How do you celebrate completions?
-
Hi, I skimmed over your "The Creation Of God" video, I don't have time to watch the whole thing today. I have a question about your chapter "Jupitor/Saturn 60 pattern" where you make the claim that modern measuring of angles, geographic coordinates and time (sexagesimal system) were derived from observations of Jupiter-Saturn conjunctions. Could you explain your reason for believing this? Also, do you have any sources to reference? There are some logical reasons for using sexagesimal, it's superior to our modern decimal system in many ways. Base 60 was chosen because they were tracking celestial spheres and Base 60 allows you to make those calculations with integers (whole numbers). Are you making the claim that you have discovered Babylonian/Mesopotamian numeral systems other than Base60 being used before 3200BC? Thanks, -David Delaune P.S. I don't have time today but will try to watch your video tonight. I have to leave in a few minutes but will be back in a few hours.
-
Hi, I skimmed over your "The Creation Of God" video, I don't have time to watch the whole thing today. I have a question about your chapter "Jupitor/Saturn 60 pattern" where you make the claim that modern measuring of angles, geographic coordinates and time (sexagesimal system) were derived from observations of Jupiter-Saturn conjunctions. Could you explain your reason for believing this? Also, do you have any sources to reference? There are some logical reasons for using sexagesimal, it's superior to our modern decimal system in many ways. Base 60 was chosen because they were tracking celestial spheres and Base 60 allows you to make those calculations with integers (whole numbers). Are you making the claim that you have discovered Babylonian/Mesopotamian numeral systems other than Base60 being used before 3200BC? Thanks, -David Delaune P.S. I don't have time today but will try to watch your video tonight. I have to leave in a few minutes but will be back in a few hours.
There are several items supporting the fact that the sexagesimal system originated from astronomic observations of Jupiter and Saturn. One of them is the fact that back then, their language was syllabic (sp?), where each syllable represented a distinct concept ([Sumerian Lexicon](https://www.sumerian.org/sumerlex.htm)). Their word for 'sixty' was geš. The word for Saturn was 'gena', which incorporated the same 'ge'. 'gena' also meant 'constant, regular', reflecting the regularity/constancy of the celestial pattern by its use in geš, as well as the regularity of Saturn's own orbit. The greatest clue that '60' was linked to the sky is that it was known as the number for Anu, their sky god. Also, they counted out '60' in three 'twenties,' mirroring Jupiter and Saturn's twenty/sixty year pattern. And according to an Assyriologist who studied it,
Quote:
…[In Sumeria] the unit of 60 has been incorporated in a system of numeration which was still in the process of formation, which had already the unit of 10, but had not yet, had never had the unit of 100. The new unit seems to have found its entrance into usage prior to the rise of the academic speculation, which intervened later, not in order to change the base, but in order to coordinate the system. - Henry Thureau-Dangin, Sketch of a History of the Sexagesimal System
So those who think it came into existence because of the handiness of the 5/12 base systems are very wrong, although it make a nice story. Here's a quote from my book giving more insight:
Quote:
The French Assyriologist and Sumerologist F. Thureau-Dangin wrote about clay tablets using this system discovered in layer IV of the Uruk ruins in ancient Sumeria, dating them from 3300 to 3100 BC. The Cuneiform Digital Library Initiative says the most prominent area in Uruk at that time was a precinct called the “House of Heaven.” In other words, the priests watching the sky were the active investigators of those times.
In short, they found this number by watching the sky, and its usefulness became apparent upon using it, not from intellectual thoughts. I'm certain they first started using it simply because their 'gods' revealed the number to them, so they had to use it if that makes sense. They did not take the worship of their gods lightly back then. I hope this answers your question.
