Is it good idea to quit CS for a job? (Bored to death)
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Here I am again. I don't know if you remember me, but it's me who is always complaying about my CS degree. In the beginning my courses were challanging and I even wrote about it here, but I was working hard and systematically and I came to a point where my classes started to feel like there were going in slow motion, they became more worthless and worthless. I stopped to go to lectures because they are just waste of my time. We are taught obvious things that anyone can learn in five minutes for a almost a half year. In one week I can finish 800-pages programming book or complete two 8-hour tutorials or more while the teachers still show us how to draw an UML-diagram. I thought I could force myself to keep going, but after I started my first group assignment I said to myself: "Enough is enough". I ended up in a group of people who are totaly not intrested in porgramming and have zero knowledge about it. And I'm not talking about writing bad code. No, they can't code at all. If you show them maybe they do, but they do it as if a nazi forced them to do it and they just write some code that doesn't even work, only to get rid of me. They have better grades than me but It's me who has to teach them and explain to them the basics of programming that we had exams of. I don't even know how they came so far. I guess they copied and pasted the code or asked someone to do it for them - because they are con artists for sure. So my question is: What does my degree exactly proving? I learned everything by myself. This school didn't teach me anything - the same goes for my classamtes who can program, they already could do it before they got into this circus for college and the rest of my classmates are just lazy con artists who will take their degree thank's to group assignments which are usually done by one hard working, programming intrested and passionate slave. Because if you ask me I would never ever employ half of my classmates. I don't even know if they can define a variable. They act like if they were kidnapped by aliens, went through medical experiments and than after a month were released still uncoscious and forcly put behind a computer monitor at some university and here they are and they have no clue why they are there and what happens. If you ask me I don't really care as long as they dont waste my time and sabotaging me. But they do. I have to sit together with them and waste hours after hours listnening to them talking none programming related stuff and pretend I can't program because I have to be "goo
Do not drop out of college. You will almost certainly regret it later in life maybe after you have 4 and 5 year old children. You're failure to get a degree will very likely leak into your marital relationship and cause strain. If you aren't getting along with your classmates, you may have problems getting along with your future coworkers and spouse/children. I can tell you this because I went through a very similar situation. I was a Bachelor in Science student of Electrical Engineering at Okstate and I wound up leaving to eventually get a Bachelor of Science in Computer Science at Cameron University. BS in CS is much easier than BS in EE and I regret that I took the easy way out. I later attempted MS in CS at Okstate through distance learning. I didn't get any more bad grades but I didn't finish that either. I spent much of my life trying to shield my my significant other and children from my mistakes and my children's laziness routinely got under my skin because of my past failures. Ultimately, my relationship with my significant other deteriorated to the dismal state it is now. Do you see where this is going? If you want a successfully marriage and career, you need to learn to get along with others and finish college. If BS in CS is too easy for you then consider BS in ABET Computer Engineering. BS in Computer Engineering is harder but it's much more important today. Right now, many corporations are trying to replace programmers with people that "drag boxes" around on the screen through Power Automate, SharePoint and other tools. This is *not* an enjoyable way to develop. It can *sometimes* work out for professional developers like you and me, but it often winds up creating half working spaghetti code. Is you are burnt out on CS, try enrolling with COOP through your university. If your university's CS program falls under the engineering department, getting a COOP job should be easy for you once your reach Junior level standing, but you may be able to get in sooner. I think COOP will allow you to alternate semesters of employment and school so you can concentrate on one of them at a time. Don't get a job while you are in school unless it's COOP. It's demoralizing and will help you develop cockiness and a bad attitude. A full or even part time job and CS/Engineering do *not* go well together. No, you don't need a degree to program. There are many successful people in life that succeeded in programming without going through the theoretical "nonsense" of CS. Unfortunately,
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Here I am again. I don't know if you remember me, but it's me who is always complaying about my CS degree. In the beginning my courses were challanging and I even wrote about it here, but I was working hard and systematically and I came to a point where my classes started to feel like there were going in slow motion, they became more worthless and worthless. I stopped to go to lectures because they are just waste of my time. We are taught obvious things that anyone can learn in five minutes for a almost a half year. In one week I can finish 800-pages programming book or complete two 8-hour tutorials or more while the teachers still show us how to draw an UML-diagram. I thought I could force myself to keep going, but after I started my first group assignment I said to myself: "Enough is enough". I ended up in a group of people who are totaly not intrested in porgramming and have zero knowledge about it. And I'm not talking about writing bad code. No, they can't code at all. If you show them maybe they do, but they do it as if a nazi forced them to do it and they just write some code that doesn't even work, only to get rid of me. They have better grades than me but It's me who has to teach them and explain to them the basics of programming that we had exams of. I don't even know how they came so far. I guess they copied and pasted the code or asked someone to do it for them - because they are con artists for sure. So my question is: What does my degree exactly