New Days Dawning
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Mrs and I just got back a short time ago from our second COVID vaccinations. Two different locations, two different vaccines and over two hours travel each way. Now, possible side effects (if we already had a strong response to first shot) and two weeks induction period and, well, there's family to see alive and in person. Grandchildren to hold. Still some cautions are in order but the draconian measures can be put aside.
"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein
"If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010
We got our second shots about a month ago. I don't care what the nay-sayers have to say about it, it's a relief to know that you are much less likely to get it, and if you do get it, it is very unlikely to be so severe that you will end up in hospital. :java:
Get me coffee and no one gets hurt!
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Science constantly adapts to incorporate the latest findings, or at least it should. Every age thinks it has found incontrovertible truths, particularly when touted as "science". Skeptics are then derided as "science deniers". There used to be alchemy, phrenology, eugenics, and a raft of other things now dismissed as claptrap. Science has also been politicized since at least Galileo. Things that challenge the rulers are suppressed, and this continues today with so much science being funded by the state. If you want to put your faith whatever is currently being called The Truth, and attack anyone that even hints at questioning it, may your echo chamber not reverberate too loudly and keep you from your sleep.
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The fox knows many things, but the hedgehog knows one big thing.Well, it's the best we've got at the time. If it were so dubious why do you trust your keyboard and computer and all the rest. Picking and choosing, particularly in fields where one's expertise is "questionable" is not going to be justified by a tome that effectively shows things are getting better.
Greg Utas wrote:
things that challenge the rulers are suppressed,
If ever there was a sign of ripeness for conspiracy theories, that statement is it. Not that it's never been true - but, again, it justifies nothing - yet another "straw-man".
"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein
"If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010
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Hang on a minute... The Earth is not a cube it's flat! Oh no, what have I started now? :-D
“That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence.”
― Christopher Hitchens
The earth is a toroid - basically a giant doughnut waiting to be eaten by a fat giant deity long since dismissed as non-existent. Pray he doesn't dunk, first.
"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein
"If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010
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W∴ Balboos, GHB wrote:
Still some cautions are in order but the draconian measures can be put aside.
I'm not so sure about that. :( The Confusing Dr. Fauci – Marc Clifton[^]
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Well, it's the best we've got at the time. If it were so dubious why do you trust your keyboard and computer and all the rest. Picking and choosing, particularly in fields where one's expertise is "questionable" is not going to be justified by a tome that effectively shows things are getting better.
Greg Utas wrote:
things that challenge the rulers are suppressed,
If ever there was a sign of ripeness for conspiracy theories, that statement is it. Not that it's never been true - but, again, it justifies nothing - yet another "straw-man".
"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein
"If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010
I trust my computer and other things from first-hand experience. What I'm told by state apparatchiks and politicians, I take with a healthy dose of skepticism. They simply lie and spin things too often. It's not really a question of choosing what science to believe, but whom to believe. There isn't time to properly investigate everything oneself, so that's what it often reverts to.
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The fox knows many things, but the hedgehog knows one big thing. -
I trust my computer and other things from first-hand experience. What I'm told by state apparatchiks and politicians, I take with a healthy dose of skepticism. They simply lie and spin things too often. It's not really a question of choosing what science to believe, but whom to believe. There isn't time to properly investigate everything oneself, so that's what it often reverts to.
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The fox knows many things, but the hedgehog knows one big thing.Greg Utas wrote:
so that's what it often reverts to.
So you only accept what you have personally experienced. In case of serious accident or injury, I suppose that applies to medical care, too? I mean, you may not have ever undergone surgery. How can you possibly believe it's real?* Relying on "first hand experience" is going to limit you life's horizons to an extraordinary degree! Option (2) - you don't actually mean the first-hand experience things and therefore pick and choose through personal preferences for reality and and "gut feelings". Option (3) ? ? ? . * Why in the world would you believe arsenic is deadly or heroine is addictive?
