Why are so many peopel appearing to suddenly learn C as a first language?
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I can't think of a much worse choice: and old fashioned language, that is only used for specialist stuff these days, and which needs a considerable amount of experience to get a job in? That just doesn't make a lot of sense to me ... but look at QA and there are loads of 'em ...
"I have no idea what I did, but I'm taking full credit for it." - ThisOldTony "Common sense is so rare these days, it should be classified as a super power" - Random T-shirt AntiTwitter: @DalekDave is now a follower!
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I can't think of a much worse choice: and old fashioned language, that is only used for specialist stuff these days, and which needs a considerable amount of experience to get a job in? That just doesn't make a lot of sense to me ... but look at QA and there are loads of 'em ...
"I have no idea what I did, but I'm taking full credit for it." - ThisOldTony "Common sense is so rare these days, it should be classified as a super power" - Random T-shirt AntiTwitter: @DalekDave is now a follower!
Maybe it's not their first language? Perhaps they just failed at everything else and this is what's left before they try assembler, direct binary code entry, or working as a bus-boy. You know - whatever works out for them.
"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein
"If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010
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I can't think of a much worse choice: and old fashioned language, that is only used for specialist stuff these days, and which needs a considerable amount of experience to get a job in? That just doesn't make a lot of sense to me ... but look at QA and there are loads of 'em ...
"I have no idea what I did, but I'm taking full credit for it." - ThisOldTony "Common sense is so rare these days, it should be classified as a super power" - Random T-shirt AntiTwitter: @DalekDave is now a follower!
OriginalGriff wrote:
that is only used for specialist stuff these days
The whole embedded universe. Companies fight to get C programmers, because there are no more. And if they have assembler experience expect the fight to become bloody. There is more need of firmware engineers than of another JavaScript Kiddie.
GCS d--(d+) s-/++ a C++++ U+++ P- L+@ E-- W++ N+ o+ K- w+++ O? M-- V? PS+ PE- Y+ PGP t+ 5? X R+++ tv-- b+(+++) DI+++ D++ G e++ h--- r+++ y+++* Weapons extension: ma- k++ F+2 X
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I can't think of a much worse choice: and old fashioned language, that is only used for specialist stuff these days, and which needs a considerable amount of experience to get a job in? That just doesn't make a lot of sense to me ... but look at QA and there are loads of 'em ...
"I have no idea what I did, but I'm taking full credit for it." - ThisOldTony "Common sense is so rare these days, it should be classified as a super power" - Random T-shirt AntiTwitter: @DalekDave is now a follower!
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OriginalGriff wrote:
that is only used for specialist stuff these days
The whole embedded universe. Companies fight to get C programmers, because there are no more. And if they have assembler experience expect the fight to become bloody. There is more need of firmware engineers than of another JavaScript Kiddie.
GCS d--(d+) s-/++ a C++++ U+++ P- L+@ E-- W++ N+ o+ K- w+++ O? M-- V? PS+ PE- Y+ PGP t+ 5? X R+++ tv-- b+(+++) DI+++ D++ G e++ h--- r+++ y+++* Weapons extension: ma- k++ F+2 X
Yes. Specialist stuff. That you need good solid real-time embedded experience to work with, and if you don't have that ... you aren't going to produce anything the even works, let alone is useful. You and I both know how little desktop experience carries over to the embedded world where even using malloc is a recipe for fragmented memory and an app that crashes every week because there isn't a fragment of memory big enough left out of the tiny amount you started with. :laugh:
"I have no idea what I did, but I'm taking full credit for it." - ThisOldTony "Common sense is so rare these days, it should be classified as a super power" - Random T-shirt AntiTwitter: @DalekDave is now a follower!
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I can't think of a much worse choice: and old fashioned language, that is only used for specialist stuff these days, and which needs a considerable amount of experience to get a job in? That just doesn't make a lot of sense to me ... but look at QA and there are loads of 'em ...
"I have no idea what I did, but I'm taking full credit for it." - ThisOldTony "Common sense is so rare these days, it should be classified as a super power" - Random T-shirt AntiTwitter: @DalekDave is now a follower!
I didn't, BASIC commodre & BBC (well Acorn Electron!), Only started with C when I had an Amiga and wanted do something that was a hugh 68K assembly job (possibly a raster colour bank). C was the first language at Uni, which is probably where these comments, question come from. People learning to program by being taught, rather than peeking under the lid.