proving? I learned everything by myself. This school didn't teach me anything - the same goes for my classamtes who can program, they already could do it before they got into this circus for college and the rest of my classmates are just lazy con artists who will take their degree thank's to group assignments which are usually done by one hard working, programming intrested and passionate slave. Because if you ask me I would never ever employ half of my classmates. I don't even know if they can define a variable. They act like if they were kidnapped by aliens, went through medical experiments and than after a month were released still uncoscious and forcly put behind a computer monitor at some university and here they are and they have no clue why they are there and what happens. If you ask me I don't really care as long as they dont waste my time and sabotaging me. But they do. I have to sit together with them and waste hours after hours listnening to them talking none programming related stuff and pretend I can't program because I have to be "goo
It really depends but to give some background, I am a self taught programmer that never finished college and dropped out. I was a huge computer nerd growing up and learned 6502 assembly (Apple II), z80 assembly (TI-85), x86 assembly using MASM and TASM, basic, turbo pascal, turbo c and visual basic. That was just before I was out of High School. I was big in to hacking, cracking, boxing, phreaking and the allure of the darker side of technology long before the infamous Hacker movie of the 90's. Angelina used to be sooo hot, lol. Fast forward to college and I was supremely bored. I was going for a network technologies degree and wanted a CS degree. I only made it two years. I eventually just stopped showing up for class except to ace the exams. I was already Microsoft Certified for some of the classes the teacher was teaching and often the teacher was asking me questions or I had to correct them. I was also working entry level positions at the time building pcs, installing networks, excel automation with vba and access, database and web development etc. Basically anything to get some field experience and make money while I was going to school. There are generally two types of people. The ones who could care less and just want the degree and the ones that are actually interested in the material. More often than not the ones interested in the material already know a lot of the material but the classes still have to be designed to teach the people that just want the piece of paper. It really sucks for the motivated people who love technology but school is more about money and clout these days than actual academia. To answer your question, six of one and half a dozen of the other. In some ways I wish I had the degree because I am very weak on things like Big O, Design Patterns and Unit Testing which are very important to some larger companies. On the other hand I can mop the floor with people when it comes to algorithms, debugging and cranking out solid code. I was DevOps before it was even a thing, mainly because necessity was the mother of invention. Because I did not have a degree, I usually ended up working for smaller businesses which meant lower pay and benefits and lower budgets for tools and hardware making the job more difficult. You really need to get creative to get the job done well. Fast forward 20+ years and I feel like I am somewhat successful. It is definitely doable to make it without a degree if you have talent but it will be a more difficult path. It is a lot easier these days with how
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Here I am again. I don't know if you remember me, but it's me who is always complaying about my CS degree. In the beginning my courses were challanging and I even wrote about it here, but I was working hard and systematically and I came to a point where my classes started to feel like there were going in slow motion, they became more worthless and worthless. I stopped to go to lectures because they are just waste of my time. We are taught obvious things that anyone can learn in five minutes for a almost a half year. In one week I can finish 800-pages programming book or complete two 8-hour tutorials or more while the teachers still show us how to draw an UML-diagram. I thought I could force myself to keep going, but after I started my first group assignment I said to myself: "Enough is enough". I ended up in a group of people who are totaly not intrested in porgramming and have zero knowledge about it. And I'm not talking about writing bad code. No, they can't code at all. If you show them maybe they do, but they do it as if a nazi forced them to do it and they just write some code that doesn't even work, only to get rid of me. They have better grades than me but It's me who has to teach them and explain to them the basics of programming that we had exams of. I don't even know how they came so far. I guess they copied and pasted the code or asked someone to do it for them - because they are con artists for sure. So my question is: What does my degree exactly proving? I learned everything by myself. This school didn't teach me anything - the same goes for my classamtes who can program, they already could do it before they got into this circus for college and the rest of my classmates are just lazy con artists who will take their degree thank's to group assignments which are usually done by one hard working, programming intrested and passionate slave. Because if you ask me I would never ever employ half of my classmates. I don't even know if they can define a variable. They act like if they were kidnapped by aliens, went through medical experiments and than after a month were released still uncoscious and forcly put behind a computer monitor at some university and here they are and they have no clue why they are there and what happens. If you ask me I don't really care as long as they dont waste my time and sabotaging me. But they do. I have to sit together with them and waste hours after hours listnening to them talking none programming related stuff and pretend I can't program because I have to be "goo
This is the most important part of the training: Getting along with other people. Observe and learn carefully, because the lessons learned here will be essential to whatever you end up doing, coding or otherwise. You'll find such people everywhere you go. Be ready to teach those who need help, be prepared to learn from those who are better than you, and learn to recognize the difference. Someday you're going to need all their help to complete projects bigger than one person can handle alone.
