Is it good idea to quit CS for a job? (Bored to death)
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CHill60 wrote:
Please stop using the word "slaves" to reference these hard-working outsourcers
I think calling spade for a spade isn't insulting. What really is insulting is that western societies use those people as slaves because someone have to make work of those lazy spoiled millenials from western colleges.
CHill60 wrote:
I'm fairly sure that an Engineer who has been a member here for over 14 years has read a technical book or two in their time!
So now I understand why Indians, Asians and Eastern Europeans have to make your job, because they read books :)
You need to lose the chip on your shoulder. And while you may consider some people slaves, no one takes a job unless they consider it to be the best one available to them. If people have freedom of choice, they're not slaves. I'd counter that many in the West are slaves, but saying more would be getting into topics that are off-limits in The Lounge.
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Here I am again. I don't know if you remember me, but it's me who is always complaying about my CS degree. In the beginning my courses were challanging and I even wrote about it here, but I was working hard and systematically and I came to a point where my classes started to feel like there were going in slow motion, they became more worthless and worthless. I stopped to go to lectures because they are just waste of my time. We are taught obvious things that anyone can learn in five minutes for a almost a half year. In one week I can finish 800-pages programming book or complete two 8-hour tutorials or more while the teachers still show us how to draw an UML-diagram. I thought I could force myself to keep going, but after I started my first group assignment I said to myself: "Enough is enough". I ended up in a group of people who are totaly not intrested in porgramming and have zero knowledge about it. And I'm not talking about writing bad code. No, they can't code at all. If you show them maybe they do, but they do it as if a nazi forced them to do it and they just write some code that doesn't even work, only to get rid of me. They have better grades than me but It's me who has to teach them and explain to them the basics of programming that we had exams of. I don't even know how they came so far. I guess they copied and pasted the code or asked someone to do it for them - because they are con artists for sure. So my question is: What does my degree exactly proving? I learned everything by myself. This school didn't teach me anything - the same goes for my classamtes who can program, they already could do it before they got into this circus for college and the rest of my classmates are just lazy con artists who will take their degree thank's to group assignments which are usually done by one hard working, programming intrested and passionate slave. Because if you ask me I would never ever employ half of my classmates. I don't even know if they can define a variable. They act like if they were kidnapped by aliens, went through medical experiments and than after a month were released still uncoscious and forcly put behind a computer monitor at some university and here they are and they have no clue why they are there and what happens. If you ask me I don't really care as long as they dont waste my time and sabotaging me. But they do. I have to sit together with them and waste hours after hours listnening to them talking none programming related stuff and pretend I can't program because I have to be "goo
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CHill60 wrote:
Please stop using the word "slaves" to reference these hard-working outsourcers
I think calling spade for a spade isn't insulting. What really is insulting is that western societies use those people as slaves because someone have to make work of those lazy spoiled millenials from western colleges.
CHill60 wrote:
I'm fairly sure that an Engineer who has been a member here for over 14 years has read a technical book or two in their time!
So now I understand why Indians, Asians and Eastern Europeans have to make your job, because they read books :)
wrote:
So now I understand why Indians, Asians and Eastern Europeans have to make your job, because they read books
From the tone and quality of your posts from the beginning I'd say you are not a native of a "western" country and are using this opportunity to disparage them and thereby lift up your own group, whatever it may be. And perhaps use it as your national flag on your profile (unless you are ashamed!). But as for your "read books" view as superior - well I've seen code and database designs from the amazing easterners and I can tell you this: by the book it is - totally unimaginative. For the most part, money invested in it (at least as I've seen it) was basically wasted. If there is slavery (as you put it) involved . . . . don't look here but rather look at those cultures that create the code-mills that turn out the garbage. And specialize in telemarketing scams on the side. All in all, I think your full of yourself but you'll find out soon enough exactly what it is you are really full of (and I do not mean talent). How's that for calling a spade a spade?
"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein
"If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010
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Member 14971499 wrote:
So my question is: What does my degree exactly proving?
That you are capable of starting AND FINISHING what you started. That, not the degree itself, says lots about an employee.
"One man's wage rise is another man's price increase." - Harold Wilson
"Fireproof doesn't mean the fire will never come. It means when the fire comes that you will be able to withstand it." - Michael Simmons
"You can easily judge the character of a man by how he treats those who can do nothing for him." - James D. Miles
Yeah, see it through, even if it wrecks you! Lets go for another Phyrric victory!
David Crow wrote:
That, not the degree itself, says lots about an employee.
Yes, that he learned to shut up. That's why I don't have a degree :) If you looking for someone who pleases you, then I'm not it. And nice enough, my first job, one of the question interviews was wether I could hold my ground if I knew I was right. Question was asked by my boss-to-become, and he imposing and been in the military. He also made it very clear that he would not accept weeks of whining about decisions made :D Arguments were short, factual and to the point.
