What the brain dead are talking about...
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Odd fact and I'm not making this up: every self professed christian (male) that I have ever known more than casually (co-workers etc) at one point or another related to me a story about how they were having fun killing insects. The latest was three days ago when the guy who installed our flooring was at our house for two days and we talked about a variety of things, one of them was how he had taken his "kid" out to the back yard and found a huge spider web so they were hunting for insects and throwing them into the web to see it attack them, then they "burned it". Why this fascinatin with killing insects should be I have no idea, seems like more than co-incidence, maybe there is something in the bible that condones killing insects? Possibly a translation about killing other sects?
J Cardinal wrote: Possibly a translation about killing other sects? This is actually quite amusing - until you realise that it's sadly true. Religion has been the cause of more wars than anything else in history. The hypocrisy of religion, on every level, is absolutely staggering.
There are 10 kinds of people - those that get binary and those that don't.
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J Cardinal wrote: If this is what the christians are spending their time doing these days It is a common error to judge a large group by vocal minorities within it. The idiots who think that Harry Potter is some sort of tool of evil clearly need to up their medication. I don't believe that more than 5% of people who claim Christianity feel this way, but even if they do, it's a sad fact that the majority of 'christian' people are simply religious, and not really interested in more than what makes them feel comfortable. Sometimes having an enemy to focus on gives people comfort. Go figure. J Cardinal wrote: In fact, call me one anyway, since I still have a complete and working brain. One could easily respond in a manner as insulting as your comment, but perhaps I'll leave you pagans to the making of ignorant comments. It proves that your post does not mean that the dividing line between those who claim Christianity and those who do not is a dividing line on the basis of intelligence. Christian NO MATTER HOW MUCH BIG IS THE WORD SIZE ,THE DATA MUCT BE TRANSPORTED INTO THE CPU. - Vinod Sharma Anonymous wrote: OK. I read a c++ book. Or...a bit of it anyway. I'm sick of that evil looking console window. I think you are a good candidate for Visual Basic. - Nemanja Trifunovic
Christians don't have a monopoly on stupid. Good response. 5 worthy. :)
Jason Henderson
"If you are going through hell, keep going." - Winston Churchill
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Christian Graus wrote: It is a common error to judge a large group by vocal minorities within it. Sure, I agree, but nothing get's a reaction from a group faster than painting them all with one stroke of the "brush". I suspect the group that is primarily giving christians a bad name these days is probably the so called "born again" ones, at least based on my entirely unscientific observation of many that I have known; and felt a strange mixture of both embarassment and sadness for over the years. After all (as attributed to Lao Tzu) "Those who know do not speak, those who speak do not know". Christian Graus wrote: One could easily respond in a manner as insulting as your comment, but perhaps I'll leave you pagans to the making of ignorant comments. It proves that your post does not mean that the dividing line between those who claim Christianity and those who do not is a dividing line on the basis of intelligence Heh heh! Well said! I'll make a personal exception in your case if in fact you are a Christian in more than name alone. I think my bias comes from being located so close to the United States and seeing things claimed in the name of "god" in both the political arena and the popular one that, were I believer I should find truly appalling and an embarassment. Ahh, sadly these days it's not considered a good thing to challenge popular ideas or practice free speech in some countries and there are so many Americans on this board... (I thought I would get it from one of them first)
J Cardinal wrote: Ahh, sadly these days it's not considered a good thing to challenge popular ideas or practice free speech in some countries and there are so many Americans on this board... Isn't that what these people are doing? You're talking out of both side of your mouth here. BTW, I happen to like the Harry Potter books and I'm a Christian.
Jason Henderson
"If you are going through hell, keep going." - Winston Churchill
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http://www.jesusjournal.com/articles/publish/article_448.html[^] If this is what the christians are spending their time doing these days, call me a pagan. In fact, call me one anyway, since I still have a complete and working brain.
