Updated VS2019 - why exaclty do I need to reboot?
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charlieg wrote:
Multiple VMs zooming along, editors all over, yada yada.
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charlieg wrote:
Please restart your computer
The solution is to go all-in with VMs. If you run VS itself within its own VM, and it insists on rebooting, then you won't have to reboot the host OS, and drag along and interrupt whatever work the other VMs are doing. For years, I've had *nothing* on my host OS but the motherboard drivers, and the virtualization software (Hyper-V in my case). All my work is done inside separate VMs - one dedicated to SQL, another for VS2019, older ones with older versions of VS, another for "everything else" (Office, email, browsers, etc). That way reboots cause the minimal amount of disruptions. My host, at most, reboots once a month, on Patch Tuesday. I've had instances where I let the host wait for a reboot for a few months on end--right now it's still waiting to complete the setup for the February patches. Since I do nothing on the host, including no browsing, it's really at minimal risk and I don't worry as much about hurrying to patch that one as I might with any of the guest VMs. Could be Linux if I was so inclined. Bonus: Backing up is just a matter of copying .VHD files. Since there's nothing on the host, I don't even bother backing *that* one up--reinstalling the OS is pretty quick nowadays. My entire backup set is just a bunch of VHD files that can be managed like any other file with Explorer. Some of these have even been migrated to different physical machines over time. Extra bonus: Since the heavy work is all done in VMs, the host is warming up another room and I don't even have to hear its loud fans. On my desk in *this* room is a tiny, completely quiet Intel NUC, with 3 monitors, and it RDPs to the individual VMs.
I do more or less the same, but not in a dedicated maschine... One VM for serious staff Another one for surfing / searching non whitelisted places Another one for... VS Community (for private pet projects) is in the main OS though. But as I don't use it so much last time... Additionally, I am someone that switches the PC off almost every day, so I don't really care about the reboots.
M.D.V. ;) If something has a solution... Why do we have to worry about?. If it has no solution... For what reason do we have to worry about? Help me to understand what I'm saying, and I'll explain it better to you Rating helpful answers is nice, but saying thanks can be even nicer.
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All excellent points. I had not considered that VS2019 might have updated core OS components. I was tired :) That said, if VS2019 is updating core OS stuff, it should be in the standard patch rollout. Segmentation please. As someone else mentioned, it's probably a default in the install s/w. 1 point to MS: although they did not give me a "reboot later" button, I could X off the prompt and keep going. I guess my perspective was flavored on my most recent video card driver update from NVidea. Their install process messes with my screens (expected) but I did not have to reboot. I consider *any* driver pretty core to the OS. Thank you all
Charlie Gilley <italic>Stuck in a dysfunctional matrix from which I must escape... "Where liberty dwells, there is my country." B. Franklin, 1783 “They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.” BF, 1759
charlieg wrote:
1 point to MS: although they did not give me a "reboot later" button, I could X off the prompt and keep going.
That's probably an error, not a feature :rolleyes: :-D
M.D.V. ;) If something has a solution... Why do we have to worry about?. If it has no solution... For what reason do we have to worry about? Help me to understand what I'm saying, and I'll explain it better to you Rating helpful answers is nice, but saying thanks can be even nicer.
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All excellent points. I had not considered that VS2019 might have updated core OS components. I was tired :) That said, if VS2019 is updating core OS stuff, it should be in the standard patch rollout. Segmentation please. As someone else mentioned, it's probably a default in the install s/w. 1 point to MS: although they did not give me a "reboot later" button, I could X off the prompt and keep going. I guess my perspective was flavored on my most recent video card driver update from NVidea. Their install process messes with my screens (expected) but I did not have to reboot. I consider *any* driver pretty core to the OS. Thank you all
Charlie Gilley <italic>Stuck in a dysfunctional matrix from which I must escape... "Where liberty dwells, there is my country." B. Franklin, 1783 “They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.” BF, 1759
"Reboot later" - yes, thank goodness for that option. Far too many apps still ask you to "Reboot to complete the installation" but I find it's rarely actually necessary. Only today I installed WireShark (not used it before) and it asked to reboot. Not convenient right now, so "reboot later" and just use the thing. Seems to work 100% OK; certainly did what I needed it to do today. I'll reboot in a couple of weeks or so, probably.
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Didn't you just thank dave for saving you to type the same answer? :rolleyes: ;P :laugh:
M.D.V. ;) If something has a solution... Why do we have to worry about?. If it has no solution... For what reason do we have to worry about? Help me to understand what I'm saying, and I'll explain it better to you Rating helpful answers is nice, but saying thanks can be even nicer.
