Kids these days!
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And why would we?
Best, Sander Azure DevOps Succinctly (free eBook) Azure Serverless Succinctly (free eBook) Migrating Apps to the Cloud with Azure arrgh.js - Bringing LINQ to JavaScript
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Don't know how to use a command prompt. :(
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My daughter is Comp Sci at uni and they use gcc and the like from command prompts on the *nix VMs they use. “Download this VM image to do this lab” I have seen her use powershell as well.
She will be better prepared than others then. Excellent.
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They clearly haven't been exposed to Ubuntu or similar. :laugh:
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DivWindow: Size, drag, minimize, and maximize floating windows with layout persistenceI'd make Raspberry Pi a required course. Not because a Pi is going to be practically useful; rather because of all the low level skills working with one teaches. College students aren't taught command line and don't know enough to ask about it. The quality and experience of the instructors is the real problem. My sons graduated from a state university in recent years. One is ChemE, and in his large dept about 5% of the instructors had any industry experience; all others had started "teaching" right after graduation. The quality of instruction and preparation for industry was abysmal. The other son is PaperE, and in his small dept 100% of the instructors had industry experience, most more than 10 years. His preparation for the workforce was top notch and his instructors actually knew how to teach. If colleges required even 2 years of industry experience before teaching, the landscape would change tremendously. But that won't happen, as those in power want to hire people just like themselves. Hiring people that actually know something practical is not an their agenda.
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I'd make Raspberry Pi a required course. Not because a Pi is going to be practically useful; rather because of all the low level skills working with one teaches. College students aren't taught command line and don't know enough to ask about it. The quality and experience of the instructors is the real problem. My sons graduated from a state university in recent years. One is ChemE, and in his large dept about 5% of the instructors had any industry experience; all others had started "teaching" right after graduation. The quality of instruction and preparation for industry was abysmal. The other son is PaperE, and in his small dept 100% of the instructors had industry experience, most more than 10 years. His preparation for the workforce was top notch and his instructors actually knew how to teach. If colleges required even 2 years of industry experience before teaching, the landscape would change tremendously. But that won't happen, as those in power want to hire people just like themselves. Hiring people that actually know something practical is not an their agenda.
BryanFazekas wrote:
in his large dept about 5% of the instructors had any industry experience; all others had started "teaching" right after graduation
Of all software developers I have met in my career, something like 3% have any work experience in the application domain they are writing software for. With Linux developers: a small fraction of a per cent.
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BryanFazekas wrote:
in his large dept about 5% of the instructors had any industry experience; all others had started "teaching" right after graduation
Of all software developers I have met in my career, something like 3% have any work experience in the application domain they are writing software for. With Linux developers: a small fraction of a per cent.
Member 7989122 wrote:
Of all software developers I have met in my career, something like 3% have any work experience in the application domain they are writing software for. With Linux developers: a small fraction of a per cent.
Interesting. 100% of the people I work with have at least 5 years experience in the technologies we work with, and this is current technology. Back in the 90's it was common to start a new job and learn new tech at the same time, but in the last 15 years my experience is ya gotta have experience to get in the door. Makes it tough for new grads to get started. Back to my original point: a large chunk of college instructors have 0% professional experience and as a result, teach the material but have no real understanding of how it applies in the real world. I accessed the staff page of a large university and randomly selected 5 staff members and checked their bios. Not one listed any professional experience -- lots of academic awards and activities, but no practical experience. This is a problem across all industries, not just comp sci.
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Member 7989122 wrote:
Of all software developers I have met in my career, something like 3% have any work experience in the application domain they are writing software for. With Linux developers: a small fraction of a per cent.
Interesting. 100% of the people I work with have at least 5 years experience in the technologies we work with, and this is current technology. Back in the 90's it was common to start a new job and learn new tech at the same time, but in the last 15 years my experience is ya gotta have experience to get in the door. Makes it tough for new grads to get started. Back to my original point: a large chunk of college instructors have 0% professional experience and as a result, teach the material but have no real understanding of how it applies in the real world. I accessed the staff page of a large university and randomly selected 5 staff members and checked their bios. Not one listed any professional experience -- lots of academic awards and activities, but no practical experience. This is a problem across all industries, not just comp sci.