"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein
"If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010
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Well, if you expected perfection in the vaccine, even if it had the five-year period to check for long-term effects and such, you'll never be satisfied. Especially if you nit-pick the words. And, in fact, by implication, modify the intent of the statement. The vaccine protects the vaccinated by both preventing the disease, but even more importantly, by all but eliminating the serious illness levels. For me, all along that's what I'd hoped for. An effective treatment is the most valuable commodity. Even the lesser-effective vaccines (J&J, AstraZeneca) virtually eliminate the most lethal aspects of the disease. The disease that some called a hoax, and little more than the flu . . . Faucci, in fact, presents things very much as he should - this is a story still unfolding. Whilst lives are being snuffed out on the millions-scale, a certain amount of proactivity (as in caution) is necessary to hopefully stay ahead of the monster. I've watched the denial of this horrid reality take the form of "they had pre-existing conditions - that's what killed them". Yeah - like a person with a kidney disease being hit by a car - they, too, had a per-existing condition. Others put the economy ahead of their (and especially, other people's) lives. And you look for inconsistencies in nuance as proof of . . . well . . . what? Now, getting directly back to your comment (aside from your video): as of now, it's not full understood if a fully vaccinated person can shed active virus should they get the disease (remember, 95% is not 100%). So - maybe I'll get it and maybe be shedding it - but if wearing a masks and keeping my distance when amongst my fellow mortals may save them some long-term misery, or even their life, I can handle the inconvenience. You're looking for every opportunity to discredit those willing to be cautious - a sad commentary of our times that thoughtfulness and insight are nuanced out of existence by, lets face it, politics. The political view of a corpse is, I suspect, very much akin to "OH SH!T !".
"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein
"If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Ma
It's really more that I would prefer simply the truth - the vaccine protects you from serious illness or death, but we're still going to have to wear masks and socially distance because the vaccine doesn't prevent you from spreading the virus to others.
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It's like your warning labels, it's for your lawyers. He has to say it. In reality it's about probability. The probability that the vaccine is working is 90-95%. So that's a 90-95% lowered risk of getting sick at all. And if you get sick it's a 90-95% lower risk of getting hospitalized. You also have a 90-95% lower risk of spreading it to other people. But it's not 0! And this is the point. Until the spread in society has gone down there's still a risk. So stay with the measures until a majority has been vaccinated. That'll happen soon enough. Also, you're a logical person, you should get this.
Wrong is evil and must be defeated. - Jeff Ello
Jörgen Andersson wrote:
It's like your warning labels, it's for your lawyers. He has to say it.
Well, a law was passed the eliminates any liability by vaccine producers, so no lawyers need to get involved. ;P
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It's really more that I would prefer simply the truth - the vaccine protects you from serious illness or death, but we're still going to have to wear masks and socially distance because the vaccine doesn't prevent you from spreading the virus to others.
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Client-Side Type-Based Publisher/Subscriber, Exploring Synchronous, "Event-ed", and Worker Thread SubscriptionsSo far as is know, correct. Hence my dropping some of the more draconian measures (aging mail and sanitizing food packaging by various means from hypochlorite to sitting around in a bag for a few days). The latest CDC announcement, no doubt you have or will shortly hear, is that people who have all been vaccinated can gather mask-less (etc.) in indoor groups. In an imaginary world full of sane people, isn't that what we all wish to be able to safely do?
"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein
"If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010
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Greg Utas wrote:
so that's what it often reverts to.
So you only accept what you have personally experienced. In case of serious accident or injury, I suppose that applies to medical care, too? I mean, you may not have ever undergone surgery. How can you possibly believe it's real?* Relying on "first hand experience" is going to limit you life's horizons to an extraordinary degree! Option (2) - you don't actually mean the first-hand experience things and therefore pick and choose through personal preferences for reality and and "gut feelings". Option (3) ? ? ? . * Why in the world would you believe arsenic is deadly or heroine is addictive?
"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein
"If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010
"What it reverts to" means deciding whom to trust in the absence of first-hand experience. That's something we all have to do often. Politicians and apparatchiks are near the bottom of my list for whom to trust, whereas your list seems to be ranked a little different.
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The fox knows many things, but the hedgehog knows one big thing. -
Jörgen Andersson wrote:
It's like your warning labels, it's for your lawyers. He has to say it.
Well, a law was passed the eliminates any liability by vaccine producers, so no lawyers need to get involved. ;P
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Client-Side Type-Based Publisher/Subscriber, Exploring Synchronous, "Event-ed", and Worker Thread SubscriptionsSo. Someone else has to take the responsibility instead. I guess the state. That makes the statrment even more important. For the state. Lawyers will find a way to involve themselves. ;P
Wrong is evil and must be defeated. - Jeff Ello
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"What it reverts to" means deciding whom to trust in the absence of first-hand experience. That's something we all have to do often. Politicians and apparatchiks are near the bottom of my list for whom to trust, whereas your list seems to be ranked a little different.