Bastard Programmer from Hell :suss: "If you just follow the bacon Eddy, wherever it leads you, then you won't have to think about politics." -- Some Bell.
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Member 14971499 wrote:
They have better grades than me
Out of your entire post, this is what grabbed my attention. I would otherwise have said you're at a bad college and you have incompetent teachers (it happens), but if you're so much better than your peers, and yet they get the better grades...something doesn't jive. Whether you graduate or not, set your expectations right - take a job, any job, even if it's entry-level. In fact *expect* that to be the case. If you're any good, you *will* be noticed and move up the echelons. Just don't expect to be paid top dollar on your first day. Or--looking back on my own career--your first decade.
dandy72 wrote:
Just don't expect to be paid top dollar on your first day. Or--looking back on my own career--your first decade.
I'm still waiting! :sigh:
"One man's wage rise is another man's price increase." - Harold Wilson
"Fireproof doesn't mean the fire will never come. It means when the fire comes that you will be able to withstand it." - Michael Simmons
"You can easily judge the character of a man by how he treats those who can do nothing for him." - James D. Miles
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Here I am again. I don't know if you remember me, but it's me who is always complaying about my CS degree. In the beginning my courses were challanging and I even wrote about it here, but I was working hard and systematically and I came to a point where my classes started to feel like there were going in slow motion, they became more worthless and worthless. I stopped to go to lectures because they are just waste of my time. We are taught obvious things that anyone can learn in five minutes for a almost a half year. In one week I can finish 800-pages programming book or complete two 8-hour tutorials or more while the teachers still show us how to draw an UML-diagram. I thought I could force myself to keep going, but after I started my first group assignment I said to myself: "Enough is enough". I ended up in a group of people who are totaly not intrested in porgramming and have zero knowledge about it. And I'm not talking about writing bad code. No, they can't code at all. If you show them maybe they do, but they do it as if a nazi forced them to do it and they just write some code that doesn't even work, only to get rid of me. They have better grades than me but It's me who has to teach them and explain to them the basics of programming that we had exams of. I don't even know how they came so far. I guess they copied and pasted the code or asked someone to do it for them - because they are con artists for sure. So my question is: What does my degree exactly proving? I learned everything by myself. This school didn't teach me anything - the same goes for my classamtes who can program, they already could do it before they got into this circus for college and the rest of my classmates are just lazy con artists who will take their degree thank's to group assignments which are usually done by one hard working, programming intrested and passionate slave. Because if you ask me I would never ever employ half of my classmates. I don't even know if they can define a variable. They act like if they were kidnapped by aliens, went through medical experiments and than after a month were released still uncoscious and forcly put behind a computer monitor at some university and here they are and they have no clue why they are there and what happens. If you ask me I don't really care as long as they dont waste my time and sabotaging me. But they do. I have to sit together with them and waste hours after hours listnening to them talking none programming related stuff and pretend I can't program because I have to be "goo
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Here I am again. I don't know if you remember me, but it's me who is always complaying about my CS degree. In the beginning my courses were challanging and I even wrote about it here, but I was working hard and systematically and I came to a point where my classes started to feel like there were going in slow motion, they became more worthless and worthless. I stopped to go to lectures because they are just waste of my time. We are taught obvious things that anyone can learn in five minutes for a almost a half year. In one week I can finish 800-pages programming book or complete two 8-hour tutorials or more while the teachers still show us how to draw an UML-diagram. I thought I could force myself to keep going, but after I started my first group assignment I said to myself: "Enough is enough". I ended up in a group of people who are totaly not intrested in porgramming and have zero knowledge about it. And I'm not talking about writing bad code. No, they can't code at all. If you show them maybe they do, but they do it as if a nazi forced them to do it and they just write some code that doesn't even work, only to get rid of me. They have better grades than me but It's me who has to teach them and explain to them the basics of programming that we had exams of. I don't even know how they came so far. I guess they copied and pasted the code or asked someone to do it for them - because they are con artists for sure. So my question is: What does my degree exactly proving? I learned everything by myself. This school didn't teach me anything - the same goes for my classamtes who can program, they already could do it before they got into this circus for college and the rest of my classmates are just lazy con artists who will take their degree thank's to group assignments which are usually done by one hard working, programming intrested and passionate slave. Because if you ask me I would never ever employ half of my classmates. I don't even know if they can define a variable. They act like if they were kidnapped by aliens, went through medical experiments and than after a month were released still uncoscious and forcly put behind a computer monitor at some university and here they are and they have no clue why they are there and what happens. If you ask me I don't really care as long as they dont waste my time and sabotaging me. But they do. I have to sit together with them and waste hours after hours listnening to them talking none programming related stuff and pretend I can't program because I have to be "goo
You got an amazing point of view, but maybe I had the same before I became cynical and... less young. Neither your classmates nor your teachers are your friends. Keep them as temporary allies because they outnumber you by a lot. The college is your tax shield and you'd be fool to give it up. Start a business and start selling while you are studying. Use their infrastructure and see if you can trick some classmates to work for you for free. But that's nothing compared to girls you will miss when you quit college. In my opinion, ideally college should be 80% about girls, 20% about tax-free profit. Don't count on getting much education there. Self-education is the only kind of education there is (Isaac Asimov's wisdom, not mine)