Yes, this is really something to be concerned about. Its too damned bad we live in a society where parents try to give their children moral guidance. I'll be glad when we finally live in a society where all children get their morality from pop culture or from the state. "More capitalism, please..."
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http://www.jesusjournal.com/articles/publish/article_448.html[^] If this is what the christians are spending their time doing these days, call me a pagan. In fact, call me one anyway, since I still have a complete and working brain.
The Harry Potter books and the Bible are both filled with supernatural fantasy. The kids reading the Potter books treat it as light-hearted escapism. The adult Christians also seek an escape in their world. The difference is that they can't differentiate between fantasy and reality.
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The Harry Potter books and the Bible are both filled with supernatural fantasy. The kids reading the Potter books treat it as light-hearted escapism. The adult Christians also seek an escape in their world. The difference is that they can't differentiate between fantasy and reality.
I read an interesting article recently comparing the philosophy and approach between books and movies like Harry Potter versus the Bible. The contention was that the Potter-like stories (even including the Matrix) all concerned man's being "enlightened" by a select few who already knew the secret. The Bible, on the other hand, has man being enlightened by the grace of God. That fundamental difference, apparently, is quite a cause of contention. Dave "You can say that again." -- Dept. of Redundancy Dept.
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http://www.jesusjournal.com/articles/publish/article_448.html[^] If this is what the christians are spending their time doing these days, call me a pagan. In fact, call me one anyway, since I still have a complete and working brain.
Christians have always been doing stupid things like that. Pagan's still worships a god/gods and have rituals they must go to. You need something that makes logical sense when analized. I prefer a Diest Realist or Agnostic.
..........Zack.......... Developer Extraordinaire && Full Time Geek
"Don't go out of your way to step on people's toes, but don't stop walking all-together." GCS\P\SS d- s-:- a-- C++$ U--- P--- L- E- W++ N o K-? w+++ O++ !M-- V PS+ PE Y+ PGP t+ 5+ X+ R++ tv++ b++ DI++ D+++ G+>G++++ e* h- r++ y+
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J Cardinal wrote: If this is what the christians are spending their time doing these days It is a common error to judge a large group by vocal minorities within it. The idiots who think that Harry Potter is some sort of tool of evil clearly need to up their medication. I don't believe that more than 5% of people who claim Christianity feel this way, but even if they do, it's a sad fact that the majority of 'christian' people are simply religious, and not really interested in more than what makes them feel comfortable. Sometimes having an enemy to focus on gives people comfort. Go figure. J Cardinal wrote: In fact, call me one anyway, since I still have a complete and working brain. One could easily respond in a manner as insulting as your comment, but perhaps I'll leave you pagans to the making of ignorant comments. It proves that your post does not mean that the dividing line between those who claim Christianity and those who do not is a dividing line on the basis of intelligence. Christian NO MATTER HOW MUCH BIG IS THE WORD SIZE ,THE DATA MUCT BE TRANSPORTED INTO THE CPU. - Vinod Sharma Anonymous wrote: OK. I read a c++ book. Or...a bit of it anyway. I'm sick of that evil looking console window. I think you are a good candidate for Visual Basic. - Nemanja Trifunovic
Christian Graus wrote: Christianity and those who do not is a dividing line on the basis of intelligence Somewhat correct. The dividing line of intellegence is logic. There are several logic errors when talking about Christianity: 1.) Belief in God. This in and of itself is not a logic error. I belive in a God, but the difference is the why and how that concusion was come to. I believe because of several logic proofs that I won't get into 'cause it takes up too much time and it'll just belabor the point. Christians believe in God, but most don't know why and did not come to this belief through a series of logical arguments, but rather because a.) a book told them to b.) a high level of their faith told them to 2.) "Because (insert book of choice here) says so". The bible is a good book, but it's just that, a book. It's moral and historical value is indeed great, but that's about it. People take it too far. It's ok to take the factual stuff and have fun with it, but it's when you take the non-factual text and warp it to mean what you want. Anyone can do this, in fact, if you really read the bible, and not just the parts that fit your agenda, there's a lot of things that go against Christianity. Again, not gonna go into it now. 3.) Blind faith in a person who happens to be high up on the Christian totem pole. People need to put ther own mind to work and think about what different things mean. If you pay the church money 'cause you are supposed to or a book or person told you, logic error. If you pay because they give it to this charity which you belive in, no logic error. Basically, if you know what you believe and why, you're good to go. You can believe that the world is really a giant hunk of cheese, and if you logically came to that conclusion through much thought and research, go for it man!
