Right to repair - Even More Important Than Ever
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It might just be about time to watch The Gods Must Be Crazy again. Thanks for words that made me remember it. :thumbsup:
YES!!! This! That is an amazing movie. that's a great suggestion for the movie tonight! :-D
"When you are dead, you won't even know that you are dead. It's a pain only felt by others; same thing when you are stupid." Ignorant - An individual without knowledge, but is willing to learn. Stupid - An individual without knowledge and is incapable of learning. Idiot - An individual without knowledge and allows social media to do the thinking for them.
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This man here (Louis Rossman) has been fighting for the "right to repair" movement/campaign for many years now. He has even partnered with farmers and farm equipment repair persons and companies (farmers right to repair - i.e. John Deere equipment, etc.). Louis Rossman owns his own tech repair company. Apple in particular is his main enemy, as Apple does not like "right to repair". https://www.youtube.com/user/rossmanngroup[^] I am all for right to repair: technology, machines, tractors, cars, etc. you name it.
I've never been an Apple fan, but they are the entire reason that "right to repair" is even required as a concept. I hate the whole company pretty deeply for that.
"Never attribute to malice that which can be explained by stupidity." - Hanlon's Razor
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We all know about the shortages of parts needed to manufacture electronics (and cars that need those components). Seems to me that this would make the "right-to-repair" arguments even stronger, because due to these shortages, we are reverting away from being a "throw-away" society. Thoughts?
".45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly" - JSOP, 2010
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You can never have too much ammo - unless you're swimming, or on fire. - JSOP, 2010
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When you pry the gun from my cold dead hands, be careful - the barrel will be very hot. - JSOP, 2013I can't understand how it is even possible for someone to tell me I can't repair a piece of hardware I bought. I can use it, I can rip it into pieces, I can paint it bright pink. But to not be allowed to repair? Isn't that overstepping the bounds a little? It also seems totally again any free-market argument one would raise. And that doesn't even touch on the moral issues with a law that says "we will force you to waste resources".
cheers Chris Maunder
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I can't understand how it is even possible for someone to tell me I can't repair a piece of hardware I bought. I can use it, I can rip it into pieces, I can paint it bright pink. But to not be allowed to repair? Isn't that overstepping the bounds a little? It also seems totally again any free-market argument one would raise. And that doesn't even touch on the moral issues with a law that says "we will force you to waste resources".
cheers Chris Maunder
The free-market argument would be that the purchase was subject to such a contract and you weren't forced to buy.
Robust Services Core | Software Techniques for Lemmings | Articles
The fox knows many things, but the hedgehog knows one big thing. -
The free-market argument would be that the purchase was subject to such a contract and you weren't forced to buy.
Robust Services Core | Software Techniques for Lemmings | Articles
The fox knows many things, but the hedgehog knows one big thing.Touche
cheers Chris Maunder
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I can't understand how it is even possible for someone to tell me I can't repair a piece of hardware I bought. I can use it, I can rip it into pieces, I can paint it bright pink. But to not be allowed to repair? Isn't that overstepping the bounds a little? It also seems totally again any free-market argument one would raise. And that doesn't even touch on the moral issues with a law that says "we will force you to waste resources".
cheers Chris Maunder
Is that what they even mean by "right to repair"? I was under the impression that "right to repair" zealots were demanding that manufacturers build products so they're not difficult to repair. Like screws instead of glues... Not sure I want my government or any other telling manufacturers how to design products. As long as a product is safe and functional, I prefer to let the market decide a product's fate.
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Donathan Hutchings wrote:
Companies like Apple seem more like dealers in this scenario and the customers more like junkies
I've despised Apple since I was a kid because of their outright arrogance. Their customers stick with them like it's a religion, and I've always found the whole thing to be downright disgusting. Apple to me represents crass consumerism in the worst way imaginable.
Just curious... which of Apple's competitors do you feel is less crass? Google? Microsoft? Samsung? Dell? HP? Lenovo? Why? I ask because they all seem equally crass to me. I know people just as loyal to these brands as I see others loyal to Apple and every one of these brands is out to make money for their investors.
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Is that what they even mean by "right to repair"? I was under the impression that "right to repair" zealots were demanding that manufacturers build products so they're not difficult to repair. Like screws instead of glues... Not sure I want my government or any other telling manufacturers how to design products. As long as a product is safe and functional, I prefer to let the market decide a product's fate.
I think it has more to do with licensed firmware/software, testers/analyzers, and parts availability. One of the things I always liked about Dell and a few others: they put maintenance manuals on line. But forget getting a parts for a 5 year old system. eBay is your friend there.
>64 If you can keep your head while those about you are losing theirs, perhaps you don't understand the situation.
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I think it has more to do with licensed firmware/software, testers/analyzers, and parts availability. One of the things I always liked about Dell and a few others: they put maintenance manuals on line. But forget getting a parts for a 5 year old system. eBay is your friend there.
>64 If you can keep your head while those about you are losing theirs, perhaps you don't understand the situation.