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Here I am again. I don't know if you remember me, but it's me who is always complaying about my CS degree. In the beginning my courses were challanging and I even wrote about it here, but I was working hard and systematically and I came to a point where my classes started to feel like there were going in slow motion, they became more worthless and worthless. I stopped to go to lectures because they are just waste of my time. We are taught obvious things that anyone can learn in five minutes for a almost a half year. In one week I can finish 800-pages programming book or complete two 8-hour tutorials or more while the teachers still show us how to draw an UML-diagram. I thought I could force myself to keep going, but after I started my first group assignment I said to myself: "Enough is enough". I ended up in a group of people who are totaly not intrested in porgramming and have zero knowledge about it. And I'm not talking about writing bad code. No, they can't code at all. If you show them maybe they do, but they do it as if a nazi forced them to do it and they just write some code that doesn't even work, only to get rid of me. They have better grades than me but It's me who has to teach them and explain to them the basics of programming that we had exams of. I don't even know how they came so far. I guess they copied and pasted the code or asked someone to do it for them - because they are con artists for sure. So my question is: What does my degree exactly proving? I learned everything by myself. This school didn't teach me anything - the same goes for my classamtes who can program, they already could do it before they got into this circus for college and the rest of my classmates are just lazy con artists who will take their degree thank's to group assignments which are usually done by one hard working, programming intrested and passionate slave. Because if you ask me I would never ever employ half of my classmates. I don't even know if they can define a variable. They act like if they were kidnapped by aliens, went through medical experiments and than after a month were released still uncoscious and forcly put behind a computer monitor at some university and here they are and they have no clue why they are there and what happens. If you ask me I don't really care as long as they dont waste my time and sabotaging me. But they do. I have to sit together with them and waste hours after hours listnening to them talking none programming related stuff and pretend I can't program because I have to be "goo
I did, and it was the correct thing for me to do. That doesn't mean it is right for you. Although degrees in this field are less important today than when I quit, I had skills. I have never looked at someone's qualifications when I have employed them.
Nothing succeeds like a budgie without teeth.
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Yeah, see it through, even if it wrecks you! Lets go for another Phyrric victory!
David Crow wrote:
That, not the degree itself, says lots about an employee.
Yes, that he learned to shut up. That's why I don't have a degree :) If you looking for someone who pleases you, then I'm not it. And nice enough, my first job, one of the question interviews was wether I could hold my ground if I knew I was right. Question was asked by my boss-to-become, and he imposing and been in the military. He also made it very clear that he would not accept weeks of whining about decisions made :D Arguments were short, factual and to the point.
Bastard Programmer from Hell :suss: "If you just follow the bacon Eddy, wherever it leads you, then you won't have to think about politics." -- Some Bell.
Oh! How I wish my boss(es...) were like that! Instead I get umpteen versions of 'requirements' from each (usually mutually contradictory) then questioned on why so-and-so doesn't do what they want (this particular requirement, of course, was never in the requested 'requirements'...). AAAArghhh...:mad:
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Here I am again. I don't know if you remember me, but it's me who is always complaying about my CS degree. In the beginning my courses were challanging and I even wrote about it here, but I was working hard and systematically and I came to a point where my classes started to feel like there were going in slow motion, they became more worthless and worthless. I stopped to go to lectures because they are just waste of my time. We are taught obvious things that anyone can learn in five minutes for a almost a half year. In one week I can finish 800-pages programming book or complete two 8-hour tutorials or more while the teachers still show us how to draw an UML-diagram. I thought I could force myself to keep going, but after I started my first group assignment I said to myself: "Enough is enough". I ended up in a group of people who are totaly not intrested in porgramming and have zero knowledge about it. And I'm not talking about writing bad code. No, they can't code at all. If you show them maybe they do, but they do it as if a nazi forced them to do it and they just write some code that doesn't even work, only to get rid of me. They have better grades than me but It's me who has to teach them and explain to them the basics of programming that we had exams of. I don't even know how they came so far. I guess they copied and pasted the code or asked someone to do it for them - because they are con artists for sure. So my question is: What does my degree exactly proving? I learned everything by myself. This school didn't teach me anything - the same goes for my classamtes who can program, they already could do it before they got into this circus for college and the rest of my classmates are just lazy con artists who will take their degree thank's to group assignments which are usually done by one hard working, programming intrested and passionate slave. Because if you ask me I would never ever employ half of my classmates. I don't even know if they can define a variable. They act like if they were kidnapped by aliens, went through medical experiments and than after a month were released still uncoscious and forcly put behind a computer monitor at some university and here they are and they have no clue why they are there and what happens. If you ask me I don't really care as long as they dont waste my time and sabotaging me. But they do. I have to sit together with them and waste hours after hours listnening to them talking none programming related stuff and pretend I can't program because I have to be "goo
Speaking as someone who doesn't have a fully-fledged CS degree (I have a minor diploma from a programming-focused institution, only 6 months), and who is largely self-taught: the piece of paper can be a real help, especially with getting your first job and with seeking employment internationally. I basically can't just emigrate and then look for a job because the emigration rules are largely "must have a degree". _If_ I could get an international job offer and _if_ the local laws would be ok with it (most countries have a "you should hire local first and only bring in people if you _really can't find them locally_" - which I have no problem with, it's fair) then I could _perhaps_ emigrate. I've considered doing night school just to earn that piece of paper - I've been in the industry for 20 years, so I'm sure it's well within my reach - but that's quite expensive at this stage in the game (house, wife, child, car payments, etc). If you can stick it out, my recommendation is to do so. If you can find a part-time job (or can do whatever is required to get you through your courses at night), then go for it - having some money to spend and some real-world experience is a great thing.