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The fox knows many things, but the hedgehog knows one big thing.Greg Utas wrote:
apparatchiks
and all that goes with it. Here (in US) we have a two-party system and now, more than ever before, hate one another. And then we also have the real civil service (non-appointees) who's jobs are protected by OPM (office of personnel management). That system is why Trump couldn't fire Faucci. He was civil-service. In fact, we have a thing called The Hatch Act (which Ronald Reagan tried to get rid of). It forbids a civil service employee from taking part in partisan politics: they can lose their position. That means they cannot be threatened into it or risk their jobs. Rather clever, actually. They may take part in non-partisan concerns (Save the Whales or Rebuild America's Highways, for example). And they can vote how they please - but they may not campaign for any political party. Perhaps your experiences are different - especially with that Soviet Era (and current Russia?) reference. Unlike the police or medical professionals, real scientists wash their dirty laundry in public - and fortunately, as it is science, the right answer can (eventually) be proven (or, if you wish to be strict, the wrong answer can be disproven). Maybe it's different in your piece of the world.
"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein
"If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010
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So. Someone else has to take the responsibility instead. I guess the state. That makes the statrment even more important. For the state. Lawyers will find a way to involve themselves. ;P
Wrong is evil and must be defeated. - Jeff Ello
Actually the state is immune (no pun intended) as well. The only recourse people have in the US is https://www.hrsa.gov/vaccine-compensation/index.html[^] run by the Health Resources and Service Administration
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So far as is know, correct. Hence my dropping some of the more draconian measures (aging mail and sanitizing food packaging by various means from hypochlorite to sitting around in a bag for a few days). The latest CDC announcement, no doubt you have or will shortly hear, is that people who have all been vaccinated can gather mask-less (etc.) in indoor groups. In an imaginary world full of sane people, isn't that what we all wish to be able to safely do?
"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein
"If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010
W∴ Balboos, GHB wrote:
aging mail and sanitizing food packaging by various means from hypochlorite to sitting around in a bag for a few days
Wow. We never had that suggested here in the US, AFAIK.
W∴ Balboos, GHB wrote:
is that people who have all been vaccinated can gather mask-less (etc.) in indoor groups
Yes, been reading that, waiting for the guidance to actually be approved.
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Greg Utas wrote:
apparatchiks
and all that goes with it. Here (in US) we have a two-party system and now, more than ever before, hate one another. And then we also have the real civil service (non-appointees) who's jobs are protected by OPM (office of personnel management). That system is why Trump couldn't fire Faucci. He was civil-service. In fact, we have a thing called The Hatch Act (which Ronald Reagan tried to get rid of). It forbids a civil service employee from taking part in partisan politics: they can lose their position. That means they cannot be threatened into it or risk their jobs. Rather clever, actually. They may take part in non-partisan concerns (Save the Whales or Rebuild America's Highways, for example). And they can vote how they please - but they may not campaign for any political party. Perhaps your experiences are different - especially with that Soviet Era (and current Russia?) reference. Unlike the police or medical professionals, real scientists wash their dirty laundry in public - and fortunately, as it is science, the right answer can (eventually) be proven (or, if you wish to be strict, the wrong answer can be disproven). Maybe it's different in your piece of the world.
"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein
"If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010
I lived in the US for 15 years, and what you're talking about is theory. Practice tends to be different. Witness the Constitution, which would be great hadn't it been gutted by SCOTUS lapdogs going back a long way. I write apparatchiks because state employees are pretty much the same the world over, very reluctant to contradict the government's narrative.
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The fox knows many things, but the hedgehog knows one big thing. -
W∴ Balboos, GHB wrote:
aging mail and sanitizing food packaging by various means from hypochlorite to sitting around in a bag for a few days
Wow. We never had that suggested here in the US, AFAIK.
W∴ Balboos, GHB wrote:
is that people who have all been vaccinated can gather mask-less (etc.) in indoor groups
Yes, been reading that, waiting for the guidance to actually be approved.
