DNA sequencing
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I am a curious amateur, knowing "nothing" about advanced biology. But I am curious :-) I still remember the days when there was a race to be the first research institute to do a complete sequencing of human DNA. It took weeks, or maybe it was months. Nowadays, DNA sequencing seems to be as simple as taking a breath. "Everyone" seems to do it in a snap. Covid19 RNA (it is RNA, isn't it? or is it DNA?) is obviously magnitudes below human DNA, but even human DNA sequencing seems to be a piece of cake today, to determine your ancestry, or your disposition of various diseases, or in criminal cases, or for a whole lot of other purposes. Most of this change has come in less than twenty years. What happened? Computers haven't become that much faster! (I got the impression that they are essential as a tool.) Is the speedup in other, non-computer analysis hardware? Or have the scientists developed a completely new methodology that is a magnitude or two faster? Or are those companies offering info about ancestry or disease risk doing only a quick, partial analysis rather than a full sequencing? To phrase it differently: If we twenty years ago had had all the knowledge that we have today about methodologies, would the hardware of the day be capable of sequencing the human genome in a many hours as they did use months, or are the methods of today fully dependent on recent hardware development? (I assume that computer hardware development is only part of it!)
Covid is an RNA virus Back in the day (staring in 1990) the Human Genome Project was labouring to sequence the human genome. However, the technologies they (and others) developed advanced, and in 1998 Craig Venter started a parallel private effort. Depending on what "complete" counts as, he actually published the sequence first. I've seen estimates of the Human Genome Project as costing USD2.7B, but now you can get a full sequence done for < USD1000. So, yeah. If we had today's technology then, stuff would have completed faster. Something short (~30,000 bases) like Covid doesn't take them long anymore - they had the full sequence last January, and they know exactly where the variants differ as well. Ancestry, 23andMe, and the others aren't doing full sequencing though. They're doing a partial method (as you guessed) that involves trying to find specific differences. (They chop up the DNA at specific sequence types, then separate out the remaining chains to find differences).
TTFN - Kent
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I am a curious amateur, knowing "nothing" about advanced biology. But I am curious :-) I still remember the days when there was a race to be the first research institute to do a complete sequencing of human DNA. It took weeks, or maybe it was months. Nowadays, DNA sequencing seems to be as simple as taking a breath. "Everyone" seems to do it in a snap. Covid19 RNA (it is RNA, isn't it? or is it DNA?) is obviously magnitudes below human DNA, but even human DNA sequencing seems to be a piece of cake today, to determine your ancestry, or your disposition of various diseases, or in criminal cases, or for a whole lot of other purposes. Most of this change has come in less than twenty years. What happened? Computers haven't become that much faster! (I got the impression that they are essential as a tool.) Is the speedup in other, non-computer analysis hardware? Or have the scientists developed a completely new methodology that is a magnitude or two faster? Or are those companies offering info about ancestry or disease risk doing only a quick, partial analysis rather than a full sequencing? To phrase it differently: If we twenty years ago had had all the knowledge that we have today about methodologies, would the hardware of the day be capable of sequencing the human genome in a many hours as they did use months, or are the methods of today fully dependent on recent hardware development? (I assume that computer hardware development is only part of it!)
trønderen wrote:
Nowadays, DNA sequencing seems to be as simple as taking a breath. "Everyone" seems to do it in a snap. Covid19 RNA (it is RNA, isn't it? or is it DNA?) is obviously magnitudes below human DNA, but even human DNA sequencing seems to be a piece of cake today, to determine your ancestry, or your disposition of various diseases, or in criminal cases, or for a whole lot of other purposes.
Google "RNA vs DNA".
trønderen wrote:
Most of this change has come in less than twenty years. What happened? Computers haven't become that much faster! (I got the impression that they are essential as a tool.) Is the speedup in other, non-computer analysis hardware? Or have the scientists developed a completely new methodology that is a magnitude or two faster? Or are those companies offering info about ancestry or disease risk doing only a quick, partial analysis rather than a full sequencing?
Computers did increase, as did our knowledge of biology.
trønderen wrote:
To phrase it differently: If we twenty years ago had had all the knowledge that we have today about methodologies, would the hardware of the day be capable of sequencing the human genome in a many hours as they did use months, or are the methods of today fully dependent on recent hardware development? (I assume that computer hardware development is only part of it!)