BryanFazekas wrote:
00% of the people I work with have at least 5 years experience in the technologies we work with, and this is current technology
You probably think of different aspects than I do. I wasn't thinking of technology but tasks, established methods, work patterns and terminology, ... For how many years did you work as a librarian, in a real book library before you started working on that library software? For how long were you working in a sound studio with mixers and reverb boxes before digging into that digital sound studio? How may city planning projects did you see from intial conception to completion before you were employed to develop software for managing that kind of tasks? I am not talking about sitting in on a project for a couple months to learn how "they" are doing things, "their" tasks, terminology and concepts, but experiencing it as how we are doing things, our tasks, terminology and concept. You are not there to learn. You are in that sw development group to teach the other software developers what your needs are, because you work in that problem domain. I have worked with librarians having sufficient software training to understand what those sw developers are talking about. Same with sound studio people. And city planners. And professionals in a handful other domains. But they were not the software developers. They were fighting hard to get the developers to understand how librarians, sound studio people and city planners view the world, their tasks and problems. Not technologies but tasks and issues belonging to the profession, regardless of technology.
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Member 7989122 wrote:
Of all software developers I have met in my career, something like 3% have any work experience in the application domain they are writing software for. With Linux developers: a small fraction of a per cent.
Interesting. 100% of the people I work with have at least 5 years experience in the technologies we work with, and this is current technology. Back in the 90's it was common to start a new job and learn new tech at the same time, but in the last 15 years my experience is ya gotta have experience to get in the door. Makes it tough for new grads to get started. Back to my original point: a large chunk of college instructors have 0% professional experience and as a result, teach the material but have no real understanding of how it applies in the real world. I accessed the staff page of a large university and randomly selected 5 staff members and checked their bios. Not one listed any professional experience -- lots of academic awards and activities, but no practical experience. This is a problem across all industries, not just comp sci.
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BryanFazekas wrote:
00% of the people I work with have at least 5 years experience in the technologies we work with, and this is current technology
You probably think of different aspects than I do. I wasn't thinking of technology but tasks, established methods, work patterns and terminology, ... For how many years did you work as a librarian, in a real book library before you started working on that library software? For how long were you working in a sound studio with mixers and reverb boxes before digging into that digital sound studio? How may city planning projects did you see from intial conception to completion before you were employed to develop software for managing that kind of tasks? I am not talking about sitting in on a project for a couple months to learn how "they" are doing things, "their" tasks, terminology and concepts, but experiencing it as how we are doing things, our tasks, terminology and concept. You are not there to learn. You are in that sw development group to teach the other software developers what your needs are, because you work in that problem domain. I have worked with librarians having sufficient software training to understand what those sw developers are talking about. Same with sound studio people. And city planners. And professionals in a handful other domains. But they were not the software developers. They were fighting hard to get the developers to understand how librarians, sound studio people and city planners view the world, their tasks and problems. Not technologies but tasks and issues belonging to the profession, regardless of technology.
Your point is well taken. One project I was on was for a very narrow public sector division, and there was no one who would have experience. The customer had to train everyone they hired. We had a good analyst who faithfully documented what the customer needed, we implemented what was asked, and at final review, the project was canceled. The customer assigned a person who had been with the division less than 6 months to work with our analyst, and that person did not understand the business, so the requirements were wrong. The program did what it was designed to do, but it didn't do what was needed. However, in general, teams I've worked with had a good balance of subject matter experts, business & technical analysts, and programmers, so programmers not having years of experience in that domain was sufficiently addressed. I've had a lot more successful projects that not, so it's working. But this is not related to my point. If a college instructor has real world experience, in ANY domain, they understand many of the non-language facets of programming in a group. Things their fellows without real experience do not.
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BryanFazekas wrote:
Not one listed any professional experience -- lots of academic awards and activities, but no practical experience.
"Those who can, do; those who can't, teach" - Unknown