-
There are several items supporting the fact that the sexagesimal system originated from astronomic observations of Jupiter and Saturn. One of them is the fact that back then, their language was syllabic (sp?), where each syllable represented a distinct concept ([Sumerian Lexicon](https://www.sumerian.org/sumerlex.htm)). Their word for 'sixty' was geš. The word for Saturn was 'gena', which incorporated the same 'ge'. 'gena' also meant 'constant, regular', reflecting the regularity/constancy of the celestial pattern by its use in geš, as well as the regularity of Saturn's own orbit. The greatest clue that '60' was linked to the sky is that it was known as the number for Anu, their sky god. Also, they counted out '60' in three 'twenties,' mirroring Jupiter and Saturn's twenty/sixty year pattern. And according to an Assyriologist who studied it,
Quote:
…[In Sumeria] the unit of 60 has been incorporated in a system of numeration which was still in the process of formation, which had already the unit of 10, but had not yet, had never had the unit of 100. The new unit seems to have found its entrance into usage prior to the rise of the academic speculation, which intervened later, not in order to change the base, but in order to coordinate the system. - Henry Thureau-Dangin, Sketch of a History of the Sexagesimal System
So those who think it came into existence because of the handiness of the 5/12 base systems are very wrong, although it make a nice story. Here's a quote from my book giving more insight:
Quote:
The French Assyriologist and Sumerologist F. Thureau-Dangin wrote about clay tablets using this system discovered in layer IV of the Uruk ruins in ancient Sumeria, dating them from 3300 to 3100 BC. The Cuneiform Digital Library Initiative says the most prominent area in Uruk at that time was a precinct called the “House of Heaven.” In other words, the priests watching the sky were the active investigators of those times.
In short, they found this number by watching the sky, and its usefulness became apparent upon using it, not from intellectual thoughts. I'm certain they first started using it simply because their 'gods' revealed the number to them, so they had to use it if that makes sense. They did not take the worship of their gods lightly back then. I hope this answers your question.
Ok, I probably know more about the subject than I'm letting on. You might be right, the Mayans used a base20 system which the historians claim is "all fingers and toes" but could also be attributed to the Jupiter-Saturn cycle. Daniel Mansfield and Norman Wildberger from UNSW Sydney has made a few breakthroughs in Babylonian mathematics. I highly recommend them. Old Babylonian mathematics and Plimpton 322: The remarkable OB sexagesimal system - YouTube[^] Old Babylonian mathematics and Plimpton 322: Geometry in ancient Mesopotamia and Egypt - YouTube[^] This one contains new discoveries of how they did trig: Old Babylonian mathematics and Plimpton 322: A new understanding of the OB tablet Plimpton 322 - YouTube[^]
-
Ok, I probably know more about the subject than I'm letting on. You might be right, the Mayans used a base20 system which the historians claim is "all fingers and toes" but could also be attributed to the Jupiter-Saturn cycle. Daniel Mansfield and Norman Wildberger from UNSW Sydney has made a few breakthroughs in Babylonian mathematics. I highly recommend them. Old Babylonian mathematics and Plimpton 322: The remarkable OB sexagesimal system - YouTube[^] Old Babylonian mathematics and Plimpton 322: Geometry in ancient Mesopotamia and Egypt - YouTube[^] This one contains new discoveries of how they did trig: Old Babylonian mathematics and Plimpton 322: A new understanding of the OB tablet Plimpton 322 - YouTube[^]
Randor wrote:
I probably know more about the subject than I'm letting on.
That does not surprise me at all. You are probably the greatest intellect I've ever interacted with, and your breadth of knowledge blows me away. I've wished many times I could master facts as well as you, but my tinge of dyslexia makes that impossible, although I can put them in a database!
Randor wrote:
You might be right
I have never seen anything that makes more sense of the facts than what I've just laid out. And when you see the six (of the 33) astronomic correlations that I've shared in the video, and my overview of the greater historic picture (none of which will surprise you, except for the Samson stuff), you might understand why I can't see anything that makes sense of more facts than what I've shown. If you want an overview of Samson scholarship, and have access, you can see the directions current scholarship has taken in Kelly Murphy's "Judges in Recent Reesearch". In it, I've never seen anything that directly mirrors the story. It is all psychobabble, although I may have overlooked something somewhere. Thank you for those video links! I had not bumped into them before, and am going to enjoy them for the next bit! Part of my 'celebrating completions!' :thumbsup:
Our Forgotten Astronomy | Object Oriented Programming with C++
-
I just finished a major step in a 27 year project and am looking for ideas. They have to be cheap, since I'm broke. But I'm very happy! :)
Our Forgotten Astronomy | Object Oriented Programming with C++
-
David O'Neil wrote:
I just finished a major step in a 27 year project
What are you working on, the Voyager probe???