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Here I am again. I don't know if you remember me, but it's me who is always complaying about my CS degree. In the beginning my courses were challanging and I even wrote about it here, but I was working hard and systematically and I came to a point where my classes started to feel like there were going in slow motion, they became more worthless and worthless. I stopped to go to lectures because they are just waste of my time. We are taught obvious things that anyone can learn in five minutes for a almost a half year. In one week I can finish 800-pages programming book or complete two 8-hour tutorials or more while the teachers still show us how to draw an UML-diagram. I thought I could force myself to keep going, but after I started my first group assignment I said to myself: "Enough is enough". I ended up in a group of people who are totaly not intrested in porgramming and have zero knowledge about it. And I'm not talking about writing bad code. No, they can't code at all. If you show them maybe they do, but they do it as if a nazi forced them to do it and they just write some code that doesn't even work, only to get rid of me. They have better grades than me but It's me who has to teach them and explain to them the basics of programming that we had exams of. I don't even know how they came so far. I guess they copied and pasted the code or asked someone to do it for them - because they are con artists for sure. So my question is: What does my degree exactly proving? I learned everything by myself. This school didn't teach me anything - the same goes for my classamtes who can program, they already could do it before they got into this circus for college and the rest of my classmates are just lazy con artists who will take their degree thank's to group assignments which are usually done by one hard working, programming intrested and passionate slave. Because if you ask me I would never ever employ half of my classmates. I don't even know if they can define a variable. They act like if they were kidnapped by aliens, went through medical experiments and than after a month were released still uncoscious and forcly put behind a computer monitor at some university and here they are and they have no clue why they are there and what happens. If you ask me I don't really care as long as they dont waste my time and sabotaging me. But they do. I have to sit together with them and waste hours after hours listnening to them talking none programming related stuff and pretend I can't program because I have to be "goo
There is a great irony that the workforce can sometimes be so similar to exactly like your group. If you have a job lined up so your foot is in the door for some experience, you would probably be OK going for it. After you have some experience, the number of employers who won't talk to you because you lack a degree is very minimal (in the U.S.).
wrote:
PS: I know that I will not always prorgam that much at my work and I still have to put up with lazy co-workers and waste time at the meetings but at least I get money for that and I can pay off my loan.
Something to consider is that it seems easy to say that now. If you're passionate about this stuff then you may not find it so easy to sell yourself into apathy. As you deal with the willfully ignorant and incompetent in these group scenarios, you are likely acquiring soft skills you don't realize you are acquiring. Those people have been and will continue to be hired into the shops you will work in. If you can learn how to handle that, especially if you can learn how to change their attitudes or inspire them, it will pay massive dividends. In the end, you might be able to flip your statement on its head. "At least we're not getting paid for this." Maybe not so absurd as it sounds if you consider that once you are working "for real" that stuff can be even more demotivating and rob you of your passion because you've been on both sides of the fence and seen there is no greener grass.