Twenty years ago is 2001. I'm from 1977. We'd have dealt with it another way; stricter lockdowns, quarantines for entire cities. Let me paint you a (realistic) picture; I'll be vaccinated this month, but the effectiveness of the vaccine is 70%. Nothing like measles. I won't be allowed outside during lockdown, vaccinated or not. For every human it infects, millions of copies (and evolution). If it infects someone vaccinated in those 30%, it may become immune to the vaccine. So after my shot, I still need to stay indoors. I am old enough to remember when every new vaccine was celebrated. We seen the effects of polio. Suddenly, half of our country refuses vaccines without any good reason. This "minor disease" as called here, may turn hostile soon, if we don't stop the amount of people it infects. We need stop spread. We need to stop idiots.
Bastard Programmer from Hell :suss: "If you just follow the bacon Eddy, wherever it leads you, then you won't have to t
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trønderen wrote:
Nowadays, DNA sequencing seems to be as simple as taking a breath. "Everyone" seems to do it in a snap. Covid19 RNA (it is RNA, isn't it? or is it DNA?) is obviously magnitudes below human DNA, but even human DNA sequencing seems to be a piece of cake today, to determine your ancestry, or your disposition of various diseases, or in criminal cases, or for a whole lot of other purposes.
Google "RNA vs DNA".
trønderen wrote:
Most of this change has come in less than twenty years. What happened? Computers haven't become that much faster! (I got the impression that they are essential as a tool.) Is the speedup in other, non-computer analysis hardware? Or have the scientists developed a completely new methodology that is a magnitude or two faster? Or are those companies offering info about ancestry or disease risk doing only a quick, partial analysis rather than a full sequencing?
Computers did increase, as did our knowledge of biology.
trønderen wrote:
To phrase it differently: If we twenty years ago had had all the knowledge that we have today about methodologies, would the hardware of the day be capable of sequencing the human genome in a many hours as they did use months, or are the methods of today fully dependent on recent hardware development? (I assume that computer hardware development is only part of it!)
Twenty years ago is 2001. I'm from 1977. We'd have dealt with it another way; stricter lockdowns, quarantines for entire cities. Let me paint you a (realistic) picture; I'll be vaccinated this month, but the effectiveness of the vaccine is 70%. Nothing like measles. I won't be allowed outside during lockdown, vaccinated or not. For every human it infects, millions of copies (and evolution). If it infects someone vaccinated in those 30%, it may become immune to the vaccine. So after my shot, I still need to stay indoors. I am old enough to remember when every new vaccine was celebrated. We seen the effects of polio. Suddenly, half of our country refuses vaccines without any good reason. This "minor disease" as called here, may turn hostile soon, if we don't stop the amount of people it infects. We need stop spread. We need to stop idiots.
Bastard Programmer from Hell :suss: "If you just follow the bacon Eddy, wherever it leads you, then you won't have to t
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Eddy Vluggen wrote:
We need to stop idiots.
That's what people from both sides of the issue say. :laugh: :laugh:
Imagine the same with polio. Look up what the disease did, and how vaccines killed it. There's no discussion here.
Bastard Programmer from Hell :suss: "If you just follow the bacon Eddy, wherever it leads you, then you won't have to think about politics." -- Some Bell.
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Imagine the same with polio. Look up what the disease did, and how vaccines killed it. There's no discussion here.
Bastard Programmer from Hell :suss: "If you just follow the bacon Eddy, wherever it leads you, then you won't have to think about politics." -- Some Bell.
I say we wear masks forever, and stay in lockdown forever.
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Eddy Vluggen wrote:
We need to stop idiots.
That's what people from both sides of the issue say. :laugh: :laugh:
There is no "both sides of the issue" with this. There are the people who accept the word of experts and doctors on virus behavior and its impact on society, and then the people who deny the reality of it, thinking they know more than the people who study this stuff for their entire lives. You either know what Dunning-Kruger is, or you're on the low end of that spectrum.
Asking questions is a skill CodeProject Forum Guidelines Google: C# How to debug code Seriously, go read these articles.
Dave Kreskowiak -
There is no "both sides of the issue" with this. There are the people who accept the word of experts and doctors on virus behavior and its impact on society, and then the people who deny the reality of it, thinking they know more than the people who study this stuff for their entire lives. You either know what Dunning-Kruger is, or you're on the low end of that spectrum.
Asking questions is a skill CodeProject Forum Guidelines Google: C# How to debug code Seriously, go read these articles.
Dave KreskowiakYou sure told him. :laugh:
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I say we wear masks forever, and stay in lockdown forever.
So, you trouble with history? We could and we won't. Because in time of polio, everyone wanted vaccine.
Slacker007 wrote:
I say we wear masks forever, and stay in lockdown forever.