Indeed! :laugh:
Real programmers use butterflies
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All excellent points. I had not considered that VS2019 might have updated core OS components. I was tired :) That said, if VS2019 is updating core OS stuff, it should be in the standard patch rollout. Segmentation please. As someone else mentioned, it's probably a default in the install s/w. 1 point to MS: although they did not give me a "reboot later" button, I could X off the prompt and keep going. I guess my perspective was flavored on my most recent video card driver update from NVidea. Their install process messes with my screens (expected) but I did not have to reboot. I consider *any* driver pretty core to the OS. Thank you all
Charlie Gilley <italic>Stuck in a dysfunctional matrix from which I must escape... "Where liberty dwells, there is my country." B. Franklin, 1783 “They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.” BF, 1759
Replace an exe while it is running, then we talk :) Or better yet, mail MS on how they should replace running executables. Same goes for libraries in use by several exe's. Try replacing those, while they execute :D
charlieg wrote:
I guess my perspective was flavored on my most recent video card driver update from NVidea. Their install process messes with my screens (expected) but I did not have to reboot. I consider *any* driver pretty core to the OS.
You wanna pay NVIDIA pricing for every component on your PC? I can do the same; just TCP/IP communication on the localhost, instead of coupling. That'd be the technical option, instead of downloading crap and claiming it to be an update, just to show some ads and the line that "umpteen devices use Java.", without any real changes. I hate the Java Updater a lot more than Windows Updates that can be explained.
Bastard Programmer from Hell :suss: "If you just follow the bacon Eddy, wherever it leads you, then you won't have to think about politics." -- Some Bell.
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charlieg wrote:
Visual Studio is an application. It has no business needing to reboot.
It does if you're using C++ or other shared components or runtimes that are in use by other applications. Those files cannot be replaced until they are released by the other applications using them. At the time of installation, the files are locked, so during the run of the installer, they are queued up to be replaced on the next O/S start since that's the only time the O/S can guarantee they will not be in use by other applications.
Asking questions is a skill CodeProject Forum Guidelines Google: C# How to debug code Seriously, go read these articles.
Dave KreskowiakDave Kreskowiak wrote:
or other shared components or runtimes that are in use by other applications. Those files cannot be replaced until they are released by the other applications using them.
The only question I have is: Have they ever looked into UNIX/Linux/Minix code (it is open source)? Not that I state that *nix OSes are better in all possible ways, but still there is room for learning...
"The only place where Success comes before Work is in the dictionary." Vidal Sassoon, 1928 - 2012
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Replace an exe while it is running, then we talk :) Or better yet, mail MS on how they should replace running executables. Same goes for libraries in use by several exe's. Try replacing those, while they execute :D
charlieg wrote:
I guess my perspective was flavored on my most recent video card driver update from NVidea. Their install process messes with my screens (expected) but I did not have to reboot. I consider *any* driver pretty core to the OS.
You wanna pay NVIDIA pricing for every component on your PC? I can do the same; just TCP/IP communication on the localhost, instead of coupling. That'd be the technical option, instead of downloading crap and claiming it to be an update, just to show some ads and the line that "umpteen devices use Java.", without any real changes. I hate the Java Updater a lot more than Windows Updates that can be explained.
Bastard Programmer from Hell :suss: "If you just follow the bacon Eddy, wherever it leads you, then you won't have to think about politics." -- Some Bell.
Point taken. I've noticed I have to login to get the update now. I'm not even sure why I bother. It's not like I need the latest update for my 1070 chip in my laptop - 4 years old - and it's not changing. Biggest issue for me is sometimes VMWare Workstation gets wonky at times with driver updates. And VMWare never addresses them. My point is that when MS wants to roll out updates, we all know a reboot is coming, so we plan for it. If I install VS2019 (which I just did) last week, it did not ask me to reboot my machine. If I update, I do? For that matter, if a VS2019 update includes all sorts of other components, then it should *say* so as a common courtesy. I'm agreeing with the other poster, I think they just say it to say it.
Charlie Gilley <italic>Stuck in a dysfunctional matrix from which I must escape... "Where liberty dwells, there is my country." B. Franklin, 1783 “They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.” BF, 1759
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So I have an a$$ton of work going on. Multiple VMs zooming along, editors all over, yada yada. Converted a project from ancient VS to VS2019. I was prompted to update VS2019. Now I have this Installer prompt that says: "Success! One more step to go. Please restart your computer..." Why? Seriously, why do I need to reboot? It's just a holdover from the "reboot Windows" it might fix it history. Or is VS really doing things to the OS that requires me to reboot? I'm not being sarcastic here. Help me understand.