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Here I am again. I don't know if you remember me, but it's me who is always complaying about my CS degree. In the beginning my courses were challanging and I even wrote about it here, but I was working hard and systematically and I came to a point where my classes started to feel like there were going in slow motion, they became more worthless and worthless. I stopped to go to lectures because they are just waste of my time. We are taught obvious things that anyone can learn in five minutes for a almost a half year. In one week I can finish 800-pages programming book or complete two 8-hour tutorials or more while the teachers still show us how to draw an UML-diagram. I thought I could force myself to keep going, but after I started my first group assignment I said to myself: "Enough is enough". I ended up in a group of people who are totaly not intrested in porgramming and have zero knowledge about it. And I'm not talking about writing bad code. No, they can't code at all. If you show them maybe they do, but they do it as if a nazi forced them to do it and they just write some code that doesn't even work, only to get rid of me. They have better grades than me but It's me who has to teach them and explain to them the basics of programming that we had exams of. I don't even know how they came so far. I guess they copied and pasted the code or asked someone to do it for them - because they are con artists for sure. So my question is: What does my degree exactly proving? I learned everything by myself. This school didn't teach me anything - the same goes for my classamtes who can program, they already could do it before they got into this circus for college and the rest of my classmates are just lazy con artists who will take their degree thank's to group assignments which are usually done by one hard working, programming intrested and passionate slave. Because if you ask me I would never ever employ half of my classmates. I don't even know if they can define a variable. They act like if they were kidnapped by aliens, went through medical experiments and than after a month were released still uncoscious and forcly put behind a computer monitor at some university and here they are and they have no clue why they are there and what happens. If you ask me I don't really care as long as they dont waste my time and sabotaging me. But they do. I have to sit together with them and waste hours after hours listnening to them talking none programming related stuff and pretend I can't program because I have to be "goo
Rather than quitting CS altogether, you might be better off quitting your current CS program for a more challenging program at a nationally recognized college. My experience was that CS was quite challenging, and my fellow students quite intelligent, so there is hope to find a program worthy of your knowledge and ability. I agree with the poster who said that a degree was the white-collar equivalent of a union card, which is necessary to get a job at many sites no matter how good you were. If you want to work in CS, and particularly if you want the good jobs doing challenging work, you need a degree. You should also know that recruiters and hiring managers frequently know which colleges have good programs, and may sort your resume according to that knowledge, or they may ask questions that are only covered in good programs, and sort your resume by your ability to answer. But be careful what you wish for. A good CS program will be harder. If you will just end up complaining on codeproject that the classes are too hard and there is too much homework, maybe you should drop out and open a gluten-free bakery or something.
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Greg Utas wrote:
The main reason for getting a degree is that some employers won't hire you without one.
As an acquaintance of mine has put it: "A college degree is a modern white collar union card. It's neither a necessary nor sufficient condition to prove you can do the job; but just like in great-grandpa's day without ex a plumbers union card there were a lot of job sites you won't even get a chance to talk to the hiring manager without one."
Did you ever see history portrayed as an old man with a wise brow and pulseless heart, weighing all things in the balance of reason? Is not rather the genius of history like an eternal, imploring maiden, full of fire, with a burning heart and flaming soul, humanly warm and humanly beautiful? --Zachris Topelius
In the past year or so, I ran into an uptick of jobs require the degree. I don't have one so was passed over. The degree is pretty much useless on what you will be doing.
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In the past year or so, I ran into an uptick of jobs require the degree. I don't have one so was passed over. The degree is pretty much useless on what you will be doing.
The degree shows that you can take a hard task and stick with it for several years. Once you're a senior dev, your resume should be able to do that (assuming you're not a serial job-hopper or keep picking bum companies and get downsized over and over again); but the bigger the company the more likely HR is an immovable object without a brain.