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Yes. Specialist stuff. That you need good solid real-time embedded experience to work with, and if you don't have that ... you aren't going to produce anything the even works, let alone is useful. You and I both know how little desktop experience carries over to the embedded world where even using malloc is a recipe for fragmented memory and an app that crashes every week because there isn't a fragment of memory big enough left out of the tiny amount you started with. :laugh:
"I have no idea what I did, but I'm taking full credit for it." - ThisOldTony "Common sense is so rare these days, it should be classified as a super power" - Random T-shirt AntiTwitter: @DalekDave is now a follower!
True, but still C is a prerequisite to develop firmware, the rest is "easily" adjusted - i.e. I was baffled when I saw most functions using static local variable, until I discovered that stack space is carefully calculated and allocated to the byte (well, roughly) during configuration phase. Avoiding malloc and free is also quite easy, heck it's easier to not use them, especially considering how C programming is taught even in Computer Engineering courses. And the hard core real time skill is needed only in a few critical parts of the system, all the rest is rote C code that also needs to be fast. I have no training on any real time systems and yet developed 2 firmwares very successfully, the BSP layer was already provided by the manifacturer. I just had to mind performance a bit more than usual. And scheduling is a breeze, it's really a single thread system with timed cyclic functions.
GCS d--(d+) s-/++ a C++++ U+++ P- L+@ E-- W++ N+ o+ K- w+++ O? M-- V? PS+ PE- Y+ PGP t+ 5? X R+++ tv-- b+(+++) DI+++ D++ G e++ h--- r+++ y+++* Weapons extension: ma- k++ F+2 X
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I can't think of a much worse choice: and old fashioned language, that is only used for specialist stuff these days, and which needs a considerable amount of experience to get a job in? That just doesn't make a lot of sense to me ... but look at QA and there are loads of 'em ...
"I have no idea what I did, but I'm taking full credit for it." - ThisOldTony "Common sense is so rare these days, it should be classified as a super power" - Random T-shirt AntiTwitter: @DalekDave is now a follower!
It's all the fault of Slant: best-programming-language-to-learn-first[^] :-\
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OriginalGriff wrote:
that is only used for specialist stuff these days
The whole embedded universe. Companies fight to get C programmers, because there are no more. And if they have assembler experience expect the fight to become bloody. There is more need of firmware engineers than of another JavaScript Kiddie.
GCS d--(d+) s-/++ a C++++ U+++ P- L+@ E-- W++ N+ o+ K- w+++ O? M-- V? PS+ PE- Y+ PGP t+ 5? X R+++ tv-- b+(+++) DI+++ D++ G e++ h--- r+++ y+++* Weapons extension: ma- k++ F+2 X
den2k88 wrote:
whole embedded universe.
:thumbsup:
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I can't think of a much worse choice: and old fashioned language, that is only used for specialist stuff these days, and which needs a considerable amount of experience to get a job in? That just doesn't make a lot of sense to me ... but look at QA and there are loads of 'em ...
"I have no idea what I did, but I'm taking full credit for it." - ThisOldTony "Common sense is so rare these days, it should be classified as a super power" - Random T-shirt AntiTwitter: @DalekDave is now a follower!
OriginalGriff wrote:
Why are so many peopel ...
Yeah, I agree. More peopel should learn ENGLISH as a first language... ;P
Anything that is unrelated to elephants is irrelephant
Anonymous
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The problem with quotes on the internet is that you can never tell if they're genuine
Winston Churchill, 1944
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Never argue with a fool. Onlookers may not be able to tell the difference.
Mark Twain -
OriginalGriff wrote:
that is only used for specialist stuff these days
The whole embedded universe. Companies fight to get C programmers, because there are no more. And if they have assembler experience expect the fight to become bloody. There is more need of firmware engineers than of another JavaScript Kiddie.
GCS d--(d+) s-/++ a C++++ U+++ P- L+@ E-- W++ N+ o+ K- w+++ O? M-- V? PS+ PE- Y+ PGP t+ 5? X R+++ tv-- b+(+++) DI+++ D++ G e++ h--- r+++ y+++* Weapons extension: ma- k++ F+2 X
And if you have electronic experience you can pretty much write your own check!
The less you need, the more you have. JaxCoder.com
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And if you have electronic experience you can pretty much write your own check!
The less you need, the more you have. JaxCoder.com
And I'm missing that. Totally inept in electronics thanks to id-10t professor both in high school and University. Whatever I learnt has been on the job.
GCS d--(d+) s-/++ a C++++ U+++ P- L+@ E-- W++ N+ o+ K- w+++ O? M-- V? PS+ PE- Y+ PGP t+ 5? X R+++ tv-- b+(+++) DI+++ D++ G e++ h--- r+++ y+++* Weapons extension: ma- k++ F+2 X
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OriginalGriff wrote:
Why are so many peopel ...