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Client-Side Type-Based Publisher/Subscriber, Exploring Synchronous, "Event-ed", and Worker Thread SubscriptionsSpecific implementation is based upon my background (chemistry) and common sense. Initially it was something I treated like the flu in terms of contagion: gotten from surfaces and rubbed into eyes. There wasn't much data to go on. For sealed impervious containers (like juice, milk, etc.) we sprayed with a cleaner containing about 1 1/2% Sodium Hypochlorite (bleach) and cycled through the bunch of them (for a single trip) and rinsed them. This kills virtually anything (except, perhaps, prions) almost instantly. Dry and into the fridge. Frozen food: bagged plastic got the bleach treatment but boxed couldn't withstand that. Instead, opened, slid contents out to a clean surface, and threw away the boxes. Produce: things like berries in a vented box and such, along with boxed food that needed to be refrigerated but couldn't be sprayed or repackaged got the sanitizing wipe treatment. Produce without packaging - wiped down the outer package. Finally, dry goods were just left to allow the virus to die. Several days, at least. Same for mail. Once organized it was quickly routine and no big hassle to continue. Again, I don't think like other people (good for a laugh if you post carefully!). Although direct data wasn't available for COVID I checked about its lifetime on surfaces at room temp vs. refrigerated vs. frozen. It may die in hours to days at room temp but in a fridge it could easily extend (as a virus) to a week or longer. Frozen - not clear answer: preservation vs. disruption. Err towards cautin. Cleaning doornobs? Hardly because ours are brass and they kill virus' rather quickly (as does copper). Also, with no visitors, what's to clean? The implication about getting COVID from surfaces was heavily downplayed. They conventional wisdom is that it was airborne and surface transmission wasn't a serious problem. Just keep your hands off your face - except I'm a veteran eye-rubber. So all the cleaning and waiting will fall by the wayside on or about March 22nd. Same for gloves when going out to shop. Masks, however, in place, when in public - I am my brothers' keeper. (too much detail but we made it this far)
"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein
"If you are searching for perfection in other
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W∴ Balboos, GHB wrote:
aging mail and sanitizing food packaging by various means from hypochlorite to sitting around in a bag for a few days
Wow. We never had that suggested here in the US, AFAIK.
W∴ Balboos, GHB wrote:
is that people who have all been vaccinated can gather mask-less (etc.) in indoor groups
Yes, been reading that, waiting for the guidance to actually be approved.
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Client-Side Type-Based Publisher/Subscriber, Exploring Synchronous, "Event-ed", and Worker Thread SubscriptionsThis just in (my inbox) CDC Guidance (via Medscape):
According to the new guidance, people who are at least 2 weeks out from their last dose can:* Visit with other fully vaccinated people indoors without wearing masks or physical distancing.
- Visit with unvaccinated people from a single household who are at low risk for severe COVID-19 disease indoors without wearing masks or physical distancing
- Avoid quarantine and testing following exposure to someone if they remain asymptomatic.
Along with this:
However, there are still restrictions that will remain until further data is collected. Those who are fully vaccinated must still:* Wear masks and physically distance in public settings and around people at high risk for severe disease.
- Wear masks and physically distance when visiting unvaccinated people from more than one household.
- Avoid medium- and large-sized gatherings.
- Avoid travel.
"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein
"If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010
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Mrs and I just got back a short time ago from our second COVID vaccinations. Two different locations, two different vaccines and over two hours travel each way. Now, possible side effects (if we already had a strong response to first shot) and two weeks induction period and, well, there's family to see alive and in person. Grandchildren to hold. Still some cautions are in order but the draconian measures can be put aside.
"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein
"If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010
W∴ Balboos, GHB wrote:
COVID vaccinations
Government tracking implants? :-D
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I lived in the US for 15 years, and what you're talking about is theory. Practice tends to be different. Witness the Constitution, which would be great hadn't it been gutted by SCOTUS lapdogs going back a long way. I write apparatchiks because state employees are pretty much the same the world over, very reluctant to contradict the government's narrative.
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The fox knows many things, but the hedgehog knows one big thing.Comrade Utas, we've crossed well past the limits of Lounge.
"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein
"If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010
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W∴ Balboos, GHB wrote:
COVID vaccinations
Government tracking implants? :-D
They're just fools - they were implanted at birth with tracking devices. That alien technology was brought to the world in the early 20th century and full implementation came about with the all-but-mandatory outside-assistance in giving birth. Foil hats won't help. Hint: foil underwear.
"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein
"If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010