Did you ever see history portrayed as an old man with a wise brow and pulseless heart, weighing all things in the balance of reason? Is not rather the genius of history like an eternal, imploring maiden, full of fire, with a burning heart and flaming soul, humanly warm and humanly beautiful? --Zachris Topelius
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Here I am again. I don't know if you remember me, but it's me who is always complaying about my CS degree. In the beginning my courses were challanging and I even wrote about it here, but I was working hard and systematically and I came to a point where my classes started to feel like there were going in slow motion, they became more worthless and worthless. I stopped to go to lectures because they are just waste of my time. We are taught obvious things that anyone can learn in five minutes for a almost a half year. In one week I can finish 800-pages programming book or complete two 8-hour tutorials or more while the teachers still show us how to draw an UML-diagram. I thought I could force myself to keep going, but after I started my first group assignment I said to myself: "Enough is enough". I ended up in a group of people who are totaly not intrested in porgramming and have zero knowledge about it. And I'm not talking about writing bad code. No, they can't code at all. If you show them maybe they do, but they do it as if a nazi forced them to do it and they just write some code that doesn't even work, only to get rid of me. They have better grades than me but It's me who has to teach them and explain to them the basics of programming that we had exams of. I don't even know how they came so far. I guess they copied and pasted the code or asked someone to do it for them - because they are con artists for sure. So my question is: What does my degree exactly proving? I learned everything by myself. This school didn't teach me anything - the same goes for my classamtes who can program, they already could do it before they got into this circus for college and the rest of my classmates are just lazy con artists who will take their degree thank's to group assignments which are usually done by one hard working, programming intrested and passionate slave. Because if you ask me I would never ever employ half of my classmates. I don't even know if they can define a variable. They act like if they were kidnapped by aliens, went through medical experiments and than after a month were released still uncoscious and forcly put behind a computer monitor at some university and here they are and they have no clue why they are there and what happens. If you ask me I don't really care as long as they dont waste my time and sabotaging me. But they do. I have to sit together with them and waste hours after hours listnening to them talking none programming related stuff and pretend I can't program because I have to be "goo
You might consider applying for jobs while you are still a student. Tell the interviewers what you told us except the part about your co-workers. If you get an offer you might consider quitting school. You might consider deciding whether there are organizations you wish to work for and if there are apply to those until one hires you. That is what I wish I had done. I am fascinated by IBM and Argonne Labs. I think of IBM as the greatest company in the world and would be happy to sweep their floors wearing an IBM shirt and IBM cap and Argonne Labs is near my previous residence and they of course do great work. All this is free advice which of course means it is worthless or perhaps even worse then worthless. Best of luck to you - Cheerio
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The degree shows that you can take a hard task and stick with it for several years. Once you're a senior dev, your resume should be able to do that (assuming you're not a serial job-hopper or keep picking bum companies and get downsized over and over again); but the bigger the company the more likely HR is an immovable object without a brain.
Did you ever see history portrayed as an old man with a wise brow and pulseless heart, weighing all things in the balance of reason? Is not rather the genius of history like an eternal, imploring maiden, full of fire, with a burning heart and flaming soul, humanly warm and humanly beautiful? --Zachris Topelius
That sounds good. But is not always the case. I have 20 + years of Senior Dev experience. I have ran into a number of companies that would even talk to me without a degree even with a Secret Clearance and creating a project from scratch that is still in the market. Fortunately not all, I just landed a job as a Lead Dev. Many companies HR is really IR (Inhuman Relations). It is HR that in many times make the degree mandatory. The could
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Here I am again. I don't know if you remember me, but it's me who is always complaying about my CS degree. In the beginning my courses were challanging and I even wrote about it here, but I was working hard and systematically and I came to a point where my classes started to feel like there were going in slow motion, they became more worthless and worthless. I stopped to go to lectures because they are just waste of my time. We are taught obvious things that anyone can learn in five minutes for a almost a half year. In one week I can finish 800-pages programming book or complete two 8-hour tutorials or more while the teachers still show us how to draw an UML-diagram. I thought I could force myself to keep going, but after I started my first group assignment I said to myself: "Enough is enough". I ended up in a group of people who are totaly not intrested in porgramming and have zero knowledge about it. And I'm not talking about writing bad code. No, they can't code at all. If you show them maybe they do, but they do it as if a nazi forced them to do it and they just write some code that doesn't even work, only to get rid of me. They have better grades than me but It's me who has to teach them and explain to them the basics of programming that we had exams of. I don't even know how they came so far. I guess they copied and pasted the code or asked someone to do it for them - because they are con artists for sure. So my question is: What does my degree exactly proving? I learned everything by myself. This school didn't teach me anything - the same goes for my classamtes who can program, they already could do it before they got into this circus for college and the rest of my classmates are just lazy con artists who will take their degree thank's to group assignments which are usually done by one hard working, programming intrested and passionate slave. Because if you ask me I would never ever employ half of my classmates. I don't even know if they can define a variable. They act like if they were kidnapped by aliens, went through medical experiments and than after a month were released still uncoscious and forcly put behind a computer monitor at some university and here they are and they have no clue why they are there and what happens. If you ask me I don't really care as long as they dont waste my time and sabotaging me. But they do. I have to sit together with them and waste hours after hours listnening to them talking none programming related stuff and pretend I can't program because I have to be "goo