..........Zack.......... Developer Extraordinaire && Full Time Geek
"Don't go out of your way to step on people's toes, but don't stop walking all-together." GCS\P\SS d- s-:- a-- C++$ U--- P--- L- E- W++ N o K-? w+++ O++ !M-- V PS+ PE Y+ PGP t+ 5+ X+ R++ tv++ b++ DI++ D+++ G+>G++++ e* h- r++ y+
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Christian Graus wrote: Christianity and those who do not is a dividing line on the basis of intelligence Somewhat correct. The dividing line of intellegence is logic. There are several logic errors when talking about Christianity: 1.) Belief in God. This in and of itself is not a logic error. I belive in a God, but the difference is the why and how that concusion was come to. I believe because of several logic proofs that I won't get into 'cause it takes up too much time and it'll just belabor the point. Christians believe in God, but most don't know why and did not come to this belief through a series of logical arguments, but rather because a.) a book told them to b.) a high level of their faith told them to 2.) "Because (insert book of choice here) says so". The bible is a good book, but it's just that, a book. It's moral and historical value is indeed great, but that's about it. People take it too far. It's ok to take the factual stuff and have fun with it, but it's when you take the non-factual text and warp it to mean what you want. Anyone can do this, in fact, if you really read the bible, and not just the parts that fit your agenda, there's a lot of things that go against Christianity. Again, not gonna go into it now. 3.) Blind faith in a person who happens to be high up on the Christian totem pole. People need to put ther own mind to work and think about what different things mean. If you pay the church money 'cause you are supposed to or a book or person told you, logic error. If you pay because they give it to this charity which you belive in, no logic error. Basically, if you know what you believe and why, you're good to go. You can believe that the world is really a giant hunk of cheese, and if you logically came to that conclusion through much thought and research, go for it man!
..........Zack.......... Developer Extraordinaire && Full Time Geek
"Don't go out of your way to step on people's toes, but don't stop walking all-together." GCS\P\SS d- s-:- a-- C++$ U--- P--- L- E- W++ N o K-? w+++ O++ !M-- V PS+ PE Y+ PGP t+ 5+ X+ R++ tv++ b++ DI++ D+++ G+>G++++ e* h- r++ y+
Belief in God. This in and of itself is not a logic error. I belive in a God, but the difference is the why and how that concusion was come to. I believe because of several logic proofs that I won't get into You can't prove God exists. It's like trying to prove that the universe was created 5 seconds ago with all the scientific evidence to show that the universe is really billions of years old. So, you obviously put your faith in some kind of crazy logic that really seems to makes sense to you, but don't look down on others who choose to renew their faith using other equally ridiculous justifications. Faith is by definition ridiculous - the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things unseen. - T
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Belief in God. This in and of itself is not a logic error. I belive in a God, but the difference is the why and how that concusion was come to. I believe because of several logic proofs that I won't get into You can't prove God exists. It's like trying to prove that the universe was created 5 seconds ago with all the scientific evidence to show that the universe is really billions of years old. So, you obviously put your faith in some kind of crazy logic that really seems to makes sense to you, but don't look down on others who choose to renew their faith using other equally ridiculous justifications. Faith is by definition ridiculous - the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things unseen. - T