That's what I expect; if people do not want vaccine nor stick to the rules, the virus will spread, and with spreading it will copy a million times in every new body. And thus, it will evolve faster. And with part of us vaccinated it will evolve beyond that. If just part of us vaccinated and lot infected, it will mutate beyond that. There once was a time where we celebrated new vaccines because they save lives. Congratulations and kudo's to you.
Bastard Programmer from Hell :suss: "If you just follow the bacon Eddy, wherever it leads you, then you won't have to think about politics." -- Some Bell.
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There is no "both sides of the issue" with this. There are the people who accept the word of experts and doctors on virus behavior and its impact on society, and then the people who deny the reality of it, thinking they know more than the people who study this stuff for their entire lives. You either know what Dunning-Kruger is, or you're on the low end of that spectrum.
Asking questions is a skill CodeProject Forum Guidelines Google: C# How to debug code Seriously, go read these articles.
Dave KreskowiakDave Kreskowiak wrote:
There is no "both sides of the issue" with this
True, there's only science.
Dave Kreskowiak wrote:
Thereare the people who accept the word of experts and doctors on virus behavior and its impact on society, and then the people who deny the reality of it
So, the people who accept science, and the religious ones. This is not a discussion; it about whether you accept science, with all it's proof, or go for religion without any. There's no middle ground here. And frankly, those that do believe, should be left to their gods. --edit
Dave Kreskowiak wrote:
You either know what Dunning-Kruger is, or you're on the low end of that spectrum.
The Dunning-Kruger effect is a cognitive bias (thought error or bias), in which people who lack knowledge and have poor skills in social or intellectual areas incorrectly overestimate these characteristics and abilities in themselves
Which you proven. Quod Eddy Demonstrandum. Did you have more to add?
Bastard Programmer from Hell :suss: "If you just follow the bacon Eddy, wherever it leads you, then you won't have to think about politics." -- Some Bell.
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So, you trouble with history? We could and we won't. Because in time of polio, everyone wanted vaccine.
Slacker007 wrote:
I say we wear masks forever, and stay in lockdown forever.
That's what I expect; if people do not want vaccine nor stick to the rules, the virus will spread, and with spreading it will copy a million times in every new body. And thus, it will evolve faster. And with part of us vaccinated it will evolve beyond that. If just part of us vaccinated and lot infected, it will mutate beyond that. There once was a time where we celebrated new vaccines because they save lives. Congratulations and kudo's to you.
Bastard Programmer from Hell :suss: "If you just follow the bacon Eddy, wherever it leads you, then you won't have to think about politics." -- Some Bell.
:zzz: you bore me Eddy. You bore me to :((
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:zzz: you bore me Eddy. You bore me to :((
Then quit reading and responding to what he writes.
The Science of King David's Court | Object Oriented Programming with C++
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:zzz: you bore me Eddy. You bore me to :((
Slacker007 wrote:
:zzz: you bore me Eddy. You bore me to :((
Quit dreaming, I'll never bore into sh*t.
Bastard Programmer from Hell :suss: "If you just follow the bacon Eddy, wherever it leads you, then you won't have to think about politics." -- Some Bell.
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Dave Kreskowiak wrote:
There is no "both sides of the issue" with this
True, there's only science.
Dave Kreskowiak wrote:
Thereare the people who accept the word of experts and doctors on virus behavior and its impact on society, and then the people who deny the reality of it
So, the people who accept science, and the religious ones. This is not a discussion; it about whether you accept science, with all it's proof, or go for religion without any. There's no middle ground here. And frankly, those that do believe, should be left to their gods. --edit
Dave Kreskowiak wrote:
You either know what Dunning-Kruger is, or you're on the low end of that spectrum.
The Dunning-Kruger effect is a cognitive bias (thought error or bias), in which people who lack knowledge and have poor skills in social or intellectual areas incorrectly overestimate these characteristics and abilities in themselves
Which you proven. Quod Eddy Demonstrandum. Did you have more to add?
Bastard Programmer from Hell :suss: "If you just follow the bacon Eddy, wherever it leads you, then you won't have to think about politics." -- Some Bell.
Maybe I have understood it completely wrong, but I think he was backing you up as his message is for 20212's answer to your first comment. As I already have said a couple of times... try to take it easy Eddy, you are not being "attacked" by the whole CP
M.D.V. ;) If something has a solution... Why do we have to worry about?. If it has no solution... For what reason do we have to worry about? Help me to understand what I'm saying, and I'll explain it better to you Rating helpful answers is nice, but saying thanks can be even nicer.