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Here I am again. I don't know if you remember me, but it's me who is always complaying about my CS degree. In the beginning my courses were challanging and I even wrote about it here, but I was working hard and systematically and I came to a point where my classes started to feel like there were going in slow motion, they became more worthless and worthless. I stopped to go to lectures because they are just waste of my time. We are taught obvious things that anyone can learn in five minutes for a almost a half year. In one week I can finish 800-pages programming book or complete two 8-hour tutorials or more while the teachers still show us how to draw an UML-diagram. I thought I could force myself to keep going, but after I started my first group assignment I said to myself: "Enough is enough". I ended up in a group of people who are totaly not intrested in porgramming and have zero knowledge about it. And I'm not talking about writing bad code. No, they can't code at all. If you show them maybe they do, but they do it as if a nazi forced them to do it and they just write some code that doesn't even work, only to get rid of me. They have better grades than me but It's me who has to teach them and explain to them the basics of programming that we had exams of. I don't even know how they came so far. I guess they copied and pasted the code or asked someone to do it for them - because they are con artists for sure. So my question is: What does my degree exactly proving? I learned everything by myself. This school didn't teach me anything - the same goes for my classamtes who can program, they already could do it before they got into this circus for college and the rest of my classmates are just lazy con artists who will take their degree thank's to group assignments which are usually done by one hard working, programming intrested and passionate slave. Because if you ask me I would never ever employ half of my classmates. I don't even know if they can define a variable. They act like if they were kidnapped by aliens, went through medical experiments and than after a month were released still uncoscious and forcly put behind a computer monitor at some university and here they are and they have no clue why they are there and what happens. If you ask me I don't really care as long as they dont waste my time and sabotaging me. But they do. I have to sit together with them and waste hours after hours listnening to them talking none programming related stuff and pretend I can't program because I have to be "goo
Based on my experiences it can be harder to return to university once you have left. So, if I were in your position I would stay and complete the degree before leaving school. You could apply for bursaries if you are low on cash and can prove that you need money to satisfy your needs. A completed degree makes you more attractive to big corporations when you don't have a lot of related experience so your starting wage will be higher that way.
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Here I am again. I don't know if you remember me, but it's me who is always complaying about my CS degree. In the beginning my courses were challanging and I even wrote about it here, but I was working hard and systematically and I came to a point where my classes started to feel like there were going in slow motion, they became more worthless and worthless. I stopped to go to lectures because they are just waste of my time. We are taught obvious things that anyone can learn in five minutes for a almost a half year. In one week I can finish 800-pages programming book or complete two 8-hour tutorials or more while the teachers still show us how to draw an UML-diagram. I thought I could force myself to keep going, but after I started my first group assignment I said to myself: "Enough is enough". I ended up in a group of people who are totaly not intrested in porgramming and have zero knowledge about it. And I'm not talking about writing bad code. No, they can't code at all. If you show them maybe they do, but they do it as if a nazi forced them to do it and they just write some code that doesn't even work, only to get rid of me. They have better grades than me but It's me who has to teach them and explain to them the basics of programming that we had exams of. I don't even know how they came so far. I guess they copied and pasted the code or asked someone to do it for them - because they are con artists for sure. So my question is: What does my degree exactly proving? I learned everything by myself. This school didn't teach me anything - the same goes for my classamtes who can program, they already could do it before they got into this circus for college and the rest of my classmates are just lazy con artists who will take their degree thank's to group assignments which are usually done by one hard working, programming intrested and passionate slave. Because if you ask me I would never ever employ half of my classmates. I don't even know if they can define a variable. They act like if they were kidnapped by aliens, went through medical experiments and than after a month were released still uncoscious and forcly put behind a computer monitor at some university and here they are and they have no clue why they are there and what happens. If you ask me I don't really care as long as they dont waste my time and sabotaging me. But they do. I have to sit together with them and waste hours after hours listnening to them talking none programming related stuff and pretend I can't program because I have to be "goo
This was the comment from one of the folks responding to your question. "The degree shows that you can take a hard task and stick with it for several years." As a person who does not have a degree and one who hires programmers this is the rule that works for my staff. 1. If you have a PHD you are not eligible ( you have too many years of people who can't work in this field "Teachers" telling you your great ) 2. If you can do the work and you are good at it you are in. ( meaning if you show that you program because you get a buzz out of it, that is what I'm looking for ) 3. A degree? It has always been if you can do the work then you can have the job. 4. HR departments are now full of people who have a degree and they think it matters but who would want to work for a company that let's those people make important decisions. 5. Finally - If you think you are the kind of person who can take a hard task and work at it for years then you need to find a different kind of work. Yes certainly you will have to work at programming very hard just to keep up but think about it. If you are just here for the 8 to 5 it will drain your life away.