------------------------------------------------ If you say that getting the money is the most important thing You will spend your life completely wasting your time You will be doing things you don't like doing In order to go on living That is, to go on doing things you don't like doing Which is stupid. - Alan Watts https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-gXTZM\_uPMY
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CHill60 wrote:
Please stop using the word "slaves" to reference these hard-working outsourcers
I think calling spade for a spade isn't insulting. What really is insulting is that western societies use those people as slaves because someone have to make work of those lazy spoiled millenials from western colleges.
CHill60 wrote:
I'm fairly sure that an Engineer who has been a member here for over 14 years has read a technical book or two in their time!
So now I understand why Indians, Asians and Eastern Europeans have to make your job, because they read books :)
As someone who actually *has* such remote developers in his team, I assure you that they are not "slaves" but rather equal team members with competitive pay (which is an order of magnitude higher than the average salary in their countries), and even stock options! And using the term "slave" to describe them is: (A) derogatory towards them. (B) derogatory towards the companies that employ them. (C) derogatory towards actual victims of slavery or human trafficking in general. Even if I disregard your attitude and opinions about your classmates (which I do, because I don't know them and I lack context) - your responses to some of your future peers here on this forum are way out of line. You would do well to take a step back and tone it down a bit. You complain about lazy spoiled millennials. You may not be lazy, but you do sound a bit like the latter two adjectives.
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Here I am again. I don't know if you remember me, but it's me who is always complaying about my CS degree. In the beginning my courses were challanging and I even wrote about it here, but I was working hard and systematically and I came to a point where my classes started to feel like there were going in slow motion, they became more worthless and worthless. I stopped to go to lectures because they are just waste of my time. We are taught obvious things that anyone can learn in five minutes for a almost a half year. In one week I can finish 800-pages programming book or complete two 8-hour tutorials or more while the teachers still show us how to draw an UML-diagram. I thought I could force myself to keep going, but after I started my first group assignment I said to myself: "Enough is enough". I ended up in a group of people who are totaly not intrested in porgramming and have zero knowledge about it. And I'm not talking about writing bad code. No, they can't code at all. If you show them maybe they do, but they do it as if a nazi forced them to do it and they just write some code that doesn't even work, only to get rid of me. They have better grades than me but It's me who has to teach them and explain to them the basics of programming that we had exams of. I don't even know how they came so far. I guess they copied and pasted the code or asked someone to do it for them - because they are con artists for sure. So my question is: What does my degree exactly proving? I learned everything by myself. This school didn't teach me anything - the same goes for my classamtes who can program, they already could do it before they got into this circus for college and the rest of my classmates are just lazy con artists who will take their degree thank's to group assignments which are usually done by one hard working, programming intrested and passionate slave. Because if you ask me I would never ever employ half of my classmates. I don't even know if they can define a variable. They act like if they were kidnapped by aliens, went through medical experiments and than after a month were released still uncoscious and forcly put behind a computer monitor at some university and here they are and they have no clue why they are there and what happens. If you ask me I don't really care as long as they dont waste my time and sabotaging me. But they do. I have to sit together with them and waste hours after hours listnening to them talking none programming related stuff and pretend I can't program because I have to be "goo
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Here I am again. I don't know if you remember me, but it's me who is always complaying about my CS degree. In the beginning my courses were challanging and I even wrote about it here, but I was working hard and systematically and I came to a point where my classes started to feel like there were going in slow motion, they became more worthless and worthless. I stopped to go to lectures because they are just waste of my time. We are taught obvious things that anyone can learn in five minutes for a almost a half year. In one week I can finish 800-pages programming book or complete two 8-hour tutorials or more while the teachers still show us how to draw an UML-diagram. I thought I could force myself to keep going, but after I started my first group assignment I said to myself: "Enough is enough". I ended up in a group of people who are totaly not intrested in porgramming and have zero knowledge about it. And I'm not talking about writing bad code. No, they can't code at all. If you show them maybe they do, but they do it as if a nazi forced them to do it and they just write some code that doesn't even work, only to get rid of me. They have better grades than me but It's me who has to teach them and explain to them the basics of programming that we had exams of. I don't even know how they came so far. I guess they copied and pasted the code or asked someone to do it for them - because they are con artists for sure. So my question is: What does my degree exactly proving? I learned everything by myself. This school didn't teach me anything - the same goes for my classamtes who can program, they already could do it before they got into this circus for college and the rest of my classmates are just lazy con artists who will take their degree thank's to group assignments which are usually done by one hard working, programming intrested and passionate slave. Because if you ask me I would never ever employ half of my classmates. I don't even know if they can define a variable. They act like if they were kidnapped by aliens, went through medical experiments and than after a month were released still uncoscious and forcly put behind a computer monitor at some university and here they are and they have no clue why they are there and what happens. If you ask me I don't really care as long as they dont waste my time and sabotaging me. But they do. I have to sit together with them and waste hours after hours listnening to them talking none programming related stuff and pretend I can't program because I have to be "goo
Quote:
I stopped to go to lectures because they are just waste of my time.