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I am a curious amateur, knowing "nothing" about advanced biology. But I am curious :-) I still remember the days when there was a race to be the first research institute to do a complete sequencing of human DNA. It took weeks, or maybe it was months. Nowadays, DNA sequencing seems to be as simple as taking a breath. "Everyone" seems to do it in a snap. Covid19 RNA (it is RNA, isn't it? or is it DNA?) is obviously magnitudes below human DNA, but even human DNA sequencing seems to be a piece of cake today, to determine your ancestry, or your disposition of various diseases, or in criminal cases, or for a whole lot of other purposes. Most of this change has come in less than twenty years. What happened? Computers haven't become that much faster! (I got the impression that they are essential as a tool.) Is the speedup in other, non-computer analysis hardware? Or have the scientists developed a completely new methodology that is a magnitude or two faster? Or are those companies offering info about ancestry or disease risk doing only a quick, partial analysis rather than a full sequencing? To phrase it differently: If we twenty years ago had had all the knowledge that we have today about methodologies, would the hardware of the day be capable of sequencing the human genome in a many hours as they did use months, or are the methods of today fully dependent on recent hardware development? (I assume that computer hardware development is only part of it!)
Nowadays you can buy an affordable DNA sequencer on alibaba or even make it by yourself :cool: You can even play with gene modification at home. Guess what's the next generation of script kiddies is going to be ;)
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There is no "both sides of the issue" with this. There are the people who accept the word of experts and doctors on virus behavior and its impact on society, and then the people who deny the reality of it, thinking they know more than the people who study this stuff for their entire lives. You either know what Dunning-Kruger is, or you're on the low end of that spectrum.
Asking questions is a skill CodeProject Forum Guidelines Google: C# How to debug code Seriously, go read these articles.
Dave KreskowiakDave Kreskowiak wrote:
There is no "both sides of the issue" with this.
Really?
Dave Kreskowiak wrote:
There are the people who accept the word of experts and doctors on virus behavior and its impact on society,
That's one side.
Dave Kreskowiak wrote:
and then the people who deny the reality of it
And that looks like another side. :laugh:
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Imagine the same with polio. Look up what the disease did, and how vaccines killed it. There's no discussion here.
Bastard Programmer from Hell :suss: "If you just follow the bacon Eddy, wherever it leads you, then you won't have to think about politics." -- Some Bell.
Eddy Vluggen wrote:
Imagine the same with polio.
Polio and covid cannot be compared this way.
Eddy Vluggen wrote:
There's no discussion here.
Yes, I am seeing that pattern with you. My only point was that you call people who think Covid is not as bad as you do idiots, and they call you an idiot. Possibly both sides are right. :laugh:
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Then quit reading and responding to what he writes.
The Science of King David's Court | Object Oriented Programming with C++
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You sure told him. :laugh:
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Eddy Vluggen wrote:
Imagine the same with polio.
Polio and covid cannot be compared this way.
Eddy Vluggen wrote:
There's no discussion here.
Yes, I am seeing that pattern with you. My only point was that you call people who think Covid is not as bad as you do idiots, and they call you an idiot. Possibly both sides are right. :laugh:
20212 wrote:
Possibly both sides are right. :laugh:
Sorry, Spanky. Deadly diseases do not behave like Schroedinger's Cat
"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein
"If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010
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So, you trouble with history? We could and we won't. Because in time of polio, everyone wanted vaccine.
Slacker007 wrote:
I say we wear masks forever, and stay in lockdown forever.
That's what I expect; if people do not want vaccine nor stick to the rules, the virus will spread, and with spreading it will copy a million times in every new body. And thus, it will evolve faster. And with part of us vaccinated it will evolve beyond that. If just part of us vaccinated and lot infected, it will mutate beyond that. There once was a time where we celebrated new vaccines because they save lives. Congratulations and kudo's to you.
Bastard Programmer from Hell :suss: "If you just follow the bacon Eddy, wherever it leads you, then you won't have to think about politics." -- Some Bell.
Even back when we had a soapbox, when he found himself shyte-faced, his answer was just his often-used hiding place of being dismissive. To a varying (but considerable) degrees, it's the cult/conspiracy mentality. Anything that contradicts the dogma is party to the conspiracy and thus dismissed - eyes wired closed. Or, for some who think they've not been totally indoctrinated, they just try to ridicule what they don't agree with, then believe their own evasive position as being some equivalence of proof. If you look not only in the US, but throughout the world, COVID isn't the only deadly disease going around - the likely more dangerous one is in heads (and I don't mean a head-cold).
"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein
"If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010