Apperently you don't remeber the huge Theology post a month or so ago. You can prove a God exists at one point int time. This is not the Christian God. This is a God that started the creation of the universe in some way. Proof though Cuasality: Things are happening. For things to happen there must have been a cuase. The universe cannot be an infinite loop of cause and effects. There must have been a first uncaused cause. This I call God. Proof though nothingness: The universe at the beggining was infinte nothingness. Yet, now, there are things in the universe. You cannot get something from nothing. There must have been a first uncreated crator, this I call God. I can never undertand you Atheists. It takes too much faith to be an Atheist. Given a 65 Mustang. Where did it come from? "A car factory." How do you know? "The car is here." How is the car being here a justification for the factory? "Something had to create the car." I don't see a factory, so it doesn't exists. "We can go and see it." The area where you claimed it was burnt down several years ago. "There will be evidence that it existed." Another factory was built on top of it and the blueprints and all the documents for the factory were in the building when it burnt down. "People saw it." Everyone who ever saw it is dead. Given the above senario, it is impossible to prove that a factory ever existed. Yet, a car is here. "The peices of metal rondomly assembled themselves." Where did the metal come from? "It was mined." Where is the mine. ..... Given that it is impossible to prove that a mine existed for the metal to come from. Now, you have no proof of a factory to build the car or a mine for the metal to come from. Yet, the car sits there. Something had to of created it. What created it may no longer exists, but something at one point did exists. There's your crazy logic. Atheism logic: God doesn't exists because I can't see him. And where is the scientific logic that God doesn't exist? You are talking about a Christian God and how scientific evidence sometimes contradicts the bible. I reiterate strongly. I am not talking about a specific deity. I am talking about a God that somehow, in some way, started out the universe. Wether he created everything individually, or just put the Big Bang into motion, it's unknown, but something had to put matter into the universe somehow. This is God.
..........Zack.......... Developer Extraordinaire && Full Time Geek
"Don't go out of your way to
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http://www.jesusjournal.com/articles/publish/article_448.html[^] If this is what the christians are spending their time doing these days, call me a pagan. In fact, call me one anyway, since I still have a complete and working brain.
Ahhh, i love a good stereotyping! :) BW "I don't remember, but I know we played together because I've seen the posters." - Joe Walsh talking with Ozzy Osbourne about touring together in the 70's
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I read an interesting article recently comparing the philosophy and approach between books and movies like Harry Potter versus the Bible. The contention was that the Potter-like stories (even including the Matrix) all concerned man's being "enlightened" by a select few who already knew the secret. The Bible, on the other hand, has man being enlightened by the grace of God. That fundamental difference, apparently, is quite a cause of contention. Dave "You can say that again." -- Dept. of Redundancy Dept.
this reminds me that books are written for a specific audience. anyone capable of or inclined to apply theories like that to Harry Potter is probably outside that target audience. maybe Hegel or Marx or would be a better choice. :) To vote with no response is to follow the way of the coward.
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Christians have always been doing stupid things like that. Pagan's still worships a god/gods and have rituals they must go to. You need something that makes logical sense when analized. I prefer a Diest Realist or Agnostic.