Quote:
They have better grades than me.
I suspect a strong correlation here. Quit and freelance. I doubt you will ever be happy working WITH people or FOR anyone. You seem smart enough to be successful working by yourself, if you can avoid insulting your customers.
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Member 14971499 wrote:
So my question is: What does my degree exactly proving?
That you are capable of starting AND FINISHING what you started. That, not the degree itself, says lots about an employee.
"One man's wage rise is another man's price increase." - Harold Wilson
"Fireproof doesn't mean the fire will never come. It means when the fire comes that you will be able to withstand it." - Michael Simmons
"You can easily judge the character of a man by how he treats those who can do nothing for him." - James D. Miles
David Crow wrote:
That you are capable of starting AND FINISHING what you started.
I totally agree with this. Anyone can complete a task that they enjoy and find easy. Being able to complete something difficult that you do not enjoy is what really counts. That's why it's called "work". I have hired people with a degree and I have hired people without a degree. I have never hired someone that quit their course.
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Here I am again. I don't know if you remember me, but it's me who is always complaying about my CS degree. In the beginning my courses were challanging and I even wrote about it here, but I was working hard and systematically and I came to a point where my classes started to feel like there were going in slow motion, they became more worthless and worthless. I stopped to go to lectures because they are just waste of my time. We are taught obvious things that anyone can learn in five minutes for a almost a half year. In one week I can finish 800-pages programming book or complete two 8-hour tutorials or more while the teachers still show us how to draw an UML-diagram. I thought I could force myself to keep going, but after I started my first group assignment I said to myself: "Enough is enough". I ended up in a group of people who are totaly not intrested in porgramming and have zero knowledge about it. And I'm not talking about writing bad code. No, they can't code at all. If you show them maybe they do, but they do it as if a nazi forced them to do it and they just write some code that doesn't even work, only to get rid of me. They have better grades than me but It's me who has to teach them and explain to them the basics of programming that we had exams of. I don't even know how they came so far. I guess they copied and pasted the code or asked someone to do it for them - because they are con artists for sure. So my question is: What does my degree exactly proving? I learned everything by myself. This school didn't teach me anything - the same goes for my classamtes who can program, they already could do it before they got into this circus for college and the rest of my classmates are just lazy con artists who will take their degree thank's to group assignments which are usually done by one hard working, programming intrested and passionate slave. Because if you ask me I would never ever employ half of my classmates. I don't even know if they can define a variable. They act like if they were kidnapped by aliens, went through medical experiments and than after a month were released still uncoscious and forcly put behind a computer monitor at some university and here they are and they have no clue why they are there and what happens. If you ask me I don't really care as long as they dont waste my time and sabotaging me. But they do. I have to sit together with them and waste hours after hours listnening to them talking none programming related stuff and pretend I can't program because I have to be "goo
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Here I am again. I don't know if you remember me, but it's me who is always complaying about my CS degree. In the beginning my courses were challanging and I even wrote about it here, but I was working hard and systematically and I came to a point where my classes started to feel like there were going in slow motion, they became more worthless and worthless. I stopped to go to lectures because they are just waste of my time. We are taught obvious things that anyone can learn in five minutes for a almost a half year. In one week I can finish 800-pages programming book or complete two 8-hour tutorials or more while the teachers still show us how to draw an UML-diagram. I thought I could force myself to keep going, but after I started my first group assignment I said to myself: "Enough is enough". I ended up in a group of people who are totaly not intrested in porgramming and have zero knowledge about it. And I'm not talking about writing bad code. No, they can't code at all. If you show them maybe they do, but they do it as if a nazi forced them to do it and they just write some code that doesn't even work, only to get rid of me. They have better grades than me but It's me who has to teach them and explain to them the basics of programming that we had exams of. I don't even know how they came so far. I guess they copied and pasted the code or asked someone to do it for them - because they are con artists for sure. So my question is: What does my degree exactly proving? I learned everything by myself. This school didn't teach me anything - the same goes for my classamtes who can program, they already could do it before they got into this circus for college and the rest of my classmates are just lazy con artists who will take their degree thank's to group assignments which are usually done by one hard working, programming intrested and passionate slave. Because if you ask me I would never ever employ half of my classmates. I don't even know if they can define a variable. They act like if they were kidnapped by aliens, went through medical experiments and than after a month were released still uncoscious and forcly put behind a computer monitor at some university and here they are and they have no clue why they are there and what happens. If you ask me I don't really care as long as they dont waste my time and sabotaging me. But they do. I have to sit together with them and waste hours after hours listnening to them talking none programming related stuff and pretend I can't program because I have to be "goo
