More Weasel Words.
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yes Musk is a weasel and in general a blow hard. As for him delivering. I am not 100% sure on that. But he does recruit and reward good talent and he does a good job at being visionary. Bitcoin - yes we have always known that. Solar - Solar cells like any product weren't that good when first produced. They were expensive and the return was less than 8% or so. Now though. The manufacturing process has been improved a great deal. And also the efficiency has improved drastically. nearly 50% in some cases. So I am not sure that can be much of an argument. But the comments about the rare earth metals and other important elements for producing everything we use. That is huge. Seriously huge. We are seeing this already in computer screens and batteries for cell phones. It is harder and harder to find the minerals needed to produce what people want to consume. And are we going to stop people from consuming. No. Just look at the "gas shortage" this week. People will over consume if they don't think there is enough. Just because of me first mentality. People are stupid. People are stupid and I think Musk knows this and is using it against them.
To err is human to really elephant it up you need a computer
rnbergren wrote:
But the comments about the rare earth metals and other important elements for producing everything we use. That is huge. Seriously huge. We are seeing this already in computer screens and batteries for cell phones. It is harder and harder to find the minerals needed to produce what people want to consume.
Despite their name, rare-earth elements are relatively plentiful in Earth's crust, with cerium being more abundant than copper; they are just difficult to extract. The problem with them being "harder to find" is due to the combination of because China being the world's leading producer and the US-China relations at the moment. This is making it difficult for the US to obtain them.
Nothing succeeds like a budgie without teeth.
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Musk is no longer taking Bitcoin for his cars ... he just found out mining uses a lot of energy ... and fossil fuels. Setting the stage for his next move (a "cheaper" currency).
It was only in wine that he laid down no limit for himself, but he did not allow himself to be confused by it. ― Confucian Analects: Rules of Confucius about his food
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It seems to me that discussions in codeproject are getting more and more like Twitter spats
What, when one person proclaims to be correct (ALL THE TIME), and all others are wrong? In that case, I suppose you have a point. :thumbsup:
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Yeah - I understand - knowledge really hurts you head.
"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein
"If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010
You touched on something that I've wondered how it all shook out. You'd think that someone would put all this down and list the pros, cons, and costs. Then you could see which problems you could solve and move forward with the best solution. Unfortunately, money gets involved and everyone is just using salesman speak (conning) the next person to put money in their pocket...
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Member 12924312 wrote:
The product of bitcoin mining is a completed transaction, at the lowest cost.
No - it's to convert vast quantities of energy into something with speculative value and no intrinsic value. However, you do, at least, see that bigger picture is out there - nothing happens without sources and sinks for materials and energy. Most just look at the shiny promises. However, for your disdain based upon the IEA's comments, consider that no matter what and where we go we will need to build further infrastructure. In this case, I expand infrastructure to it's true magnitude, to wit, that in include not only the means transportation of materials and energy but the manufacturing that is required to support the infrastructure . . . which itself puts additional demands upon it. We more-or-less agree on this portion. Where we probably diverge is that presuming you don't greatly change the manner in which our planetary culture is evolving, we'll still need more power, more minerals, more mining to get them, and so forth. It all comes down to a matter of planning long-term or short-term for the full impact. By "full", I mean globally and environmentally as well as economically. Bitcoin is just another massive gambling forum - worse, if that can be imagined - than the current state of the world's stock markets.
"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein
"If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010
I perused the report for my entertainment and a sense of curiosity how all this mining was going to take place. And well, no surprise it has to be "sustainable". We can stop right there, because mining is not sustainable, just like oil extraction is not, and it is expensive, and dusty, and needs lots of energy to move heavy stuff around, break it up, and refine the rocks to the desirable end product, all the while emitting other metals into the air. It is just quite entertaing that one of these metals is cobalt. That is not an environmentally friendly metal. Where is all the mining going to take place? Third world countries where the locals do not have the funds, or know how to set up large mining operations, let alone make them sustainable. And just like before large corporations will do it for them and the locals will get a fraction of the value. And then the transportation nightmare starts to move the metals to where they are needed, so that means rail cars, bulk shipping, etc. All through large landmasses where there is no infrastructure to do this "sustainable". All the while emitting CO2 throughout this entire process. None of this matters, the politicians don't have the mental capabilities to understand, and if they could, would chose self interest over feasibility. Trillions will be wasted. The useful idiots will chant, and buy electric vehicles.