Yeah, I agree. More peopel should learn ENGLISH as a first language... ;P
Anything that is unrelated to elephants is irrelephant
Anonymous
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The problem with quotes on the internet is that you can never tell if they're genuine
Winston Churchill, 1944
-----
Never argue with a fool. Onlookers may not be able to tell the difference.
Mark TwainEnglish is my first language. Spelling is about my fourteenth ... :-O
"I have no idea what I did, but I'm taking full credit for it." - ThisOldTony "Common sense is so rare these days, it should be classified as a super power" - Random T-shirt AntiTwitter: @DalekDave is now a follower!
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And I'm missing that. Totally inept in electronics thanks to id-10t professor both in high school and University. Whatever I learnt has been on the job.
GCS d--(d+) s-/++ a C++++ U+++ P- L+@ E-- W++ N+ o+ K- w+++ O? M-- V? PS+ PE- Y+ PGP t+ 5? X R+++ tv-- b+(+++) DI+++ D++ G e++ h--- r+++ y+++* Weapons extension: ma- k++ F+2 X
I was lucky enough in my younger years to work with some electrical engineers that had the patience to help me. But I took a job here in FL 35 years ago that didn't require any electronic knowledge so I lost a lot over the years. But I picked it back up about 5 years or so ago and have tried to catch up...but I enjoy it so I take it at my own pace.
The less you need, the more you have. JaxCoder.com
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I was lucky enough in my younger years to work with some electrical engineers that had the patience to help me. But I took a job here in FL 35 years ago that didn't require any electronic knowledge so I lost a lot over the years. But I picked it back up about 5 years or so ago and have tried to catch up...but I enjoy it so I take it at my own pace.
The less you need, the more you have. JaxCoder.com
If you don't do something for a long time you seem to lose the necessary skills. For instance, after living and working in Germany for 6 years I became fluent in German. Then I moved to the US, hardly spoke a word of it for 25+ years and now can hardly remember any of it. If I hear it in a movie I get this vague feeling of recognition, but the detail has gone. However, I got on a bicycle after 30 years of no bike riding and could immediately ride it with no problems. Go figure!
- I would love to change the world, but they won’t give me the source code.
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True, but still C is a prerequisite to develop firmware, the rest is "easily" adjusted - i.e. I was baffled when I saw most functions using static local variable, until I discovered that stack space is carefully calculated and allocated to the byte (well, roughly) during configuration phase. Avoiding malloc and free is also quite easy, heck it's easier to not use them, especially considering how C programming is taught even in Computer Engineering courses. And the hard core real time skill is needed only in a few critical parts of the system, all the rest is rote C code that also needs to be fast. I have no training on any real time systems and yet developed 2 firmwares very successfully, the BSP layer was already provided by the manifacturer. I just had to mind performance a bit more than usual. And scheduling is a breeze, it's really a single thread system with timed cyclic functions.
GCS d--(d+) s-/++ a C++++ U+++ P- L+@ E-- W++ N+ o+ K- w+++ O? M-- V? PS+ PE- Y+ PGP t+ 5? X R+++ tv-- b+(+++) DI+++ D++ G e++ h--- r+++ y+++* Weapons extension: ma- k++ F+2 X
WElcome to my world :-)
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I can't think of a much worse choice: and old fashioned language, that is only used for specialist stuff these days, and which needs a considerable amount of experience to get a job in? That just doesn't make a lot of sense to me ... but look at QA and there are loads of 'em ...
"I have no idea what I did, but I'm taking full credit for it." - ThisOldTony "Common sense is so rare these days, it should be classified as a super power" - Random T-shirt AntiTwitter: @DalekDave is now a follower!
Would you rather learn to drive on a Tesla Model X or on a Subaru Impreza ?
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Would you rather learn to drive on a Tesla Model X or on a Subaru Impreza ?
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I can't think of a much worse choice: and old fashioned language, that is only used for specialist stuff these days, and which needs a considerable amount of experience to get a job in? That just doesn't make a lot of sense to me ... but look at QA and there are loads of 'em ...
"I have no idea what I did, but I'm taking full credit for it." - ThisOldTony "Common sense is so rare these days, it should be classified as a super power" - Random T-shirt AntiTwitter: @DalekDave is now a follower!
Maybe they are people who want to figure out how computers really work without wondering what that guy behind the curtains is doing.
"They have a consciousness, they have a life, they have a soul! Damn you! Let the rabbits wear glasses! Save our brothers! Can I get an amen?"
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Toyota Corolla.
Yep. Cheap, slow, and easy to manoeuvre. :thumbsup:
"I have no idea what I did, but I'm taking full credit for it." - ThisOldTony "Common sense is so rare these days, it should be classified as a super power" - Random T-shirt AntiTwitter: @DalekDave is now a follower!