I graduated college with 2 degrees: Forestry and Sociology. I had a single 1 credit computer lab course in college. What did I do for my first job out of college? I worked in Real Estate. From there I progressed to a software company who's sole product was for the Real Estate industry. I started in Support, but eventually moved to Development. 10 years later, I got my CS degree. Now I'm working on my master's. My point is, did I need those 3 bachelor degrees to become a programmer? No. Would have I have been hired at the software company without a degree? No. Without my degree, I would probably still be working low-end office jobs today. In my CS classes, I knew more than everyone there because of my real-world experience. Did I have to put in more work in the group projects to get the project to were I wanted it to be? Yes. Did I blame my group-mates for not being as proficient as me? No. They didn't have the benefit of my experience and skills. Development is a group effort, even if you are free-lancing (unless you are only coding for yourself, but that rarely makes money; and as soon as it does, it is no longer a sole effort). Learning to work well with others that aren't as technically proficient as you will be the best skill you will learn from your college classes, but that will be useful no matter which job you get. Bond Keep all things as simple as possible, but no simpler. -said someone, somewhere
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Here I am again. I don't know if you remember me, but it's me who is always complaying about my CS degree. In the beginning my courses were challanging and I even wrote about it here, but I was working hard and systematically and I came to a point where my classes started to feel like there were going in slow motion, they became more worthless and worthless. I stopped to go to lectures because they are just waste of my time. We are taught obvious things that anyone can learn in five minutes for a almost a half year. In one week I can finish 800-pages programming book or complete two 8-hour tutorials or more while the teachers still show us how to draw an UML-diagram. I thought I could force myself to keep going, but after I started my first group assignment I said to myself: "Enough is enough". I ended up in a group of people who are totaly not intrested in porgramming and have zero knowledge about it. And I'm not talking about writing bad code. No, they can't code at all. If you show them maybe they do, but they do it as if a nazi forced them to do it and they just write some code that doesn't even work, only to get rid of me. They have better grades than me but It's me who has to teach them and explain to them the basics of programming that we had exams of. I don't even know how they came so far. I guess they copied and pasted the code or asked someone to do it for them - because they are con artists for sure. So my question is: What does my degree exactly proving? I learned everything by myself. This school didn't teach me anything - the same goes for my classamtes who can program, they already could do it before they got into this circus for college and the rest of my classmates are just lazy con artists who will take their degree thank's to group assignments which are usually done by one hard working, programming intrested and passionate slave. Because if you ask me I would never ever employ half of my classmates. I don't even know if they can define a variable. They act like if they were kidnapped by aliens, went through medical experiments and than after a month were released still uncoscious and forcly put behind a computer monitor at some university and here they are and they have no clue why they are there and what happens. If you ask me I don't really care as long as they dont waste my time and sabotaging me. But they do. I have to sit together with them and waste hours after hours listnening to them talking none programming related stuff and pretend I can't program because I have to be "goo
Do not drop out of college. You will almost certainly regret it later in life maybe after you have 4 and 5 year old children. You're failure to get a degree will very likely leak into your marital relationship and cause strain. If you aren't getting along with your classmates, you may have problems getting along with your future coworkers and spouse/children. I can tell you this because I went through a very similar situation. I was a Bachelor in Science student of Electrical Engineering at Okstate and I wound up leaving to eventually get a Bachelor of Science in Computer Science at Cameron University. BS in CS is much easier than BS in EE and I regret that I took the easy way out. I later attempted MS in CS at Okstate through distance learning. I didn't get any more bad grades but I didn't finish that either. I spent much of my life trying to shield my my significant other and children from my mistakes and my children's laziness routinely got under my skin because of my past failures. Ultimately, my relationship with my significant other deteriorated to the dismal state it is now. Do you see where this is going? If you want a successfully marriage and career, you need to learn to get along with others and finish college. If BS in CS is too easy for you then consider BS in ABET Computer Engineering. BS in Computer Engineering is harder but it's much more important today. Right now, many corporations are trying to replace programmers with people that "drag boxes" around on the screen through Power Automate, SharePoint and other tools. This is *not* an enjoyable way to develop. It can *sometimes* work out for professional developers like you and me, but it often winds up creating half working spaghetti code. Is you are burnt out on CS, try enrolling with COOP through your university. If your university's CS program falls under the engineering department, getting a COOP job should be easy for you once your reach Junior level standing, but you may be able to get in sooner. I think COOP will allow you to alternate semesters of employment and school so you can concentrate on one of them at a time. Don't get a job while you are in school unless it's COOP. It's demoralizing and will help you develop cockiness and a bad attitude. A full or even part time job and CS/Engineering do *not* go well together. No, you don't need a degree to program. There are many successful people in life that succeeded in programming without going through the theoretical "nonsense" of CS. Unfortunately,