..........Zack.......... Developer Extraordinaire && Full Time Geek
"Don't go out of your way to step on people's toes, but don't stop walking all-together." GCS\P\SS d- s-:- a-- C++$ U--- P--- L- E- W++ N o K-? w+++ O++ !M-- V PS+ PE Y+ PGP t+ 5+ X+ R++ tv++ b++ DI++ D+++ G+>G++++ e* h- r++ y+
The thing is Zack, it's not the religion that makes the idiot, nor is it intelligence that allows someone to find the truth. BW "I don't remember, but I know we played together because I've seen the posters." - Joe Walsh talking with Ozzy Osbourne about touring together in the 70's
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Apperently you don't remeber the huge Theology post a month or so ago. You can prove a God exists at one point int time. This is not the Christian God. This is a God that started the creation of the universe in some way. Proof though Cuasality: Things are happening. For things to happen there must have been a cuase. The universe cannot be an infinite loop of cause and effects. There must have been a first uncaused cause. This I call God. Proof though nothingness: The universe at the beggining was infinte nothingness. Yet, now, there are things in the universe. You cannot get something from nothing. There must have been a first uncreated crator, this I call God. I can never undertand you Atheists. It takes too much faith to be an Atheist. Given a 65 Mustang. Where did it come from? "A car factory." How do you know? "The car is here." How is the car being here a justification for the factory? "Something had to create the car." I don't see a factory, so it doesn't exists. "We can go and see it." The area where you claimed it was burnt down several years ago. "There will be evidence that it existed." Another factory was built on top of it and the blueprints and all the documents for the factory were in the building when it burnt down. "People saw it." Everyone who ever saw it is dead. Given the above senario, it is impossible to prove that a factory ever existed. Yet, a car is here. "The peices of metal rondomly assembled themselves." Where did the metal come from? "It was mined." Where is the mine. ..... Given that it is impossible to prove that a mine existed for the metal to come from. Now, you have no proof of a factory to build the car or a mine for the metal to come from. Yet, the car sits there. Something had to of created it. What created it may no longer exists, but something at one point did exists. There's your crazy logic. Atheism logic: God doesn't exists because I can't see him. And where is the scientific logic that God doesn't exist? You are talking about a Christian God and how scientific evidence sometimes contradicts the bible. I reiterate strongly. I am not talking about a specific deity. I am talking about a God that somehow, in some way, started out the universe. Wether he created everything individually, or just put the Big Bang into motion, it's unknown, but something had to put matter into the universe somehow. This is God.
..........Zack.......... Developer Extraordinaire && Full Time Geek
"Don't go out of your way to
Your 'proof' is based on a flawed assumption. Leap of faith #1: The universe cannot be an infinite loop of cause and effects. Why not? Prove the universe had a beginning. You can't. You can only assume/believe it had a beginning. Leap of faith #2: The universe at the beggining was infinte nothingness. Prove the universe had a beginning. Prove it was nothingness at the beginning. Sorry, 'infinite' nothingness. Maybe there's always been something. Then you go on to assume I'm an atheist (gee, thanks a lot) and you assume again that I'm going to try to prove that God doesn't exist, which I wouldn't do anyway - you can't prove he (or she) does exist, (and like you said) you sure as shit can't prove he (or she) doesn't exist. All I'm saying is don't get all high and mighty about your great logic, looking down with disdain on those who choose to believe because of tradition and spiritualism, because you're just as crazy as the rest of us who have faith in more than what we can see and touch. You believe the universe had a beginning? You're crazy, man. You're just crazy. - T
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J Cardinal wrote: Ahh, sadly these days it's not considered a good thing to challenge popular ideas or practice free speech in some countries and there are so many Americans on this board... Isn't that what these people are doing? You're talking out of both side of your mouth here. BTW, I happen to like the Harry Potter books and I'm a Christian.