Charlie Gilley <italic>Stuck in a dysfunctional matrix from which I must escape... "Where liberty dwells, there is my country." B. Franklin, 1783 “They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.” BF, 1759
Taking a guess a kernel driver that supports the debugger has been updated, therefore mandating the restart.
Software Zen:
delete this; -
Replace an exe while it is running, then we talk :) Or better yet, mail MS on how they should replace running executables. Same goes for libraries in use by several exe's. Try replacing those, while they execute :D
charlieg wrote:
I guess my perspective was flavored on my most recent video card driver update from NVidea. Their install process messes with my screens (expected) but I did not have to reboot. I consider *any* driver pretty core to the OS.
You wanna pay NVIDIA pricing for every component on your PC? I can do the same; just TCP/IP communication on the localhost, instead of coupling. That'd be the technical option, instead of downloading crap and claiming it to be an update, just to show some ads and the line that "umpteen devices use Java.", without any real changes. I hate the Java Updater a lot more than Windows Updates that can be explained.
Bastard Programmer from Hell :suss: "If you just follow the bacon Eddy, wherever it leads you, then you won't have to think about politics." -- Some Bell.
Eddy Vluggen wrote:
Replace an exe while it is running, then we talk
Well, it's possible to rename an executable while it is running. This is how our desktop apps get updated...also makes rolling back simple if required. :)
"Go forth into the source" - Neal Morse "Hope is contagious"
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Dave Kreskowiak wrote:
or other shared components or runtimes that are in use by other applications. Those files cannot be replaced until they are released by the other applications using them.
The only question I have is: Have they ever looked into UNIX/Linux/Minix code (it is open source)? Not that I state that *nix OSes are better in all possible ways, but still there is room for learning...
"The only place where Success comes before Work is in the dictionary." Vidal Sassoon, 1928 - 2012
Kornfeld Eliyahu Peter wrote:
Have they ever looked into ... there is room for learning...
BWAHAHAHAA! "Learning" and "Microsoft" in the same sentence! You must be new here. :laugh:
Asking questions is a skill CodeProject Forum Guidelines Google: C# How to debug code Seriously, go read these articles.
Dave Kreskowiak -
When I start an OS update, I think it's reasonable that I might have to reboot. It's the OS. Visual Studio is an application. It has no business needing to reboot. Or maybe MS developers suck (sarcasm). Still wondering why.
Charlie Gilley <italic>Stuck in a dysfunctional matrix from which I must escape... "Where liberty dwells, there is my country." B. Franklin, 1783 “They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.” BF, 1759
The last time I looked into it, it was because Visual Studio likes to run background services - you know, those notifiers that let you know "there's an update waiting". I got stuck in a loop once where the service actually got stuck, and was preventing the rest of an update from running and I got into a reboot-find-directory-delete-race, to try to erase the service before it auto-started. Took a couple of tries as I recall...
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Replace an exe while it is running, then we talk :) Or better yet, mail MS on how they should replace running executables. Same goes for libraries in use by several exe's. Try replacing those, while they execute :D
charlieg wrote:
I guess my perspective was flavored on my most recent video card driver update from NVidea. Their install process messes with my screens (expected) but I did not have to reboot. I consider *any* driver pretty core to the OS.
You wanna pay NVIDIA pricing for every component on your PC? I can do the same; just TCP/IP communication on the localhost, instead of coupling. That'd be the technical option, instead of downloading crap and claiming it to be an update, just to show some ads and the line that "umpteen devices use Java.", without any real changes. I hate the Java Updater a lot more than Windows Updates that can be explained.
Bastard Programmer from Hell :suss: "If you just follow the bacon Eddy, wherever it leads you, then you won't have to think about politics." -- Some Bell.
Eddy Vluggen wrote:
Replace an exe while it is running, then we talk :)
How about the same way everything else does - Close the program, launch another one that re-names the original, then re-launch it. Imagine you had to reboot your PC any time Steam (Or any of its included games), or Windows Defender definitions or etc. updated. You'd be rebooting half a dozen times a day!
-= Reelix =-
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So I have an a$$ton of work going on. Multiple VMs zooming along, editors all over, yada yada. Converted a project from ancient VS to VS2019. I was prompted to update VS2019. Now I have this Installer prompt that says: "Success! One more step to go. Please restart your computer..." Why? Seriously, why do I need to reboot? It's just a holdover from the "reboot Windows" it might fix it history. Or is VS really doing things to the OS that requires me to reboot? I'm not being sarcastic here. Help me understand.
Charlie Gilley <italic>Stuck in a dysfunctional matrix from which I must escape... "Where liberty dwells, there is my country." B. Franklin, 1783 “They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.” BF, 1759
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Eddy Vluggen wrote:
Replace an exe while it is running, then we talk :)
How about the same way everything else does - Close the program, launch another one that re-names the original, then re-launch it. Imagine you had to reboot your PC any time Steam (Or any of its included games), or Windows Defender definitions or etc. updated. You'd be rebooting half a dozen times a day!