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Here I am again. I don't know if you remember me, but it's me who is always complaying about my CS degree. In the beginning my courses were challanging and I even wrote about it here, but I was working hard and systematically and I came to a point where my classes started to feel like there were going in slow motion, they became more worthless and worthless. I stopped to go to lectures because they are just waste of my time. We are taught obvious things that anyone can learn in five minutes for a almost a half year. In one week I can finish 800-pages programming book or complete two 8-hour tutorials or more while the teachers still show us how to draw an UML-diagram. I thought I could force myself to keep going, but after I started my first group assignment I said to myself: "Enough is enough". I ended up in a group of people who are totaly not intrested in porgramming and have zero knowledge about it. And I'm not talking about writing bad code. No, they can't code at all. If you show them maybe they do, but they do it as if a nazi forced them to do it and they just write some code that doesn't even work, only to get rid of me. They have better grades than me but It's me who has to teach them and explain to them the basics of programming that we had exams of. I don't even know how they came so far. I guess they copied and pasted the code or asked someone to do it for them - because they are con artists for sure. So my question is: What does my degree exactly proving? I learned everything by myself. This school didn't teach me anything - the same goes for my classamtes who can program, they already could do it before they got into this circus for college and the rest of my classmates are just lazy con artists who will take their degree thank's to group assignments which are usually done by one hard working, programming intrested and passionate slave. Because if you ask me I would never ever employ half of my classmates. I don't even know if they can define a variable. They act like if they were kidnapped by aliens, went through medical experiments and than after a month were released still uncoscious and forcly put behind a computer monitor at some university and here they are and they have no clue why they are there and what happens. If you ask me I don't really care as long as they dont waste my time and sabotaging me. But they do. I have to sit together with them and waste hours after hours listnening to them talking none programming related stuff and pretend I can't program because I have to be "goo
It really depends but to give some background, I am a self taught programmer that never finished college and dropped out. I was a huge computer nerd growing up and learned 6502 assembly (Apple II), z80 assembly (TI-85), x86 assembly using MASM and TASM, basic, turbo pascal, turbo c and visual basic. That was just before I was out of High School. I was big in to hacking, cracking, boxing, phreaking and the allure of the darker side of technology long before the infamous Hacker movie of the 90's. Angelina used to be sooo hot, lol. Fast forward to college and I was supremely bored. I was going for a network technologies degree and wanted a CS degree. I only made it two years. I eventually just stopped showing up for class except to ace the exams. I was already Microsoft Certified for some of the classes the teacher was teaching and often the teacher was asking me questions or I had to correct them. I was also working entry level positions at the time building pcs, installing networks, excel automation with vba and access, database and web development etc. Basically anything to get some field experience and make money while I was going to school. There are generally two types of people. The ones who could care less and just want the degree and the ones that are actually interested in the material. More often than not the ones interested in the material already know a lot of the material but the classes still have to be designed to teach the people that just want the piece of paper. It really sucks for the motivated people who love technology but school is more about money and clout these days than actual academia. To answer your question, six of one and half a dozen of the other. In some ways I wish I had the degree because I am very weak on things like Big O, Design Patterns and Unit Testing which are very important to some larger companies. On the other hand I can mop the floor with people when it comes to algorithms, debugging and cranking out solid code. I was DevOps before it was even a thing, mainly because necessity was the mother of invention. Because I did not have a degree, I usually ended up working for smaller businesses which meant lower pay and benefits and lower budgets for tools and hardware making the job more difficult. You really need to get creative to get the job done well. Fast forward 20+ years and I feel like I am somewhat successful. It is definitely doable to make it without a degree if you have talent but it will be a more difficult path. It is a lot easier these days with how