I came across a book back around 1994 that opened up a bunch of history that has been forgotten. It was a bunch of work, and I was wrong for a long time, because the book was wrong. But it was a start.
Our Forgotten Astronomy | Object Oriented Programming with C++
-
I came across a book back around 1994 that opened up a bunch of history that has been forgotten. It was a bunch of work, and I was wrong for a long time, because the book was wrong. But it was a start.
Our Forgotten Astronomy | Object Oriented Programming with C++
-
David O'Neil wrote:
I was wrong for a long time, because the book was wrong.
...so, the Holy Bible? :laugh:
My work did end up shining a new light on the roots of the Bible, so in a way, yes. Read Randor's responses in one of the previous threads if you want to know more.
Our Forgotten Astronomy | Object Oriented Programming with C++
-
Ok, I probably know more about the subject than I'm letting on. You might be right, the Mayans used a base20 system which the historians claim is "all fingers and toes" but could also be attributed to the Jupiter-Saturn cycle. Daniel Mansfield and Norman Wildberger from UNSW Sydney has made a few breakthroughs in Babylonian mathematics. I highly recommend them. Old Babylonian mathematics and Plimpton 322: The remarkable OB sexagesimal system - YouTube[^] Old Babylonian mathematics and Plimpton 322: Geometry in ancient Mesopotamia and Egypt - YouTube[^] This one contains new discoveries of how they did trig: Old Babylonian mathematics and Plimpton 322: A new understanding of the OB tablet Plimpton 322 - YouTube[^]
PS - our early priests even linked Samson to '60,' which makes sense when the astronomy I've outlined is taken into account. The Babylonian Talmud contains,
Quote:
It has been taught: R. Simeon the Pious [about 100 AD] said: The width between Samson’s shoulders was sixty cubits, as it is said: And Samson lay till midnight, and arose at midnight and laid hold of the doors of the gate of the city, and the two posts, and plucked them up, bar and all, and put them upon his shoulders; and there is a tradition that the gates of Gaza were not less than sixty cubits [in width]…
This indicates the priests almost two-thousand years ago may have had a dim memory of the story's foundation. Wikipedia states,
Quote:
In the Talmudic period, some seem to have denied that Samson was a historical figure, regarding him instead as a purely mythological personage. This was viewed as heretical by the rabbis of the Talmud, and they attempted to refute this.
I have not gone down that rabbit hole. I was satisfied with figuring out the astronomy. Best wishes!
Our Forgotten Astronomy | Object Oriented Programming with C++
-
PS - our early priests even linked Samson to '60,' which makes sense when the astronomy I've outlined is taken into account. The Babylonian Talmud contains,
Quote:
It has been taught: R. Simeon the Pious [about 100 AD] said: The width between Samson’s shoulders was sixty cubits, as it is said: And Samson lay till midnight, and arose at midnight and laid hold of the doors of the gate of the city, and the two posts, and plucked them up, bar and all, and put them upon his shoulders; and there is a tradition that the gates of Gaza were not less than sixty cubits [in width]…
This indicates the priests almost two-thousand years ago may have had a dim memory of the story's foundation. Wikipedia states,
Quote:
In the Talmudic period, some seem to have denied that Samson was a historical figure, regarding him instead as a purely mythological personage. This was viewed as heretical by the rabbis of the Talmud, and they attempted to refute this.
I have not gone down that rabbit hole. I was satisfied with figuring out the astronomy. Best wishes!
Our Forgotten Astronomy | Object Oriented Programming with C++
-
I will have a sip of the port I got for my birthday tonight, celebrating the results of my effort. Coming from you, I take that as high praise. Those 27 years weren't wasted.
Our Forgotten Astronomy | Object Oriented Programming with C++