Jason Henderson
"If you are going through hell, keep going." - Winston Churchill
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Ahhh, i love a good stereotyping! :) BW "I don't remember, but I know we played together because I've seen the posters." - Joe Walsh talking with Ozzy Osbourne about touring together in the 70's
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J Cardinal wrote: If this is what the christians are spending their time doing these days It is a common error to judge a large group by vocal minorities within it. The idiots who think that Harry Potter is some sort of tool of evil clearly need to up their medication. I don't believe that more than 5% of people who claim Christianity feel this way, but even if they do, it's a sad fact that the majority of 'christian' people are simply religious, and not really interested in more than what makes them feel comfortable. Sometimes having an enemy to focus on gives people comfort. Go figure. J Cardinal wrote: In fact, call me one anyway, since I still have a complete and working brain. One could easily respond in a manner as insulting as your comment, but perhaps I'll leave you pagans to the making of ignorant comments. It proves that your post does not mean that the dividing line between those who claim Christianity and those who do not is a dividing line on the basis of intelligence. Christian NO MATTER HOW MUCH BIG IS THE WORD SIZE ,THE DATA MUCT BE TRANSPORTED INTO THE CPU. - Vinod Sharma Anonymous wrote: OK. I read a c++ book. Or...a bit of it anyway. I'm sick of that evil looking console window. I think you are a good candidate for Visual Basic. - Nemanja Trifunovic
Christian Graus wrote: It is a common error to judge a large group by vocal minorities within it. Very true Christian Graus wrote: but perhaps I'll leave you pagans to the making of ignorant comments But then we like blaming others, without looking at our own actions :-) After all we are humans... hehehehehe
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Sadly, I'm not getting anywhere near the level of vitriolic rightous fervor back that I had hoped for. I guess this is just the wrong venue. ;) "Things are more like they are now than they ever were before." -- Dwight Eisenhower
Catch people on Monday. ;) Of course the topic (stupid [insert religious group] ) has been tossed around a good bit, and everyone realizes it doesn't go anywhere. Still, ignorance rox!! more bad mouthing, folks, more intolerance!! :) BW "I don't remember, but I know we played together because I've seen the posters." - Joe Walsh talking with Ozzy Osbourne about touring together in the 70's
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I though christianity was beyond reproach, why is everyone so defensive about it? If I was a christian I would just ignore the postings of heathens such as myself and laugh at their ignorance.
Person 1: "Everyone who wears the letter G on their shirt is an idiot." Person 2: "... but I'm wearing a letter G. Why do you think I'm an idiot?" Person 1: "Why are you getting so defensive? You're the one wearing the letter G. You should be used to people making fun of you. If I were wearing a letter G (which I'm not, because I think it's STUPID) I would just ignore it when people told me I'm an idiot."
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Apperently you don't remeber the huge Theology post a month or so ago. You can prove a God exists at one point int time. This is not the Christian God. This is a God that started the creation of the universe in some way. Proof though Cuasality: Things are happening. For things to happen there must have been a cuase. The universe cannot be an infinite loop of cause and effects. There must have been a first uncaused cause. This I call God. Proof though nothingness: The universe at the beggining was infinte nothingness. Yet, now, there are things in the universe. You cannot get something from nothing. There must have been a first uncreated crator, this I call God. I can never undertand you Atheists. It takes too much faith to be an Atheist. Given a 65 Mustang. Where did it come from? "A car factory." How do you know? "The car is here." How is the car being here a justification for the factory? "Something had to create the car." I don't see a factory, so it doesn't exists. "We can go and see it." The area where you claimed it was burnt down several years ago. "There will be evidence that it existed." Another factory was built on top of it and the blueprints and all the documents for the factory were in the building when it burnt down. "People saw it." Everyone who ever saw it is dead. Given the above senario, it is impossible to prove that a factory ever existed. Yet, a car is here. "The peices of metal rondomly assembled themselves." Where did the metal come from? "It was mined." Where is the mine. ..... Given that it is impossible to prove that a mine existed for the metal to come from. Now, you have no proof of a factory to build the car or a mine for the metal to come from. Yet, the car sits there. Something had to of created it. What created it may no longer exists, but something at one point did exists. There's your crazy logic. Atheism logic: God doesn't exists because I can't see him. And where is the scientific logic that God doesn't exist? You are talking about a Christian God and how scientific evidence sometimes contradicts the bible. I reiterate strongly. I am not talking about a specific deity. I am talking about a God that somehow, in some way, started out the universe. Wether he created everything individually, or just put the Big Bang into motion, it's unknown, but something had to put matter into the universe somehow. This is God.
..........Zack.......... Developer Extraordinaire && Full Time Geek
"Don't go out of your way to