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Here I am again. I don't know if you remember me, but it's me who is always complaying about my CS degree. In the beginning my courses were challanging and I even wrote about it here, but I was working hard and systematically and I came to a point where my classes started to feel like there were going in slow motion, they became more worthless and worthless. I stopped to go to lectures because they are just waste of my time. We are taught obvious things that anyone can learn in five minutes for a almost a half year. In one week I can finish 800-pages programming book or complete two 8-hour tutorials or more while the teachers still show us how to draw an UML-diagram. I thought I could force myself to keep going, but after I started my first group assignment I said to myself: "Enough is enough". I ended up in a group of people who are totaly not intrested in porgramming and have zero knowledge about it. And I'm not talking about writing bad code. No, they can't code at all. If you show them maybe they do, but they do it as if a nazi forced them to do it and they just write some code that doesn't even work, only to get rid of me. They have better grades than me but It's me who has to teach them and explain to them the basics of programming that we had exams of. I don't even know how they came so far. I guess they copied and pasted the code or asked someone to do it for them - because they are con artists for sure. So my question is: What does my degree exactly proving? I learned everything by myself. This school didn't teach me anything - the same goes for my classamtes who can program, they already could do it before they got into this circus for college and the rest of my classmates are just lazy con artists who will take their degree thank's to group assignments which are usually done by one hard working, programming intrested and passionate slave. Because if you ask me I would never ever employ half of my classmates. I don't even know if they can define a variable. They act like if they were kidnapped by aliens, went through medical experiments and than after a month were released still uncoscious and forcly put behind a computer monitor at some university and here they are and they have no clue why they are there and what happens. If you ask me I don't really care as long as they dont waste my time and sabotaging me. But they do. I have to sit together with them and waste hours after hours listnening to them talking none programming related stuff and pretend I can't program because I have to be "goo
This is the most important part of the training: Getting along with other people. Observe and learn carefully, because the lessons learned here will be essential to whatever you end up doing, coding or otherwise. You'll find such people everywhere you go. Be ready to teach those who need help, be prepared to learn from those who are better than you, and learn to recognize the difference. Someday you're going to need all their help to complete projects bigger than one person can handle alone.
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Here I am again. I don't know if you remember me, but it's me who is always complaying about my CS degree. In the beginning my courses were challanging and I even wrote about it here, but I was working hard and systematically and I came to a point where my classes started to feel like there were going in slow motion, they became more worthless and worthless. I stopped to go to lectures because they are just waste of my time. We are taught obvious things that anyone can learn in five minutes for a almost a half year. In one week I can finish 800-pages programming book or complete two 8-hour tutorials or more while the teachers still show us how to draw an UML-diagram. I thought I could force myself to keep going, but after I started my first group assignment I said to myself: "Enough is enough". I ended up in a group of people who are totaly not intrested in porgramming and have zero knowledge about it. And I'm not talking about writing bad code. No, they can't code at all. If you show them maybe they do, but they do it as if a nazi forced them to do it and they just write some code that doesn't even work, only to get rid of me. They have better grades than me but It's me who has to teach them and explain to them the basics of programming that we had exams of. I don't even know how they came so far. I guess they copied and pasted the code or asked someone to do it for them - because they are con artists for sure. So my question is: What does my degree exactly proving? I learned everything by myself. This school didn't teach me anything - the same goes for my classamtes who can program, they already could do it before they got into this circus for college and the rest of my classmates are just lazy con artists who will take their degree thank's to group assignments which are usually done by one hard working, programming intrested and passionate slave. Because if you ask me I would never ever employ half of my classmates. I don't even know if they can define a variable. They act like if they were kidnapped by aliens, went through medical experiments and than after a month were released still uncoscious and forcly put behind a computer monitor at some university and here they are and they have no clue why they are there and what happens. If you ask me I don't really care as long as they dont waste my time and sabotaging me. But they do. I have to sit together with them and waste hours after hours listnening to them talking none programming related stuff and pretend I can't program because I have to be "goo
There is a great irony that the workforce can sometimes be so similar to exactly like your group. If you have a job lined up so your foot is in the door for some experience, you would probably be OK going for it. After you have some experience, the number of employers who won't talk to you because you lack a degree is very minimal (in the U.S.).
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PS: I know that I will not always prorgam that much at my work and I still have to put up with lazy co-workers and waste time at the meetings but at least I get money for that and I can pay off my loan.
Something to consider is that it seems easy to say that now. If you're passionate about this stuff then you may not find it so easy to sell yourself into apathy. As you deal with the willfully ignorant and incompetent in these group scenarios, you are likely acquiring soft skills you don't realize you are acquiring. Those people have been and will continue to be hired into the shops you will work in. If you can learn how to handle that, especially if you can learn how to change their attitudes or inspire them, it will pay massive dividends. In the end, you might be able to flip your statement on its head. "At least we're not getting paid for this." Maybe not so absurd as it sounds if you consider that once you are working "for real" that stuff can be even more demotivating and rob you of your passion because you've been on both sides of the fence and seen there is no greener grass.