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I perused the report for my entertainment and a sense of curiosity how all this mining was going to take place. And well, no surprise it has to be "sustainable". We can stop right there, because mining is not sustainable, just like oil extraction is not, and it is expensive, and dusty, and needs lots of energy to move heavy stuff around, break it up, and refine the rocks to the desirable end product, all the while emitting other metals into the air. It is just quite entertaing that one of these metals is cobalt. That is not an environmentally friendly metal. Where is all the mining going to take place? Third world countries where the locals do not have the funds, or know how to set up large mining operations, let alone make them sustainable. And just like before large corporations will do it for them and the locals will get a fraction of the value. And then the transportation nightmare starts to move the metals to where they are needed, so that means rail cars, bulk shipping, etc. All through large landmasses where there is no infrastructure to do this "sustainable". All the while emitting CO2 throughout this entire process. None of this matters, the politicians don't have the mental capabilities to understand, and if they could, would chose self interest over feasibility. Trillions will be wasted. The useful idiots will chant, and buy electric vehicles.
It seems easy to find problems - and what are the options? Like herbicides and pesticides for farming - I'd rather they did without, but without them we'd lose half our crop to vermin (as elsewhere whiteout these). One hopeful option was, for example GMO Corn that contains a bacterial toxin (one used by organic farmers) so that the crop is spared without spraying. But the complainers for these things dread that even more than the toxic sprays ! ? ! So, who's to starve while the complainers complain with while their BELLIES ARE FULL ? One option, of course, is to eliminate say, about half the world's population. That would definitely cut demand. All the points you bring up are correct - increasing demand. It's a cycle. But where's the solutions to these - and I mean real solutions, not just "We Must Stop (doing whatever) Now"?
"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein
"If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010
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Slacker007 wrote:
I wonder how much "energy" his Tesla manufacturing plants consume....compared to say, Bitcoin mining.
Not quite a relevant comparison since, like it or not, Teslas are a product of the manufacturing vs. nothing is the product of bitcoin mining. There is a good question to consider: except for those Teslas (and all electric-only vehicles) that happen to get charged from Soloar/Wind/Hydroelectric/nuclear/&etc., they most likely use more energy than a regular vehicle. Why you may ask? Well every step in anything you do has an efficiency of less than 100%. Charging the vehicles with electricity produced from fossil fuels thus waste energy for this extra step (rather than burning fuel where its used: the engine). Added waste are power line transmission losses. All it really does is centralize the pollution (which has some value locally but not globally). That being said: hybrids, which don't have to be plugged in, save energy if you consider the excellent fuel economy. As for hydrogen fueled vehicles? At this point, there is more CO2 pollution from producing the hydrogen (typically from oil conversion) than from use at the vehicle. Last thing: it shows good insight that you consider the manufacturing process. Consider: does a solar cell, during it's lifetime, produce more energy than it cost to produce? Purifying silicon, starting from sand, is a very very energy intensive process (like aluminum production).
"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein
"If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010
Internal combustion engines are much less efficient than electric motors and batteries. There is loss in transmission lines and electrical storage is a real problem compared to hydro or carbon based fuels. If you have an efficient turbine generating power at peak performance I would think that the overall efficiency is a win for electric cars. Now, if you consider the entire life cycle of all the components and the production, I don't know. Batteries are expensive to produce, but then again, so are engine motors and transmissions. Would be great to see the math on that. Not sure where to even get the data to start, though.