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Just curious... which of Apple's competitors do you feel is less crass? Google? Microsoft? Samsung? Dell? HP? Lenovo? Why? I ask because they all seem equally crass to me. I know people just as loyal to these brands as I see others loyal to Apple and every one of these brands is out to make money for their investors.
Have you watched any of Louis Rossman's videos? Spoiler Alert: Apple are bastards in ways the others you've mentioned could only dream of being. Around 20 years ago, Apple wanted $80 to _diagnose_ the problem with an $800 ipod. All I'd done was try to transfer files without using their iTunes crapplication. $1000 to diagnose the problem in a $10,000 car - I uh, I don't think so! That shop isn't there any more. The drycleaners next door were there 40 years ago and still are. :laugh:
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We all know about the shortages of parts needed to manufacture electronics (and cars that need those components). Seems to me that this would make the "right-to-repair" arguments even stronger, because due to these shortages, we are reverting away from being a "throw-away" society. Thoughts?
".45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly" - JSOP, 2010
-----
You can never have too much ammo - unless you're swimming, or on fire. - JSOP, 2010
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When you pry the gun from my cold dead hands, be careful - the barrel will be very hot. - JSOP, 2013right to repair is completely different than being able to MacGyver stuff. What's happened is a number of a$$holes in companies are trying to prevent anyone but the oem's from maintaining equipment. It's the equivalent to the subscription model software companies have been pushing (looking at you SciTools - thieving #$#$%$%$%%). The oems are trying to lock in their customers to the oems very expensive maintenance plans. Me? If it runs, I don't toss it. Multiple cars pushing 200k in the driveway.
Charlie Gilley <italic>Stuck in a dysfunctional matrix from which I must escape... "Where liberty dwells, there is my country." B. Franklin, 1783 “They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.” BF, 1759
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right to repair is completely different than being able to MacGyver stuff. What's happened is a number of a$$holes in companies are trying to prevent anyone but the oem's from maintaining equipment. It's the equivalent to the subscription model software companies have been pushing (looking at you SciTools - thieving #$#$%$%$%%). The oems are trying to lock in their customers to the oems very expensive maintenance plans. Me? If it runs, I don't toss it. Multiple cars pushing 200k in the driveway.
Charlie Gilley <italic>Stuck in a dysfunctional matrix from which I must escape... "Where liberty dwells, there is my country." B. Franklin, 1783 “They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.” BF, 1759
charlieg wrote:
Multiple cars pushing 200k in the driveway
Same here. I'm driving a 2002 Honda Civic that's going to have 1 light-second (186,282 miles) on the odometer some time in the next year. I'm totally geeked out over it, as I did the same thing on my first Honda (an '85 Accord).
Software Zen:
delete this; -
charlieg wrote:
Multiple cars pushing 200k in the driveway
Same here. I'm driving a 2002 Honda Civic that's going to have 1 light-second (186,282 miles) on the odometer some time in the next year. I'm totally geeked out over it, as I did the same thing on my first Honda (an '85 Accord).
Software Zen:
delete this; -
:doh: And here I was.... getting excited every time my mileage is a palindrome. You've aimed considerably higher than I.. Missed every digit being the same in my new car by about 5,000 kms. Oh well... only about another 104,000 kms to go! :laugh:
You could go for 300,000 km :-D ...
Software Zen:
delete this; -
You could go for 300,000 km :-D ...
Software Zen:
delete this; -
charlieg wrote:
Multiple cars pushing 200k in the driveway
Same here. I'm driving a 2002 Honda Civic that's going to have 1 light-second (186,282 miles) on the odometer some time in the next year. I'm totally geeked out over it, as I did the same thing on my first Honda (an '85 Accord).
Software Zen:
delete this;light - second folks epic comment alert!
Charlie Gilley <italic>Stuck in a dysfunctional matrix from which I must escape... "Where liberty dwells, there is my country." B. Franklin, 1783 “They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.” BF, 1759
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Just curious... which of Apple's competitors do you feel is less crass? Google? Microsoft? Samsung? Dell? HP? Lenovo? Why? I ask because they all seem equally crass to me. I know people just as loyal to these brands as I see others loyal to Apple and every one of these brands is out to make money for their investors.
Nobody - nobody is as "religious" about any other company as Apple's fans are. You might have people who are loyal to some of the companies you mentioned, but it's still not a religion to them. Don't confuse brand loyalty with...this. That's the distinction that makes them unique.
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Nobody - nobody is as "religious" about any other company as Apple's fans are. You might have people who are loyal to some of the companies you mentioned, but it's still not a religion to them. Don't confuse brand loyalty with...this. That's the distinction that makes them unique.
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You're probably right, although I don't know enough Tesla owners to form my own opinion on this yet. I actually only know two. One, I haven't yet spoken to and haven't got any of his thoughts, and the other...well, lets just say he got it brand new and it's spent 3 weeks in the shop because of "some electrical problem", as in, the headlights won't even come on. That's about all I know. I'm waiting to talk to him some more to figure out exactly WTF is going on.
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I've never been an Apple fan, but they are the entire reason that "right to repair" is even required as a concept. I hate the whole company pretty deeply for that.
"Never attribute to malice that which can be explained by stupidity." - Hanlon's Razor