-= Reelix =-
Reelix wrote:
How about the same way everything else does - Close the program, launch another one that re-names the original, then re-launch it.
That works for your application. As I already explained,
Eddy Vluggen wrote:
Same goes for libraries in use by several exe's.
So, explain how you update a DLL that is in use by several other applications/services?
Reelix wrote:
Imagine you had to reboot your PC any time Steam (Or any of its included games), or Windows Defender definitions or etc. updated. You'd be rebooting half a dozen times a day!
Those don't require a reboot because they don't update a shared resource.
Bastard Programmer from Hell :suss: "If you just follow the bacon Eddy, wherever it leads you, then you won't have to think about politics." -- Some Bell.
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Dave Kreskowiak wrote:
or other shared components or runtimes that are in use by other applications. Those files cannot be replaced until they are released by the other applications using them.
The only question I have is: Have they ever looked into UNIX/Linux/Minix code (it is open source)? Not that I state that *nix OSes are better in all possible ways, but still there is room for learning...
"The only place where Success comes before Work is in the dictionary." Vidal Sassoon, 1928 - 2012
I haven't used Unix derivatives for a few years (except MacOS and WSL), but I remember they needed to reboot as often as Windows if you install or update stuff.
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I haven't used Unix derivatives for a few years (except MacOS and WSL), but I remember they needed to reboot as often as Windows if you install or update stuff.
It is true that to use specific updated features (like new kernel) you need a reboot, but you can do it whenever you want to - two weeks from now if you are in the middle. But app updates - for instance your browser - are totally different. You can keep you running application, which will use the old libraries as long as it runs, but a new instance will load the new libraries with the new features... And you need no reboot of the system for that... And it was like this from the very beginning of UNIX...
"The only place where Success comes before Work is in the dictionary." Vidal Sassoon, 1928 - 2012
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charlieg wrote:
Visual Studio is an application. It has no business needing to reboot.
It does if you're using C++ or other shared components or runtimes that are in use by other applications. Those files cannot be replaced until they are released by the other applications using them. At the time of installation, the files are locked, so during the run of the installer, they are queued up to be replaced on the next O/S start since that's the only time the O/S can guarantee they will not be in use by other applications.
Asking questions is a skill CodeProject Forum Guidelines Google: C# How to debug code Seriously, go read these articles.
Dave KreskowiakThis was the beauty of the OpenVMS versioning file system. A new image could be laid down - it'd get a new version number. All the older images would still be available to those programs that were using them. When those programs restarted they'd get the new image.
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I haven't used Unix derivatives for a few years (except MacOS and WSL), but I remember they needed to reboot as often as Windows if you install or update stuff.
Hm, the only time I had to reboot my Linux box is when I updated to a new kernel or did a whole system update (version 1 to version 2 type update). Everything else just seems to update without requiring a restart. Over all, Linux has caused me had way fewer issues that Windows 10 has.
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Dave Kreskowiak wrote:
or other shared components or runtimes that are in use by other applications. Those files cannot be replaced until they are released by the other applications using them.
The only question I have is: Have they ever looked into UNIX/Linux/Minix code (it is open source)? Not that I state that *nix OSes are better in all possible ways, but still there is room for learning...
"The only place where Success comes before Work is in the dictionary." Vidal Sassoon, 1928 - 2012
Exactly. I haven't restarted my Centos server for ages. And I have installed and uninstalled tonnes of things. A software should just use it's own codes, contained in it's own folder. If several softwares shared same DLLs, and the latest/newest DLL downloaded by the new software is incompatible (in some minor things) to the the oldest software sharing the same DLL, won't this break the old software? Bad code management by M$. They might have done this to save disk space, but, as far as I know, these redistributables have very small size.
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Windows locks executables (including DLLs) while they are in use. Because of this, in order to update shared components, the locks must be freed. While it's possible, there's no "clean" way to even determine who holds a lock that I know of (unless it was added to a more recent windows in which case I am wrong) so the safest thing to do is reboot. VS uses a lot of shared components. A lot of windows applications do, and generally, the larger/more complicated the application, the bigger your odds of having to reboot on update, because they typically use a lot of shared components increasing the odds that one of them is locked and the app needs to update it. This also applies to the various OS features and shell widgets and doodads, not just applications. I hope that clears it up.
Real programmers use butterflies
VS (which is an additional app, which we specifically download and install) shouldn't have shared components with OS / other applications. I can understand if it's OS bundled application...
