing whatsoever. I have worked with people of all ages who were useless, and some whose skills were excellent. The main thing I did notice about the good ones, was their attitude to doing the job, and learning new skills.
Richard MacCutchan wrote:
age has no bearing whatsoever.
I have to disagree with you on this. Age does have a bearing on your overall effectiveness as developer/programmer, outside the realm of "experience".
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Richard MacCutchan wrote:
age has no bearing whatsoever.
I have to disagree with you on this. Age does have a bearing on your overall effectiveness as developer/programmer, outside the realm of "experience".
“Experience is what keeps you from making mistakes. Making mistakes is what gives you experience.” I’m not sure who said it first, but over the years I’ve certainly gained a lot of experience.
"Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana."
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Richard MacCutchan wrote:
age has no bearing whatsoever.
I have to disagree with you on this. Age does have a bearing on your overall effectiveness as developer/programmer, outside the realm of "experience".
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I've noticed a trend (at least in South Africa) that a lot of developer job postings are looking for junior to mid level developers. Posts for senior level developers are scarcer. Companies are looking for young, energetic people. It seems like it gets more difficult to find work as an older developer, even though I would think that you would be valued for your experience. I think part of the reason is also that the salary for junior and mid level developers are less and companies are trying to save money. Perhaps there is also a stigma that older developers skills are not up to date?
Older developers have wives and lives, and aren't as willing to work 60+ hour weeks. Older developers are a lot more skilled, and demand higher salaries. Older developers typically have lower tolerance for corporate absurdity. Older developers are less receptive to "change for the sake of change", and would rather wring every last drop of usefulness out of "legacy" APIs than inject new untested code into the main project branch. Older developers are often viewed as rude and opinionated, when in fact, they're just being pragmatic. Most managers can't even spell "pragmatic". So yeah, it's harder for older developers to find work.
".45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly" - JSOP, 2010
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You can never have too much ammo - unless you're swimming, or on fire. - JSOP, 2010
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When you pry the gun from my cold dead hands, be careful - the barrel will be very hot. - JSOP, 2013 -
I would say it depends. I also would put my ability to get work done and out the door up against anyone! and I mean anyone. I have frequently at past 40 age (52) coded 2 or 3, 20year olds into the ground. I might appear to go slower but at the end of the work day I get far more done. Just because I know that taking my time and checking my work is better than lots of effort with no reward. Abe Lincoln quote. If I am given a whole day to cut down a tree. I am going to spend 6 hours sharpening my axe. Also, Last year this time I lost my job. I got multiple job offers during the year and beat out lots of younger people for jobs just because I knew my stuff and also, I was very willing to admit when I didn't know my stuff. Sometimes people are posting for Junior or early mid and they really want the senior. But they want to pay for Junior. All you have to do is sell them on what you deliver for them. I in all truth can say that I am always replaced with 2-3 people when I move on from a position. 2-3 Juniors at 60k are the same or more than 1 senior at 120k. I am worth it. Trust me. I also cannot state this strongly enough. You have to demonstrate that you will be a team player. And not just with the other IT people but a team player for the whole company. You have to be willing to work with anyone at anytime. You cannot be a prima donna. I think that about covers it.
To err is human to really elephant it up you need a computer
Quote:
I have frequently at past 40 age (52) coded 2 or 3, 20year olds into the ground.
That's not the question. The question is: would the 52 years old you code into the ground the 30 years old you?
Mircea
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The youngsters may spend a day fixing a bug and write a couple hundred lines of code. An experienced developer will spend the time and fix the one line, and remove 50 lines of dead code, leaving things better than they were.
"Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana."
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Younger ones are cheaper: and there is an impression that this is a Young Man's Game. Problem is the ones that can code are generally those that are still in the industry after 30 years, not those who just escaped from college ...
"I have no idea what I did, but I'm taking full credit for it." - ThisOldTony "Common sense is so rare these days, it should be classified as a super power" - Random T-shirt AntiTwitter: @DalekDave is now a follower!
Although the younger ones aren't as experienced they no only work cheaper but are willing to work longer to make up for lack of experience. Only problem is once they do get the experience they move on to greener pastures.
The less you need, the more you have. JaxCoder.com
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Quote:
I have frequently at past 40 age (52) coded 2 or 3, 20year olds into the ground.
That's not the question. The question is: would the 52 years old you code into the ground the 30 years old you?
Mircea
quite possibly. I remember working as a 28 year old with a guy who was 50 something. I learned so much from Ron. and he got his crap done and then went home. and I was still struggling. So yes I believe an experienced 50 year old could be 30 year old Rod.
To err is human to really elephant it up you need a computer
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I'm 67 and got my current contract when I was 61 - I've always kept up with the latest tech and I can hold my own with most people - as JSOP once said I'm old I know stuff :-D
"I didn't mention the bats - he'd see them soon enough" - Hunter S Thompson - RIP
I could have written that myself. Over the last 4 years I managed a transition from a desktop programmer to an ASP.NET programmer and made my employers happy. But people look at me and assume I'm over the hill.
Recursion is for programmers who haven't blown enough stacks yet.
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quite possibly. I remember working as a 28 year old with a guy who was 50 something. I learned so much from Ron. and he got his crap done and then went home. and I was still struggling. So yes I believe an experienced 50 year old could be 30 year old Rod.
To err is human to really elephant it up you need a computer
Good for you in this case! In my case, at a point I realized the 30 years old me would run circles around the 60 years old me. I was working for a very good guy/company so I thought I cannot in good conscience ask for a raise. Also, other things outside my work became very important and I decided to draw a line. Each one has a different path but I still believe age is a difficult obstacle to overcome for professional programmers.
Mircea
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Older developers have wives and lives, and aren't as willing to work 60+ hour weeks. Older developers are a lot more skilled, and demand higher salaries. Older developers typically have lower tolerance for corporate absurdity. Older developers are less receptive to "change for the sake of change", and would rather wring every last drop of usefulness out of "legacy" APIs than inject new untested code into the main project branch. Older developers are often viewed as rude and opinionated, when in fact, they're just being pragmatic. Most managers can't even spell "pragmatic". So yeah, it's harder for older developers to find work.
".45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly" - JSOP, 2010
-----
You can never have too much ammo - unless you're swimming, or on fire. - JSOP, 2010
-----
When you pry the gun from my cold dead hands, be careful - the barrel will be very hot. - JSOP, 2013