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It seems easy to find problems - and what are the options? Like herbicides and pesticides for farming - I'd rather they did without, but without them we'd lose half our crop to vermin (as elsewhere whiteout these). One hopeful option was, for example GMO Corn that contains a bacterial toxin (one used by organic farmers) so that the crop is spared without spraying. But the complainers for these things dread that even more than the toxic sprays ! ? ! So, who's to starve while the complainers complain with while their BELLIES ARE FULL ? One option, of course, is to eliminate say, about half the world's population. That would definitely cut demand. All the points you bring up are correct - increasing demand. It's a cycle. But where's the solutions to these - and I mean real solutions, not just "We Must Stop (doing whatever) Now"?
"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein
"If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010
The real answer is a combination - but the obvious solutions include: * Waste less. Tons of perfectly good food goes to landfill each year. You could probably hang onto your mobile phone for an extra year. Do you really need 12 pairs of shoes (thinking more about my wife for this one). * Re-use and repair. If you can use something for longer before you throw it away, in most cases it's better for the environment. Support right to repair legislation. * Recycle - recycling is hard. It has just about never been an economical prospect to recycle (other than glass bottles and aluminum cans). The trick is to build in the recyclability into the product. Make things easy to disassemble, use materials and components that can be more easily recycled. Require that product sellers take back used goods for recycling as part of the lifecycle. * Most importantly - make sure all of the preceding points are considerations in your purchasing. The obstacles are many, but one of the biggest ones is people over rating their contribution to being green based on what they said in a social media platform vs what they actually did for them selves.
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The real answer is a combination - but the obvious solutions include: * Waste less. Tons of perfectly good food goes to landfill each year. You could probably hang onto your mobile phone for an extra year. Do you really need 12 pairs of shoes (thinking more about my wife for this one). * Re-use and repair. If you can use something for longer before you throw it away, in most cases it's better for the environment. Support right to repair legislation. * Recycle - recycling is hard. It has just about never been an economical prospect to recycle (other than glass bottles and aluminum cans). The trick is to build in the recyclability into the product. Make things easy to disassemble, use materials and components that can be more easily recycled. Require that product sellers take back used goods for recycling as part of the lifecycle. * Most importantly - make sure all of the preceding points are considerations in your purchasing. The obstacles are many, but one of the biggest ones is people over rating their contribution to being green based on what they said in a social media platform vs what they actually did for them selves.
I've lived a lifetime, by my nature, of reuse. A bit of a pack rat. My opionion, in the current context is that the most efficient way to recycled is to reuse. For years, bought used cars and kept them until they weren't worth keeping. Now, not willing to climb under vehicles before buying them I buy a new one - which I can keep that many more years. Before they reduced the types of plastic they accept, we produced very little waste. Paper, plastic, glass: recycle. Most of the food into the compost. And upstream savings on a grand scale: soon to be 50 years vegetarian. So much saved not feeding livestock for the slaughter (10:1 food conversion - an absurd luxury). But it's all cheating, in a way, as it is, as I said, in my nature and such consumption is natural. One of my most important energy savings is, aside from here in the CP Lounge, I don't belong to any social media. Just a simple flip-phone owner.
"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein
"If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010
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It seems easy to find problems - and what are the options? Like herbicides and pesticides for farming - I'd rather they did without, but without them we'd lose half our crop to vermin (as elsewhere whiteout these). One hopeful option was, for example GMO Corn that contains a bacterial toxin (one used by organic farmers) so that the crop is spared without spraying. But the complainers for these things dread that even more than the toxic sprays ! ? ! So, who's to starve while the complainers complain with while their BELLIES ARE FULL ? One option, of course, is to eliminate say, about half the world's population. That would definitely cut demand. All the points you bring up are correct - increasing demand. It's a cycle. But where's the solutions to these - and I mean real solutions, not just "We Must Stop (doing whatever) Now"?
"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein
"If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010
We must stop doing things because.... is a sleight of hand as it always ignores the cost side. But you can piece the information together: fundamental transform doing with less skyrocketing energy prices great reset too many people large groups of people do not use AC redistribution